To all those who don't understand taxes

[guitarjosh]

George Bush spent like a democrat, there is no denying that. The problem is a true conservative has not been elected to office. Cutting spending is and never will be a policy that will get someone re-elected. The masses are too fuking stupid.

Which is why we should have a flat or consumption tax instead of graduated income. When the masses see a correlation between the taxes they pay and government spending, they'll be more likely to back spending cuts.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

Guitar josh, would people bother to own homesPay property taxes, higher water, seqer, electric bills, and overall expendatures over a apartment if there is no tax breaks? A flat tax would suggest no tax refunds. So no write offs correct? If you continued to to allow write offs americans would pay even less taxes. The avg americans pays 18% in taxes through the years and after refunds and write offs pays 2%. if you flat tax 10% theyd get even more back and the government would have less money borrowed to fund operations throughout the year.*

[flocko76]

The only trickle down economics that works is these millionaire athletes spending all their money on cars, and bling, and houses and other goods that create jobs for people. Their salaries are paid by billionaires that are the 1%. The more we pay athletes the more they will spend, the more will "trickle down" to the 99%.

[guitarjosh]

Guitar josh, would people bother to own homesPay property taxes, higher water, seqer, electric bills, and overall expendatures over a apartment if there is no tax breaks? A flat tax would suggest no tax refunds. So no write offs correct? If you continued to to allow write offs americans would pay even less taxes. The avg americans pays 18% in taxes through the years and after refunds and write offs pays 2%. if you flat tax 10% theyd get even more back and the government would have less money borrowed to fund operations throughout the year.*

I don't know what a flat rate would be, although the consumption rate usually mentioned in 23%. If people think that's too high they would be more likely to get behind spending cuts.

[ByeShea]

He was trying to say that the increase in education was Obama's fault. Truth is, the banks are just taking advantage of the increase in the number of student loans.

Obama's concept is very simple.

Make it easier for people to get a college degree.

College degree = higher income.

Higher income = better living.

Sounds good right? Problem is, the banks just take advantage of students by increasing interest rates on student loans. What's their excuse for doing that? Students that would normally be in a "High-risk" category will now be allowed to get these loans. High-risk = higher interest rates. But for some reason it applies to everyone. Get it? They just want more of your money.

So who's fault is that? Obama? Think not.

According to you, Obama being a wholly ineffective president is anybody's fault but Obama's.

This guy had two years of a Democratic House and Senate behind him and all he did was cram a health care bill that nobody wanted down the nation's throat.

And, shocker, it's not ending up to be nearly as he said it would, most laughably of all was how he said that providing health care for 30 million more Americans would cost us less, trim the deficit (deficit has gone from $10 trillion to $16 trillion under his watch by the way) and improve care. Typical liberal math. Make stupid ass promises and bank on the fact that the public can't do the math ...but just imagine where it would be had we not been blessed by the "green shoots" of the Summer of Recovery (2010), huh?

Jesus Christ, Obama is a fugging disaster. Had Obama not granted McDonald's a health care waiver (like no one would notice, does he think he's President of the United States of Chicago?) Ronald McDonald himself could manage a GOPer's campaign and win a landslide just by hammering the public with the facts. ... "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"

Obama is toast.

And I'm sure we'll be reading how it wasn't his fault when he gets bounced from the White House, too.

[Andy117]

Which is why we should have a flat or consumption tax instead of graduated income. When the masses see a correlation between the taxes they pay and government spending, they'll be more likely to back spending cuts.

A consumption tax would only pass if you exempted essential goods such as groceries and basic clothing.

[andywend]

sorry, the rich need to pay more taxes and quit thinking of it as punishment for being rich

TTwarrior is a perfect example of why our country needs to abandon the "one man/one vote" standard and return the country to what our founding forefathers originally intended. They NEVER had any intention of allowing the TTWarrior's to participate in the voting process.

At the end of the day, liberal democrats will continue to have very little and they will be whining and complaining about how unfair everything is until their last dying breath. On the flip side, conservative republicans will continue to enjoy higher quality health care and the finer things in life while looking down at all those screeching, whining liberal democratic bums and think "Thank God, my life didn't turn out like that".

[Balco10]

So why does Obama's buddy from GE get off scott free and pay not taxes???
PLus the bastard shipped many jobs over seas!

[rkelly110]

We already pay a consumption tax. Next time you pay your bills, stop and look at how
much taxes are added to the bill. We are taxed on everything. Some states even tax clothes.
Sales tax and fees are on everything. Hell, I pay $10 a month to my state in taxes on my
electricity. $4 a month on water. Cable, phone and internet taxes and franchise fees.

I honestly don't know how the states and govt can be in debt.

[antifoil]

It's hilarious how you people drink so much kool-aid. Were people fleeing the United States when Bill Clinton was in office (prior to the Bush tax cuts)? How was GDP growth in the 1992-2000 Clinton years when tax rates were at the levels that most people are proposing to return to in order to lower our ridiculous debt levels? Where do you expect these people to flee to? The Ukraine? The United States has one of the lowest tax rates amongst industrialized nations.

Keep sipping on Fox News propaganda. They know better than one of the richest men in America and the world. Right?

to be fair clinton got lucky on economic growth. he got the tech boom during his presidency.

avoiding full scale war helps not to drain the economy.

the economy has been doomed since reagan started racking up the debt. the problem started with reagan setting the precedent.

most people don't know this is all reagan's fault.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That's pretty much my point. The tax rates at the time did not stifle innovation nor investment nor job creation.

We're talking about returning to tax rates in the Clinton era. It's incredible how politicians and talking heads on the right have brainwashed their sheep into believing that it would be catastrophic to do such a thing.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Higher taxes MUST be on the table if we want to resolve our debt issues.

[Walter Abrams Jr]

Yes, you're correct. That is how our tax system operates.

Problem is, it doesn't fukkin work. It never has worked, nor will it ever work. It is a worthless trickle-down system.

Trickle-down economics does not stimulate our economy. Why? Because the top earners in this country do not use the money they save via tax breaks for that purpose. Instead, they line their pockets with it to make their own lives better.

The money does not trickle-down into society; it trickles-down into their investment portfolios.

That's why Obama was talking about change. It's time to flip the tables on those mother fukkers. Lower the tax rate for average income families so that they can save more money and have a better shot to get ahead in life. It will increase spending and production while lowering the unemployment rate.

But instead, the republicans fight to keep things the same. Why? Because they dont want you to get ahead. They dont want you to save money. They dont want you to have any more power than you already have. They like you just the way you are....barely getting by.

+1

[Brick]

Good post, about spot on

[dodger33]

Higher taxes MUST be on the table if we want to resolve our debt issues.

Massive spending cuts must happen first. Raising taxes will only justify raising spending. If you support raising taxes without cutting spending you should have your head examined. (not speaking to you specifically but in general)

[MonkeyF0cker]

Massive spending cuts must happen first. Raising taxes will only justify raising spending. If you support raising taxes without cutting spending you should have your head examined. (not speaking to you specifically but in general)

Can you name one person/politician who has suggested not cutting spending?

The only people being unreasonable are the people demanding no tax increases.

[antifoil]

tax rates were not going to have an impact on innovation because it was an entire new industry being formed. the tech boom was significantly larger than any tax rate could prevent. however, i have doubts taxes have any impact on some dude coming up with ideas.

higher taxes should happen during economy success but not during economic downturns.

[dodger33]

Can you name one person/politician who has suggested not cutting spending?
The only people being unreasonable are the people demanding no tax increases.

Yep, every single democrat in office. This is the same group that has not proposed a serious budget since Obama has been in office. I know plenty of Republicans that would vote for a tax increase if spending cuts were in place.

[SteveRyan]

+1

Thanks!

I've been saying stuff like that on the internet for years.

Believe me when I tell ya, if you are living paycheck to paycheck (Like so many of us are), you have absolutely NO BUSINESS WHAT SO EVER voting republican. They will NEVER do anything to make life better for you.

Why? Because they NEED YOU!!

They need you to buy their shit and keep their businesses alive. If you went out and made your own business, it would just take away from theirs!!

That's why they wanna keep ya right where you are....a consumer....consuming all their shit.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Yep, every single democrat in office. This is the same group that has not proposed a serious budget since Obama has been in office. I know plenty of Republicans that would vote for a tax increase if spending cuts were in place.

You're a little misinformed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703584804576144050996875790.html

Also...

The budget wouldn't do much, though, to arrest a future spike in the projected costs of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Mr. Obama has said he's open to making changes in these programs, but he wants cooperation from Republicans before he will begin.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703361904576143253522341850.html

[dodger33]

You're a little misinformed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703584804576144050996875790.html

I said serious budget. This didn't cut any spending. All his spending numbers are enormously inflated because of stimulus spending. His cuts don't even take the spending levels down to pre stimulus numbers.

[andywend]

Thanks! I've been saying stuff like that on the internet for years. Believe me when I tell ya, if you are living paycheck to paycheck (Like so many of us are), you have absolutely NO BUSINESS WHAT SO EVER voting republican. They will NEVER do anything to make life better for you. Why? Because they NEED YOU!! They need you to buy their shit and keep their businesses alive. If you went out and made your own business, it would just take away from theirs!! That's why they wanna keep ya right where you are....a consumer....consuming all their shit.

There are a lot of stupid liberal democrats in this forum, but the gold medal for stupidity has to go to SteveRyan.

They will NEVER do anything to make life better for you.

SteveRyan does NOT the possess the ability, intelligence or work ethic to ever succeed in life and all the government's help will NEVER change that. However, there are millions of Americans who can succeed WITHOUT sucking on the tit of the federal government and they know full well that their chance of success is greatly diminshed by the democratic party.

SteveRyan, ITS NO SURPRISE you're living paycheck to paycheck and as long as you keep blaming all of your shortcomings on the republicans instead of "the man in the mirror" you will continue to live paycheck to paycheck for the rest of your life.

I have no doubt your performance at your job is "piss poor" and you probably whine and complain that your boss is taking advantage of you and is NOT paying you as much as you think you deserve.

If you went out and made your own business, it would just take away from theirs!! That's why they wanna keep ya right where you are....a consumer....consuming all their shit.

Why don't you make your own business and become wealthy yourself? I suppose its the republicans stopping you, right?

WHAT A PUTZ!!!!

[dodger33]

Also...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...522341850.html

Oh also...

Obama told the nation last Wednesday that “improvements” in Medicare and hiking taxes on the wealthy would stabilize government spending and bring deficit spending to what can charitably be described as a dull roar. The Wall Street Journal does some fact checking on these claims and finds them entirely false. Even if the “rich” gets defined down to the top 10% of filers — whose average annual household income is $114,000 — the level of revenue from even a 100% tax would still not close the budget gap:

If we taxed the top 10%, who already pay 70% of the tax, at 100% it still would not cover Obama's budget! Raising taxes solves every problem right?

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/04/18/wsj-shows-taxing-the-rich-wont-cover-the-bill/

[MonkeyF0cker]

I said serious budget. This didn't cut any spending. All his spending numbers are enormously inflated because of stimulus spending. His cuts don't even take the spending levels down to pre stimulus numbers.

Right. Why not just go back to 1955 spending? It's that easy. LOL.

There's a little thing called inflation, champ.

This is projected spending... See the bump in the blue? That's the stimulus. See how it decreases and returns to the curve? Do you also see how the slope of the GDP curve is much steeper than the slope of the federal outlays curve? Those are called Obama's proposed budget cuts.



We do have enough money to build moon colonies and patrol/censor the entire Internet though. Small government with Republicans? Yeah, right.

[dodger33]

Everything from 2009 on is an estimate...how about an updated chart champ. Our debt is over 100% of the GDP, we can keep arguing semantics but the point i am trying to make is spending needs to be cut before we can dump more money into this siv of an economy.
I did not say i support going to the moon or internet censorship.

Looking at the bigger picture, defense spending is currently below its historical average of 5.2 percent of GDP, despite wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, entitlement spending has increased rapidly, from just 2.5 percent of GDP in 1965 to about 10 percent today.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/07/06/battle-of-the-charts-spending-is-the-problem-no-doubt-about-it/

When it comes down to it the entitlement programs etc the democrats support are a much bigger issue than the moon race etc.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Oh also...
If we taxed the top 10%, who already pay 70% of the tax, at 100% it still would not cover Obama's budget! Raising taxes solves every problem right?
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/04/1...over-the-bill/

So you're quoting conservative propaganda websites that quote a WSJ op-ed piece? LOL.

All credibility lost.

Of course, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security need to be reworked. Did you not see the quote in my post about Obama being willing to restructure them? Where is the Republican proposal? Nobody has a definitive answer. And how is blaming Obama for the state of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security even remotely fair?

[MonkeyF0cker]

Everything from 2009 on is an estimate...how about an updated chart champ. Our debt is over 100% of the GDP, we can keep arguing semantics but the point i am trying to make is spending needs to be cut before we can dump more money into this siv of an economy.
I did not say i support going to the moon or internet censorship.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/07/06/battle-of-the-charts-spending-is-the-problem-no-doubt-about-it/

When it comes down to it the entitlement programs etc the democrats support are a much bigger issue than the moon race etc.

How much longer would we be in Iraq and Afghanistan if not for Obama?

You can't just eliminate the entitlement programs. Do you understand how many retirees depend on those programs for substinence? LOL.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

unless you have rich parents, your chance of getting into harvard, yale, or princeton is less than 1 percent. if you wanna get up in wall street, investment banking, or politics, you need to go to one of those schools. these people rule the white house. rich stay rich for a reason, the system is rigged from the get go. disappearance of middle class is inevitable, especially with idiots like op siding with the elites. dumb fucker!!!!!!

[andywend]

[COLOR=#000000 !important]

unless you have rich parents, your chance of getting into harvard, yale, or princeton is less than 1 percent. if you wanna get up in wall street, investment banking, or politics, you need to go to one of those schools. these people rule the white house. rich stay rich for a reason, the system is rigged from the get go. disappearance of middle class is inevitable, especially with idiots like op siding with the elites. dumb fucker!!!!!!

Obama's father was an exchange student from Kenya and Obama's mother walked the streets in Hawaii and was certainly far from an ideal woman or parent.[/COLOR]

Yet Obama worked hard and won the most powerful job on the planet.

Ghenghis Kahn, it is obvious you rank towards the bottom when it comes to earned income and I have no doubt thats EXACTLY WHERE YOU'LL STAY and you'll blame anyone you possibly can for all of your shortcomings instead of "the man in the mirror".

MonkeyFocker, didn't you say in earlier posts that you make the majority of your money gambling (playing poker, etc)? I have the feeling you pay very little by way of income tax and that probably has a lot to do with your political beliefs.

99% of the time, the amount of income tax paid coincides with where people stand politically.
Pay very little to no income tax = liberal democrat
Pay lots of income tax = conservative republican

There is a good reason why Obama and the democratic party hammer home class warfare time and time again as the top 10% of the country pays well over 50% of the taxes and liberal democrats are whining and screeching that the tax code isn't progressive enough.

Liberal democrats love to say that taxes during the Clinton era were only 3-4% higher than they are today on the wealthy and they are actually stupid enough to believe that raising taxes back to Clinton levels on the rich will solve all of our country's financial problems.

The democrats have only a 20% chance to maintain control of the senate and 30% to take back the house and as long as those figures hold, then Obama won't be able to do any more damage in 2013 and 2014.

[john230]

[COLOR=#000000 !important]Obama's father was an exchange student from Kenya and Obama's mother walked the streets in Hawaii and was certainly far from an ideal woman or parent.[/color]

Yet Obama worked hard and won the most powerful job on the planet.

Ghenghis Kahn, it is obvious you rank towards the bottom when it comes to earned income and I have no doubt thats EXACTLY WHERE YOU'LL STAY and you'll blame anyone you possibly can for all of your shortcomings instead of "the man in the mirror".

MonkeyFocker, didn't you say in earlier posts that you make the majority of your money gambling (playing poker, etc)? I have the feeling you pay very little by way of income tax and that probably has a lot to do with your political beliefs.

99% of the time, the amount of income tax paid coincides with where people stand politically.
Pay very little to no income tax = liberal democrat
Pay lots of income tax = conservative republican

There is a good reason why Obama and the democratic party hammer home class warfare time and time again as the top 10% of the country pays well over 50% of the taxes and liberal democrats are whining and screeching that the tax code isn't progressive enough.

Liberal democrats love to say that taxes during the Clinton era were only 3-4% higher than they are today on the wealthy and they are actually stupid enough to believe that raising taxes back to Clinton levels on the rich will solve all of our country's financial problems.

The democrats have only a 20% chance to maintain control of the senate and 30% to take back the house and as long as those figures hold, then Obama won't be able to do any more damage in 2013 and 2014.

Some good points. But you can not deny that the Republicans also play class warfare and the race card. Think the Southern straegey that they implemented so effectively. Think the Willie Horton add. The knife cuts both ways- that's the reality.

[TheMoneyShot]

I personally don't believe the rich should be taxed more... HOWEVER... how else is the US Government suppose to keep this country alive? The poor seem to be... more poor than ever before.

[dodger33]

I personally don't believe the rich should be taxed more... HOWEVER... how else is the US Government suppose to keep this country alive? The poor seem to be... more poor than ever before.

"When the government removes the discipline of failure, the discipline of failure is almost always assured." Put people on entitlement programs (food stamps, welfare, etc) they will come to expect it and even believe they deserve it. This country's problem is that the majority of the younger generation feel like they are owed something. This whole occupy movement is a perfect example.

[andywend]

I personally don't believe the rich should be taxed more... HOWEVER... how else is the US Government suppose to keep this country alive? The poor seem to be... more poor than ever before.

Just about every major country around the world is suffering from the exact same problem in that their respective governments spend far more than they take in via tax revenue.

Raising taxes on the rich can't possibly do the trick as there aren't enough of them to go around to make a major difference and the rich are far more likely to make adjustments to the increased tax burden levied upon them that will have a negative overall effect on the U.S.

The middle class aren't paying anywhere near enough in taxes and the poor are demanding more and more government services that they simply are NOT entitled to.

The truth of the matter is the republicans would give in on taxes if the democrats were willing to face the reality that medicare is completely unsustainable in its current form.

We're $15 TRILLION in debt ($60-$70 TRILLION when medicare and other factors are thrown into the equation) and raising taxes on the rich won't even solve 10% of our debt problem. At this point, its throwing good money after bad.

There are millions of healthy adults living in this country that have never worked a day in their lives and have no plans to. The only thing they know is welfare.

If we don't pull the plug on entitlement programs, our country will bankrupt itself. If we do, then there will be rioting in every major city in America.

We have passed the point of no return as a nation and at some point, the plug will be pulled on the dollar being the world's reserve currency. When that happens, things will go downhill quickly

."When the government removes the discipline of failure, the discipline of failure is almost always assured." Put people on entitlement programs (food stamps, welfare, etc) they will come to expect it and even believe they deserve it. This country's problem is that the majority of the younger generation feel like they are owed something. This whole occupy movement is a perfect example.

Well stated.<!-- / message -->

[wtf]

I personally don't believe the rich should be taxed more... HOWEVER... how else is the US Government suppose to keep this country alive? The poor seem to be... more poor than ever before.

in my opinion - well actually the opinion of a lot smart folks they believe the ONLY way is to get the fukin government off of businesses backs, and stop with all of these ridiculous rules and allow the manufacturing base to energize

the unions and all this other nonsense about salary is not the issue, they pay much higher salaries in germany and japan, they have huge manufacturing base

[john230]

in my opinion - well actually the opinion of a lot smart folks they believe the ONLY way is to get the fukin government off of businesses backs, and stop with all of these ridiculous rules and allow the manufacturing base to energize

the unions and all this other nonsense about salary is not the issue, they pay much higher salaries in germany and japan, they have huge manufacturing base

But how you do compete with the lower wages overseas, like Mexico and China? I wonder if Japan and Germany have shipped a lot of their jobs to foreign countries like the US has.