1. #71
    zizoudane10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Profits View Post
    And nobody "dropped the ball", this has been the industry standard forever, it pops up a couple of times per year and yet it is rather amazing that so many people STILL do not know the rule.

  2. #72
    InTheDrink
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Profits View Post
    And nobody "dropped the ball", this has been the industry standard forever, it pops up a couple of times per year and yet it is rather amazing that so many people STILL do not know the rule.
    And every single fukkin time they blame the system when they don't know what the fuk they're talking about

  3. #73
    shari91
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheDrink View Post
    And every single fukkin time they blame the system when they don't know what the fuk they're talking about
    Just feel sympathy for the CS reps having to answer these calls from supposed big bettors who know all sports. I couldn't imagine some of the hilarious calls they'll be getting today. Guys with accounts for 5 years+ and they still don't have a clue about the rules of the sport they're betting. It's not like they're hidden... READ THEM!!! Fricken Pinny has the same rule ffs

  4. #74
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheDrink View Post
    lol

    so what if the game was 2-2...you never answered that....should the under win and the over lose?
    Unless the Over/Under was 3.5 then it should not be graded. I think you're missing something here. Go back and reread all my posts and notice the word IMPOSSIBLE. When a score is 2-2 the final score could end up 13-12 OR it could end up 3-2. Meaning that BOTH the Over OR the Under could still occur. When a score is 7-7 it is IMPOSSIBLE(notice this word again) for the Under to occur. Does this make sense yet?

  5. #75
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Profits View Post
    In The Drink explained it best.

    If they paid out Overs and refunded Unders, bettors would have an added edge by betting the Over in any game that had a dubious weather forecast.
    First off.... they should not pay Overs and refund Unders. Overs should be graded as Wins and Unders should be graded as Losses. As it is right now bettors have an added edge by betting the Under in any game that has a dubious weather forecast because they can always hope that their game gets suspended or postponed. Even when the Over hits they still get their money back if it rains.

  6. #76
    stevenash
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    That's been the rule for 1000 years, sucks, but every total player must know going in that a total wager must go 8.5 innings.
    Listen, I had major coin on the over in that Pitt game too, I don't like accpeting the push, but rules are rules.
    Like Drinker said, if it was 1-1 and the game was called, and you were on the over, you'd be doing the jig.
    It all evens out in the end though if you gamble long enough.

    @John above me, your point is valid, and makes sense, but the powers that be will never change the total rules.

    How many times has an overtime saved your over bets in foots?
    Same principle.
    People don't complain when you are sitting on an over 43.5 total in a NCAA football game, and it's 21-21 at the end of regulation.

    What's the great Michael Hutchens INXS line "sometimes you kick, and sometimes you get kicked"

  7. #77
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    First off.... they should not pay Overs and refund Unders. Overs should be graded as Wins and Unders should be graded as Losses. As it is right now bettors have an added edge by betting the Under in any game that has a dubious weather forecast because they can always hope that their game gets suspended or postponed. Even when the Over hits they still get their money back if it rains.
    I'd guess it should be calculated into the lines, but that could easily create a statistically significant edge if enough games are postponed.

    Anyone with a baseball database able to tell us what % of games this happens to?

  8. #78
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by unluckysob View Post
    Who grades props before completion of game?---No book I ever played at.
    What books do you play at? BetOnline does for sure. I'm nearly certain that Heritage does. I'm nearly certain that 5Dimes does. I'm pretty sure Bovada does. I actually think it's a good thing when Books do this when it is impossible for the result to be changed. If you have Under 2.5 Receptions on a Receiver and he already has 3 Receptions why should the Book wait until the game is over to grade your wager? It's already going to be a Win or Loss regardless of what happens in the rest of the game.

  9. #79
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    First off.... they should not pay Overs and refund Unders. Overs should be graded as Wins and Unders should be graded as Losses. As it is right now bettors have an added edge by betting the Under in any game that has a dubious weather forecast because they can always hope that their game gets suspended or postponed. Even when the Over hits they still get their money back if it rains.
    The problem is if the game with a total of 8.5 is 5-3 when the game is suspended what will the book do? Refund both under and over totals? Game can easily go over or stay under with only a couple innings left.
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    First off.... they should not pay Overs and refund Unders. Overs should be graded as Wins and Unders should be graded as Losses. As it is right now bettors have an added edge by betting the Under in any game that has a dubious weather forecast because they can always hope that their game gets suspended or postponed. Even when the Over hits they still get their money back if it rains.
    No, I meant grade plays if the game went Over (Over wins, Under loses) and give refunds on games that are still Under. THAT gives Over players a freeroll if they expect a shortened game.

  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    That's been the rule for 1000 years, sucks, but every total player must know going in that a total wager must go 8.5 innings.
    Listen, I had major coin on the over in that Pitt game too, I don't like accpeting the push, but rules are rules.
    Like Drinker said, if it was 1-1 and the game was called, and you were on the over, you'd be doing the jig.
    It all evens out in the end though if you gamble long enough.

    @John above me, your point is valid, and makes sense, but the powers that be will never change the total rules.

    How many times has an overtime saved your over bets in foots?
    Same principle.
    People don't complain when you are sitting on an over 43.5 total in a NCAA football game, and it's 21-21 at the end of regulation.

    What's the great Michael Hutchens INXS line "sometimes you kick, and sometimes you get kicked"
    Like I said before, when the score is 1-1 the result is still in question. In this case all wagers should be cancelled. When the score is 7-7 the outcome is not in question. The Overs should be graded as Wins and the Unders should be graded as Losses. As far as overtimes go... the result is still in question. I would only be mad if I had Over 40.5 and the game was 21-21 and went into Overtime and in Overtime they cancelled the game because of bad weather and therefore graded my wager as a Push. Would that make sense?

  12. #82
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Profits View Post
    No, I meant grade plays if the game went Over (Over wins, Under loses) and give refunds on games that are still Under. THAT gives Over players a freeroll if they expect a shortened game.
    As it is right now Under players have a freeroll if they expect a shortened game. Any chance of rain? Just bet the Under!!! Even if the score is 12-11 in the first inning you can still get a push!

  13. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post

    The problem is if the game with a total of 8.5 is 5-3 when the game is suspended what will the book do? Refund both under and over totals? Game can easily go over or stay under with only a couple innings left.
    Why is that a problem? International books do what the bettors in this thread that didn't know the Vegas rule assumed would be the case.

    From Bet365

    Game Total, Team Totals, 3-Way Totals and Alternative Game Totals - Subject to 8 innings rule EXCEPT where the total has already gone over, (if total has already gone over the quoted total, then bets on the over will be settled as winners, with bets on the under settled as losers) or where the natural conclusion of the game would have meant the outcome of the total quoted would be determined, e.g. MLB game is called, or suspended at 5-5, bets on Game Totals of Over 10 or 10.5 would be settled as winners, with bets on Under 10 or 10.5 being settled as losers, since any natural conclusion to the match would have at least 11 runs.

  14. #84
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbowl3056 View Post
    I bet at 5dimes, I had the over as well as the Reds... my Reds bet got cancelled, but my over bet is still pending... any chance they count it a winner? I feel like if they were going to cancel it they would have done so already
    Much praise to 5Dimes. I wish I would have had my bet there instead. Let me know if you get it graded as a win.

  15. #85
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon2012 View Post
    I'm with bet365 and they have counted this as a win
    This Book has it right. I only wish I could play there.
    Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 04-15-14 at 04:17 PM.

  16. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    As it is right now Under players have a freeroll if they expect a shortened game. Any chance of rain? Just bet the Under!!! Even if the score is 12-11 in the first inning you can still get a push!
    No there is no freeroll now because everything is a refund. There is no edge at all in betting any total if you expect a shortened game., Your way, only the Over could possibly win.

  17. #87
    Kaabee
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    As it is right now Under players have a freeroll if they expect a shortened game. Any chance of rain? Just bet the Under!!! Even if the score is 12-11 in the first inning you can still get a push!
    the problem with this is that half of your pushes would have ended up winning.

  18. #88
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    Much praise to 5Dimes. I wish I would have had my bet there instead. Let me know if you get it graded as a win.
    38717241-1 4/14/14 2:59pm $220.00 $200.00 $220.00 Cancelled 4/14/14 7:10pm Reduced Baseball 905 Pittsburgh Pirates/Cincinnati Reds Over 7 -110* (W Rodriguez - L must Start H Bailey - R must Start)

  19. #89
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaabee View Post
    the problem with this is that half of your pushes would have ended up winning.
    How? If the Over has already occurred how can you Win a bet that you bet the Under on? Do runs magically get erased in some games?

  20. #90
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    5 Dimes finally got around to refunding all totals.

  21. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    How? If the Over has already occurred how can you Win a bet that you bet the Under on? Do runs magically get erased in some games?
    who cares about games where the over has already occurred. what matters is ALL of your bets. if you play the rain card, half of your bets that get cancelled would have ended up winning.
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  22. #92
    JohnGalt2341
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    Quick question for everyone. Lets say you bet Over 40.5 on an NFL game. At halftime the score is 24-21. Do you think it would be a good thing or bad thing for the Books to grade the Over/Under wagers before the game is over?

  23. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    Quick question for everyone. Lets say you bet Over 40.5 on an NFL game. At halftime the score is 24-21. Do you think it would be a good thing or bad thing for the Books to grade the Over/Under wagers before the game is over?
    Same principles apply...A game must go 55 minutes for it to be considered an official game...I see what you are saying and I feel ya but dems da breaks!...here is Heritage's disclaimer and rules concerning football:


    • Any postponed, suspended, or rescheduled events will be considered no action. Overtime periods are counted in the final score of both college and professional games. For second-half wagers, overtime is included as part of the second-half for sides and totals wagers. Overtime is not included on wagers for fourth quarter sides or totals. For wagering purposes the game must go at least 55 minutes of play.
    • If play is suspended before the completion of 55 minutes and not resumed the same day, all bets on the full game will be graded as no action and all monies refunded. If part of the game has finished (i.e. first quarter, first half, second quarter, or third quarter) those bets will be graded as action, provided the entire period has finished.

  24. #94
    MiDNiTe
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    my book grades it after 5 innings if total has gone over but if other books arnt paying maybe theyll change their rules doesnt bother me i hardly ever play overs/unders

  25. #95
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    So I bet on the Pirates ML Monday (game 1), game was played, suspended until the next day, Pirates win. (The next day; game 1). And I don't get paid.

    Have to love gambling.

  26. #96
    pavyracer
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    This also happens in soccer. Games are abandoned due to fan violence, a couple weeks ago in Sweden, and all bets were voided. It's good for the bettor to have bets voided if the game is not completed even if a total has theoretically went over before the game ended.
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  27. #97
    MiDNiTe
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    my bet use to be refunded for that pork chop but now my book pays out probably because of complaints, books in usa total different rules than where im from

  28. #98
    LT Profits
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiDNiTe View Post
    my book grades it after 5 innings if total has gone over but if other books arnt paying maybe theyll change their rules doesnt bother me i hardly ever play overs/unders
    Books won't change their rules because they follow Vegas standard. Do you play at a Euro or a local?

  29. #99
    MiDNiTe
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    aus books

  30. #100
    MiDNiTe
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    ok my book paid out the over but i dont think after 5inns just checked and and unders loses il look for the rules

  31. #101
    InTheDrink
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt2341 View Post
    Unless the Over/Under was 3.5 then it should not be graded. I think you're missing something here. Go back and reread all my posts and notice the word IMPOSSIBLE. When a score is 2-2 the final score could end up 13-12 OR it could end up 3-2. Meaning that BOTH the Over OR the Under could still occur. When a score is 7-7 it is IMPOSSIBLE(notice this word again) for the Under to occur. Does this make sense yet?


    so have you acknowledged yet that this gives a significant edge to over bettors in dodgy weather as LT has pointed out? how do you suppose the books feel about that?

  32. #102
    MiDNiTe
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    btw isnt the rule if a bet is suspended for 1 day bet is still valid more than one day bets void?

  33. #103
    Cookie Monster
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    I can see both sides of the issue. How to deal with suspended games? Two logical ways:
    a) If the bet is already decided, consider it win/loss. If not, cancel.
    b) If game has not reached a minimum, all bets are cancelled.
    I am leaving out the possibility of counting the resume the game in any time, as it would open a can of worms. Between the two listed choices, the first looks more logical. Certainly, the over may have a very slight edge, but it would be very easy to factor in the price.


    I understand the logic of current Las Vegas rule, just think that for trying to be fair (not alowing advantage to over on suspended games) they end looking unfair on this cases.


    BTW, the same happens with 2-legs teasers. Las Vegas rule is "push reduce, in 2 legs, a push in one leg means push of entire bet, irregardless of result of the other leg". (Some unfair books grade push-loss as loss). For me, the most fair rule in 2 team teasers when one leg pushes is revert it to a "1-team teaser", paying -262 if wins. Of course, that line cannot be offered openly, but in the rare case of pushes it is fair.

  34. #104
    LT Profits
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiDNiTe View Post
    btw isnt the rule if a bet is suspended for 1 day bet is still valid more than one day bets void?
    Not for MLB in USA except for post-season, where bets carry over for as long as it takes.

  35. #105
    MiDNiTe
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    ok cheers man

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