Originally posted by ryanXL977
Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber.
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Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber.
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was he a singles hitter or not?????????????????????????Originally posted by daggerkobeIchiro would never say he's the best .... because he's HUMBLE.
But which player is regarded as the best hitter of all time.... Ty Cobb. A singles hitter.
As for Dice-K... name me 19 better pitchers.
make up your mind? that was your orginal statement that I responded to...
in one post you wanna use his large sample size 23 years against him... now you talk about a short season??? are you insane??
was Cobb's 11,434 career at bats not enough (4th all time).... is that not a big enough sample size?
you do realize an average or percentage...... isn't dependent on the number of at bats over a season? after 11k plus ab's I think we have a fair sample size to determine that cobb's slugging % is pretty accurate...
if he had 8 more games and 40 more at bats, he would just get more total bases and his avg and slugg % would be the same more or less
by the way there is a HUGE difference between Ichiro's slugging % and Cobb's slugging % cobb is about 25% higher, which is unreal
ichiro=singles hitter
cobb=all round hitterComment -
WHAT are you talking about?????
What does his cumulative DOUBLES and TRIPLES have to do with anything????? Who cares if he's 2nd or 3rd in all-time.... you don't think if Reyes, Crawford or Rollins plays 24 seasons they wouldn't break his triples record? Just because someone has a cumulative record doesn't mean he was the best. You think Pete Rose was the greatest hitter of his era? Nope.... he just played long enough to break the record. Do you think Hank Aaron was the greatest HR hitter, slugging 50 HRs a season? No, the longevity helped him break Babe's HR record. So who cares about cumulative records???????
I'm responding to your ridiculous claim that Cobb was a SLUGGER like Pujols because they have similar SLG%. They are NOT the same type of players. Pujols already has 319 HRs in mere 8 seasons.... 39.9 HRs a season. Cobb had 117 HRs in 24 seasons.... which is 4.9 HRs a season. Even Ichiro has 73 HRs in 8 seasons..... 9.1 HR per season, almost double that of the SLUGGER Cobb.
Not to mention Pujols does NOT hit triples. In fact, he had 0 in 2008. 1 in 2007. 1 in 2006. Has total of 13 in 8 seasons. Which is funny since you like to keep mentioning how Cobb is 3rd in triples all-time.
Plus Pujols is a typical SLUGGER..... 78% of his hits are SINGLES & DOUBLES. Cobb is 90%, Ichiro 92%, Rose 93%.
Let me ask you this.... which is more impressive.... a hitter that hits .400 in 162 games or .400 in 120 games? Or a basketball player that averages 35ppg in 82 games or 60 games? Of course it matters how many less at bats Cobb had every single season. Players tend to wear down with longer seasons, which can hurt their stats.
If Cobb isn't a prototypical SINGLES hitter, then what is he? A slugger??? We've already established that hitting TRIPLES doesn't mean you're a slugger, otherwise you'd be telling me Reyes, Crawford and Rollins are sluggers. Are they? We already know Cobb isn't a HOME RUN hitter since he averaged less HR per season than even Ichiro!!!! Unless you think Ichiro is a slugger too! Well, do ya????
Cobb could've led the majors in HR every year, doesn't make him a SLUGGER. I mean in the early days of basketball, lots of scores were in the teens like 12-10.... so the best player was probably averaging 4ppg. Does that mean he was the Michael Jordan or Kobe of his ERA? Of course not... just means they played a different game back then. Just like Cobb's ERA.... all of them were SINGLES HITTERS. Home runs didn't become en vogue until Babe Ruth.
Oh look, Ichiro just led off the WBC with a single.
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must be the best hitter in baseball then
his average is up to what? 220 in wbc now?Comment -
.331 BA 1805 HITS in 8 seasons.... name me a better hitter, moron.Comment -
whya re you calling names?
pujols
berkman
arod
teixera
vladdy
maggs
sizemore
reyes
rollins
beltran
wright
crawford
mauer
morneau
manny
hanley ramirez
chipper jones
damon
holliday maybe
id take victor martinez
id consider granderson
chase utley
adrian gonzalez
josh hamilton
pedroia
jason bay
derek lee
aramis ramirez
carlos lee
braun
i can keep goingComment -
ichiro = shane victorinoComment -
I never claimed cobb was a slugger...show me where I did.
now just answer the question was cobb just a singles hitter like YOU CLAIM or not... its really simple back your statement up or back off it...
do you stand by your statement that Cobb was a singles hit only? like you claim or were you wrongComment -
This was probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but I am not reading through it all right now.Originally posted by WileOutHere are a few from last year.
ERA-Minimum 80 innings, Name, Nationality, WBC status
2.07 Rich Harden (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.22 JP Howell (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.54 Cliff Lee (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.54 Justin Duchscherer (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.60 Joba Chamberlain (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.62 Tim Lincecum (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.70 CC Sabathia (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.78 Roy Halladay (American) - Didn't play in the WBC
2.85 Jake Peavy (American) - Did not play against Japan
Then Dice
Right behind him 2.96 Ryan Dempster (American) - Did not play in WBC
Dice is the 3rd best starter on his team. 4th best pitcher counting papelbon (who didn't play in the WBC either).
OUR BEST PLAYERS SIMPLY DID NOT PLAY
Both those guys are Canadian though, not Americans. Canada could have easily beat the States also if they had their best guys. Dempster, Harden, Bedard, Francis...solid pitching. None of them went. Mainly because of injuries, but most of these countries have the some players didn't come excuse.
Japan has incredible players guys. It's very ignorant to assume that if Utley or Berkman or Lincecum were there than the USA would win. Just incredibly ignorant.
The guy that said they'd mercy Japan? You might be the dumbest poster here if you believe that. They might win, they might not. Mercy though? Not a chance. Japan has incredible pitching. You could take all the best pitchers from USA you want and they wouldn't be much better than the pitching staff Japan has. The names of the USA guys might mean more to you because they play in MLB, but that doesn't make them better pitchers. One of the best pitchers in Japan has been offered millions and millions from MLB. He refuses to play there. He has said he will retire from baseball before he plays professionally in the United States of America, or anywhere else other than Japan. Just because he does not play MLB does not mean he isn't better than most of the All Star MLB pitchers. It's very ignorant to assume otherwise.
As for Ichiro and Dice K. Neither are the best at their position. They are both however top 10 at their position. To me Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols and David Wright are the three best hitters in the league. After that I would put Hanley and Beltran. Ichiro can definitely make a case for top 5 though. People just don't give him respect because he does not hit HR's. Give me someone that will constantly get on base and create havoc for pitchers/catchers, and also play great defense over someone like Ryan Howard any day.
Pujols and A-Rod by the way can both play for Domincan Republic. Not 100% on that, but I say that with 95% confidence. I am almost certain they are two of many guys USA claims to be able to have that can also go play for another country, their ACTUAL nationality.
USA could not have put together much of a better lineup. Their pitchers could have been improved, but many were saying Oswalt could be a Cy Young pitcher this year, and how he's been one of the best the past 8 years, but now all of a sudden he sucks because he lost that game for you guys? Whatever you say. Canada almost beat USA with ****ing Mike Johnson starting and you whine about Jake Peavy and Roy Oswalt?Comment -
berkman and braun are both better hitters than david wright. and i still dont see how a slap singles hitter who cant even get a double but 20 x a year is top 5, or top 25 for that matter
he is a groundball slap hitter
overrated bc of his status as first japanese american superstarComment -
How many times do you want me to answer the question? He was a SINGLES HITTER!!!!!! And it doesn't literally mean they only hit singles, it refers to NON-SLUGGERS that mainly hit SINGLES & DOUBLES.... just like Cobb.
Oh right, it wasn't you that compared him to Pujols, it was the other moron, Element. I guess I must've shut him up in to submission with FACTS that he's gone back in to the closet to suck on his thumb.
You actually compared him to Jose Canseco and Harmon Killebrew. OK.... so let us compare them.
Jose Canseco... 462 career HRs in 17 seasons. Cobb 117 career HRs in 24 seasons. Canseco 17 career triples. Cobb 295. 75% of career hits were SINGLES & DOUBLES. Cobb 90%, Ichiro 92%, Rose 93%.
Harmon Killebrew... 573 career HRs in 22 seasons. Cobb 117 career HRs in 24 seasons. Killebrew 24 career triples. Cobb 295. 71% of career hits were SINGLES & DOUBLES. Cobb 90%, Ichiro 92%, Rose 93%.
You sure proved me wrong.
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i guess jerry west was a bad shooter
i dont think he ever had a single three pointer.
comparing players of dead ball eras to live ball is not smart.
youre out of your league kidComment -
What is wrong with slap singles? As I said I would much rather a guy like Ichiro that will get more hits than anybody every year, plays the game incredibly smart (someone willing to make a sac bunt, or slap a grounder to the 2b side to move a runner over), can turn singles into doubles, and doubles into triples, steals bases, and plays fantastic defense over someone who will hit .250 at best and hit 35 HR's. Give me the singles hitter in that scenario any day.Originally posted by ryanXL977
Braun was on team USA also. Braun and Wright are the two best hitters the USA has that are solely American. Not counting A-Rod or Pujols because as said they can play for DR.
People vastly underrate the importance intelligence and selflessness of a baseball player. Most All Star MLB players are too full of themselves to lay down a sac bunt or give themselves an out to help them team but just hitting the ball to the 2b side to move a runner. They don't want that. They want the HR's, they want the RBI's, and it costs them because they miss out on opportunites. Japan knows how to play small ball and it works. Just ask the old Minnesota Twins teams. They didn't have much talent but were able to give themselves a chance to win every night by playing small play and playing smart.
Intelligence is certainly not a main criteria USA looks for in their hitters.Comment -
Originally posted by Chi_archie
You compared him to Harmon Killebrew and Jose Canseco.
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ichiro doesnt turn singles into doubles though, he doesnt turn doubles into triples. thats the thing. he is purely a singles guy, he doesnt drive in runs, he doesnt really do anything but hit singles. i dont see him helping his team win much either.
i never said the best hitters are american, what i said was ichiro isnt CLOSE top 10. not a mile close. not remotely. I dont think he lays down a lot of sac bunts. i havent seen many more selfish players than ichiro to be honest.Comment -
didn't compare him, just told you where he was in the list....
just admit that cobb wasn't a singles hitter... you keep wanting to ADD DOUBLES into every discussion...
Cobb was a well rounded hitter, that does not compare to ichiro in that respect.....sorry
again please spare us comparing players from different eras...We've already proved that, that doesn't work.... hitters in the deadball era were at a huge disadvantage....
otherwise I guess I can contend that guys like Pud Galvin, guy Hecker, Old Hoss Radburn were 3-4 times better then your guy dice-k.... after all In a SHORTER season, they had 3-4 times the amount of wins in a season then Dice K has had..... does that make sense?
no you can't compare stats in different eras like that.
and please explain to me again why Ty Cobb's CAREER slugging % over 23 years are affected by his shorter seasons... that was funnyComment -
Exactly.Originally posted by c-rok
Ichiro is a LEADOFF hitter. His job is to get on base. Steal 2nd. Advance to 3rd on a ground ball/flyball. And score on a sac hit. Just because he doesn't hit HRs doesn't mean he can't. If you've seen this guy taking batting practice, you'd know he can hit home runs if he wanted. But that would mean being selfish as he would strike out a lot more, which doesn't help his team at all.Comment -
DO YOU ****ING UNDERSTAND WHAT SINGLES HITTER MEANS???????
IT MEANS SOMEONE THAT IS A LIGHT HITTER, WHO DOESN'T HIT HOME RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you actually think I meant all his 4189 hits were SINGLES??????????????
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im sorry,
heres an easy one then
is ichiro even top 20 IN THE AL IN OBP???
IN THE AL ONLY???
now im sure i will be called names, but if you cant get 2bs or 3bs or homers, then at least get on base. but a guy who gets 220 hits per year isnt top 20 in obp?
hmm...Comment -
Cobb was NOT a slugger.... and you comparing him to Jose Canseco & Harmon Killebrew just destroyed what little crediblity you might've had.
Yeah, because no one ever compares Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds or A-Roid.
You're the moron that had no clue Cobb was a singles hitter, ooop Im sorry a LIGHT HITTER who didn't hit Homeruns, oh wait, he hit 117, don't want you think I meant that literally.
It's not about wins and losses, retardo. We've already gone over this numerous times. Dice-K not only won that won 86% of his starts (18-3), 2.90 ERA (5th in AL ERA) and LED THE LEAGUE in BAA in the same year. Name a pitcher that did at least these in MLB HISTORY and I will praise him also.Comment -
why cant you debate without calling names
if ichiros goal is to get on base, and he gets so many hits, why is his obp outside the top in the AL?
come on, teach me something.Comment -
Originally posted by ryanXL977
Actually, he is top 20.
3rd highest among leadoff hitters.
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no
he isnt top 20 in obp in the al
you didnt posit that he is the best leadoff hitter in the al, you said he was the best hitter in baseball
you changing your argument because you are getting smoked?Comment -
he was 26th in the AL last year in obp
26th
and thats just the al.
so not sure what he is good at, if not getting on base or getting xbh's, then how is he the best hitter in baseball , or even the al west?
thanks
retardoComment -
regardless of if he is 26th or 20th, my point has been madeComment -
And what point might that be?
That Ichiro has the 3rd best OBP among leadoff hitters?
Oh damn, he sucks.
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never said he sucks, youre making up lies
you said he was the best hitter in baseball
he isnt even top 20 in the al in obp
go argue with someone else, im done.
evidence doesnt count in your world.Comment -
Wow.
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who cares about stats
the japanese are a better baseball TEAM, it is a TEAM SPORT
ryan keep pulling up your meaningless stats, cause that is all you got
japs and koreans will win everytime, one game or seven forget itComment -
I think this game clearly shows why usa lost. These two were the best teams in the WBC this year.Comment -
Ichiro does it again.
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Originally posted by ryanXL977
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you guys happen to watch this game?
1. this is the best game you will watch for a long time.
2. ichiro has 4 hits and just knocked in two in the 10th with 2 outs. clutch.
Ichiro = top 10 hitter in baseball. No doubt about it.Comment -
i guess if melky cabrera has a 4 hit game, he is the best hitter in baseball
click, snapshot
one gameComment
