what gabe says.

gabe · 05-17-12, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

He was referring to the Escovedo fight Gabriel? See the bit were he put "Escovedo"!

oh, my bad... so he's saying i got lucky because what i thought would happen in that fight happened? lmao- my prediction of bruce leeroy outstriking escovedo and giving him his walking papers was not a ridiculous thing that ended up happening... he only sees it that way because he has terribly low MMA IQ... my predictions are spot on most of the time, so if you think they're ridiculous and i keep getting lucky, then you are a joke and need to just stop talking.

Or is he saying that I said Escovedo would win? I don't get it. Either way, dude is totally off his pills.

Vitooch · 05-17-12, 04:34 AM

I dont think Struve got lucky submitting Barry. He got a hold of Barry's neck, dragged him down in the process, and quickly sunk in a triangle. Barry was helpless against a very skilled BJJ player in Struve. While i agree he may have trouble taking to the fight to the ground ( which was a main concern in the Barry fight), If he does manage to get the fight to the ground,he should have no trouble submitting Hunt.

There is no evidence suggesting that Struve would be able to outpoint Hunt, a K-1 kickboxer. But there is blatant evidence that he has the ability to submit HunT

And also, since you deny that you are comparing Struve to Condit, let me be the one to compare the two. Condit is a much better kickboxer than Struve. Condit has the capability of employing such a strategy. Struve has not proven in any fights that he has the capability to do so.

gabe · 05-17-12, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by Vitooch

I must disagree. Barry's ground game is still very rudimentary. We saw that in his inability to submit Lavar Johnson. Surviving one armbar from Morecraft is not enough to convince me he can hang with Struve on the ground. With Struve's long and dexterous limbs he can pull off way more submissions than Morecraft, especially the triangle. His BJJ of his back (his trangle, his sweeps) is way more dangerous than Morecraft's also. Struve is still a badass purple belt, and Barry is still an ever-improving, yet very green BJJ player. Hunt, like Barry, is improving, but Struve still has way more years of BJJ practice under his belt.

Yeah dude, I'm not sure if I can take you seriously after reading this... You're not impressed with Barry's ground game because he was unsuccessful in submitting the much bigger and much much stronger Lavar Johnson?? LOL Are you fuking kidding me, dude?! The fact that he got Lavar in that position TO BEGIN WITH SPEAKS VOLUMES

And yes, surviving all of Morecraft's submission attempts (more than one armbar, if i'm not mistaken) does say plenty for the growth in his sub-defense... I was talking about his sub-defense, but you started talking about ground-game in general, but whatever... Barry's inability to submit Lavar is completely irrelevant to his sub-defense... but again, whatever... let's just ignore that...

if you think Struve could be as successful in getting Barry to the ground as Morecraft is, then you're just silly.

fosho14 · 05-17-12, 04:38 AM

So back to the topic at hand...hunt has demonstrated clear ways he can lose to struve (tapped to mccork) and Struve has demonstrated clear ways he can lose to hunt (many devastating KO losses). In summary, a no play? or not?

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 04:42 AM

Thing with Struve is he isnt going to be shooting a double leg or single so he is going to have to get on the inside to either pull guard or get a trip takedown which obviously puts him in a lot of danger.

gabe · 05-17-12, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Vitooch

I dont think Struve got lucky submitting Barry. He got a hold of Barry's neck, dragged him down in the process, and quickly sunk in a triangle. Barry was helpless against a very skilled BJJ player in Struve. While i agree he may have trouble taking to the fight to the ground ( which was a main concern in the Barry fight), If he does manage to get the fight to the ground,he should have no trouble submitting Hunt.

There is no evidence suggesting that Struve would be able to outpoint Hunt, a K-1 kickboxer. But there is blatant evidence that he has the ability to submit HunT

And also, since you deny that you are comparing Struve to Condit, let me be the one to compare the two. Condit is a much better kickboxer than Struve. Condit has the capability of employing such a strategy. Struve has not proven in any fights that he has the capability to do so.

Wow, you have no idea how dumb this sounds... There is no evidence? Do you need to have seen evidence of him kicking and running in order to believe that it is possible? If you were asked to coach Struve for this fight, would you say "Hey, don't try to kick and run because I've never seen you do that before..." ???

The fact is, that is his best chance at winning. Trying to take Hunt down is NOT his best chance at winning. Like you said, it won't be easy... and he will get knocked out in the process...

You are saying that you don't think Struve can kick and run for three rounds, but he can submit him, yet don't know how he will get the fight to the ground... dude, just please stop discussing this fight.

gabe · 05-17-12, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Thing with Struve is he isnt going to be shooting a double leg or single so he is going to have to get on the inside to either pull guard or get a trip takedown which obviously puts him in a lot of danger.

Ding ding ding... V, would you agree that employing a Condit-esque kick and run strategy for three rounds is his best bet for a win?

gabe · 05-17-12, 04:49 AM

I wanna go on record and say that Stefan Struve will NOT submit Mark Hunt. If he wins, it will be a decision.

The chances of him winning by submission are likely, but I am telling you it will not happen. If you are expecting Struve to win by submission, then either play Mark Hunt or the under.

But as I said before, I think Mark Hunt wins this, so my play is Mark Hunt hedged with the Over.

fosho14 · 05-17-12, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Thing with Struve is he isnt going to be shooting a double leg or single so he is going to have to get on the inside to either pull guard or get a trip takedown which obviously puts him in a lot of danger.

Ya it is very possible he could pull that off while avoiding being knocked out. This fight is stupid to bet on.

fosho14 · 05-17-12, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by gabe

I wanna go on record and say that Stefan Struve will NOT submit Mark Hunt.

Really? After everything thats been discussed, I definitely wouldn't rule that out man.

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by gabe

Ding ding ding... V, would you agree that employing a Condit-esque kick and run strategy for three rounds is his best bet for a win?

I think some guys might be obscuring the best way to win against Hunt and how Struve can win against Hunt. Obviously, the best way to win against Hunt is to get it to the ground and submit him. Problem is as I said above, it's highly unlikely we see Struve shooting a double which IMO would be the safest and easiest way to take down Hunt. So then you are relying on Struve being able to close the distance and get the trip or pull guard which is possible but puts him in to close quarters which is dangerous with Hunt. And moreover, there is no guarantee that Struve will even have the desire to take it to the mat...he doesn't always fight the smartest. So yes if it stays standing then clearly he needs to use his reach and stick and move on the outside and pick Hunt apart with push kicks, leg kicks and use the jab and get the decision, and I understand this what you are inferring by saying he needs to use a Condit-esque strategy. But again, goes back to what the best strategy is against Hunt and whether Struve has the capabilities to do that. I think the fact that Struve is a HW means it will be difficult to keep moving and picking Hunt apart for three rounds...obviously he's not going to be quick and cut angles like Condit did. But still, just circling on the outside may still be enough to avoid Hunt's power...but then as I said Struve doesn't really use his jab effectively (although it has improved in last couple fights) so its questionable whether he can pull it off and may be his undoing in this fight. When you say u dont see Struve subbing Hunt, are you saying that you dont see him subbing Hunt because he wont be able to get it to the ground? Or are you saying he wont be able to sub Hunt because of Hunt's sub defence? I think that may be where guys are challenging you as they believe you are saying the latter rather than former (I guess?)?

gabe · 05-17-12, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

I think some guys might be obscuring the best way to win against Hunt and how Struve can win against Hunt. Obviously, the best way to win against Hunt is to get it to the ground and submit him. Problem is as I said above, it's highly unlikely we see Struve shooting a double which IMO would be the safest and easiest way to take down Hunt. So then you are relying on Struve being able to close the distance and get the trip or pull guard which is possible but puts him in to close quarters which is dangerous with Hunt. And moreover, there is no guarantee that Struve will even have the desire to take it to the mat...he doesn't always fight the smartest. So yes if it stays standing then clearly he needs to use his reach and stick and move on the outside and pick Hunt apart with push kicks, leg kicks and use the jab and get the decision, and I understand this what you are inferring by saying he needs to use a Condit-esque strategy. But again, goes back to what the best strategy is against Hunt and whether Struve has the capabilities to do that. I think the fact that Struve is a HW means it will be difficult to keep moving and picking Hunt apart for three rounds...obviously he's not going to be quick and cut angles like Condit did. But still, just circling on the outside may still be enough to avoid Hunt's power...but then as I said Struve doesn't really use his jab effectively (although it has improved in last couple fights) so its questionable whether he can pull it off and may be his undoing in this fight. When you say u dont see Struve subbing Hunt, are you saying that you dont see him subbing Hunt because he wont be able to get it to the ground? Or are you saying he wont be able to sub Hunt because of Hunt's sub defence? I think that may be where guys are challenging you as they believe you are saying the latter rather than former (I guess?)?

Struve could totally sub Hunt, but I don't see this fight going there unless Hunt takes it there. I agree that employing a similar gameplan would not be easy for Struve for three rounds, which is why my money is on Hunt. Taking Hunt down won't be easy, and employing that gameplan won't be easy, which is why I like Hunt in the match-up.

gabe · 05-17-12, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by fosho14

Really? After everything thats been discussed, I definitely wouldn't rule that out man.

lmao wtf? nobody is ruling it out. i am just saying i don't see this fight playing out with mark hunt losing by submission.

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 05:30 AM

Might put a small play on Struve by decision if it reaches +700

Also be looking at Struve SOTN hedged with Not Struve inside the distance. Don't foresee any submission wins on the main card...Nelson subbing Herman is a possibility I guess, but then he hasnt subbed anybody since 2006 when he subbed a can

gabe · 05-17-12, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Might put a small play on Struve by decision if it reaches +700

Also be looking at Struve SOTN hedged with Not Struve inside the distance. Don't foresee any submission wins on the main card...Nelson subbing Herman is a possibility I guess, but then he hasnt subbed anybody since 2006 when he subbed a can

I think it's gonna be Nelson by TKO. If Struve could put Herman away, surely Nelson can.

Nelson vs Struve would be interesting too lol-- if they both win, I could see that match-up happening... probably wouldn't want a rematch with Happa! Or would he?! He thinks he was winning until the superman punch.

CaDDyy · 05-17-12, 07:10 AM

James Te Huna -160 over brandon vera. Is anyone else all over this? I don't give vera any chance at all to win.

gabe · 05-17-12, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by CaDDyy

James Te Huna -160 over brandon vera. Is anyone else all over this? I don't give vera any chance at all to win.

I don't give Vera much chance of winning round 1, but I give him a high chance of winning rounds 2 and 3, if he makes it there. Given his solid chin, it isn't unlikely he'll survive the early onslaught by Te Huna.

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by gabe

I think it's gonna be Nelson by TKO. If Struve could put Herman away, surely Nelson can.

Nelson vs Struve would be interesting too lol-- if they both win, I could see that match-up happening... probably wouldn't want a rematch with Happa! Or would he?! He thinks he was winning until the superman punch.

Doubt Nelson would want to fight Struve again...already KO'd him once

NunyaBidness · 05-17-12, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by gabe

I don't give Vera much chance of winning round 1, but I give him a high chance of winning rounds 2 and 3, if he makes it there. Given his solid chin, it isn't unlikely he'll survive the early onslaught by Te Huna.

I agree with this 100%

NunyaBidness · 05-17-12, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by gabe

oh, my bad... so he's saying i got lucky because what i thought would happen in that fight happened? lmao- my prediction of bruce leeroy outstriking escovedo and giving him his walking papers was not a ridiculous thing that ended up happening... he only sees it that way because he has terribly low MMA IQ... my predictions are spot on most of the time, so if you think they're ridiculous and i keep getting lucky, then you are a joke and need to just stop talking.

Or is he saying that I said Escovedo would win? I don't get it. Either way, dude is totally off his pills.

Your reading comprehension is very poor for someone who claims to have a supragenius IQ.

fosho14 · 05-17-12, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by gabe

lmao wtf? nobody is ruling it out. i am just saying i don't see this fight playing out with mark hunt losing by submission.

Ya I know, I was implying that I think it's surprising that your not more scared of that playing out than you are.

NunyaBidness · 05-17-12, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Doubt Nelson would want to fight Struve again...already KO'd him once

Avoiding obvious joke here.

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

Avoiding obvious joke here.

haha yeah was too easssy

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Doubt Nelson would want to fight Struve again...already KO'd him once

Easy paycheck for him, why wouldn't he? I'm sure Struve wants to get back at Nelson and Happa and I think he believes he could beat them. If I were either of them, I would take the re-match and knock him out again lol

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

Avoiding obvious joke here.

What is the obvious joke? "You didn't know they had already fought? Um... Delicious irony! Wait..."

lol fool

Vaughany · 05-17-12, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by gabe

Easy paycheck for him, why wouldn't he? I'm sure Struve wants to get back at Nelson and Happa and I think he believes he could beat them. If I were either of them, I would take the re-match and knock him out again lol

yeah, but Nelson seems to think he's better than he actually is. He's gonna all wiered and started hating on Frank Mir since he got the title shot...probably bitter that Hardy has left him and cuddling up with Mir now!

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

Your reading comprehension is very poor for someone who claims to have a supragenius IQ.

So, what did you say? I said Escovedo would win, but he didn't? Or I said Caceres would win and got lucky? You ain't making sense to me, man. But I see you realized u were talking out your ass and backed off.

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Vaughany

yeah, but Nelson seems to think he's better than he actually is. He's gonna all wiered and started hating on Frank Mir since he got the title shot...probably bitter that Hardy has left him and cuddling up with Mir now!

That dude is braindamaged lol Mir fkd him up--- if Struve didn't have the height and reach, he would never win a fight lol

NunyaBidness · 05-17-12, 01:32 PM

Your reading comprehension is very poor for someone who claims to have a supragenius IQ.

Originally posted by gabe

You ain't making sense to me, man.

I rest my case.

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by NunyaBidness

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I rest my case.

You have no case. You're an idiot who made a claim he couldn't back up so you "rest your case" lmao go take your meds, man.

gabe · 05-17-12, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by gabe

But I see you realized u were talking out your ass and backed off.

The most important part of my last post that he ignored... Again, realized he was talking out of his ass and backed off. All he can say is "I rest my case" without saying anything... Such a tool.

Don't make accusations you can't back up, you internet pu$$y.

Beelzebubzy · 05-17-12, 01:54 PM

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2004/04/specials/grammys03/moments/eminem.jpg

Vitooch · 05-17-12, 02:03 PM

Yeah dude, I'm not sure if I can take you seriously after reading this... You're not impressed with Barry's ground game because he was unsuccessful in submitting the much bigger and much much stronger Lavar Johnson?? LOL Are you fuking kidding me, dude?!

It's Lavar Johnson man...Whenever someone decent on the ground has taken Lavar down (Shawn Jordan, Shane Del Rosario), he has been submitted pretty easily.

Have you ever rolled a day in your life? Just because someone is bigger or stronger than another, doesn't mean he is unsubmittable. Technique surpasses physical abilities, especially for two guys of the same weight.

The reason he was unable to submit Lavar is because he is still rudimentary on the ground.

NunyaBidness · 05-17-12, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by gabe

The most important part of my last post that he ignored... Again, realized he was talking out of his ass and backed off. All he can say is "I rest my case" without saying anything... Such a tool.

Don't make accusations you can't back up, you internet pu$$y.

Whatever you tiny little freak.

gabe · 05-17-12, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Vitooch

Yeah dude, I'm not sure if I can take you seriously after reading this... You're not impressed with Barry's ground game because he was unsuccessful in submitting the much bigger and much much stronger Lavar Johnson?? LOL Are you fuking kidding me, dude?!

It's Lavar Johnson man...Whenever someone decent on the ground has taken Lavar down (Shawn Jordan, Shane Del Rosario), he has been submitted pretty easily.

Have you ever rolled a day in your life? Just because someone is bigger or stronger than another, doesn't mean he is unsubmittable. Technique surpasses physical abilities, especially for two guys of the same weight.

The reason he was unable to submit Lavar is because he is still rudimentary on the ground.

A) I am very impressed by Barry's ground game, and that is the only thing you could take away from everything I've said about Barry on this forum over the past month. I don't understand, from all I've said, how you could possibly take that I said Barry's ground game is still shitty... I had arguments with V defending and praising Barry's improved ground game... so I really have no idea where your head is at right now.

B) Do you know ANYTHING about Jiu Jitsu? The kimura + americana are strong man moves. You have to be stronger than your opponent to successfully pull it off. Not always the case, though. It's still POSSIBLE Barry could have submitted Lavar, but A) Lavar was stronger and B) he had decided that he would break his arm than tap out.

I don't get it... you just said I'm not impressed by Barry's ground game and laughed at it, then ended your post by saying Barry's ground game is rudimentary. You are just contradicting yourself.