Big ben or Drew Brees

[poker_dummy101]

jackass

dont read threads much and think you knowitall? what a fukkin moron

[poker_dummy101]

Brees cannot win big games because

he turns the ball over in big games

[Lockitup1x]

Brees

[Smoke]

BIG BEN = 2 SUPER BOWL RINGS

DREW BREES = 0 SUPER BOWL RINGS

The answer is obvious

[Chi_archie]

Are you kidding me? this thread is a joke...

obviously Brees...

The steelers defense, running game has carried them over the years...and the refs have helped him too.

Steeler's running game has sucked for awhile....

[clover12346]

ok

[Dark Horse]

I was so impressed by Brees throwing a TD pass on his team's final possession to win a Superbowl.

In the regular season Brees is more flashy.
In the playoffs Ben is more gritty.

In the playoffs it's all about grit.

[KKoz9]

Big Ben all day.

Brees is in his 9th year and has won what? One playoff game. He is a stat boy...the Case Keenum of the NFL.

[bapelsin]

Big Ben all day.

Brees is in his 9th year and has won what? One playoff game. He is a stat boy...the Case Keenum of the NFL.

Yes stats don't help your team win at all. I mean how is it helpful to throw for 35 TD's and about 4,500 yards in a season, thats just "flashy". take Brady in '07 for example, it's not like the Patriots won a lot of games when he had a great statistical season, oh wait...The fact that good teams will have players putting up good numbers must be a coincidence.

For those saying that the saints pass a lot more than the steelers, that might just be because Brees is such a good QB that they can rely on passing to win games, just like the colts rely on Manning and the Pats on Brady. While the steelers have to rely more on defense and running, which are the parts of that team that are the strongest, not the QB.

As others have mentioned football is a team sport and it doesn't matter how great your QB is if you don't have a good enough team around you to succeed. Who has won more super bowls really isn't that important since teams win super bowls not QB's on their own.

[ipickwinners]

Yes stats don't help your team win at all. I mean how is it helpful to throw for 35 TD's and about 4,500 yards in a season, thats just "flashy". take Brady in '07 for example, it's not like the Patriots won a lot of games when he had a great statistical season, oh wait...The fact that good teams will have players putting up good numbers must be a coincidence.

For those saying that the saints pass a lot more than the steelers, that might just be because Brees is such a good QB that they can rely on passing to win games, just like the colts rely on Manning and the Pats on Brady. While the steelers have to rely more on defense and running, which are the parts of that team that are the strongest, not the QB.

As others have mentioned football is a team sport and it doesn't matter how great your QB is if you don't have a good enough team around you to succeed. Who has won more super bowls really isn't that important since teams win super bowls not QB's on their own.

your theory makes no sense, if not having a great QB doesnt matter, why hasnt the steelers won 10 superbowls? they have had great defense and great running for the past 10 years....you are a complete idiot

[Bruno87]

big ben for sure!

[bapelsin]

your theory makes no sense, if not having a great QB doesnt matter, why hasnt the steelers won 10 superbowls? they have had great defense and great running for the past 10 years....you are a complete idiot

I've never said that the QB doesn't matter. The QB is of course one of the most important players on offense. What i've been trying to say is that there is more to a team than the QB, which is why you can't give Ben all the credit for the steelers winning 2 super bowls and consequently you can't say that if Brees is such a great QB he should have won a super bowl. You and a lot of others in this thread are essentially saying that the other parts of a team besides the QB doesn't matter much, while i'm saying that there's only so much a QB can do if the rest of the team isn't that great.

The reason that the steelers haven't won 10 is because it takes an extremely dominant team to win that many, which the steelers haven't consistently been. Also because they haven't had as good of an offense as their defense. Roethlisberger obviously contributes to them being a winning team, but hes not carrying the team on his shoulders on a weekly basis, because he doesn't have to.

If you agree with me that the performance of the entire team determines whether you win or lose, then why should you evaluate how good a QB is solely on winning games, when teams win games not a player by himself?

A good way to quantify how much a QB contributes to his team is to look at his stats, though i'm not saying it's the be all end all. Looking at stats of an individual players says more about that players performance than looking at the team stats does.

You calling me an idiot is a great way to argue your point by the way. It really makes you seem like an intelligent and articulate person.

[Chi_archie]

stats can be twisted to say alot of things.... while we've gone over and over the fact that Roethlisberger's career QB rating is identical to Brees. if you watch alot of games, or at least watch alot of a particular player... you get a handle on different qualities and intangibles and things a QB that doesn't show up in stats. It seems as though many of those arguing for Steeler fans are the loudest backing Big Ben.

and while that most likely points to some homerism. I think it also is because they watch him every week, so more is ingrained in their memory that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. for instance as it has been mentioned. Ben had a horrible first super bowl, but Steeler fans remember the 3 road playoff games he led his team to victory on the road.

Steelers fans also remember that they for sure wouldn't even have been in that super bowl, if Ben doesn't make a TD and game saving tackle after Bettis's fumble.

Steeler fans could prob tell you all the ailments and injuries that Ben has played through that most qb's would sit out for. I know many call him the toughest and most courageous QB. and I know some of the things he played through but not all of what he played through in 2004 after his motorcycle accident.

I think you give the edge to brees on overall stats. But you acknowledge they play for different systems with different offensive mindsets. they have different weapons. But you give the edge to Roethlisberger on intangibles, clutch play, and that winning "it" factor.

so the type of QB you value depends more on what you look for in a qb. the fantasy era has made many fall in love with stats, without realizing that it doesn't matter if you win with your QB going 39/51 for 450 yards in a dome to win 49-36 or if you win with your Qb going 14/19 for 211 yards in baltimore in january. a win is a win the afc north and nfc south just have different styles

[ipickwinners]

I've never said that the QB doesn't matter. The QB is of course one of the most important players on offense. What i've been trying to say is that there is more to a team than the QB, which is why you can't give Ben all the credit for the steelers winning 2 super bowls and consequently you can't say that if Brees is such a great QB he should have won a super bowl. You and a lot of others in this thread are essentially saying that the other parts of a team besides the QB doesn't matter much, while i'm saying that there's only so much a QB can do if the rest of the team isn't that great.

The reason that the steelers haven't won 10 is because it takes an extremely dominant team to win that many, which the steelers haven't consistently been. Also because they haven't had as good of an offense as their defense. Roethlisberger obviously contributes to them being a winning team, but hes not carrying the team on his shoulders on a weekly basis, because he doesn't have to.

If you agree with me that the performance of the entire team determines whether you win or lose, then why should you evaluate how good a QB is solely on winning games, when teams win games not a player by himself?

A good way to quantify how much a QB contributes to his team is to look at his stats, though i'm not saying it's the be all end all. Looking at stats of an individual players says more about that players performance than looking at the team stats does.

You calling me an idiot is a great way to argue your point by the way. It really makes you seem like an intelligent and articulate person.

big bens 1st superbowl win with the steelers he carried them on his shoulders to take them to the superbowl as a wild card team and won 3 games in a row on the road. here are his stats, stats that you are looking for, you will be suprised. now i know he did not win them the 1st superbowl, in fact he had one of the worst QB performance in superbowl history, i am not debating that fact whatsoever. but id like you to try and debate the fact of the stats that he put together in the 3 road games he won the steelers to take them to the superbowl as a wild card team

in the 3 playoff games that the steelers played to get to the superbowl in 2005 here are big bens numbers .....49 out of 72 = 68%...680 yards....226 yards per game....7 TDS 1 INT....

[extra243]

This guy say it all....under 2 min...down a score...90 yards drive.......win the superbowl.

Brees...win a superbowl then we compare!

[riggs]

Big Ben is one of the best big game QB's I've seen in the last 20 years!

Drew Brees is one of best pocket passers I've seen in the last 20 years!

Pick your poison...

[Chi_archie]

good post riggs


its almost kinda apples and oranges, despite them being the same position

[RaisyDaisy]

Jake Delhomme - greatest at throwing INT's

[KKoz9]

Yes stats don't help your team win at all. I mean how is it helpful to throw for 35 TD's and about 4,500 yards in a season, thats just "flashy". take Brady in '07 for example, it's not like the Patriots won a lot of games when he had a great statistical season, oh wait...The fact that good teams will have players putting up good numbers must be a coincidence.

For those saying that the saints pass a lot more than the steelers, that might just be because Brees is such a good QB that they can rely on passing to win games, just like the colts rely on Manning and the Pats on Brady. While the steelers have to rely more on defense and running, which are the parts of that team that are the strongest, not the QB.

As others have mentioned football is a team sport and it doesn't matter how great your QB is if you don't have a good enough team around you to succeed. Who has won more super bowls really isn't that important since teams win super bowls not QB's on their own.

Okay, you're right he won the 'Super Bowl of stats' yardage wise and TDs ONE YEAR (again, like Case Keenum) if that's all you care about. But...one playoff win in NINE YEARS.

He's in the same category as Romo until he wins something (but Romo has only played 3 years and has the 2nd or 3rd best passer rating EVER). Who knows, Brees could prove himself this year?

[Scorpion]

Brees just fumbled the ball inside the Saints 10 yard line
Easy 7 points for Atlanta

Brees = Tony Homo