What's the Average Yearly Income of a Sharp Pro Sports Gambler?

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  • willyback
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 11-15-07
    • 674

    #1
    What's the Average Yearly Income of a Sharp Pro Sports Gambler?
  • buztah
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 03-23-07
    • 7470

    #2
    I think most degenerates here would kill to break even. As far as professionals go, let's hear from JJ, LT and MJF.
    Comment
    • willyback
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 11-15-07
      • 674

      #3
      Post UIGEA - What's the Average Yearly Profit of a Pro Sportsbook?

      Comment
      • 20Four7
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 04-08-07
        • 6703

        #4
        I know of several on this forum that make between 60K and 100K a year. I'll leave it to them to make themselves known if they wish. That is a completely realistic income to hit.
        Comment
        • Shark79
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 11-19-07
          • 11211

          #5
          Originally posted by 20Four7
          I know of several on this forum that make between 60K and 100K a year. I'll leave it to them to make themselves known if they wish. That is a completely realistic income to hit.
          Wow .. I would've never thought that would be possible ... that is amazing!
          Comment
          • Deuce
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 01-12-08
            • 29843

            #6
            JJGold makes 6 figures.
            Comment
            • donjuan
              SBR MVP
              • 08-29-07
              • 3993

              #7
              Wow .. I would've never thought that would be possible ... that is amazing!
              How is that amazing? You can make almost that much a year from just arbing and bonus whoring.
              Comment
              • Shark79
                SBR Posting Legend
                • 11-19-07
                • 11211

                #8
                Originally posted by donjuan
                How is that amazing? You can make almost that much a year from just arbing and bonus whoring.
                Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.

                Unfortunately I am not into arbing or bonus whoring ... therefore I could careless bout it.
                Comment
                • donjuan
                  SBR MVP
                  • 08-29-07
                  • 3993

                  #9
                  Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.

                  Unfortunately I am not into arbing or bonus whoring ... therefore I could careless bout it.
                  Great way to grow a smallish bankroll.
                  Comment
                  • Shark79
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 11-19-07
                    • 11211

                    #10
                    I started small ... now my account is pretty decent (at least for me) ... I have Cashed Out ... but leave enuff to keep increasing the balance
                    Comment
                    • durito
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 07-03-06
                      • 13173

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Shark79
                      Amazing to me it is (I dont wager big amounts) ... I would've never thought it possible for someone to have that type of earnings in a year just by gambling on sports.
                      $ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.
                      Comment
                      • Salcas
                        SBR MVP
                        • 01-24-08
                        • 1211

                        #12
                        I would kill to break even
                        Comment
                        • TLD
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 12-10-05
                          • 671

                          #13
                          Kind of like asking “How much does the average successful businessman make?” Way too vague. Basically unanswerable.

                          As far as the 60K to 100K figure, I would say up until the hugely impactful events starting a little over a year ago (UIGEA, Neteller, Pinnacle dropping its U.S. customers, and on and on), for a person who had average to above average skill as a middler/scalper/bonus hunter, and worked it like a full time job—say, averaging forty hours or so per week all year—that range is probably about right, or even a little low.

                          If the person was handicapping successfully and could actually make money on the merit of his picks rather than just doing the arbing and bonuses and such, then add in more for that.

                          If the person also had a way of bearding and getting into books he had previously been booted from, getting sign-up bonuses multiple times, circumventing wager maximums, etc., then not only would he have made more, he would have made many times more. (Here I’m talking about either blatantly fraudulent things like creating entirely fictitious identities, or things that some people would regard as fraudulent and some wouldn’t, like teaming up with multiple real people who let you use their identities and more or less control their accounts for maybe a cut of the profits.) Full time work of this kind was certainly in the six figures, and probably way into the six figures.

                          Then the question is how much has the ugliness of the last year or so affected that? I’d really be guessing here, but if you put a gun to my head and made me give a figure, I’ll say for the identical skill level, identical effort, identical hours, etc., a person today would make 40% of the income levels I estimated above. Maybe it’s really 20%, maybe it’s really 70%; I just know a lot of stuff has happened to make it much harder to make money.

                          I think most people who were doing this successfully have either gotten out of it and moved on to other things, or they’ve had to get a lot more skilled at it, or they’re working much harder and longer, or they’ve had to loosen up about how far they’ll go with the “gray area” stuff of having multiple accounts and such, or they’re just settling for a significantly reduced income.

                          Caveat: The evidence I have only allows educated guesses. In no way are any of the above estimates to be taken as any more than that. Other more knowledgeable posters, if they choose, could give you more accurate estimates.
                          Comment
                          • Shark79
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 11-19-07
                            • 11211

                            #14
                            Originally posted by durito
                            $ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.
                            I thought about that ... so .. how would one get to 100,000 a year? they had to start with a 10-20 0000 bankroll? For it to be considered a good year??
                            Comment
                            • Red_Sux
                              SBR MVP
                              • 06-25-07
                              • 1262

                              #15
                              Originally posted by durito
                              $ is fairly meaningless. If your bankroll is $5,000,000 and you make $60,000 a year, you aren't doing so well.
                              so what is a good year durito? 15% profit? that beat the stock market.
                              Comment
                              • suzysuzy
                                SBR High Roller
                                • 04-05-07
                                • 181

                                #16
                                my average is around negative 115k
                                Comment
                                • katstale
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 02-07-07
                                  • 3924

                                  #17
                                  lolol But if you started with 5 Mil Suzy--you didn't do too bad.
                                  Comment
                                  • Shark79
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 11-19-07
                                    • 11211

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by katstale
                                    lolol But if you started with 5 Mil Suzy--you didn't do too bad.
                                    or $10 ...
                                    Comment
                                    • suzysuzy
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 04-05-07
                                      • 181

                                      #19
                                      the sad thing is that im not joking.
                                      Comment
                                      • bigboydan
                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                        • 08-10-05
                                        • 55420

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by suzysuzy
                                        my average is around negative 115k
                                        What would that figure be if you included poker in this equation Suzy?
                                        Comment
                                        • durito
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 07-03-06
                                          • 13173

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Red_Sux
                                          so what is a good year durito? 15% profit? that beat the stock market.
                                          That depends on the person, their betting preferences, etc.

                                          I know what I would like to make on my money, and what level of risk is acceptable to me, but that's not the same for everyone.

                                          Originally posted by Shark79
                                          I thought about that ... so .. how would one get to 100,000 a year? they had to start with a 10-20 0000 bankroll? For it to be considered a good year??
                                          Assuming one does actually have an edge, growing a small bankroll into a big one does not take that long.

                                          A 1/2 kelly bettor, betting at -110 odds and with a win % of 55% and a $10,000 starting bankroll will have an expected bankroll of $156,967 and a median bankroll of $79,080 after 2,000 bets.

                                          Use Ganch's kelly calculator http://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Tool...alculator.aspx

                                          if you want to change the #'s around.
                                          Comment
                                          • durito
                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                            • 07-03-06
                                            • 13173

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by suzysuzy
                                            the sad thing is that im not joking.
                                            why not drop the sportsbetting entirely and just do poker
                                            Comment
                                            • Red_Sux
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 06-25-07
                                              • 1262

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by suzysuzy
                                              the sad thing is that im not joking.
                                              i lost more than you in sportsbetting. not joking either.
                                              Comment
                                              • suzysuzy
                                                SBR High Roller
                                                • 04-05-07
                                                • 181

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by bigboydan
                                                What would that figure be if you included poker in this equation Suzy?
                                                eh not gonna give a number, ive been bragging about my poker winnings too much here lately.
                                                Comment
                                                • Shark79
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 11-19-07
                                                  • 11211

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by durito

                                                  Assuming one does actually have an edge, growing a small bankroll into a big one does not take that long.

                                                  A 1/2 kelly bettor, betting at -110 odds and with a win % of 55% and a $10,000 starting bankroll will have an expected bankroll of $156,967 and a median bankroll of $79,080 after 2,000 bets.

                                                  Use Ganch;s kelly calculator http://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Tool...alculator.aspx

                                                  if you want to change the #'s around.
                                                  I have yet to learn on how to use the Kelly Calculator ... but it seems all the real pros use this method ... will study it a bit and see how it goes ... thanks.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • suzysuzy
                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                    • 04-05-07
                                                    • 181

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by durito
                                                    why not drop the sportsbetting entirely and just do poker

                                                    cuz im due to win in sports of course! things will turn around for me eventually! im not a quitter!
                                                    Comment
                                                    • katstale
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 02-07-07
                                                      • 3924

                                                      #27
                                                      Suzy, didn't you mention earlier you are an "action junkie"?

                                                      If that is true, I can offer little advice. If you just like to "be in the game" you could turn it around--course you have to stear clear of Lenny!!! lol
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Willie Bee
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 02-14-06
                                                        • 15726

                                                        #28
                                                        My income last year from gambling was a negative-$780. Oh, Im sorry, you said sharp. Never mind, carry on.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • bigboydan
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 08-10-05
                                                          • 55420

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by suzysuzy
                                                          eh not gonna give a number, ive been bragging about my poker winnings too much here lately.
                                                          Understood and can/will respect your answer based on what you have posted previously on this subject.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • 69882000
                                                            Restricted User
                                                            • 03-05-08
                                                            • 935

                                                            #30
                                                            It's kinda like Ari Gold in "Entourage".

                                                            "Expectations beat em by a dollar and life is great.
                                                            Under by a dollar and put a gun to your head and make sure I'm standing behind you" I would like to break even and escape with good memories of those games I won or those games I coulda won but didn't.

                                                            As for money I have a day job that let's me surf the internet and chat with people all day until I go home and the boss has no problem with it because he is never here.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Shark79
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 11-19-07
                                                              • 11211

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by 69882000
                                                              It's kinda like Ari Gold in "Entourage".

                                                              "Expectations beat em by a dollar and life is great.
                                                              Under by a dollar and put a gun to your head and make sure I'm standing behind you" I would like to break even and escape with good memories of those games I won or those games I coulda won but didn't.

                                                              As for money I have a day job that let's me surf the internet and chat with people all day until I go home and the boss has no problem with it because he is never here.
                                                              Thats why he doesnt have a problem with it ...
                                                              Comment
                                                              • moonbeam
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 03-02-07
                                                                • 1496

                                                                #32
                                                                what is a "sharp" player?

                                                                What does he/she do?
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Shark79
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 11-19-07
                                                                  • 11211

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by moonbeam
                                                                  what is a "sharp" player?

                                                                  What does he/she do?
                                                                  Intelligent wagers
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • willyback
                                                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                                                    • 11-15-07
                                                                    • 674

                                                                    #34
                                                                    i'm puzzled. I thought this forum was loaded with professional gamblers raping sportsbooks for six figures (or better) each year. I don't understand the mathematical probability aspects of handicapping very well (kelly, scalp, etc.). My strategy is basically to make winning picks based on extensively researched knowledge of the sport. I thought that's what everybody did?
                                                                    Comment
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