are we going to war??

[Cloak & Dagger]

we have a climate control weapon....nobody wants any part of the US

believe that

google H.A.R.R.P.

[pavyracer]

United States is the 7th world power if you know what that is!

US is #1. Russia is #2 but they have enough weapons to defend their country from US attack.

[topgame85]

Haha Russia is the joke of the world more corrupt and destructive then even the USA which is hard to fatham, Russia is the same as 30 years ago they just know how to pretend

[pavyracer]

Haha Russia is the joke of the world more corrupt and destructive then even the USA which is hard to fatham, Russia is the same as 30 years ago they just know how to pretend

Russia has more millionaires than the US right now. You must be living in a fisheye lense.

[topgame85]

It doesn't mean they are not corrupt and have ill gotten gains, during "communist" period in russia there were still rich people those in power were loaded and those involved in illegal/corrupt buisiness were loaded, basically I am trying to say if russia was now longer on the map I would not mind and Georgia should counter russia and invade across the border into russia and fvck shit up, Russia clearly instigated and initiated as well as is currently escalating the conflict

[ZBOIZ]

i hope we just drop the atomic on they ass!

[Cloak & Dagger]

i hope we just drop the atomic on they ass!

H.A.A.R.P.

nobody wants none...unless they want a tsunami on their doorstep

[pavyracer]

This is exactly the same thing that happened in 1961 when the US almost went to war with Soviet Union when they installed nuclear missiles in Cuba. Now the Russians are pissed off because the US wants to install missiles in Georgia threatening their Southern flank. The South Ossetia issue is the excuse. The reason for the conflict is what I told you above.

I'm not picking sides here. I'm just telling you why things are happening.

[Bullajami]

I wouldn't be surprised if they shoot down the US transport planes that are going to airlift the Georgian troops from Iraq.

I think this would be a very bad move by Russia - and I don't think they make very many bad moves of this magnitude. They know we won't do much unless they provoke us. Shooting down our aircraft would be quite provocative.

It does make one stop to consider who all we want to extend defense treaties to. Were Georgia already a member of NATO we would be obligated to defend, no?

[topgame85]

IMO we are already obligated to defend they sent 2,000 troops to fight in out bull shit war in Iraq how can we sit back and watch Russia invade them?

[Tsoprano]

We are at War every day!!!!!!!

Our enemies include Costa Rica, Montego Bay, and Peru.

Everyday we fight a large army, the BOOKS!!!!

[Bullajami]

IMO we are already obligated to defend they sent 2,000 troops to fight in out bull shit war in Iraq how can we sit back and watch Russia invade them?

You are laboring under the misapprehension that ethics plays a part in diplomacy. I recommend getting over that quickly.

[TeamPlayer]

People proposing war on message boards is like somebody online proposing a fist fight knowing that they'll never meet the other person in real life. What a joke.

[Justin7]

Name one country that ever defeated the Russians?

Napoleon?

Hitler?

Bismarck (Germany) in WWI.
France, Great Britain, Italy and the Ottomans in the Crimean war.

[Justin7]

US is #1. Russia is #2 but they have enough weapons to defend their country from US attack.

I'd put China ahead of Russia right now. It's not even close.

[topgame85]

Not necessarily I am 22 year old male I disagree with the war in Iraq but support Afghanistan and wooping Russia's ass and should we be involved in another war guess what chances are I will be meeting them on the battlefield

[pavyracer]

I'd put China ahead of Russia right now. It's not even close.

Russia has enough nuclear weapons (6,681) to destroy every single city in China. China does not have enough nuclear weapons and their army is not as advanced as Russia's.

[pavyracer]

Bismarck (Germany) in WWI.
France, Great Britain, Italy and the Ottomans in the Crimean war.

You are confusing winning a battle with winning a war.

[Cloak & Dagger]

Russia has enough nuclear weapons (6,681) to destroy every single city in China. China does not have enough nuclear weapons and their army is not as advanced as Russia's.

China has more than you think

you make it seem like they arent advanced

wayyyyy more advanced then russia...lets get real here

[pavyracer]

I think this would be a very bad move by Russia - and I don't think they make very many bad moves of this magnitude. They know we won't do much unless they provoke us. Shooting down our aircraft would be quite provocative.

It does make one stop to consider who all we want to extend defense treaties to. Were Georgia already a member of NATO we would be obligated to defend, no?

US does not want to get involved in a war with Russia they know they can't win. US messing in their backyard is what caused this. The Bush policies of stupid diplomacy. He always acts without the military advising him of the country's capabilities. If we could help Georgia we would. The raw truth is that we can't because we can't airlift any troops without all of them being shot down with S-400 anti-aircraft missiles and SU-37 figter jets from Russia. We can defeat Saddam's antiquidated army but we can't touch the balls of the mighty Red Army.

[Bullajami]

Bismarck (Germany) in WWI.

While the German army of WW1 was of Bismarck's making, he was dead before the war started. Germany (Austria-Hungary)were doing well enough in Russia, but never finished the job. Lenin seized power promising to end the war. Germany, hard pressed on their western front was happy to sign an armistice with Russia in December, 1917.

[pavyracer]

China has more than you think

you make it seem like they arent advanced

wayyyyy more advanced then russia...lets get real here

I speak with facts not bullshit like you do:

Nuclear arsenal of Russia

Russia was estimated to have around 6681 active strategic nuclear warheads in its arsenal[1]. Russia also has a large but unknown number of tactical nuclear weapons [1]. Strategic nuclear forces of Russia include [1]:

Land based Strategic Rocket Forces: 489 missiles carrying up to 1,788 warheads; they employ immobile (silos), like SS-18 Satan, and mobile delivery systems, like SS-27 Topol M.
Sea based Strategic Fleet: 12 submarines carrying up to 609 warheads; they employ delivery systems like SS-N-30 Bulava.
Strategic Aviation: 237 bombers(16 Tu-160,63 Tu-95,and 158 Tu-22m) carrying up to 884 Cruise missiles.

Nuclear arsenal of China

The 1984 Defense Intelligence Agency's Defense Estimative Brief estimates the Chinese nuclear stockpile as consisting of between 150 and 160 warheads [3]. A 1993 U.S. National Security Council report estimated that China's nuclear deterrent force relied on 60 to 70 nuclear armed ballistic missiles [4]. The Defense Intelligence Agency's The Decades Ahead: 1999 - 2020 report estimates the 1999 Nuclear Weapons' Inventory as between 140 and 157 [5]. In 2004 the U.S. Department of Defense assessed that China had about 20 intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of targeting the United States [6]. In 2006 a U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency estimate presented to the Senate Armed Services Committee was that "China currently has more than 100 nuclear warheads." [7]

[Cloak & Dagger]

lol...you copy and pasted (takes alot of talent) some reports from 10-25 years ago

Im not saying Russia isnt still one of the super powers of the world

you misread my post

but China is also in that mix...dont kid yourself

[Bullajami]

US does not want to get involved in a war with Russia they know they can't win.

I agree US does not want to get involved here. Not because we can't win, but because we would not be willing to pay the high price Russia would extract for the defense of Georgia.

If we could help Georgia we would. The raw truth is that we can't because we can't airlift any troops without all of them being shot down with S-400 anti-aircraft missiles and SU-37 figter jets from Russia. We can defeat Saddam's antiquidated army but we can't touch the balls of the mighty Red Army.

If it were absolutely necessary, we could suppress their air defenses long enough to get troops in place. We have plenty of long range stand off weapons (CALCM and TLAM) to get that job done. They would put up a better fight than Iraq, but their technology is not better than ours, and we would eventually prevail.

I have to say, though, that it is unlikely it could be done before Russia overruns Georgia. The required assets are not pre-positioned for this task.

[pavyracer]

Nice post Bullajami. I agree with most. How come you don't respond to Cloak & Dagger? His posts are very well thought and articulated.

[Bullajami]

A Russia vs China UFO match would be a good one, but not in either's best interests, so I think it unlikely.

The China question I find interesting is when will they put US allegiance to Taiwan to the test like Russia is putting US allegiance to Georgia to the test?

[BadNina]

Where is the UN in all of this? How come they haven't been hopping up and down? Is there a more useless organization?

[pavyracer]

Where is the UN in all of this? How come they haven't been hopping up and down? Is there a more useless organization?

UN is dead. Noone takes them seriously anymore after the US unilaterally attacked Iraq.

[durito]

Where is the UN in all of this? How come they haven't been hopping up and down?

They are.

The Russians have a permanent seat on the security council (like we do). They can veto any resolution.

[Red_Sux]

one of these days, china, russia, us, uk, and germany should sit down and divide the world into five regions.

[Bullajami]

Where is the UN in all of this? How come they haven't been hopping up and down? Is there a more useless organization?

By the time the competing resolutions are drafted this thing will be over.

UN's best actions will be to supervise security, medical care and food distibution in the refugee camps about to spring up in Armenia and Azerbaijan.

[Cloak & Dagger]

did you see the Bush speech?

"this is unacceptable"

lmfao...like we didnt know and approve of it before hand

hilarious

now I bet he is off to the greens for a little 18 hole

[pavyracer]

By the time the competing resolutions are drafted this thing will be over.

UN's best actions will be to supervise security, medical care and food distibution in the refugee camps about to spring up in Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Actually most of the refugees fled South Ossetia for North Ossetia which belongs to Russia.

[Bullajami]

I think we all need to brace ourselves for the onslaught of disturbing video.

[Bullajami]

Actually most of the refugees fled South Ossetia for North Ossetia which belongs to Russia.

I did see that. But the reports are that the Russian advance continues. I don't think those people go north.