RAS totals like printing money?

[Dark Horse]

Sorry to interrupt this free advertising...

Are DH's totals like printing money?

NBA 48-23
MLB 36-23

The bad news? They're not e-mailed.
The good news? They're free, recorded, and just a few clicks away (click on sig).

I only wish more good cappers would create long term public records, so we could all help each other, and send touts like RAS on their way.

[donjuan]

All you have to do is read the RAS WNBA thread on 2p2 to get a good idea of what to expect from RAS.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/40/sports-betting/support-thread-hoopsedge-wnba-service-782839/

[Edward-RAS]

The main goal of most sports services is to sell but the main goal of RAS is to win. If you are too blinded by an anti-service sentiment to recognize this fundamental difference or even acknowledge what we have accomplished over the past 36 months with higher standards and more difficult circumstances than nearly the entire industry, forum posters included, then you really should not be commenting here.

Thremp and his following at 2+2 seem to think that we destroy the market with our own bets before releasing plays to clients and yet still manage to hit 61.52% on college bb and fb totals on 694 plays over the past 3 years against conservative WA lines after markets are 75%+ mature. It is inconceivable and next to impossible.

[Dark Horse]

The main goal of most sports services is to sell but the main goal of RAS is to win. If you are too blinded by an anti-service sentiment to recognize this fundamental difference or even acknowledge what we have accomplished over the past 36 months with higher standards and more difficult circumstances than nearly the entire industry, forum posters included, then you really should not be commenting here.

You're funny. You're a good capper. So are many others here. In other words, in this think tank you're nothing special. Somehow you get free advertising here, as a tout (!), and then you tell people they shouldn't be commenting in this thread if, paraphrasing, they have nothing positive to add?

[Dark Horse]

All you have to do is read the RAS WNBA thread on 2p2 to get a good idea of what to expect from RAS.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/40...ervice-782839/

Thanks for the link. A sly tout with a pretense of fairness, while explaining everything his way. Smarter than most touts, but still predictably transparent.

Pity he can't just drop the act and join the gang.

Probably a coincidence that his increased activity on this board coincides with the proximity of the football season. The topic you linked? Start of the WNBA... The guy must have some good karma to get away with his free advertising on forums.

Of course, if he gets criticized in the process, the standard answer is: 1) you must be anti-tout; 2) I'm only helping people.

lol

[RickySteve]

So you need to be an expert bettor with dozens of rogue outs to profit from Edward's crystal ball. Please explain why anyone should pay several grand for the service when the plays are available for free from Pinnacle.

Oh, that's right, because RAS is touting like touts do, exploiting savior-complex ploppies who don't comprehend numbers, only "winners".

[Edward-RAS]

You have to be willing to acknowledge both the pros and cons of the service or it is pointless to carry on a debate.

[RickySteve]

What are the pros again?

[Flying Dutchman]

Edward, don't you know everyone expects you to work for free?

[Sfritts8]

Ricky Steve-

You are way off base here. First of all, it doesnt cost thousands of dollars to buy a RAS Membership for a year, I think this years college football plays are $799. Secondly, you can bet his plays at a number of places before the line moves, you have about 10 seconds, but it is really not as hard as a lot of people make it out to be. There are a number of places where you can get these bets down on a consistent basis and not get booted or limited, you just have to know how to do it. Thirdly, when you get his plays in before the line moves you are guaranteed money, even if you dont want to bet his plays.

People always look at concepts through tunnel vision. Edward is tout. Touts are bad. Edward is bad. You cant criticize someone who moves the lines because of the consistent quality of his plays and then say he is not good at capping at the same time, or not good in a certain sport over a limited sample size. He wins long term, he has proven this over a large sample size and he exploits inefficient markets in college athletics at a very high level.

So, in my humble estimation, if you dont like his service then dont pay for it, but dont pee on my leg and tell me it is raining. I have made tens of thousands of dollars on RAS plays over the last couple of years, I have not been booted from any books and very rarely had my limits slashed, I am not an expert bettor, I just know if I bet a couple thousand a game on games that consistently hit between 55-60% than I will do well in the long run, and I have done more than well as a customer of RAS.

[sharpcat]

If you are betting into picks from a service with a large following the line is going to move on a majority of the plays therefore you will be classified as chasing steam and it is not not about if you will get your limits cut or be put on a delay it is about when.

Sfritts8-

Anybody running a popular tout service can and will move lines.

Not sure how it is easy to get plays in before the line moves when like you say "you have about 10 seconds"

[Sfritts8]

You press a button and type in your password, it takes about 10 seconds, not that hard. I have not been put on a delay or had my limits cut too often, it has happened, but in no way has it stopped me from getting RAS plays down at the number he releases them. Like I said, with a little creativity it just isnt that hard.

I am aware that popular tout services can move lines because of a large following. The question is how did RAS gain a large following, through luck, aggressive marketing, misleading record keeping. I would submit he gained this following through hard work and producing winning plays.

If you dont like touts I get it, but to continue to throw these ludicrously weak arguments as to why people would not make money subscribing to his service is just plain stupid. Selfishly, I hope no new people buy his plays, less competition for the good lines, I am just speaking from my own experience and Edward has made me a lot of money.

[Pokerjoe]

Dude, if you can't follow the arguments, fine, but you insult yourself by failing at it. The points I made are neither complicated nor wrong.

I went out of my way to say he was not doing aggressive marketing or misleading record keeping. I didn't even say it would be a bad idea to subscribe. In fact I'd be willing to bet he has a winning record this year. I just said the calculation should be something other than "Yee haw, look at that record!"

But I didn't have people like you in mind when I wrote that, I admit.

[Edward-RAS]

Pokerjoe, your criticisms were mostly fair, and I agreed with some key parts of it. Other posters in this thread have been onesided and unjust, and I am guessing that is what Sfritts was referring to.

[Emily_Haines]

Sorry to interrupt this free advertising...

Are DH's totals like printing money?

NBA 48-23
MLB 36-23

The bad news? They're not e-mailed.
The good news? They're free, recorded, and just a few clicks away (click on sig).

I only wish more good cappers would create long term public records, so we could all help each other, and send touts like RAS on their way.

Great job on the totals. I will check them out.

[donjuan]

Pokerjoe, your criticisms were mostly fair, and I agreed with some key parts of it. Other posters in this thread have been onesided and unjust, and I am guessing that is what Sfritts was referring to.

Right, it's so unjust when someone points out that you've scammed your clients in the past and show no remorse for it.

[Edward-RAS]

Exactly.

It is unjust when users spread misinformation.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Which "misinformation" would you be referring to? I believe you admitted to the practice of scamming your clients yourself.

[MonkeyF0cker]

And please don't try to insult our collective intelligence by saying that you're not in the business to sell picks. If you weren't, YOU WOULDN'T BE SELLING PICKS.

[Dark Horse]

Edward, you get respect for being a good capper. There are many here, so you're barking up the wrong tree if you want additional respect as a tout. The more you demand it, by defending your 'exalted' position, the more people will laugh at you for putting yourself on a pedestal. What is so 'unjust' about that? Let me guess. Psychology doesn't factor into your picks.

[Thremp]

The main goal of most sports services is to sell but the main goal of RAS is to win. If you are too blinded by an anti-service sentiment to recognize this fundamental difference or even acknowledge what we have accomplished over the past 36 months with higher standards and more difficult circumstances than nearly the entire industry, forum posters included, then you really should not be commenting here. Thremp and his following at 2+2 seem to think that we destroy the market with our own bets before releasing plays to clients and yet still manage to hit 61.52% on college bb and fb totals on 694 plays over the past 3 years against conservative WA lines after markets are 75%+ mature. It is inconceivable and next to impossible.

Don't lie about my position you disingenuous idiot.

[Sfritts8]

Not sure what the historical beef is between the math boy posters and Edward. All my posts were attempting to say is that I pay Edward a small amount of money (at least for me), and he releases plays, I bet the plays and make 50 times the amount of money from betting the plays than what I payed for them. In my mind, this is a good investment, and he has won money for me in every season I have ever bet his plays. If you can handicap your own games, good for you, I cant, and dont have the time, so it has been an extremely profitable venture for me following RAS's plays and I suspect it will continue to be.

[sharpcat]

Not sure what the historical beef is between the math boy posters and Edward. All my posts were attempting to say is that I pay Edward a small amount of money (at least for me), and he releases plays, I bet the plays and make 50 times the amount of money from betting the plays than what I payed for them. In my mind, this is a good investment, and he has won money for me in every season I have ever bet his plays. If you can handicap your own games, good for you, I cant, and dont have the time, so it has been an extremely profitable venture for me following RAS's plays and I suspect it will continue to be.

Whats going to happen when the books start subscribing to his service and start moving lines as soon as his plays are released?

Will you get a refund on your money this year if that happens?

[Bluehorseshoe]

Whats going to happen when the books start subscribing to his service and start moving lines as soon as his plays are released? Will you get a refund on your money this year if that happens?

They do now. I saw 5Dimes do it all last year.

[Edward-RAS]

We are as straight forward and educational with our clients as possible. Some of the very criticisms of the service in this thread are discussed on multiple pages of our website, including the order page. The challenges that fast line movement present, betting enough to justify the cost of the service, past results are no guarantee of future results, etc. Information that you are highly unlikely to find any other handicapping service website.

Yes, we are selling picks, that is obvious, but what I was pointing out is the fundamental differences between us and 99% of the industry. Others generate sales by aggressive marketing, focus on short term streaks, handicapping all sports, promoting multiple handicappers on the same website so someone is always hot, non-WA lines, unrealistic unit ratings, inaccurate recordkeeping, and so forth. We generate our sales primarily from our transparent winning records. We could make more money if we handicapped the full CFB season, started doing NBA and NFL, promoted other handicappers, or accepted a spots on third party websites, but we don't. We stick to our website and the markets that we have the most edge in.

What is disingenuous is people here making harsh attacks on me and the service who have never dealt with me personally, have no idea how I run the service, and have no first hand experience using the service. If the service ever becomes too difficult to use, we would absolutely refund everyone and go a different route.

Even against the closing line, our CFB/CBB totals have hit 55.76% (538 plays) the past two years. This may not be reflective of future results, but its a pretty strong indicator of our edge.

Nothing I say will change the views of some people here, but we'll just keep letting our record speak for itself.

[Pokerjoe]

Thremp, give it up and don't re-hash this garbage... Would you rather pay for a service that doesn't have the confidence to bet their own releases?

Don't buy RAS if you don't want it... but don't clutter up a thread with your obvious bias either.

I'm sure there are plenty of subscribers who were happy with RAS's performance over the past twelve months.

I agree. Personally I don't think the RAS scandal--whenever it was, early CBB 2008 I think, but whenever--should be part of a potential subscriber's calculation. I don't think it was that big a deal to begin with, but even it you do, it's still just another factor to consider.

The calculation is this: your estimate of his long-run expected units won at real-world lines, less the cost of the service expressed in units, less the potential cost of irritating books, plus maybe the time saved from not having to do the work yourself, and even plus whatever fun you get from betting, and less whatever fun you get from doing your own work. None of these variables can be figured for you; it's all your opinion, your situation.

But even if you're thinking, "Man, that Edward guy, he's a snake, I'll probably lose 1.43921 ppg in line value because of it!" You should still merely adjust your variable's estimates accordingly, and if it all totals up to +EV, go with it.

By my estimate for me, it's -EV. But everyone needs to do their own thinking on this.

/thread, imo.

[Thremp]

We are as straight forward and educational with our clients as possible. Some of the very criticisms of the service in this thread are discussed on multiple pages of our website, including the order page. The challenges that fast line movement present, betting enough to justify the cost of the service, past results are no guarantee of future results, etc. Information that you are highly unlikely to find any other handicapping service website. Yes, we are selling picks, that is obvious, but what I was pointing out is the fundamental differences between us and 99% of the industry. Others generate sales by aggressive marketing, focus on short term streaks, handicapping all sports, promoting multiple handicappers on the same website so someone is always hot, non-WA lines, unrealistic unit ratings, inaccurate recordkeeping, and so forth. We generate our sales primarily from our transparent winning records. We could make more money if we handicapped the full CFB season, started doing NBA and NFL, promoted other handicappers, or accepted a spots on third party websites, but we don't. We stick to our website and the markets that we have the most edge in. What is disingenuous is people here making harsh attacks on me and the service who have never dealt with me personally, have no idea how I run the service, and have no first hand experience using the service. If the service ever becomes too difficult to use, we would absolutely refund everyone and go a different route. Even against the closing line, our CFB/CBB totals have hit 55.76% (538 plays) the past two years. This may not be reflective of future results, but its a pretty strong indicator of our edge. Nothing I say will change the views of some people here, but we'll just keep letting our record speak for itself.

How about starting with educating everyone on the problems you with the bank robber and leaking of numbers before? And how allegedly anyone who wants a refund for that period can get one?

Or how your past record (which you repeatedly cite) is NO INDICATION of your future record? Only an idiot would write what is bolded. Or a thief. You are likely both. You have repeatedly stated you have no obligation to provide the best possible service to your clients, merely to provide them with an iota of +EV. So why do you use a prior record that isn't indicative of your future intentions (which could change at any time)?

[Edward-RAS]

How about starting with educating everyone on the problems you with the bank robber

Old news. Hasn't had any affect on service for the past 2 full seasons, and will never again.

and leaking of numbers before?

As I indicated every play ever released was graded with a line that was conservative widely available at time of release. If a line ever moves just before or during release, the line is adjusted before release or after if needed, or the play is simply removed. This is all reflected in our records.

Or how your past record (which you repeatedly cite) is NO INDICATION of your future record?

Past results are no guarantee of future results, but they are obviously a prime indicator.

Only an idiot would write what is bolded. Or a thief. You are likely both.

More evidence of your huge bias and lack of credibility.

[Thremp]

How exactly do I lack credibility? Did I go into business with a convicted felon? Did I refuse to back my prior record with monies? Am I trolling message boards as a salesperson?

Oh wait. That is you

[Edward-RAS]

Did I refuse to back my prior record with monies?

It was you that refused to meet us at Matchbook. Lucky for you as you would have certainly lost.

[Thremp]

It was you that refused to meet us at Matchbook. Lucky for you as you would have certainly lost.

You mean where you refused to back your advertising claims, then refused to offer a 50/50 bet under the pretense of being too stupid to understand a binomial distribution?

This is of course ignoring the fact that engaging in a large bet with a crook would be silly. I was more interested in what type of spineless wormy tactics you'd use, and, of course, you provided it.

[Thremp]

How about this gem of a quote where you admit to frontrunning your customers:

There is no sports service in existence that sells high level +EV plays without doing some sort of front-running.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=19281737&postcount=189

[Edward-RAS]

The terms I offered were fair and reasonable, you wisely refused as we hit over 60% in WNBA the last four weeks of the service.

If you don't think we will win in CFB, CBB, or WNBA in the future, I invite you set up a prop with any reasonable terms at Matchbook.

[Thremp]

The terms I offered were fair and reasonable, you wisely refused as we hit over 60% in WNBA the last four weeks of the service. If you don't think we will win in CFB, CBB, or WNBA in the future, I invite you set up a prop with any reasonable terms at Matchbook.

I did. I asked if you would back the historical win % that was posted on the front page of your site. You declined. You then offered terms equivalent to -117 (Assuming Cowley's math is correct) on a substantially lower winrate. You think this is "reasonable"? Are you brain damaged or just trying to show how much of a lying thief you are?

[Edward-RAS]

How about this gem of a quote where you admit to frontrunning your customers:




http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=189

Sure, I admit that we bet our own plays, but it has very little to zero impact on the service.

Like I said, if you think we destroy the market with our own bets before releasing plays to clients and yet still manage to hit 61.52% on cbb/cfb totals on 694 plays over the past 3 years against conservative WA lines after markets are 75%+ mature, then I don't know what to tell you. It is next to impossible.