If Health Care Bill Passes This Country Is Fukked

[jjgold]

1. No one will work because no motivation to get health coverage by working
2. Small Companies will not give benefits and pay the 8% penalty and let gov't pick up costs
3. Minorities will pour into Country to get free coverage
4. Unemployment will surge

We are fukked

[Robyn]

Let's move to Russia.

[durito]

yes everyone will quit their jobs immediately

[paco]

Everyone should have free medical.

[SportNut]

I won't be quitting my job...need money to pay and wager on football....

[Willie Bee]

[Karayilan9]

JJ for President

[jjgold]

#1 motivation to have a job is benefits for family, if gov't picks up coverage the motivation to work will greatly be reduced and therefore unemployment will surge.

[Karayilan9]

JJ give a presidential speech

[Willie Bee]

1. No one will work because no motivation to get health coverage by working

Wrong. The employer-provided health care coverage has been on the VERY sharp decline for a while now. It was absolute the nuts when I first started to work fulltime back in the 70s, the perks for health care and pensions were aces. Hasn't been that way for a while and I'll stand by my claim that if anyone's motivation to get a job is just for health care only, then they're lazy sonsabitches to begin with.

2. Small Companies will not give benefits and pay the 8% penalty and let gov't pick up costs

How small? Like under 50 employees small? Funny, I believe I know of a company first-hand that this theory does not apply to. My wife's company is in the 150-175 fulltime employee range, and even after cutting agents (including my wife) back to a 32-hr work week this summer and adjusting salaries accordingly, they still offer everyone the same health care coverage.

3. Minorities will pour into Country to get free coverage

Oh good lord, JJ. 'Minorities' -- including your ancestors -- have been pouring into this country and onto this land for several hundred years now.

4. Unemployment will surge

If everything you said in points 1-3 are indeed true, I will take Point No. 4 as your summation.

We are fukked

My summation is...

[pdx107]

i strongly disagree
health care for all, period

[jjgold]

Willy you do not know what is going on in the real world, all your worried about is smoking a pipe and producing honey from your bees hives.

Willy your not a City slicker like me

[clonecat]

Spot on JJ

[MartinBlank]

JJ are you drunk?

Are you actually saying Americans are going to quit their job?

I can see it now....Americans are going to walk off their jobs just so they can go to their family doctor....the hell with money to live....thank god they can get their gout looked at.

[SilversunPickups]

I'm confused with all this health care coverage stuff. If this passes, can you choose to use private companies or do you HAVE to use the government plan?

I know good doctors won't be working for the government on lower salaries so the private plans should have way better doctors and equipment.

I used a county hospital one time and it felt like I was in a 3rd world country. They didn't even use paper on the exam beds between patients. It was disgusting. And there was one doctor trying to look at over 20 people in the ER. The wait was a good 8 hours.

No thanks to government health care if this is how I'm understanding it.

[RogueJuror]

coach do a video directed at Obama.

[daggerkobe]

those of us who watched the documentary "Sicko".......... know the truth.

The only ones opposing a national healthcare are the greedy insurance companies that put profit over our well-being. They literally condemn thousands of sick people to their deaths every year by denying coverages.

Again, watch "Sicko" if u want to learn the truth.

[flyingillini]

Obama is the worst thing that has happened to this Country in many years.

[bettilimbroke999]

yes everyone will quit their jobs immediately

Agreed, if ppl have access to medical care they will never work again, nothing but healthy ppl living on park benches around the country, its not like ppl work for anything other than health coverage like a paycheck

[Deuce]

JJ is spot on for once.

[durito]

JJ is spot on for once.

clueless as always i see

nice to see you around deuce

[ATB515]

obviously you didn't even watch his address. You just tuned into fox news after it was over

[DwightShrute]

Sicko wasn't 100% factual- far from it

That fat fvck is a liar and a hypocrite.

[DwightShrute]

Promises that a new health care plan will be deficit neutral are ridiculous. The government’s cost estimates are about as accurate as ACORN’s tax advice. This illustration, from my book “Arguing with Idiots,” shows the government’s estimate of Medicare costs in 1990 vs. what it actually cost. It’s clear they were either dangerously inept or outright lying to us. Unfortunately, I’m not sure which is worse… Glenn Beck

[ATB515]

Republicans can't stand Michael Moore because he delivers the truth.

Sicko wasn't 100% factual- far from it

That fat fvck is a liar and a hypocrite.

[daggerkobe]

What wasnt factual about Sicko?

All I ever hear from neonitwits is how fugly Moore is but never any factual rebuttals about his movie.

But thats how they operate, when they cant dispute facts, go to plan B: call them fat and ugly.

[durito]

i'm not sure what medicare has to do with this, well except that they'd like to fix it so it costs less

[ATB515]

bingo

What wasnt factual about Sicko?

All I ever hear from neonitwits is how fugly Moore is but never any factual rebuttals about his movie.

But thats how they operate, when they cant dispute facts, go to plan B: call them fat and ugly.

[Robyn]

Wait. Willie smokes a pipe?

[DwightShrute]

what was factual about it?

Dear Friends:

Michael Moore ends the movie "Sicko" with a lie. It may not be an intentional lie, but it is a falsehood, nonetheless. Michael Moore ends the movie saying that every European country offers "free" health coverage to their citizens and every European country provides such coverage through a "single payer" system.

Both statements are untrue. It is a sad commentary on the pathetically, uninformed state of the health care policy debate in America that health care journalists and American political leaders do not simply know that both of the statements are untrue and that they have not responded clearly and quickly to correct the error.

So what makes these statements untrue? Reality. Most European countries directly charge their citizens for their health coverage. It is not "free" anywhere. Some nations require people to buy coverage from health insurance companies that look very much like American health insurance companies. Other countries use a payroll tax on everyone's paycheck to pay for health coverage. In those countries, each citizen pays a portion of their weekly paycheck for health insurance - - just like our Social Security payroll deduction. In Germany, each employee pays 7 percent of each paycheck for health care and each employer matches that 7 percent. People also can spend additional money to buy better coverage.

The government of the Netherlands takes 9 percent of a worker's paycheck every week to purchase health coverage - - it's hard to figure out how Michael Moore can legitimately call such a payroll deduction "free."

Also, when the government of the Netherlands deducts that 9 percent, or when Germany deducts their 14 percent -- they do not use, as Mr. Moore incorrectly claims, a "single payer system" like Canada to provide the actual health insurance for each citizen. Each of those countries has multiple health plans - or "sickness funds" -- that people choose among. Citizens of Switzerland and the Netherlands choose between competing health plans to purchase their coverage.

So "Sicko" ends with a double lie: Coverage in Europe is not "free," nor is it provided through a pure, Canadian-like single payer system. "Sicko" either deliberately misleads us or is unintentionally wrong.

Each country in Europe has found its own unique path to universal coverage. Switzerland has no government health program at all. Everyone in Switzerland is required to purchase from one of nearly 100 competing insurance companies. (The Swiss government pays for coverage for the poor.)

What about France - - a country Michael Moore described as Eden in "Sicko?" The government uses a sales tax approach and uses that money to buy a basic (not comprehensive) package of coverage for about 80 percent of the French people. The basic government benefit coverage is somewhat incomplete, however, so 92 percent of the people in France now purchase additional private insurance to fill in the 20 - 40 percent gap in various parts of their government benefits. About 20 percent of the French people skip the government program completely and purchase only private coverage. In either case, the coverage isn't free and is not handled through a Canadian single-payer model.

It's unclear from the movie whether Mr. Moore knows that he is not telling the truth about Europe's health care systems, or whether he is still low on a learning curve relative to health care financing and delivery. The learning curve seems pretty steep. He criticizes the U.S. government Medicare drug benefit in "Sicko," and he claims with some passion that the Canadians handle drug coverage much better. So how does the Canadian government actually handle drug coverage? Seven out of eight provinces do not cover non-hospital drug costs for anyone other than low income seniors. The federal government does not cover anyone.

People in those seven Canadian provinces might actually prefer the American Medicare system of partial coverage (favored by over 80 percent of enrollees), which Mr. Moore seems to sneer at in the movie. American Medicare drug coverage can have a "donut hole" in the middle. Seven of eight Canadian provinces skip the donut and give the citizens only the hole.

"Sicko" also tells the story of a Canadian on a golf vacation in Florida to illustrate the alleged superiority of the Canadian insurance and care delivery system because - - Mr. Moore claims in the movie - - the Canadian actually rushed home to Canada when he needed health care rather than getting that care in Florida. A valuable piece of information that "Sicko" conveniently does not mention at that point is that the Canadian government health coverage does not travel. Americans who are insured almost always have health coverage that covers at least emergencies whenever we travel. Canadians, however, have such long backlogs for care in so many places that the Canadian government benefit program can't afford to let people simply leave Canada to access care elsewhere. So the Canadian system that Mr. Moore so eagerly advocates decided not to let its health care benefits "travel" outside of Canada. Canadians in Florida, therefore, actually do return to Canada for care when they can... not because they don't think Americans deliver quality care, rather because their government does not cover care in America.

Again, it's not clear if Mr. Moore is low on the learning curve on that point, or more directly duplicitous. We will probably learn which statement is true as the debate progresses.

There are rumors Mr. Moore offers $10,000 rewards for anyone who can prove that any point in his movies is untrue. Since he says that "every" country in Europe uses the Canadian model, and since there are quite a few countries in Europe, does he owe $10,000 per country or just $10,000 for getting Europe wrong as a package? Or is it $10,000 per country on "single payer" and another $10,000 per country for "free"?

We can let his conscience decide. Money is owed, however.

Thank you.

Sarah Berk
Executive Director, Health Care America



Health Care America is a nonpartisan, not-for-profit advocacy organization devoted to promoting the fundamental principles of access, choice, quality, innovation and competition in our health care system.

For more information please visit www.healthcare-america.org.

[DwightShrute]

What wasnt factual about Sicko?

All I ever hear from neonitwits is how fugly Moore is but never any factual rebuttals about his movie.

But thats how they operate, when they cant dispute facts, go to plan B: call them fat and ugly.

If you wish to believe everything Moore tells you. Be my guest. He is fat and ugly which is another fact.

The Rest of the Story

http://sicko.ncpa.org/?c=The-Rest-of-the-Story

Moore: Man dies of kidney cancer because insurance company won't pay for bone marrow transplant.
Reality: No insurer - including the governments in Canada, Britain, France and Cuba pays for the procedure. Reason: Clinical trials show it doesn't work.
Read More
Moore: There are no excessive waits for care in Canada.
Canadian Supreme Court: The waits are unconscionable.
Read More
Moore: British hospitals have no cashiers to accept money because patients don't have to pay the bill.
Reality: The one in seven patients who pay out of pocket for care are finding ways to pay the bill.
Read More
Moore: Health Care in Cuba is better than health care in the United States.
Cubans: When you enter a hospital, you have to bring your own linens, soap, food and even medicines.
Read More
Moore: Only in the U.S. are patients denied care because of a lack of money.
Reality: People in other countries are routinely denied care because of a lack of money.
Read More
Moore: A typical doctor in Britain earns $200,000 and lives in a $1 million dollar home.
Reality: British doctors get a fraction of what U.S. doctors are paid.
Read More
Moore: The typical French family has a lifestyle Americans can only envy - with free day care, free health care and lots of time off and lengthy paid vacations.
Reality: In the last election, French voters overwhelmingly rejected the welfare state candidate in favor of the candidate who wants to make France more like America.
Read More
Moore: The French health care system is attuned to patient needs.
Reality: The French government condemned the health care system for contributing to patient deaths during the 2003 heat wave.
Read More

[durito]

I live in a "third world" country. I've had top of the line insurance in the USA. Here they have public and private options. I choose the private "expensive" insurance (quotes because it costs 25% of the USA and is 3x as good) I wouldn't trade my private insurance here for the USA coverage.

No one in the USA has ever proposed a public only system. The clowns suggesting otherwise are making shit up. A public option only serves to provide competition. If the private system is so good, it will continue to prosper. If the gov't system is better, it will have to change.

[durito]

dp

[Deuce]

Republicans can't stand Michael Moore because he delivers the truth.

Same with dems and rush

[mmike032]

TOP TEN INDICATORS THAT YOUR COMPANY

HAS CHANGED TO THE GOVERNMENT'S NEW

PROPOSED HEALTH CARE PLAN:



(10) Your annual breast exam is done at Hooters.


(9) Directions to your doctor's office include "Take a left when you enter the trailer park."


(8) The tongue depressors taste faintly of Fudgesicles.


(7) The only proctologist in the plan is "Gus" from Roto-Rooter.


(6) The only item listed under Preventive Care Coverage is "an apple a day..."


(5) Your primary care physician is wearing the pants you gave to Goodwill last month.


(4) "The patient is responsible for 200% of out-of-network charges," is not a typographical error.


(3) The only expense covered 100% is "embalming."


(2) Your Prozac comes in different colors with little M's on them.



AND THE NUMBER ONE SIGN YOU'VE JOINED THE GOVERNMENT'S NEW HEALTH CARE

PLAN:


(1) You ask for Viagra and they give you a Popsicle stick and Duct Tape!