The Soccer Volume At Betfair Is Stunning

[Monte]

at least in soccer you get 90 minutes of almost continuous action

I'd much rather watch that than the thing the Yanks call "football" (in truth a screwed up version of rugby) where there's rarely any contact between ball and foot or even 10 sec of continuous action and 2 minutes of play can take half an hour to complete

The last superbowls i watched have been the most amazing games i ever saw, so iam not sure about that.
No soccer game could get close to that, ever.

[Hareeba!]

so if we accept that normal charge is 5% that means that real volume on this market was 1mln and the rest of 51mln were just trades/bets that were covered. And that was one of the reasons for the Premium charge back in 2008.

"normal charge" for the players who would have contributed most of that turnover would be waaaay below 5% ... probably closer to 2.5%

too many people see Betfair's basic commission rate is 5% and think that's it

if you use them on a regular basis with any sort of volume you should be paying a fair bit less than 5%

[Hareeba!]

The last superbowls i watched have been the most amazing games i ever saw, so iam not sure about that.
No soccer game could get close to that, ever.

what part of what I said are you not sure about?

how many soccer games have you watched?
every sport has some "amazing" games

[johnster]

We are not talking about which is the world's most popular team sport. We all know that is soccer. We are talking about the amount of money bet on it. We are talking about money, not the amount of people who like the game. Why is it so hard to understand? If soccer is still king in this regard, the "U.S. sports" are not that far behind.

in a world where you can say NBA is still king but iranian basketball is not that far behind indeed your post makes a lot of sense

[Tommy_de1st]

Haerrba, don't even try. I just can imagine if someone tried to make me watch baseball
It's about what you like/love

[Hareeba!]

Haerrba, don't even try. I just can imagine if someone tried to make me watch baseball
It's about what you like/love

have I said anything different?
btw .. baseball is the only US sport which I can watch

[Naz18]

The last superbowls i watched have been the most amazing games i ever saw, so iam not sure about that. No soccer game could get close to that, ever.

Liverpool have been in some amazing finals.

[nenad]

nothing big even horse race hit 1 milion matched on bf

[forsberg21]

betfair is amazing in terms of volume, but the u.s 400 million are still richer than china japan india u.k combined, and that is about 2. 5 billion, betfair would love to have american action , although they are doing quite well without it

UNTRUE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_by_GDP_(PPP)

[CHUBNUT]

I know what you do chub but what would you do if the odds went up

Take the sack. Its like betting, as long as your right more times than wrong. I average out winning €60 a week for my outlay of 8-10k.

[KGambler]

in a world where you can say NBA is still king but iranian basketball is not that far behind indeed your post makes a lot of sense

As I mentioned earlier, people love to exaggerate the relative importance of soccer compared to football, baseball and basketball.

The NBA has many thousands of times the revenue of the Iranian league. The NBA has greater revenue than any soccer league in the world. There is a million times more money bet on the NBA than Irananian basketball.

Yeah, your analogy is nothing but a gross exaggeration.

[KGambler]

The top soccer league in the world has a lower average attendance than the CFL. Yes, that's the CANADIAN Football League.

[Jimmy0607]

Lmao where are you getting this info from ??

[KGambler]

Lmao where are you getting this info from ??

LMAO is right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

And we all know La Liga > Premier League

[Naz18]

LMAO is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...sports_leagues And we all know La Liga > Premier League

NBA - 1,230 games
LA Liga - 380 games

And by providing that link you proved that the CFL part is BS.

[KGambler]

NBA - 1,230 games
LA Liga - 380 games

And by providing that link you proved that the CFL part is BS.

Huh? I wasn't talking about NBA attendance. I was talking about CFL attendance. And I was talking about AVERAGE attendance, which means the team with less games should have a higher average.

The link shows that the CFL has a higher average attendance than La Liga, although there are less games played. Go back and reread the chart.

Study it carefully, and you may begin to understand the scope of the U.S. based sports leagues. The NBA, NFL and MLB all have higher revenue than any soccer league in the world. The NFL has double the revenue of any soccer league, despite playing less games.

[constrictor]

Haha

tommy that's a very nice pair of ass

[noyb]

Huh? I wasn't talking about NBA attendance. I was talking about CFL attendance. And I was talking about AVERAGE attendance, which means the team with less games should have a higher average.

The link shows that the CFL has a higher average attendance than La Liga, although there are less games played. Go back and reread the chart.

Study it carefully, and you may begin to understand the scope of the U.S. based sports leagues. The NBA, NFL and MLB all have higher revenue than any soccer league in the world. The NFL has double the revenue of any soccer league, despite playing less games.

maybe you're the one that needs some help studying the chart. Top10: the NFL has average attendance of 68k, Indian Cricket 58k, Bundesliga Soccer 41.8k, Australian Rules 38.4 k, Premier League Soccer 34k, MLB 30k, CFL 29k, La Liga 28k, Japan Baseball 26k and Mexican Soccer 25k
That's 4 soccer leagues in the top 10. Looking further down the list all this goes to show is nobody gives a shit about American Football outside of N-America, and Baseball is really only popular in N-Amerika and Japan. Basketball seems to have done better worldwide but doesn't really get big crowds anywhere but America (but is in fact played on a decent level on several continents, unlike American Football which is basically played nowhere else). Soccer on the other hand has well attended leagues on several continents. In the Top100 there are countless of football leagues from countless of countries. No mention of any US Sports here.

No idea why you would claim La Liga is the biggest soccer league. Claiming it is the biggest while the EPL and Germany have higher attendance really only undermines your own point you can read the popularity of a sport by its attendance. A bit contradictory.

Btw, don't average attendance numbers tell us more about which nation is best at building big stadiums then the actual popularity?

[keops]

NBA - 1,230 games
LA Liga - 380 games

And by providing that link you proved that the CFL part is BS.

This is an old discussion especially between americans and europeans/south americans. Although I can understand why Americans love sports like baseball or hockey, there is no denying soccer is the biggest sport in the world, and therefore is normal the amount of money it moves even in "little games" in Betfair. In Europe any decent punter/trader knows and uses Betfair.

In here there are hardly news about the "american" sports. I'd say the one we most like is basketball (NBA) and you can get a decent amount of information about it. Besides that, nobody knows anything about Hockey or Baseball unless they really like it and search it online. For example, the superbowl that is the "big event" in American Sports hardly is noticed here, most countries don't even announce the winner in the news.

So, I respect other sports but soccer (or football in my country) is the biggest sport in the world and with the most viewers. According to those statistics the NFL is the only league with a biggest attendance than the Premiership what doesn't surprise me because of one factor: the number of seats available. Everyone knows Americans like it big and their stadiums are HUGE. In Europe we struggle a lot to buy a ticket sometimes and can't watch a game because they ran out. The average attendance in the NFL is 68,240 while in the Premiership only Old Trafford has more seats than that, and some stadiums have 1/4 of those seats available . So if you want to compare properly you need to list them considering the world-wide tv viewers or something

[KGambler]

maybe you're the one that needs some help studying the chart. Top10: the NFL has average attendance of 68k, Indian Cricket 58k, Bundesliga Soccer 41.8k, Australian Rules 38.4 k, Premier League Soccer 34k, MLB 30k, CFL 29k, La Liga 28k, Japan Baseball 26k and Mexican Soccer 25k
That's 4 soccer leagues in the top 10.

No, I don't think it's me who needs some help studying the chart. You mention 4 soccer leagues in the top 10. Why is that supposed to be impressive? There are dozens of soccer leagues, right?

There are only two major outdoor sports leagues in the U.S. and those are the two sports which completely dominate the chart. MLB had a 30K average attendance through a whopping 2,431 games, for a 73M total attendance. No other league even drew 25M fans. The Japanese baseball league is 2nd in total attendance.

OK, you want to go with average attendance because there are too many baseball games? NFL is #1 in average attendance and it is not even close. Then you have the CFL (Canadian Football League LOL), which is ahead of every soccer league except the EPL and Bundesliga.

And 4 of the 100 soccer leagues being in the top 10 is supposed to be impressive? It's not impressive, it's shameful.

Looking further down the list all this goes to show is nobody gives a shit about American Football outside of N-America, and Baseball is really only popular in N-Amerika and Japan. Basketball seems to have done better worldwide but doesn't really get big crowds anywhere but America (but is in fact played on a decent level on several continents, unlike American Football which is basically played nowhere else). Soccer on the other hand has well attended leagues on several continents. In the Top100 there are countless of football leagues from countless of countries. No mention of any US Sports here.

OK, the problem here is that you don't know anything about U.S. sports, while I do know at least a little bit about soccer. It makes the debate so uneven as to be a waste of time. Baseball is played in many countries besides Japan and the U.S., which just happen to be the two largest economies in the world (unless you believe the recent BS about China passing Japan, in which case they are 1 and 3). It is popular in several Asian countries (for example, Korea). It is popular throughout much of Latin America, where it ranges from a national obsession to a regional sport. For example, a team in Northern Mexico has averaged over 17K attendance per game (Mexican League Baseball LOL). It is played in Canada and Australia. It is an international sport. No, it is not nearly as widespread as soccer, but then no other team sport is.

No idea why you would claim La Liga is the biggest soccer league. Claiming it is the biggest while the EPL and Germany have higher attendance really only undermines your own point you can read the popularity of a sport by its attendance. A bit contradictory.

I didn't say they were the biggest league. I said they were the "top" league, meaning they feature the highest level of play. Regardless, the mighty EPL has equally unimpressive attendance.

I did not say that the popularity of a sport is measured by its attendance. I have already said that soccer is the most popular sport. That is not the point. I was mentioning the attendance and revenue to show that people who think comparing the financial muscle of US sports to soccer is akin to comparing the NBA to the Iranian basketball league. I showed that based upon attendance, and more importantly revenue (where MLB and NFL are king), the US leagues represent the whales while typical soccer leagues represent the plankton. OK, the total bio-mass of the plankton is greater. I get that.

Btw, don't average attendance numbers tell us more about which nation is best at building big stadiums then the actual popularity?

Only if Europeans hate money. Hint: Europeans don't hate money.

You should see the crowds for amateur football games. They sell out 110K seat stadiums each week for schools like Ohio State University. Just this weekend 113K people watched a friggin college hockey game in Michigan stadium. There are a lot of sports fans here in the US, clearly many more than in Europe. The revenues of the NFL, MLB, NBA and even NHL put almost every soccer league to shame. I know you have that small cadre of die hards who attack opposing fans, burn down orphanages, etc., and they get all of the press, but the typical European is obviously not much of a sports fan or else you would have many big time leagues over there.

Now that we have all of that settled, back to the original point... A guy makes a post which suggests that there is more wagering on EPL games than NFL games. A bunch of people who know nothing about American sports chime in "Well of course that's true, didn't you dumbass Americans realize that only Americans follow NFL but the whole world loves soccer?" The problem I have is not with the idea that soccer is more popular worldwide than any of the "American sports". That much is obvious. The problem I have is that people who have no clue what they are talking about are acting as if it is a foregone conclusion that the EPL has more money wagered on it, because the EPL is so spectactularly popular worldwide. NO, THE NFL PLAYS LESS GAMES AND HAS DOUBLE THE ******* REVENUE. It is not at all obvious which league should have more money wagered on its games, despite the supposed popularity of the EPL in poverty stricken nations across the globe.

If there is more wagering on EPL, the reason would be the legal status of gambling in the UK/Europe compared to in the US. But I don't even believe that there is more money wagered on EPL games, because most betting in the US is done through underground bookies (not online or in Vegas). So no, it is not obvious that the EPL should have more money wagered on its games. And it is definitely not obvious that the worldwide popularity of soccer means the EPL is so much bigger than any US sports league, because the NFL destroys the EPL revenue wise. So I guess the EPL really doesn't garner that much income from its popularity in Zimbabwe.

By the way, I lived in South America for over a year. They show MLB, NBA and NFL there on a regular basis. Of course, they also have like 7 soccer games on at any given time.

[KGambler]

This is an old discussion especially between americans and europeans/south americans. Although I can understand why Americans love sports like baseball or hockey, there is no denying soccer is the biggest sport in the world, and therefore is normal the amount of money it moves even in "little games" in Betfair. In Europe any decent punter/trader knows and uses Betfair.

In here there are hardly news about the "american" sports. I'd say the one we most like is basketball (NBA) and you can get a decent amount of information about it. Besides that, nobody knows anything about Hockey or Baseball unless they really like it and search it online. For example, the superbowl that is the "big event" in American Sports hardly is noticed here, most countries don't even announce the winner in the news.

So, I respect other sports but soccer (or football in my country) is the biggest sport in the world and with the most viewers. According to those statistics the NFL is the only league with a biggest attendance than the Premiership what doesn't surprise me because of one factor: the number of seats available. Everyone knows Americans like it big and their stadiums are HUGE. In Europe we struggle a lot to buy a ticket sometimes and can't watch a game because they ran out. The average attendance in the NFL is 68,240 while in the Premiership only Old Trafford has more seats than that, and some stadiums have 1/4 of those seats available . So if you want to compare properly you need to list them considering the world-wide tv viewers or something

Agreed, but being the most viewed sport in the world does not equal having the most money wagered on that sport. Many of the soccer viewers simply have no money. As in soul-crushingly, desperately poverty stricken... The revenue of the US sports leagues crushes the top European leagues, and it's not close. So let's not jump to the conclusion that the OMG worldwide popularity of soccer means the amount bet on EPL games will dwarf the amount bet on NFL games. I don't see any reason to believe more money is wagered on the EPL.

[fury]

Of course more money is wagered on Premier League games. They advertise books during games and gambling is accepted there.

[KGambler]

Of course more money is wagered on Premier League games. They advertise books during games and gambling is accepted there.

If it is true that more is wagered on the EPL, than IMO this would have to be the reason. The popularity of soccer worldwide, and the EPL's popularity specifically, do not seem like valid reasons because the NFL generates so much more revenue than the EPL. Don't underestimate the volume that illegal bookies do here in the US though.

If sports betting were legal in the US, the average game volume would be several times larger than that of any soccer league. I can't imagine what it would be like if sports betting were legal and there was advertising for it during every game. Someday maybe I can live in a free country.

[Naz18]

KGambler your totally not thinking about this right. The US has a population of 300 million and the NFL has 30 teams. Almost all of the European countries have their own leagues and obviously have much smaller population then the US. So bringing revenues into the discussion is pointless. You keep mentioning the revenue of the NFL but how can you relate that to money being gambled that makes no sense. Your opinion of over countries is very weak, probably because all you know about these countries is looking up the economy and not standard of living. Yes America has a good economy compared to the rest of the world but the money is mostly tied to the top 1%.

[johnster]

If sports betting were legal in the US, the average game volume would be several times larger than that of any soccer league. I can't imagine what it would be like if sports betting were legal and there was advertising for it during every game. Someday maybe I can live in a free country.

you are missing the point you must add all the world soccer leagues together as we are comparing soccer volume betting to usa sports

doing that ofcourse 300 mill people can't bet more or be close behind as the rest of the world has LEGALISED BETTING and you can bet on just about everywhere(gas station,post office,betting shop..)


and must say i eagerly await for your next "argument" in this debate while i am busy connecting your "size of usa stadiums" with betting volume

[Tommy_de1st]

tommy that's a very nice pair of ass

Oh, I love her from dawn to dusk

[JOHON8]

Corruption goes where the money is.

Even for me it was hard to believe that the EPL would have corruption in it. But there is tons of it going on and most of the energy is going into hiding that corruption. You don't get this kind of volume on games without people being paid off to bury the public, whether it be the coaches, referees, players... all they have to do is make it look like a mistake.

[jw]

Corruption goes where the money is.

Even for me it was hard to believe that the EPL would have corruption in it. But there is tons of it going on and most of the energy is going into hiding that corruption. You don't get this kind of volume on games without people being paid off to bury the public, whether it be the coaches, referees, players... all they have to do is make it look like a mistake.

Nothing at all to do with corruption .. it is about trading ... 90% of the money you see on betfair is trading money .. they are buying and selling pips just like you would in stock markets ... several hundred dollars at a time .. buy .. wait for the price to jump or drop one pip - from 1.28 to 1.27 or from 3.22 to 3.23 and then sell .... pocket the $10-$20 and repeat ...

The mass volume has nothing at all to do with casual punters trying to pick a team to win .. or even less to do with corruption .. it is all about the trading.

[jjgold]

Some really good points here

Why is $600 USD not $600 USD as far as money matched??

I do not get it

[Hareeba!]

Some really good points here

Why is $600 USD not $600 USD as far as money matched??

I do not get it

for simplicity say the odds are evens

I put in an ask for $600 Team A
You accept my bet in full

You've bet $600
I've bet $600
Betfair says $1200 matched

[KGambler]

and must say i eagerly await for your next "argument" in this debate while i am busy connecting your "size of usa stadiums" with betting volume

OK, so you're not impressed that despite the supposed extreme popularity of soccer in Europe, the top league in France can't even average 2/3 of the attendance of the CANADIAN Football League. I guess France hasn't learned how to build stadiums that can house over 20K people yet? Tell me, is that what is going on? Ligue 1 averages an anemic 20K a game because Europe has smaller stadiums? Do they play soccer indoors in France? Even the pathetic MLS averages 16K a game - and no, they don't have huge stadiums.

How about you address the revenue disparity then?

The NFL has double the revenue of the EPL, or any other soccer league in the entire world. How does that fact square with the idea espoused that "Of course the EPL has more money wagered on it, the EPL is beloved all over the world where as only Americans love football." Can we agree that I have thoroughly destroyed that particular argument, which in the absence of any facts was being espoused as the conventional wisdom?

The NFL, NBA, and MLB are the top 3 revenue producing sports leagues in the world. The NHL is 5th! So how many puny soccer leagues do we have to add together before the plankton outweigh the whales?

When you consider these FACTS, then IF it is true that more money is bet on a typical EPL game compared to a typical NFL game, then it definitely has to do with the ease and acceptability of gambling in the UK, not on the relative popularity of the two sports. Soccer is much more popular worldwide, and yet the money is just not there in the same way.

[protein]

What a joke. How big you´d want your dick to be all you "US and the rest of the world" guys?

Here is just some real classic posts that we here in Old World use to make fun of you.

Just because you can´t bet every online bookie you do not have to smash the no 1 sports here. Get on the plane and come and see what betting means.

Peace!

[jjgold]

for simplicity say the odds are evens

I put in an ask for $600 Team A
You accept my bet in full

You've bet $600
I've bet $600
Betfair says $1200 matched

ok sounds good


They had like 30 million today on Soccer game in England

[KGambler]

What a joke. How big you´d want your dick to be all you "US and the rest of the world" guys?

Here is just some real classic posts that we here in Old World use to make fun of you.

Just because you can´t bet every online bookie you do not have to smash the no 1 sports here. Get on the plane and come and see what betting means.

Peace!

I understand that many Europeans have a severe inferiority complex when it comes to discussing such things. However, it's only your extreme sensitivity to such matters that leads you to believe that this is a US versus the rest of the world discussion. It was just supposed to be about the "incredible" volume being bet on EPL games in comparison to NFL games.

We are discussing the relative betting volumes on different sports. There is nothing in that discussion which should lead to claims on "bragging rights" or superiority. Many Europeans, undoubtedly spurred on by intense feelings of inferiority and rage, came in with the old "Of course more money is bet on the EPL, you ignorant American fools, didn't you realize soccer is many times more popular than any of your stupid sports?". I have used facts and figures to show that this is actually a very ignorant way to look at the question. Meanwhile, the other side uses no facts and no figures, and just says stupid shit like "hop on a plane and come see how we do betting in the Old World!".

OK, I have said everything that needs to be said on this topic. All of the facts are on my side. If more money is bet on the EPL, it probably has more to do with the accessability of betting on the games than on soccer's worldwide popularity. Once again, that is a pretty big IF. Personally, I am not at all convinved. Most betting in the US is done with underground bookies.

The other side has provided no facts, just wild claims and ridiculous analogies about Iranian basketball. They willfully ignored the facts, for example pretending that Ligue 1 draws only 20K fans a game due to Europe having smaller stadiums, etc. It's pointless to continue.

[davidchong]

they play for the cents........ back at 2.20 and then lay for 2.10 (+.10), that its why those number are impressive. every morning, each race on horses its around 800k to 3million on normal races and big races near to 10 millions by race...