If ur having a bad day....

[Triple_D_Bet]

Look TripleD, I already said I agree that we are oppreasive in the middle east amd that we should back off. But that doesnt make terrorism ok, and as far as the pic, you are nuts, guy. I cant believe you are arguing that point. I asked several people what that pic implied, and guess what all of them said? Terrorism. And these are not unintelligent folks. One is as liberal as they come.

I heard you grease, it seems like the sole point we're debating. I'm not claiming terrorism is OK...but it's crazy to think we're arguing about terrorism when our country's revolution involved acts that would be labeled as terrorism today. A survey of several people you know (and who are not unlikely to think similarly) isn't particularly scientific. I don't doubt that a majority of people in the US would interpret such an image as terrorist simply due to the dress; however, as I've shown above, they'd be doing so with unreasonable assumptions (that everyone who dressed like that is a terrorist)....a majority can be wrong, and frequently is.

Another thing to consider which I brought up previously: that image's intended audience is unlikely to be Americans, but rather to be folks in the middle east. Propaganda isn't supposed to appeal to both sides of the conflict. In this particular case though, it's hard to call it propaganda, as the wording and the sentiment are ones that Americans (the self-declared enemy of the intended audience) are supposed to value (defense against tyranny and injustice).

Any chance we can agree that us terrorizing the middle east is bad, individuals killing innocent people is bad, and the best way to get people to stop killing us is to stop killing them and leave them alone?

[Triple_D_Bet]

I could break you down plenty of places and show where you logic is wrong but wth... are you drunk?

You just said here is a picture with obscured faces then posted a picture WITHOUT obscured faces. I'm probably being harsh, maybe you selected copypasted the wrong link?


lol


either way, you can try to find a pic- you won't- and you logic about paco's pic is 100% wrong. Plus you look like a moron digging this hole of illogical nonsense of yours so please, keep up! The avatar means 1 thing and 1 thing only, you can use your liberal logic all you want and I'll crush it just like last time.

No faces obscured? Take a look at the picture again, or brush up on the definition...

Your reply is full of insults, but pretty short on any "logic-crushing" (unless you're claiming "Nuh-uh, you're wrong and dumb" as "crushing"). It's spelled "liberty" by the way, not "liberal". How convenient that you could prove me wrong but just don't feel like it...if you can work up the willpower and feel like trying, I'll be waiting

[Ra77er]

Lets say I lived in Uzbekistan. Some guys wearing rebel flags kill thousands of innocent people in my country. I am pissed and I want some justice so I join the service to fight back...maybe its a religious cause. Everytime I see that flag it will cause pain for the rest of my life, especially when it's the ones that live in Uzbekistan with me.

They want to support the rebel flag but they have gotten used to our countries public school systems, waterparks, baseball games, IHOPS, hot chicks etc that they just take advantage of everything and still feel that it is okay to be a rebel and support those guys in America even if they are the ones that killed our own people.

I am sympathetic to both sides....I do not want to see innocent people killed anywhere. The reality is though that people are bad, doesn't matter what religion or race or gender.

I have no doubt Paco is probably a good guy that is a devout Muslim which I have no problem with, the part that is hard is that he wants to represent himself that way living in America? He is from Detroit right? I think if he maturely respected the country he lived in he wouldn't choose to represent himself that way publicly.

Now for the conspiracy theorist if 9/11 was all some big hoax to target muslims, then you cannot be angry with military folks or regular citizens like myself that are only doing what our country asked of us/or told us. You should want death the U.S Government, not to innocent people.

[Ra77er]

Bascially trip you are smart guy and you understand both sides but having to see it happen live is not easy, you cannot find that in a book and to just be compassionate/sympathetic and assume the best in everyone that dresses like what's in Pacs avatar is naive imho.

And yes I was being sarcastic about the "ammenities" in uzbekistan

[boeing power]

Is that bigday?

[Triple_D_Bet]

Lets say I lived in Uzbekistan. Some guys wearing rebel flags kill thousands of innocent people in my country. I am pissed and I want some justice so I join the service to fight back...maybe its a religious cause. Everytime I see that flag it will cause pain for the rest of my life, especially when it's the ones that live in Uzbekistan with me.

They want to support the rebel flag but they have gotten used to our countries public school systems, waterparks, baseball games, IHOPS, hot chicks etc that they just take advantage of everything and still feel that it is okay to be a rebel and support those guys in America even if they are the ones that killed our own people.

I am sympathetic to both sides....I do not want to see innocent people killed anywhere. The reality is though that people are bad, doesn't matter what religion or race or gender.

I have no doubt Paco is probably a good guy that is a devout Muslim which I have no problem with, the part that is hard is that he wants to represent himself that way living in America? He is from Detroit right? I think if he maturely respected the country he lived in he wouldn't choose to represent himself that way publicly.

Now for the conspiracy theorist if 9/11 was all some big hoax to target muslims, then you cannot be angry with military folks or regular citizens like myself that are only doing what our country asked of us/or told us. You should want death the U.S Government, not to innocent people.

I get that imagery is something people form emotional attachments to; what I'm saying is those emotional attachments (in this case, that cultural dress and/or a major religion equals terrorist) are wrong, and rational people should do their best to overcome them....we as a country certainly shouldn't be terrorizing innocents because of these fallacies.

Expressing the desire for people to fight for self-determination and justice is about as American a value as there is; expressing it seems pretty patriotic to me, and doubly so when one of the perpetrators of injustice is America.

I'm not asking anyone to assume the best in everyone, nor downplaying anyone's emotions. I'm simply asking for American people to stop letting these false assumptions guide them into supporting the systematic killing of innocent foreigners, as we are currently doing. I can sympathize with the emotions while simultaneously not accepting it as an excuse for murder.

[gauchojake]

[Ra77er]

Well stated Trip however you strike me as an intellectual that would allow your own country to be overrun and wouldn't understand how it happened. I do not mean that in an offensive manner but rather you would concern yourself with critical thinking so long that it would be too late. Just a guess though, I am quite often wrong.

We have to have a military force, we have to have people that are willing to kill to protect it because people want what Americans have period. They want freedoms, they want a chance to make something of themselves, they want to own land, they want to be accepted, they want all the good things about American but they want to represent their "native" countries while doing it.

It's sad to me really, you are American or gtfo. Our open arms is slowly turning to our downfall.

Yes we wanted religious freedoms from England, we wanted to own land, we wanted to defend what (we stole from the indians). We did this under 1 flag, until the south got frisky then it was 2. Now we sadly are down to one but people do not even want to stand under that one anymore.

Everyone wants to be an individual instead of a team nowadays. WHAT HAPPENED!!

[brooks85]

No faces obscured? Take a look at the picture again, or brush up on the definition...

Your reply is full of insults, but pretty short on any "logic-crushing" (unless you're claiming "Nuh-uh, you're wrong and dumb" as "crushing"). It's spelled "liberty" by the way, not "liberal". How convenient that you could prove me wrong but just don't feel like it...if you can work up the willpower and feel like trying, I'll be waiting

you're an idiot

again, it is not name calling. Idiot has a definition, look it up dummy(example of name calling so you don't get confused)

[Triple_D_Bet]

Well stated Trip however you strike me as an intellectual that would allow your own country to be overrun and wouldn't understand how it happened. I do not mean that in an offensive manner but rather you would concern yourself with critical thinking so long that it would be too late. Just a guess though, I am quite often wrong.

We have to have a military force, we have to have people that are willing to kill to protect it because people want what Americans have period. They want freedoms, they want a chance to make something of themselves, they want to own land, they want to be accepted, they want all the good things about American but they want to represent their "native" countries while doing it.

It's sad to me really, you are American or gtfo. Our open arms is slowly turning to our downfall.

Yes we wanted religious freedoms from England, we wanted to own land, we wanted to defend what (we stole from the indians). We did this under 1 flag, until the south got frisky then it was 2. Now we sadly are down to one but people do not even want to stand under that one anymore.

Everyone wants to be an individual instead of a team nowadays. WHAT HAPPENED!!

No offense taken...open-mindedness needs to be balanced with action, but there are some easy places to draw lines. For me, I'd withdraw from and stop messing with the middle east. If citizens from those countries committed crimes against US citizens, I'd work with their countries to prosecute them; if the countries were uncooperative, trade restrictions seem like a better tool to use than military intervention that only gives people cause to want to harm us more.

I know the military is essential; I served in it. People want the relative prosperity and freedom we have for sure...but what's wrong with them also taking pride in where they came from and wanting to see their previous home thrive as well? To me, an American is one who embraces the concept of liberty and applies it as widely as possible...wishing for or working towards greater freedom or prosperity for other countries isn't treason, it's the logical extension of those ideas.

Our society was supposed to be the best of both worlds; a collective of individuals with guaranteed rights who could work together to protect those rights. The problem with that? With rights come responsibilities, and inability to blame others for any poor decisions...so people started taking mental shortcuts (excessive nationalism, outsourcing their thinking to large groups that could just tell them what to believe, etc). Too much "team" mentality led us to where we are today, where the respect for individual rights has diminished so much we often can't even recognize what's a right and what isn't. By letting other people think for us out of laziness, we continually consent to being taken advantage of by the groups we let think for us

[Triple_D_Bet]

you're an idiot

again, it is not name calling. Idiot has a definition, look it up dummy(example of name calling so you don't get confused)

Gee, thanks....but maybe it would be more helpful if you explained why someone is an idiot for posting a picture with obscured faces and insisting that it contains obscured faces? That's the thing about calling someone an idiot; someone's an idiot, and if you can't explain why the person you're calling is it doesn't look good for you

[brooks85]

Gee, thanks....but maybe it would be more helpful if you explained why someone is an idiot for posting a picture with obscured faces and insisting that it contains obscured faces? That's the thing about calling someone an idiot; someone's an idiot, and if you can't explain why the person you're calling is it doesn't look good for you

what is obscuring their faces?

[Triple_D_Bet]

Depending on which soldier you're talking about: helmets, other soldiers, clothing, etc.

[brooks85]

Gee, thanks....but maybe it would be more helpful if you explained why someone is an idiot for posting a picture with obscured faces and insisting that it contains obscured faces? That's the thing about calling someone an idiot; someone's an idiot, and if you can't explain why the person you're calling is it doesn't look good for you

I think you're doing just fine without me explaining anything

what is obscuring their faces?

Depending on which soldier you're talking about: helmets, other soldiers, clothing, etc.

[Ra77er]

I really want to put madonna vogue video in this thread. I restrained myself.

Trip really good post #115. Basically beating me into submission. Good points on what you would do, I disagree on the second paragraph simply because we do not live in that kind of world anymore where we can think global peace imo, 3rd paragraph I always think team is stronger than individuals even if not every individual is happy. That's why you ask to be traded in sports.

I would totally agree we as Americans have gotten lazy and let the machine run all over us. Trusting greedy people with our best interests is a scary proposition and it feels basically impossible these days to find the good ones that are left out there.

[grease lightnin]

I heard you grease, it seems like the sole point we're debating. I'm not claiming terrorism is OK

I don't think you did. The ONLY thing that I am debating is that the avatar Paco has implies terrorism. ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF SBR!! This place is filled with westerners. You said the intended audience was middle eastern? Who gives a shit what the original meme maker intended? The only thing that matters here is how posters on this site will perceive it. My beef is with Paco--and what matters is what he meant for that avatar to say. He could have come on here and said terrorism is wrong, or that he doesn't believe in killing innocent people, but he hasn't!! He is silent on the issue, but you seem to believe you can read his mind. If you can, then say so, if not, then STFU!!

[grease lightnin]

I think you're doing just fine without me explaining anything

Yeah--the American image as a comparison shows he cares more about being right than the truth. Weak

[Triple_D_Bet]

I think you're doing just fine without me explaining anything

So we've established you don't understand "obscured"...guess we can move on now.

I really want to put madonna vogue video in this thread. I restrained myself.

Trip really good post #115. Basically beating me into submission. Good points on what you would do, I disagree on the second paragraph simply because we do not live in that kind of world anymore where we can think global peace imo, 3rd paragraph I always think team is stronger than individuals even if not every individual is happy. That's why you ask to be traded in sports.

I would totally agree we as Americans have gotten lazy and let the machine run all over us. Trusting greedy people with our best interests is a scary proposition and it feels basically impossible these days to find the good ones that are left out there.

Hah...not trying to beat ya into submission, but these things usually require somewhat detailed explanations. I'm not asking for global peace either; I'm asking for us to stop doing evil in the world. Defending ourselves isn't evil; pre-emptively invading and killing innocents because we lazily think it makes us safer is evil, and only encourages more violence against us.

Teamwork is usually better; but we formed this country because peoples' rights were being trampled, and we wanted a country where everyone wasn't forced to behave as the government said. Establishing and respecting individual rights, including the right to associate with who you please and do as you please with your property, is what we're supposed to be about. I'm not saying we need to abandon the few cultural ties we have as a country, by all means, require citizens to know history, speak English and be familiar with laws. I'm not saying dismantle the military and hope everyone gets along either...I'm just saying try treating other people and other countries the way we want to be treated; it's unlikely we'd be any worse off, and we sure as hell wouldn't be sacrificing soldiers' lives in vain.

[brooks85]

Yeah--the American image as a comparison shows he cares more about being right than the truth. Weak

The american image shows he has no idea what he is talking about. Terrible logic comparing to a terrorist image, no matter how you slice it and his response was penetrating hilariously pathetic. I setup him for that and knew he would walk right in because there is no logic in what he said at all. Lol helmets and other soliders... yes helmets covering the head and other soldiers because of the POV of the painting haha, that is penetrating stupid logic.

Last time I heard something that dumb was when I was educating someone on how governments do not create jobs and when pressed for an answer the moron replied "park rangers and teachers." This is no different lol.

[brooks85]

So we've established you don't understand "obscured"...guess we can move on now.

liberal logic doesn't work on me sheepy, you can try again tho if you want. You're only making yourself look like an idiot.

What is obscuring their faces?

ob·scure
əbˈskyo͝or/<input height="14" type="image" width="14">
verb
past tense: obscured; past participle: obscured
keep from being seen; conceal.

[Triple_D_Bet]

I don't think you did. The ONLY thing that I am debating is that the avatar Paco has implies terrorism. ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF SBR!! This place is filled with westerners. You said the intended audience was middle eastern? Who gives a shit what the original meme maker intended? The only thing that matters here is how posters on this site will perceive it. My beef is with Paco--and what matters is what he meant for that avatar to say. He could have come on here and said terrorism is wrong, or that he doesn't believe in killing innocent people, but he hasn't!! He is silent on the issue, but you seem to believe you can read his mind. If you can, then say so, if not, then STFU!!

I see your point about the audience of his avatar on SBR; and I'll concede that if most posters on SBR think terrorism when they see the avatar, then it implies terrorism to those posters. But again, there's no logical reason I see to believe it's referencing terrorism that I can see, and I haven't seen anyone make a convincing argument for it yet.

Can't read paco's mind, but if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say he hasn't said anything else because he said he was done talking about it a page ago...and he seems to have a history of doing what he says. Do we really need everyone to declare terrorism/killing innocents is wrong though? Seems like a safe assumption to make in the absence of any reason to believe otherwise.

If I see a person with an IED strapped to their chest, it's probably safe to assume it's an image of a suicide bomber/terrorist. Can you give me an reason to believe that everyone wearing a head scarf is a terrorist?

Yeah--the American image as a comparison shows he cares more about being right than the truth. Weak

Huh? Being right means believing the truth, they're the same thing....the use of the American image is similar to the other analogies I've made here, showing a similar situation and how people illogically react to differently.

[Triple_D_Bet]

liberal logic doesn't work on me sheepy, you can try again tho if you want. You're only making yourself look like an idiot.

What is obscuring their faces?

ob·scure
əbˈskyo͝or/<input height="14" type="image" width="14">
verb
past tense: obscured; past participle: obscured
keep from being seen; conceal.

You strike me as a guy who's too busy railing against liberals or other -isms to be concerned about reality. Nevertheless, let's continue...

Now that we've established that the faces in the picture I posted are obscured (or "partially obscured" if you prefer, since a portion of many but not all faces can be seen), go ahead and contrast that to the picture in paco's avatar....I'll wait.

[brooks85]

You strike me as a guy who's too busy railing against liberals or other -isms to be concerned about reality. Nevertheless, let's continue...

Now that we've established that the faces in the picture I posted are obscured (or "partially obscured" if you prefer, since a portion of many but not all faces can be seen), go ahead and contrast that to the picture in paco's avatar....I'll wait.

lol liberal logic at work

you left your answer out silly

What is obscuring their faces?

[Ra77er]

That was funny Triple, dont worry I'll wait

I would say then using your logic that Paco supports the Islamic soldiers. Is that correct as in that's what you think when you see his avatar?

[Triple_D_Bet]

lol liberal logic at work

you left your answer out silly

What is obscuring their faces?

Railing against liberalism when the problem is you can't recognize my answer as an answer...if you can't figure this out brooksy, just say so and I'll leave ya be; talking in circles and ignoring my questions doesn't look too good.

That was funny Triple, dont worry I'll wait

I would say then using your logic that Paco supports the Islamic soldiers. Is that correct as in that's what you think when you see his avatar?

Close, maybe technically right? I'd say soldier, probably Islamic statistically...but I associate it with the middle east in general. And I see no problem with Middle Eastern citizens proclaiming it moral to resist injustice, regardless of the "legality' proclaimed by the oppressor.

Finally looked up the quote, it looks like it was thomas jefferson paraphrased...my bad grease, if you were trying to tweak my nose on not knowing that it went right over my head

[brooks85]

Railing against liberalism when the problem is you can't recognize my answer as an answer...if you can't figure this out brooksy, just say so and I'll leave ya be; talking in circles and ignoring my questions doesn't look too good.



Close, maybe technically right? I'd say soldier, probably Islamic statistically...but I associate it with the middle east in general. And I see no problem with Middle Eastern citizens proclaiming it moral to resist injustice, regardless of the "legality' proclaimed by the oppressor.

Finally looked up the quote, it looks like it was thomas jefferson paraphrased...my bad grease, if you were trying to tweak my nose on not knowing that it went right over my head

oh so you're sticking with your original answer lol

Helmets are covering top of their head, not their face idiot. Go try to fight a war with a helmet on your face moron.

No one has clothing obscuring their face just like no one is wearing another solider around their head to obscure their face. Since you apparently didn't take first grade art class what you're referring too is point of view of the artist. By your same dumb logic, if the artist painted the picture from bird's eye view you'd say "their helmets are obscuring their faces." If the artist painted the picture from behind you'd say "the back of their head is obscuring their faces." You're an idiot.



and, just for a little salt on the wound. You're right; about USA needs to stay the penetrate out of the middle east and bombing the place. But, you're wrong about this.

[Triple_D_Bet]

oh so you're sticking with your original answer lol

Helmets are covering top of their head, not their face idiot. Go try to fight a war with a helmet on your face moron.

No one has clothing obscuring their face just like no one is wearing another solider around their head to obscure their face. Since you apparently didn't take first grade art class what you're referring too is point of view of the artist. By your same dumb logic, if the artist painted the picture from bird's eye view you'd say "their helmets are obscuring their faces." If the artist painted the picture from behind you'd say "their necks are obscuring their faces." You're an idiot.

Now was that so hard to explain? We can't fix you if we don't know what you're talking about

As for what you're saying...you seem too preoccupied with being right to realize you're not. If something is concealed from the only point of view, than it's concealed, plain and simple. So a soldier's helmet hiding part of another soldiers face...is obscuring. A soldier's face hidden by his cloak, or his collar...is obscured.

Compare that to pacos avatar; where the head wrap also covers part of the face from the point of view shown. See the similarity. Both images contain people with obscured faces. If you want to play semantics and say they're only partially obscured in each instance, then fine, sure.

Any questions? Or are you just going to ignore those facts and try calling me an idiot again? Either way, let me know...I've got some stuff to do, but will check back on ya

[brooks85]

Now was that so hard to explain? We can't fix you if we don't know what you're talking about

As for what you're saying...you seem too preoccupied with being right to realize you're not. If something is concealed from the only point of view, than it's concealed, plain and simple. So a soldier's helmet hiding part of another soldiers face...is obscuring. A soldier's face hidden by his cloak, or his collar...is obscured.

Compare that to pacos avatar; where the head wrap also covers part of the face from the point of view shown. See the similarity. Both images contain people with obscured faces. If you want to play semantics and say they're only partially obscured in each instance, then fine, sure.

Any questions? Or are you just going to ignore those facts and try calling me an idiot again? Either way, let me know...I've got some stuff to do, but will check back on ya

because of the artist dummy, you can't spin it no matter how hard you try. In real life if you walk around those soliders they wouldn't be obscuring each others faces now would they? You can not deny this but please lets watch you try...

[paco]

Grease. No I don't support terrorism. We have different definitions of what is terrorism. If someone came into ur home, and told u to get the penetrate out along with ur kids, what would u do? Fight back right? Well that's what's happening in Gaza. Guys like Brooks would kill anyone that wanted to take away something like his guns but someone who is coming into the someone's home and kicking them out fighting back is called a terrorist smfh. Settlers are coming and taking over land amd homes that isn't there's. They recently burned a baby alive. U know what the guy got at punishment? 6 months in jail. 6 months. If u Americans fight for ur basic civil rights, it's considered a revolutionist, if it's a Muslim fighting to protect his home and family, u guys call it terrorism. U guys don't see what's happening there, only see what American media wants u to see. Gaza and Hamas are not terrorist, they are freedom fighters fighting and standing up for basic rights. Any on the point of obscuring the face, do u guys consider Anonymous terrorists?

[grease lightnin]

I understand where you are coming from, paco. Thanks for clarifying. I noticed the scarf on the avys head was checked like yasser arafat's and thought maybe it was a palestinian thing. If somebody comes into your home and attempts to throw you out based on your ethnicity, I completely understand why you would fight back. But that particular avatar is not explicit enough for this crowd to understand where you're coming from with that. We see that--we see 9/11.

[paco]

Well it isn't. Actually majority of Muslims don't accept what happened 9/11. I'm sure some were happy. But there are radicals in every category. Just like everyone says Muslims support Isis but we don't. Isis is even killing Muslims. They bombed a mosque on Friday prayer killing dozens. They are extremist group. People are fighting against them best they can but hard to keep up when the West is providing them all these weapons. (Look into it, yes Isis is funded by the western powers) Ofcourse this is where Brooks will come in and say all us Muslims inside our heart were happy but no way to prove him otherwise except saying we didn't. These 2 Americans don't see a terrorist when I have my scarf on

[Triple_D_Bet]

because of the artist dummy, you can't spin it no matter how hard you try. In real life if you walk around those soliders they wouldn't be obscuring each others faces now would they? You can not deny this but please lets watch you try...

Semantics brooksy, but this is a picture, not real life. In the image, which is the only thing being shown (not real life), their faces are obscured. If a picture is shown of a wall, whatever is behind it is obscured; no sensible person is going to say it's not because "you could see whatever it is if you walk around the wall". If you walk around a soldier to the back, his own head obscures his face...pretty ridiculous thing to claim that concealment is independent of point of view

Regardless of all that, in your haste to split hairs, you seem to have forgotten to address my point that both pacos avatar and the image I posted feature people with their faces obscured, and that you only associate one with terrorism not because of the concealment, but because of the clothes.

Grease. No I don't support terrorism. We have different definitions of what is terrorism. If someone came into ur home, and told u to get the penetrate out along with ur kids, what would u do? Fight back right? Well that's what's happening in Gaza. Guys like Brooks would kill anyone that wanted to take away something like his guns but someone who is coming into the someone's home and kicking them out fighting back is called a terrorist smfh. Settlers are coming and taking over land amd homes that isn't there's. They recently burned a baby alive. U know what the guy got at punishment? 6 months in jail. 6 months. If u Americans fight for ur basic civil rights, it's considered a revolutionist, if it's a Muslim fighting to protect his home and family, u guys call it terrorism. U guys don't see what's happening there, only see what American media wants u to see. Gaza and Hamas are not terrorist, they are freedom fighters fighting and standing up for basic rights. Any on the point of obscuring the face, do u guys consider Anonymous terrorists?

No good paco...if you walked behind the guy in the mask, you might find an angle where you could see part of his face, so it's not concealed per brooksy

I understand where you are coming from, paco. Thanks for clarifying. I noticed the scarf on the avys head was checked like yasser arafat's and thought maybe it was a palestinian thing. If somebody comes into your home and attempts to throw you out based on your ethnicity, I completely understand why you would fight back. But that particular avatar is not explicit enough for this crowd to understand where you're coming from with that. We see that--we see 9/11.

I'm not arguing this isn't true for you and others, you know what you think better than I do...my point is and has always been that you're reaching that conclusion without any rational reason, by applying a broad stereotype that simply isn't true..

[hugh_jorgan]

Triple D ... no doubt that you make some valid points ...
With that said, OMG you are long winded

[Triple_D_Bet]

Triple D ... no doubt that you make some valid points ...
With that said, OMG you are long winded

I like to think being wordy and clear saves time trying to clarify later...or maybe I just like to see myself type; otherwise, what sane person would keep trying with all these essays?

[bobbywaves]

what sane person would keep trying with all these essays?

No sane person would constantly reply with all these essays, only insane folks such as yourself.