Prop Joe's Bets Thread

[gabe]

So if somebody like Mir says fighting Big Nog for a second time is a "lose-lose" situation for him (which he did say) does that mean he doesn't care about winning then?

Um, what I remember Mir saying is that he is going to beat Big Nog in a more impressive fashion this time to make it clear that he is the better fighter. If that makes you think he doesn't care about winning, then okay.

And you must be real dumb because being in a lose-lose situation is THAT MUCH more motivation to want to win! Jesus Christ, man!

[proposition joe]

I would agree with you. All fighters are always confident in themselves. My point is that's irrelevant to this situation.

If a fighter I had a lot of money on said that this fight was a "win-win" situation for him, I would be freaking out. You want the guy you're betting on to want to rather die than lose. You don't wanna be backing anyone who is happy with a loss.

Given Belfort's general demeanor and personality, I'm not worried about his current attitude towards this fight. I don't think that Vitor being at peace with the situation, which he certainly seems to be, is a bad thing. His worst performances have been during times where he was in quite the opposite mental states.

[gabe]

Good point. Ironically, Mir pulled off the only possible result that could have raised his stock, in my opinion.

No, that was a terrible point. You guys can't all be this dumb. COME ON!!!!!!!

[gabe]

Given Belfort's general demeanor and personality, I'm not worried about his current attitude towards this fight. I don't think that Vitor being at peace with the situation, which he certainly seems to be, is a bad thing. His worst performances have been during times where he was in quite the opposite mental states.

His worst performances are against skilled fighters.

His best performances are against nobodies and skilled but over-the-hill fighters.

[proposition joe]

No, that was a terrible point. You guys can't all be this dumb. COME ON!!!!!!!

Harvard didn't think I was too dumb

[proposition joe]

Anyways, I'm done debating about an interview that I haven't even seen. As long as this fight is as entertaining as I think that it will be, then I am happy.

[gabe]

Harvard didn't think I was too dumb

LOL You'd be surprised how many morons have come out of Harvard.

[gabe]

Respek!

[proposition joe]

Respek!

[Vaughany]

No, that was a terrible point. You guys can't all be this dumb. COME ON!!!!!!!

Yes that's it, the majority are always wrong!

[NunyaBidness]

I don't think fighter interviews can do anything but impair your capping.

[Vaughany]

Um, what I remember Mir saying is that he is going to beat Big Nog in a more impressive fashion this time to make it clear that he is the better fighter. If that makes you think he doesn't care about winning, then okay.

And you must be real dumb because being in a lose-lose situation is THAT MUCH more motivation to want to win! Jesus Christ, man!

The whole point of feeling that you are in a "lose-lose" situation is the fact that you don't think that you can win no matter what the outcome - surely you can agree with this?! So your theory that knowing u can't win no matter what gives you more motivation to want to win makes no sense as it is futile! The hint is in the name "lose-lose" - i.e the only outcome is "LOSING"!

Good point. Ironically, Mir pulled off the only possible result that could have raised his stock, in my opinion.

As Prop Joe rightly says, the only possible result that could of raised Mir's stock was subbing Nog, a fact that Mir himself clearly alludes to towards end of this interview... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=IxYckETXiig#!

[Vaughany]

Given Belfort's general demeanor and personality, I'm not worried about his current attitude towards this fight. I don't think that Vitor being at peace with the situation, which he certainly seems to be, is a bad thing. His worst performances have been during times where he was in quite the opposite mental states.

And if you watch the interview (UFC.com open work-outs) this is clearly what, if anything, the very short interview suggests. Him saying he's in a win-win situation could conversely be seen as a positive at it could suggest he isn't feeling the pressure that one might expect the home-town hero who is the favourite and more experienced fighter to feel.

[gabe]

The whole point of feeling that you are in a "lose-lose" situation is the fact that you don't think that you can win no matter what the outcome - surely you can agree with this?! So your theory that knowing u can't win no matter what gives you more motivation to want to win makes no sense as it is futile! The hint is in the name "lose-lose" - i.e the only outcome is "LOSING"!




As Prop Joe rightly says, the only possible result that could of raised Mir's stock was subbing Nog, a fact that Mir himself clearly alludes to towards end of this interview... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=IxYckETXiig#!

Again- NO- Being in a lose-lose situation does NOT mean the fighter is content with losing. If Mir lost that fight, he would feel worse than if he lost any other fight. Losing that fight is more embarrassing than losing any other. You are more motivated to win! And win impressively!

You're comparing that to Vitor saying he would be happy with a loss. I just don't get it!

[proposition joe]

Added: UFC 142

Mike Massenzio (+400) to risk 150

Carlo Prater (+400) to risk 100

Michihiro Omigawa (+150) to risk 100

[Vaughany]

Again- NO- Being in a lose-lose situation does NOT mean the fighter is content with losing. If Mir lost that fight, he would feel worse than if he lost any other fight. Losing that fight is more embarrassing than losing any other. You are more motivated to win! And win impressively!

You're comparing that to Vitor saying he would be happy with a loss. I just don't get it!

Okay so maybe that is how you would look at that situation. But for Mir it wasnt, as the interview clearly proves. I personally don't see how losing to a legend in Nogueira would of been embarassing tho? Especially in comparison to his previous losses against likes of Freeman, Vera and Marcio Cruz!

Of course Mir wouldn't be "content" with losing, where did I say that? You need to realise that there is a difference between feeling/accepting that you are in a lose-lose situation and being content with losing. This is my whole point, you can't say absolutely whether it gives you more motivation or no motivation, the same as you can't say that Vitor would be happy with a loss because he is in a "win-win" situation.

You're comparing that to Vitor saying he would be happy with a loss. I just don't get it!

And once again, I still don't see where he is saying that he'd be "happy with a loss!" Yes he might think he's in a win-win situation whether he wins or loses the fight, but surely u can't deny that the feeling of actually winning the fight is a whole different level of winning to just being satisfied that you made it this far in your career! You seem to be looking at it as if Belfort is saying that whether he wins or loses he will still be equally happy which is just retarded. He's simply saying that a loss wouldnt be the end of the world - he's demonstrating his experience and maturity. Obviously actually winning the fight is where he'll feel truly content.

[gabe]

Okay so maybe that is how you would look at that situation. But for Mir it wasnt, as the interview clearly proves. I personally don't see how losing to a legend in Nogueira would of been embarassing tho? Especially in comparison to his previous losses against likes of Freeman, Vera and Marcio Cruz!

Of course Mir wouldn't be "content" with losing, where did I say that? You need to realise that there is a difference between feeling/accepting that you are in a lose-lose situation and being content with losing. This is my whole point, you can't say absolutely whether it gives you more motivation or no motivation, the same as you can't say that Vitor would be happy with a loss because he is in a "win-win" situation.



And once again, I still don't see where he is saying that he'd be "happy with a loss!" Yes he might think he's in a win-win situation whether he wins or loses the fight, but surely u can't deny that the feeling of actually winning the fight is a whole different level of winning to just being satisfied that you made it this far in your career! You seem to be looking at it as if Belfort is saying that whether he wins or loses he will still be equally happy which is just retarded. He's simply saying that a loss wouldnt be the end of the world - he's demonstrating his experience and maturity. Obviously actually winning the fight is where he'll feel truly content.

Being in a win-win situation means you're happy if you lose. JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!! Of course he would be much more happy if he wins, but that still means he is happy even if things don't go his way. Wow, man...

It was VERY IMPORTANT to Frank Mir that he win that fight. Vitor doesn't feel it's that important to win this one. STOP COMPARING THE TWO.

And yes, Frank Mir would feel worse losing that fight than his other losses. If you'd read as many interviews as I did leading up to the fight, that message would have been CLEAR to you. The guy made it clear that he did not want to lose that fight. He even seemed scared and embarrassed at the idea of losing.

[Vaughany]

Being in a win-win situation means you're happy if you lose.

Okay so let me clarify this, by Belfort saying that this fight is a win-win situation for him, you think he means he'll be happy if he loses???

[gabe]

Okay so let me clarify this, by Belfort saying that this fight is a win-win situation for him, you think he means he'll be happy if he loses???

Yes, that is EXACTLY what he meant. He is just happy to be this long into his career and fighting in Brazil. It's a win-win situation. A be extremely happy-Be pretty happy situation. Regardless of the outcome, the guy says that is going to be a good night for him!

He's gonna put on a good fight in front of his home crowd and he is going to party his ass off afterwards. He knows he is in for a tough challenge, and is very content with the idea of losing.

He did not seem that way when fighting Akiyama, because he knew he would win that fight for sure.

[Crippledjitsu]

Gabe you are being extremely over confident in AJ when this is his first time at this weight, considering he cuts from 220, his cardio issues may still be around. Also, who has he taken down with any TDD defense? Dan 'ardy? He got his ass handed to him by koscheck, who is not only a smaller dude, but not the most technical of strikers.
Im actually fairly dubious to the level of his wrestling, I would also like to think that belfort, since he started working with couture in 2008, and gsp a few months ago, has got enough to stuff a few takedowns. But again we shall wait and see.

[Vaughany]

How long did Belfort train with GSP for? I thought it was like for 2 days before GSP got injured?!

[Beelzebubzy]

How long did Belfort train with GSP for? I thought it was like for 2 days before GSP got injured?!

Can Belfort learn enough wrestling to compete with AJ credentials.

[proposition joe]

Wtf is up with AJ at 197?? Seriously, **** that guy. He should be cut, win or lose.

[Vaughany]

Wtf is up with AJ at 197?? Seriously, **** that guy. He should be cut, win or lose.

Before seeing the weigh-ins I'd of disagreed and said he should just lose 50% of his purse, but after seeing him come out smiling and laughing I hope he gets knocked out and cut!

[MMAbetMASTA]

Added: UFC 142

Mike Massenzio (+400) to risk 150

Carlo Prater (+400) to risk 100

Michihiro Omigawa (+150) to risk 100

Why you liking omigawa, joe?

I was planning to go large on alcantra... what's your breakdown??? Gracias.

[proposition joe]

Why you liking omigawa, joe?

I was planning to go large on alcantra... what's your breakdown??? Gracias.

I like Alcantara as a fighter much more than Omigawa. I really don't think much of Omigawa's offensive fighting abilities. But he is very, very tough to finish and given the stylistic matchup, I believe that a finish will be necessary for Yuri to win. Omigawa's experience and takedowns make him very capable of grinding out an ugly split-decision here. I pegged Omigawa as a very slight favorite (-130 range) so I pretty much had to make a play. But don't let me discourage you because this is far from one of my most confident plays!

[gabe]

I like Alcantara as a fighter much more than Omigawa. I really don't think much of Omigawa's offensive fighting abilities. But he is very, very tough to finish and given the stylistic matchup, I believe that a finish will be necessary for Yuri to win. Omigawa's experience and takedowns make him very capable of grinding out an ugly split-decision here. I pegged Omigawa as a very slight favorite (-130 range) so I pretty much had to make a play. But don't let me discourage you because this is far from one of my most confident plays!

Omigawa is also very experienced in Judo and a great Judoka will outclass a BJJ guy. I see him using his judo to his advantage in this fight. He's also been training his BJJ with Eddie Bravo. Dude is ready for this fight. I say he's got a good shot at winning.

[NunyaBidness]

Omigawa is also very experienced in Judo and a great Judoka will outclass a BJJ guy. I see him using his judo to his advantage in this fight. He's also been training his BJJ with Eddie Bravo. Dude is ready for this fight. I say he's got a good shot at winning.

Is that anthony johnson?

[gabe]

Is that anthony johnson?

Yeah, he was spotted leaving a Church in Brazil. Said he was in there praying the weight off.

[Vaughany]

Omigawa is also very experienced in Judo and a great Judoka will outclass a BJJ guy. I see him using his judo to his advantage in this fight. He's also been training his BJJ with Eddie Bravo. Dude is ready for this fight. I say he's got a good shot at winning.

Where have you read that Omigawa has been training with Bravo?

[gabe]

Where have you read that Omigawa has been training with Bravo?

I watched a 30 minute video of them sparring.

He's been coming down to 10th planet BJJ.

[Vaughany]

I watched a 30 minute video of them sparring.

He's been coming down to 10th planet BJJ.

Is the video online?

[proposition joe]

Speaking of Eddie Bravo....I've always assumed for some reason that the songs that they always play during the weigh-ins are by him. Why I think this is unsure. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[gabe]

Is the video online?

Yeah, but I can't seem to find it. Don't remember where I originally came across it.

[Crippledjitsu]

Thank god I actually have a bit of knowledge in mma gabe