[Tarnski]

I hear your frustration DeeDee. I feel like SBR also knows that I had my balance stolen with no justification. I believe if they had anything to comment on they would. My case has also been open for 4 months without a single response. Im also pretty sure Bovada employees are lurking through this forum and SBR is well aware of that. I believe SBR is in close contact with Bovada and could get you an answer if they had one but when Bovada steals a players funds with no justification they just look the other way. I've seen many times in the past where they tell the players which rules they broke and why their balance was voided so it's just strange at this point that they aren't saying anything. Good luck!

[DeeDeeKing]

"The mission statement of Sportsbook Review is to ensure that bettors have every resource needed to avoid being conned by scam sportsbooks, and to be able to effectively shop for quality bookmakers using the sportsbook rating guide."

Stiffed for 25k by Bovada.

[DeeDeeKing]

I'm sorry if I seem irrational at this point. It's starting to hit me that the likelihood is I never see this money again.
I read past posts on SBR. SBR is almost always successful in getting people their money when the client isn't at fault. I thought it might take a while but eventually, I'd see my money. I don't know why this time is different.Now I'm starting to realize that's not going to happen

If anyone has any suggestions about what else to do, or where else to go I'm listening.I've tried calling in the past. They wouldn't communicate with me

[Pinocchio]

Any help appreciated. If you have a question please ask.

What was/were the bet(s) that won you 40k?

[Roger T. Bannon]

Not that question.

[DeeDeeKing]

People keep asking what exactly the bet was I don't see why this is relevant.- Bovada never said there was an issue with the bets.
- SBR saw screenshots of the wagers and didn't say there was problems with bets.
- The wagers were on the French open, on a major mens match, the winning wagers were 3 parlays. All my bets were on major tennis and soccer/NFL
- It wasn't a past post,or a fixed match .

[Roger T. Bannon]

If it is not relevant, why do you care if you post them or not?

[PD77]

I’m not saying this is it but Bovada General Rule 5.1 almost fits this story. Bovada knows something is up, just like everyone here does, they aren’t revealing their hand and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Anyone deemed to be betting in a syndicate-like fashion so as to receive either cash winnings or activity bonuses will have all winnings and bonus activity payouts from said activity withheld and will not receive a payout of any kind in direct relation to the aforementioned.

[SBR Forum]

I’m not saying this is it but Bovada General Rule 5.1 almost fits this story. Bovada knows something is up, just like everyone here does, they aren’t revealing their hand and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Anyone deemed to be betting in a syndicate-like fashion so as to receive either cash winnings or activity bonuses will have all winnings and bonus activity payouts from said activity withheld and will not receive a payout of any kind in direct relation to the aforementioned.

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

6.2 Fraudulent Activity. If, in our reasonable discretion, we determine that a player has engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper activity (including, without limitation, the usage of a VPN, proxy or similar service that masks or manipulates the identification of your real location, or by otherwise providing false or misleading information, or by making bets, wagers or poker play through a third party or on behalf of a third party) we reserve the right to immediately terminate or deny a player access to their Account. In such event, all Account balances (including both deposits and any winnings) shall be forfeited and we reserve the right to disclose information (including the identity of the player) to applicable parties including but not limited to banks, credit card companies and/or any person or entity that has the legal right to such information, and/or taking legal action against such player.

[PD77]

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

Thanks for the update, I guess this settles it.

[ace7550]

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

I can see both sides of this. It's frustrating. I'd like to know what OP did to deserve having everything confiscated. It would be nice to have some idea without going into details. Something like "syndicate activity," or "Steam chasing," or "Multiple accounts," would be enough and wouldn't give away anything in terms of Bovada security.

[dave11486]

They know you aren't going anywhere for long.

Giving me douche chills bro. Probably not the first time you've heard that. Nice avatar, nerd.

[dave11486]

My suggestion would be to go to the community forum they offer and get one of the Mods there to help b/c Live Chat at Bovada is useless. Glad they sorted things out to your liking but something has definitely "changed" there with the Bonuses etc. Don't believe me? Read the comments in the community forum there

Thanks man I'll tread lightly. I thought it was a weird thing for them to take a stand on. I had no urgency, so I thought I'd ask for a courtesy. It's all good now I guess. Does anyone have a recommendation for a book available for US players that will pay out reliably? That is all I care about at this point.

[DeeDeeKing]

Edit by SBR:

6.2 Fraudulent Activity. If, in our reasonable discretion, we determine that a player has engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper activity (including, without limitation, the usage of a VPN, proxy or similar service that masks or manipulates the identification of your real location, or by otherwise providing false or misleading information, or by making bets, wagers or poker play through a third party or on behalf of a third party) we reserve the right to immediately terminate or deny a player access to their Account. In such event, all Account balances (including both deposits and any winnings) shall be forfeited and we reserve the right to disclose information (including the identity of the player) to applicable parties including but not limited to banks, credit card companies and/or any person or entity that has the legal right to such information, and/or taking legal action against such player.

It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS.

Do you think I'm entitled to knowing what sections of the ToS I violated? Since no one, not Bovada nor SBR has bothered to tell me. Would SBR accept this kind of vague behavior from another book?

[Colonist]

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

To take someone's entire balance under the banner of "broke the rules" is downright silly and unacceptable. Saying that giving the reason would "undermine security" is what a scam F book would say. People deserve more than that. I was in this same situation with Bovada for months when they held my balance ransom because they claimed that I reversed a charge on them, which has proven to be 100% untrue. They made a false claim and had no proof to back it up and the burden was on me to provide a tremendous amount of documentation while they did nothing and then didn't respond to me for months. They likely had a processor that was trying to rob them so they felt that it was justified to try and rob me. Very poor business practices from a formerly reliable book.

[DeeDeeKing]

Just in case people didn't read the earlier pages (or forgot).

This is the only piece of communication that Bovada sent me in regards to them confiscating my balance.

No follow up. No explanation. Never told me which terms I violated (still don't know). This is how an A+ book confiscates funds (with zero repercussions).

[vampire assassin]

Did they refund your deposit?

[PD77]

Did they refund your deposit?

• Deposited on bovada. Lost 6.5K
• Deposited 9K turned it into 40K
• Asked for 10K by bitcoin, they lock account ask for id, selfie, and bill
• Sent everything to them, they sent the money and unlocked account
• They send what they consider my "deposit" around 5,000. But are keeping the 25,000 I won.

.

In post #1 it’s not exactly clear but in a round about way he describes depositing 15,500 in two deposits and Bovada processes one $10,000 withdrawal and a second for around $5000 and closed the account so yes , they refunded both of his deposits.

[TommieGunshot]

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

6.2 Fraudulent Activity. If, in our reasonable discretion, we determine that a player has engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper activity (including, without limitation, the usage of a VPN, proxy or similar service that masks or manipulates the identification of your real location, or by otherwise providing false or misleading information, or by making bets, wagers or poker play through a third party or on behalf of a third party) we reserve the right to immediately terminate or deny a player access to their Account. In such event, all Account balances (including both deposits and any winnings) shall be forfeited and we reserve the right to disclose information (including the identity of the player) to applicable parties including but not limited to banks, credit card companies and/or any person or entity that has the legal right to such information, and/or taking legal action against such player.

Based on this, it seems SBR agrees that Bovada may steal customers money at any time simply by claiming a violation of the terms of service.

If that is the case, that means SBR should not have them rated A+. By continuing to give them that rating, SBR knows very well that their "sportsbook review" is meaningless.

If it is not the case that Bovada may steal customers money at anytime, for any reason, where is there any evidence that any terms of service were violated?

[ace7550]

The precedent that's being established here is that an A+ book can keep a player's winnings without giving any explanation. This is not a good precedent.
I don't think OP is totally innocent of wrong doing. But some justification needs to be provided.

[TommieGunshot]

The precedent that's being established here is that an A+ book can keep a player's winnings without giving any explanation. This is not a good precedent.
I don't think OP is totally innocent of wrong doing. But some justification needs to be provided.

The precedent SBR is setting is that their "sportsbook reviews" have no value to anyone.

[vampire assassin]

I use a VPN to play at Pinnacle. If I accidentally left it on when I logged into Bovada, does that mean Bovada can forfeit all my winnings?

[DeeDeeKing]

I don't think OP is totally innocent of wrong doing. But some justification needs to be provided.

Could you give an example of the sort of wrong doing you think I might be guilty of? (fwiw, Bovada and SBR haven't told me either.)

Also, this is from SBR's statement (edited on first post in thread).

It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security.

This is how I read the statement by SBR. Bovada has some sort of hi-tech security system that detects behavior that breaks their ToS. Speaking about the system publicly would possibly render the system ineffective.My question, why exactly didn't this hi-tech system notify them of my (supposed) ToS breaking behavior when I first started playing?

Seems like the system wasn't working when I lost the initial 6K.

Kinda odd how the system doesn't detect this "activity" when you're losing money to them.

Am I the only the person who thinks this way? Clearly I'm biased, I want my money. But how can someone objectively look at this and not think Bovada "freerolls" customers?

[PD77]

Could you give an example of the sort of wrong doing you think I might be guilty of? (fwiw, Bovada and SBR haven't told me either.)

Also, this is from SBR's statement (edited on first post in thread).



This is how I read the statement by SBR. Bovada has some sort of hi-tech security system that detects behavior that breaks their ToS. Speaking about the system publicly would possibly render the system ineffective.My question, why exactly didn't this hi-tech system notify them of my (supposed) ToS breaking behavior when I first started playing?

Seems like the system wasn't working when I lost the initial 6K.

Kinda odd how the system doesn't detect this "activity" when you're losing money to them.

Am I the only the person who thinks this way? Clearly I'm biased, I want my money. But how can someone objectively look at this and not think Bovada "freerolls" customers?

They dont use the "high-tech" system until they need to, which is withdrawal time. They hold ALL of the cards up until then. If you wouldnt have requested a withdrawal , would you still be playing there? Not sure, but I'd guess yes. Yes , it looks really bad on Bovada's end , and yes they freerolled you. But, you do not present yourself as a completely innocent victim either. If Bovada really wanted to stick it to you, they would not have refunded your deposits. The best thing you can do is to scream as loud and long as you can and hope someone or somewhere notices that can help because SBR can't do anything. I wouldve been doing exactly that for the last six months, letting it go this long without raising hell is something I could not do if I were 100% in the right.

[BigdaddyQH]

"6.2 Fraudulent Activity. If, in our reasonable discretion..." Game, set, and match. In THEIR "reasonable discretion". You have stupidly given them to take what they want when they want to take it. Off shore books will lose BILLIONS of Dollars compared to last years take and it is practices like this that drive knowledgeable gamblers OUT of off shore books and into US based books where things like this are a rarity. Remember SBR is based In Costa Rica, where many of these books are based. Who do you think pays SBR to stay afloat?

[TommieGunshot]

I use a VPN to play at Pinnacle. If I accidentally left it on when I logged into Bovada, does that mean Bovada can forfeit all my winnings?

Yes, Bovada is showing that they are willing to steal the money of their customers at anytime, for whatever reason they want to. SBR supports them in doing this.

[cerolo89]

Is Bovada taking 25k from a player due to vpn usage? Ok.. Sounds A PLUS

[DeeDeeKing]

letting it go this long without raising hell is something I could not do if I were 100% in the right.

I'm fully aware of SBR's misaligned incentives here (I'm not blaming them of anything I'm sure they want me to get paid). That's specifically why I didn't try to make a scene and embarrass one of their top books. Maybe you are right and I should have made a scene all along (based on my results you're probably right). But I picked my path. Claiming I'm somehow at fault for this because I didn't behave exactly like you would have is a stretch.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm thankful for your input and keeping the thread alive.

But, you do not present yourself as a completely innocent victim either.

Not trying to be argumentative but what exactly am I guilty of? Winning? What do you, or the others in the thread, saying the same thing, think I did? A better question, what do you think I did that excuses Bovada taking 25K? If I knowingly past posted, they'd be in the right to confiscate my funds. If I knowingly bet on fixed matches they'd be in the right to confiscate my funds.It's been four months, there's never been an accusation of either.

(I'll be back later this evening if anyone responds or has a question).

[Optional]

Based on this, it seems SBR agrees that Bovada may steal customers money at any time simply by claiming a violation of the terms of service.

Well that's not true, obviously.

But based on your words you seem to be saying SBR should fight for people who break the terms of service?

Is that your argument here???

And why you are three posts deep attacking SBR?!

YFI

[PD77]

Not trying to be argumentative but what exactly am I guilty of? Winning? What do you, or the others in the thread, saying the same thing, think I did? A better question, what do you think I did that excuses Bovada taking 25K? If I knowingly past posted, they'd be in the right to confiscate my funds. If I knowingly bet on fixed matches they'd be in the right to confiscate my funds.It's been four months, there's never been an accusation of either.

(I'll be back later this evening if anyone responds or has a question).

What is your history DeeDeeKing? Which books do you play at consistently? Which forums do you post at? All we have to go on is this thread. These werent the first bets you’ve ever placed, you aren’t new to gambling. In my opinion you are guilty of not being pissed off enough, it’s like you were not surprised at all that Bovada took your winnings and refunded your deposits. Maybe this has happened to you before? I can only guess but I suspect Bovada thinks you placed these wagers on behalf of someone else or a syndicate. A beard. Very few people open accounts and go all in with $15k without something suspicious going on. I am a firm believer in , if you book the bet , you pay the bet. Since Bovada won’t disclose what you did there is absolutely no reason for them not to pay you. Using the high tech fraud detection excuse is pure BS. I’d suggest getting on Twitter and start screaming there, you’d be amazed where it can go. Dave Portnoy absolutely torched mybookie on Twitter.

[vampire assassin]

In my opinion you are guilty of not being pissed off enough, it’s like you were not surprised at all that Bovada took your winnings and refunded your deposits.

Once this happened, the OP only had one way to recover his money -- getting SBR to look into it. If he got "pissed off enough", he'd probably get banned.

[TommieGunshot]

Well that's not true, obviously.

But based on your words you seem to be saying SBR should fight for people who break the terms of service?

Is that your argument here???

And why you are three posts deep attacking SBR?!

YFI

What terms of service were broken? If they can be articulated, I will change my position.

[ace7550]

Could you give an example of the sort of wrong doing you think I might be guilty of? (fwiw, Bovada and SBR haven't told me either.)

I have no idea. The problem is that you are one guy who has 30 posts here and you have no track record. Bovada has paid me many thousands in the last year and every gambler I know plays there and has been paid as well.
So the question is this: Why would Bovada pay everyone I know many thousands but just randomly decide to stiff you?
All that being said, I do agree with you on this: We need a better explanation. Taking someone's winnings needs a better explanation than, "He did something bad and we can't tell you."

[Colonist]

The biggest issue (imo) here that bothers me the most is that Bovada can certainly take this position but they cannot take this position AFTER a customer wins. They need their high tech nonsense to be enabled BEFORE the customer wins. The free roll aspect of this is clear and is most disturbing.

[Frank]

We have spoken at length with Bovada. It is their position that there was account activity which violated the cited sections of their ToS. It is an unusual case in that normally there is more information exchange, but we understand their hesitance to go on the record to be an effort not to undermine security. It leaves a desire for more information in the court of public opinion, to be sure, and we wish we could elaborate.

6.2 Fraudulent Activity. If, in our reasonable discretion, we determine that a player has engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper activity (including, without limitation, the usage of a VPN, proxy or similar service that masks or manipulates the identification of your real location, or by otherwise providing false or misleading information, or by making bets, wagers or poker play through a third party or on behalf of a third party) we reserve the right to immediately terminate or deny a player access to their Account. In such event, all Account balances (including both deposits and any winnings) shall be forfeited and we reserve the right to disclose information (including the identity of the player) to applicable parties including but not limited to banks, credit card companies and/or any person or entity that has the legal right to such information, and/or taking legal action against such player.

This reads what Bovada's position is and why they feel they cannot elaborate on it.

I am curious as to what SBR's position is, as it doesn't say anything regarding how they feel.

If not enough information can be gathered, behind closed doors, for SBR to have a stance, one way or the other, it shows that the book is not trustworthy and deserving of their high grade.

This is awful if this good enough, case closed, with nothing being resolved and no answers at all.

Every book will start using this excuse and this will be the new normal.