are we going to war??

[pavyracer]

did you see the Bush speech?

"this is unacceptable"

lmfao...like we didnt know and approve of it before hand

hilarious

now I bet he is off to the greens for a little 18 hole

Bush can't do anything. Putin has his balls tied in a knot.

[Shark79]

Any of you enlisted ... to go and fight for your country?

[Shark79]

I wish I was the Pres

[Cloak & Dagger]

Bush can't do anything. Putin has his balls tied in a knot.

the tanks that rolled into georgia looked rusty and from the 70's



you're a funny guy pavy but I agree with your pick on MINN tonight

[pavyracer]

the tanks that rolled into georgia looked rusty and from the 70's



you're a funny guy pavy but I agree with your pick on MINN tonight

Read the post I made in the other "Next war will be against Russia" thread. Maybe you can learn something...

[purecarnagge]

This is funny...considering the georgians were slaughtering the russian tank advance so they had to go to artillery and bombers/fights to force the gerogians to retreat.

Russians lost 10 planes in the conflict over 40 confirmed tanks.

We airlifted all of the georgian troops in Iraq home already.

Russia is being Russia...and if the US deployed the Navy to the region they would definately be thinking twice. Russia has no answer for the F22 Currently.

Also I know a friend who trained Georgian troops, they are trained very well, and most of our troops actually like them. They aren't as good as our spec ops guys, but they did some good out on the Iraq/Iran border which earned them some good will from the guys that served with them out there.

[bettilimbroke999]

Pavy the US is the most powerful, wealthiest nation on earth, we own all the best weaponry and technology, but the prob is Russia owns 5000 ICBM with nuclear warheads. So we can't just fukin send our planes over there and waste their shit bag army with bombs/missile/technology Russia couldnt begin to afford b/c it could very easily lead to the end of the world. In a non-nuclear war the US would have Putin suckin off Bush for forgiveness in about 2 weeks

[fixxer]

Russia has more millionaires than the US right now. You must be living in a fisheye lense.

My thoughts about this question, from Europe...

You forget the fact, that the Russian economy depends on the U.S. ....which means that Russia will never start a war against the U.S.

Btw, this conversation is meaningless, as both nations know very well, that a war between these 2 nations would mean a nuclear holocaust, and the end of the world.
Nice talk, that "our missile defense is better", but meaningless...simply when the 1st nuclear weapon will be fired, game over Earth.

So simply this will never happen....

Btw, Russian army and war-technology is greatly underestimated by most people in the US....we are in 2008, not 1980...

[bettilimbroke999]

I just feel lucky pavy is not in charge of the Russian army, that crazy fuk would push the button and destroy US and be celebrating for about 30 minutes til he saw 2000 mushroom clouds outside his front door. Pavy claims to be American but he's the most Russian propaganda speaker I've ever seen. Both countries could destroy and the rest of the world in under an hour, it would make no sense to fight each, neither side could win in a war between Russia/US

[Bullajami]

Also I know a friend who trained Georgian troops, they are trained very well, and most of our troops actually like them. They aren't as good as our spec ops guys, but they did some good out on the Iraq/Iran border which earned them some good will from the guys that served with them out there.

Can't speak about the Georgians, but you definitely do not want to fcuk around with the Azerbaijanis up in Haditha. They do not hesitate to light you up.

[pavyracer]

This is funny...considering the georgians were slaughtering the russian tank advance so they had to go to artillery and bombers/fights to force the gerogians to retreat.

Russians lost 10 planes in the conflict over 40 confirmed tanks.

We airlifted all of the georgian troops in Iraq home already.

Russia is being Russia...and if the US deployed the Navy to the region they would definately be thinking twice. Russia has no answer for the F22 Currently.

Also I know a friend who trained Georgian troops, they are trained very well, and most of our troops actually like them. They aren't as good as our spec ops guys, but they did some good out on the Iraq/Iran border which earned them some good will from the guys that served with them out there.

Russia is using their 1970's antiquidated tanks and the 1970's aircraft against the Georgia army. No need to use T-82 tanks or SU-37 or even S-400 missiles . Why waist all the good stuff on Georgia so that US can spy o the technology. Noone here understands how warfare is done. You are not seen any eRussian elite troops in this war. They are all hidden deep in Russia waiting to be deployed when the US attacks mother Russia.

For those that think that Georgia has an army to defeat Russia is like saying that Cuban navy can defeat US navy in a naval battle off the Florida coast.

Just because I know advance warfare it doesn't mean I'm not American or support Russia or Georgia.

[bettilimbroke999]

Moot point now, Russia has announced a cease fire and is finally acting sane

[pavyracer]

Moot point now, Russia has announced a cease fire and is finally acting sane

That’s how advanced warfare is done. With lightning speed mission is accomplished. The enemy is subdued and thrown out from their advancing positions, the Russian army retreats, teaches them a lesson and waits for next chance to flex its muscles against a more formidable opponent.

[Bullajami]

Noone here understands how warfare is done.

I'm going to have to take exception to that. In my 22nd year of active duty service I better know SOMETHING about modern warfare.

You are not seen any eRussian elite troops in this war. They are all hidden deep in Russia waiting to be deployed when the US attacks mother Russia.

They have special forces, but they probably can't keep them in reserve for decades waiting on US to get feisty. An elite reserve force, specialized to that degree, is an expense they cannot afford.

[Bullajami]

That’s how advanced warfare is done. With lightning speed mission is accomplished. The enemy is subdued and thrown out from their advancing positions, the Russian army retreats, teaches them a lesson and waits for next chance to flex its muscles against a more formidable opponent.

We call it "maneuver to objective". It is billed as "new" but in reality its very old. In the era before artillery armies did this. The English would march on Paris, for example, not consolidating territory behind them to protect logistics lines. No need to, they fought with spears and foraged as they went.

With artillery you needed supply lines to feed the cannons. You had to consolidate territorial gains behind you as you went. You could not forage for gunpowder. It slowed armies down quite a lot, but it was necessary.

Now advanced armies are able to maneuver to objective (i.e. Baghdad or Gori) so rapidly that the required materiel to do the job can be carried by the advancing force. Once again, no need for supply trains. You just have to be certain that once you have secured the objective your enemy is forced to retreat or surrender. If they are strong enough to come around and cut you off, you could be royally fooked.

[pavyracer]

I served in the green berets in the early 90's. As part of our training we had to learn how to use all of Russian made weaponry as well as learn all the different types of tanks, airplanes and missile systems they possess. Some of my comrades own more Russian assault weapons and rifles due to their superiority compared to US made weapons. I have fired an AK-47 and RPG guns as well as driven a T-80 tank and fired from a AAA russian made machine gun. I have more training in russian weaponry than the ones the US army supplied us. Everyone in the green berets knows how powerful the russian weapons are.

[Bullajami]

There's a reason the AK-47 is so popular worldwide. Helluva reliable rifle.

[purecarnagge]

Actually more special forces groups do not use standard issue american weapons due to durability/reliability concerns. SEALS/DELTA Moved away from these ALONG TIME AGO, prob closer to 25 years ago...

Although Delta/Seals get w/e they want when they want for gear.

I never said Georgia was going to defeat Russia. Russia is committing very small part of its forces to this conflict. They are using technology as far as aircraft that most people here would compare to a f-14 or f-15. But still, Georgia is putting up a good accounting of themselves for there size and the fact that the rebels are attacking them as well.

Russia, is about to have the whole international community on them. I'm almost tempted to wonder what would happen if the USA would have sent a carrier task force and 20,000 troops to defend Georgia... Russia knew about our flights for the 2,000 soldiers being returned home, its obvious they don't want to get into a fight with us. Honestly, I think Russia just like flexing its muscle and saying " we are Russia" every so often.

[Bullajami]

I'm almost tempted to wonder what would happen if the USA would have sent a carrier task force and 20,000 troops to defend Georgia...

Geography is against us here. We'd have to get into the Black Sea, and the Turks would have a say on that. The Russians are fairly territorial about the Balck Sea, as well. They'd regard this as a direct provocation, somewhat like we might react if the Russians sailed a carrier into the Gulf of Mexico. We'd also be somewhat vulnerable because of the confined area. Its doable, but complicated.

Honestly, I think Russia just like flexing its muscle and saying " we are Russia" every so often.

I think you are quite right about that.

[durito]

We don't have 20,000 troops we could send.

By the time we did, the war would already be over.

There's a zero percent chance of the US and Russia taking each other on directly.

[pavyracer]

We don't have 20,000 troops we could send.

By the time we did, the war would already be over.

There's a zero percent chance of the US and Russia taking each other on directly.

McCain will go to war with them. There is 50% chance of a war between the US and Russia in the next 10 years.

[durito]

Well there's only a 38% chance of McCain winning, and a 78% of him dying in the next 5 years. So, hopefully we will be safe.

[Panic]

You aint a real navy seal until you've tasted italian steel.

[Gorzy]

I served in the green berets in the early 90's. As part of our training we had to learn how to use all of Russian made weaponry as well as learn all the different types of tanks, airplanes and missile systems they possess. Some of my comrades own more Russian assault weapons and rifles due to their superiority compared to US made weapons. I have fired an AK-47 and RPG guns as well as driven a T-80 tank and fired from a AAA russian made machine gun. I have more training in russian weaponry than the ones the US army supplied us. Everyone in the green berets knows how powerful the russian weapons are.

Stop being a bitch and at least have the ****in balls to show us......

1) you are a kid no more than 12

2) you are an IDIOT

[reno cool]

McCain will go to war with them. There is 50% chance of a war between the US and Russia in the next 10 years.

this would be close to my estimate.

If it was H. Clinton I would've raised to 75%

[Bullajami]

McCain will go to war with them. There is 50% chance of a war between the US and Russia in the next 10 years.

I'll take the under.

[pavyracer]

Stop being a bitch and at least have the ****in balls to show us......

1) you are a kid no more than 12

2) you are an IDIOT

Dude, I'll let your talking do the damage. How many 12 year old american kids can locate the Tajikistan/Kyrgyzstan border on the map or know what's the capital of Tajikistan? I rest my case.

[Bullajami]

The situation is getting more interesting today. Russia appears to have stopped advancing, and now they are going about the business of destroying and/or confiscating Georgian military hardware that they have overrun.

GW is promising humanitarian assistance via US military transport.

NATO is meeting

Condi Rice leaves for France tonight.

McCain is taking the opportunity to look as "Presidential" as possible. Obama can't believe he timed his vacation during this great media-fest.

[pavyracer]

McCain is in trouble here. Whatever he says will be used against him. Obama being on vacation is a plus. Don't need to comment on a no win situation. What will McCain say? That if he was the president he'd send troops to Georgia? They would be slaughtered being at such proximity to Russian ground troops. This is where military commanders know the US can't do anything and whatever presidential candidates say will backfire on them. The only country that the US will fight for is Israel if attacked. Noone else!

[ryanXL977]

this white house is as equipped to handle this situation as any junior high kid

[pavyracer]

McCain is in trouble again as I promised you guys:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_lobbyist

[Bullajami]

More interesting stuff...

KIEV (Reuters) - Pro-Western Ukraine vowed on Thursday to make Russia seek official permission for movements of its warships based in the ex-Soviet state despite Moscow's objections, placing the neighbors on a collision course.

Russia's Black Sea Fleet is based on Ukraine's Crimea peninsula under an agreement signed by the two ex-Soviet states. Kiev's jurisdiction over the area remains a highly sensitive issue among Russian nationalists and in the peninsula dominated by ethnic Russians.

Ukraine's plans for tougher rules on Russian naval moves, announced by President Viktor Yushchenko on Wednesday, are the latest affront to Moscow after Kiev's sharp criticism of its military incursion into Georgia in support of breakaway regions South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Tension between the two states had already been simmering due to Moscow's opposition to Kiev's efforts to join NATO, and past disputes over gas prices and property.

On Thursday, Georgian Chief of Staff Serhiy Kirichenko said Yushchenko's decree would be carried out, no matter what.

"There is a presidential decree and it will, naturally, be implemented," Interfax Ukraine quoted him as saying. "I guarantee that we will do everything to ensure the president's decree is carried out."

Investors priced Ukrainian assets sharply riskier amid concerns over the row with Russia, with the cost of insuring Ukrainian government debt widening sharply.

Yushchenko's decree on Wednesday required the fleet to secure permission for any movements 72 hours in advance.

In Moscow, the deputy head of Russia's general staff dismissed it as irrelevant.

"We have one general commander for the Black Sea fleet. It is the President of Russia," Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said. "And all commands from outside are illegitimate to us."

TENSION

Ukraine's leaders, like the United States, have backed Georgia throughout the conflict and urged Moscow to withdraw troops from its smaller neighbor's territory.

On Thursday, Yushchenko's Website said the president had spoken to U.S. President George W. Bush and praised Washington's "clear and consistent position".

Under the terms of Wednesday's presidential decree, Ukrainian authorities must inform fleet commanders of their consent for the movement of warships and aircraft 24 hours before their scheduled departure.

Should commanders fail to comply with the rules, Ukraine's foreign ministry would be empowered to ask the vessel or aircraft to leave Ukrainian territory.

The conflict in South Ossetia has given rise to suggestions that disagreements between Ukraine and Russia could rekindle tension between the two neighbors over the fleet and Crimea that existed throughout the early post-Soviet years.

Under a 1997 agreement, Ukraine agreed to lease harbor space in the Crimea peninsula base of Sevastopol until 2017.

Yushchenko and other officials say Ukraine has no intention of extending the lease and have called for negotiations to ensure for an orderly departure of the fleet by 2017 -- a position strongly criticized by the Kremlin.

Nationalist Russian politicians regularly suggest that Moscow should reclaim Sevastopol -- or even all of Crimea -- as its own territory.

Crimea, part of Russia from the late 18th century, was handed to Soviet Ukraine by Kremlin leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1954 when the collapse of communism was unthinkable. It reverted to independent Ukraine when Soviet rule collapsed in 1991.

[pavyracer]

I wonder what will Russia do next? Reclaim Alaska from the US suggesting that the 2c/acre the US paid for it did not include the oil deposits discovered later?