Lebron Closing in on Jordan

williams22 · 03-31-10, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by phillybadboy

michael got three in a row retired came back and got three more in a row nw that's dominating,if he didn't retire he would have gotten ten in a row,now that's dominating

Originally posted by phillybadboy

when michaell was around there was never a question of who was gona take the championship,now thats dominating

Partially because there weren't any other serious contenders.

Also, many question how voluntary Jordan's 2-year "retirement" was.

pittmatt80 · 03-31-10, 04:29 PM

Great article

This is a great article and shows how good of a player we all know Lebron is. But until he gets a supporting cast he will never come close to Jordan's championships. The Cav's are trying to get that team around Lebron so he will not leave and hopefully this is their year to win one. They have to be odds on favorite but you cannot count out the Lakers as they probably will be there again. Being a Cav's fan and a Lebron fan I hope this is the year he gets over the hump but we will see.

nobull · 03-31-10, 04:30 PM

no championship bling on his fingers yet. til then don't believe the hype. if he wins the MVP again this year, bravo for him.

BernardMadoff · 03-31-10, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by williams22

Partially because there weren't any other serious contenders.

Also, many question how voluntary Jordan's 2-year "retirement" was.

Lol, unbelievable.

phillybadboy · 03-31-10, 04:33 PM

kiss the riings

williams22 · 03-31-10, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by BernardMadoff

Lol, unbelievable.

Which part?

lyon804 · 03-31-10, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by williams22

I "sounds" stupid? You're a moron.

In the year Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double ('62) teams averaged 125.5 possessions per 48 minutes. Last year teams averaged 91.7 possessions. Even someone with a limited education such as yourself should be able to understand that when a player gets 73% of the amount of possessions Big O they will put up lower numbers. If you adjust Lebron's numbers from this year by a factor of 1.368 (125.5/91.7) you get 40.8 PPG, 11.8 APG, 9.8 RPG, 2.3 SPG. Also, the league-wide FG% was much lower is Oscar's days, making rebounds even more inflated (Wilt is the best example of this). Furthermore, Oscar averaged 44 MPG in comparison to Lebron's 39. Pace-adjusted puts these numbers in context, understand? His numbers this year are otherworldly.

Yea, the pace of the game is definitely changed. You make a good point about that.. Alot of times people mistake that GS/PHO are shooting lights out when in reality they are shooting no better or sometimes worse than anybody else but they still score well over 100 pts most nites because they shoot within 7 seconds of every possession it seems. I remember alot of those Lakers/Celtics finals of 126-122 type games. Basketball has died more every year since the 80's when Majic/Bird left.. they captivated america becasue of there skill level and gamenship within there rivalry.

NBA basketball is a dying breed willy.. so much so the sport will not survive in its current manner. NBA needs huge restructuring going forward to be viable.. Davis Stern and owners has let the league go to pot..

Not to stir any racist comments here but to make actual factual statements.. For the most part the NBA is filled with thugs and gansters and the only people that support anything financially are white people and for the most part white people are not interested in the game like they use to be. Me, included.. I only watch if I have money on the game.

Lebron James... Nobody is going to disagree his basketball IQ and talent are immeasurable, but he doesn't carry that hero factor.. not the way Majic/Bird/Jordan did.. The NBA doesn't have anybody like that anymore.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by lyon804

Yea, the pace of the game is definitely changed. You make a good point about that.. Alot of times people mistake that GS/PHO are shooting lights out when in reality they are shooting no better or sometimes worse than anybody else but they still score well over 100 pts most nites because they shoot within 7 seconds of every possession it seems. I remember alot of those Lakers/Celtics finals of 126-122 type games. Basketball has died more every year since the 80's when Majic/Bird left.. they captivated america becasue of there skill level and gamenship within there rivalry.

NBA basketball is a dying breed willy.. so much so the sport will not survive in its current manner. NBA needs huge restructuring going forward to be viable.. Davis Stern and owners has let the league go to pot..

Not to stir any racist comments here but to make actual factual statements.. For the most part the NBA is filled with thugs and gansters and the only people that support anything financially are white people and for the most part white people are not interested in the game like they use to be. Me, included.. I only watch if I have money on the game.

Lebron James... Nobody is going to disagree his basketball IQ and talent are immeasurable, but he doesn't carry that hero factor.. not the way Majic/Bird/Jordan did.. The NBA doesn't have anybody like that anymore.

I agree and disagree at the same time. The NBA is in a much better place now than it was from 1999-2004 or so. Also, the middle of the 90s struggled as well. The game has a ton of young stars now and I think the overall talent level is as high as its been since the Bird/Magic rivalry.

A big difference is the way that the media has become a 24/7 scrutinizing machine. For example, Lebron doesn't shake someone's hand after a game and we get literally 3 full weeks of coverage on it. When Magic signed his big contract he soon after started complaining about his coach and demanded to be traded and nothing was made of it. With the way the media covers sports now I think it will be tough to ever have someone revered in the same way as MJ/Bird/Magic simply because any small flaw or mistake gets overblown to ridiculous lengths.

lyon804 · 03-31-10, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by williams22

I agree and disagree at the same time. The NBA is in a much better place now than it was from 1999-2004 or so. Also, the middle of the 90s struggled as well. The game has a ton of young stars now and I think the overall talent level is as high as its been since the Bird/Magic rivalry.

A big difference is the way that the media has become a 24/7 scrutinizing machine. For example, Lebron doesn't shake someone's hand after a game and we get literally 3 full weeks of coverage on it. When Magic signed his big contract he soon after started complaining about his coach and demanded to be traded and nothing was made of it. With the way the media covers sports now I think it will be tough to ever have someone revered in the same way as MJ/Bird/Magic simply because any small flaw or mistake gets overblown to ridiculous lengths.

Well, I am not going to argue with you. You do make an excellent point in regards to 24/7 media coverage on the top athletes in todays society. I guess I just got older because I hold the past players especially the 80's with such higher esteem. Most of them just seemed like better people. Take Lebron.. wonderful player and I am sure a great guy he sure seems to be, but I don't want my kid idolizing anything like him.. He is all totooed up and looks like a ganster. Today's NBA players just look awful with all there tats.. Take Majic Johnson and other great black players of his era.. They were clean cut guys with no tatoo's. Take the Denver Nuggets.. If I lived in Denver I wouldn't pay to go see that?? Look at how they look.. Looked like a bunch of hoodlums and street thugs.

O' BTW off the subject, but don't you go to Cornell? Anyways the reason I ask is the PG on Cornell this year Louis Dale is from my hometown.. B'ham, AL. He went to Altamot High school in Birmingham the wealthiest private school around. Cost 10-15 K a year to go there.. thats big money for B'ham HS if you know what i mean.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by lyon804

Well, I am not going to argue with you. You do make an excellent point in regards to 24/7 media coverage on the top athletes in todays society. I guess I just got older because I hold the past players especially the 80's with such higher esteem. Most of them just seemed like better people. Take Lebron.. wonderful player and I am sure a great guy he sure seems to be, but I don't want my kid idolizing anything like him.. He is all totooed up and looks like a ganster. Today's NBA players just look awful with all there tats.. Take Majic Johnson and other great black players of his era.. They were clean cut guys with no tatoo's. Take the Denver Nuggets.. If I lived in Denver I wouldn't pay to go see that?? Look at how they look.. Looked like a bunch of hoodlums and street thugs.

O' BTW off the subject, but don't you go to Cornell? Anyways the reason I ask is the PG on Cornell this year Louis Dale is from my hometown.. B'ham, AL. He went to Altamot High school in Birmingham the wealthiest private school around. Cost 10-15 K a year to go there.. thats big money for B'ham HS if you know what i mean.

There are certainly some guys who you don't want to be role models for your kids, but I don't think someone having tattoos alone makes that distinction. Someone like Lebron is pretty damn good role model for kids, especially the way he was able to handle the incredible hype professionally when he entered the league.

I think there is a very strong affect that time has on things. 20 years from now we are gonna look at guys like Lebron and Wade as the greats and wonder why the current players can't be more like them. It's a vicious cycle. Like I said, it's not like the guys in the 80s were perfect. By all accounts Magic was an incredibly arrogant kid when he first entered the league. Guys like Kareem got it fights. Bird never really connected with fans. Yet none of those guys got criticized for those things.

Yes I do go to Cornell and I have actually played against Dale a few times.

Goat Milk · 03-31-10, 05:29 PM

This guy Williams22 thinks the pace has changed soo much from the Jordan Era to today. What are you talking about? This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. Why don't you hop off lebrons dick for 1 second.

1. Jordan dominated the league during his time, win 10 scoring title, 7 of them in his first 8 years in the league.
2. Lebron is not even the best player in the league. There was no discussion that Jordan was a) the best and b) the most dominant, during his reign in the league.
3. Jordan's 33, 8 and 8 and 3 steals better than any season Lebron has had including this season (the pace was the same as it is today)
4. It's not all about the stats, its about winning
5. Jodan was a notorious clutch player , even in his first 7 years, Lebron has time and time again missed GW shots that could have elevated his greatness to another level.

I don't want to hear your response Williams cause your just going to argue so i'm out peace

jjgold · 03-31-10, 05:47 PM

Same age Lebron definitely a better all around player

Now he has to win

eidolon · 03-31-10, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Jordan averaged 37 5 and 5 one season, then he averaged 33 8 and 8. Those are both better stats in a season then Lebron has this year. And Jordan was a MUCH better defensive player than Lebron. He led the league in steals almost every year. Lebron has a long way to go (defensively) if your going to put him on JOrdan's level or even Kobe's.

Yep. The PER system shows almost no idea of how good a player is on defense. It is all stat based, which is a flaw in comparing players.

orangeheaven · 03-31-10, 06:20 PM

Come on now, look at who Jordan played against. No comparison. LeBron is playing against mediocre players. Those 6 rings Jordan have was against top notch players.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by orangeheaven

Come on now, look at who Jordan played against. No comparison. LeBron is playing against mediocre players. Those 6 rings Jordan have was against top notch players.

This is an incredible generalization. I would venture to say that there are more future hall of famers in the NBA right now than there are from many of the years in the 90s.

tltaylor89 · 03-31-10, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by williams22

This is an incredible generalization. I would venture to say that there are more future hall of famers in the NBA right now than there are from many of the years in the 90s.

Its a viable argument Barkley, Johnson , Hakeem

Chi_archie · 03-31-10, 06:25 PM

will never be the same.... till he starts gambling, doesn't pay... gets his dad killed, and his fingertip cut off

freeVICK · 03-31-10, 06:32 PM

if only lebron had Phil Jackson as a coach...

BernardMadoff · 03-31-10, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by williams22

Which part?

The no contenders part.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

will never be the same.... till he starts gambling, doesn't pay... gets his dad killed, and his fingertip cut off

Is this referring to Jordan? If so, care to elaborate on the last two claims?

phillybadboy · 03-31-10, 06:39 PM

when michael was around there was no question who was number # 1, now some people say kobe,some people say lebron, when michael was around everybody else was number #2

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by BernardMadoff

The no contenders part.

The league was fairly weak during 96-98 when Jordan won the last 3 rings. The Jazz were good but I think the top of the league overall is stronger right now.

BernardMadoff · 03-31-10, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by williams22

The league was fairly weak during 96-98 when Jordan won the last 3 rings. The Jazz were good but I think the top of the league overall is stronger right now.

What about when he won the first 3?

Doc JS · 03-31-10, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Mo2Gotti

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...PERDiem-100330

Lebron is having perhaps the most dominant regular season the league has ever seen.

Please! This is such a mindless assertion that it doesn't deserve a response, but I will anyway...

Is he averaging a triple double like Oscar Robertson did for an entire season? NO

Is he averaging 50 points a game like Wilt Chamberlin did for an entire season?? NO

Has he won a damn thing so far in his career??? NO

Get back to me when the answer to any of these questions is YES and we can talk about the most dominant regular season ever...until then

Doc

PAULYPOKER · 03-31-10, 06:52 PM

King James will pass em all

The Seer · 03-31-10, 06:52 PM

I hated Jordan but I laugh when people try to downplay his accomplishments and make up excuses why he was so great. It's usually guys who were too young to know what they were seeing. The guy was hitting pressure shots for championships. He's the greatest, plain and simple. There is no debate.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Doc JS

Is he averaging a triple double like Oscar Robertson did for an entire season? NO

Is he averaging 50 points a game like Wilt Chamberlin did for an entire season?? NO

Has he won a damn thing so far in his career??? NO

Get back to me when the answer to any of these questions is YES and we can talk about the most dominant regular season ever...until then

Doc

As I posted above (if you read the thread) Lebron's current numbers are equal to Oscar's when you adjust for the pace of the game today versus back then. Same thing applies to Wilt. Are you aware that offensive goaltending was legal when Wilt averaged 50 a game? Over 20% of his points came from redirecting teammates shots at the rim.

Again, Jordan hadn't won anything after 6 years either. Lebron is about to win his second MVP, and it will be unanimous

The Seer · 03-31-10, 06:54 PM

When he does,let us know. There's a lot that can happen between now and then. This thread is hilarious.

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by The Seer

I hated Jordan but I laugh when people try to downplay his accomplishments and make up excuses why he was so great. It's usually guys who were too young to know what they were seeing. The guy was hitting pressure shots for championships. He's the greatest, plain and simple. There is no debate.

No one here is arguing he's not, just simply stating that Lebron's regular season performance this year is as good as Jordan ever did.

Scorpion · 03-31-10, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Ralphie1412

Michael never got swept in a Finals. Also has 6 rings. Holler when hes at 4.

lol, so true

**** the queen,
Queen James

The Seer · 03-31-10, 06:56 PM

I will go on a limb and say Lebron will never have 2 different 3 peats and 6 rings total after wasting time and stats playing baseball.

BernardMadoff · 03-31-10, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by PAULYPOKER

King James will pass em all

williams22 · 03-31-10, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by The Seer

I will go on a limb and say Lebron will never have 2 different 3 peats and 6 rings total after wasting time and stats playing baseball.

That's because there is more parity among the top teams right now. Also, I will go on a limb and say Lebron will never be pushed into semi-voluntary retirement because of a gambling addiction

kobefanatic · 03-31-10, 07:00 PM

williams you seem to enjoy arguing about lebron

The Seer · 03-31-10, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by williams22

That's because there is more parity among the top teams right now. Also, I will go on a limb and say Lebron will never be pushed into semi-voluntary retirement because of a gambling addiction

I love how people like to use the word parity. pleeeeaaaaseeee, then the league had more great players on different teams than ever such as Magic, Bird, Olajuwan, Ewing, Barkley, Drexler, Robinson, Stockton, Malone, the list goes on. That was parity. Hell, look at the first Dream team. There was never one even close to that, LOL. How old are you Williams?