UFC 141: Lesnar vs Overeem

[Beelzebubzy]

Lesnar took down Velasquez and it didn't help much. A wrestling background is great but you need solid ground-n-pound and submissions which Lesnar doesn't have. I don't see him laying on Overeem and staying there.

the Solid ground and pound that you mentioned can be argued by his performances against Randy, Mir 1 and Mir 2

In addition, his submissions skills would not be needed as most heavyweights are not BJJ black belts.

Furthermore, He was able to take Cain down however, Cain is very elusive and a decorated wrestler where he has been able to get back to his feet quickly. This fight is dependent on Lesnars top control and if his wrestlign is 'that good'

Note: When Lesnar won the NCAA title, it was a weaker division than when Cain won.

[morrismercury]

This is the juice battle. I watched a highlight reel on Overeem and he must of been 205lb when he fought Belfort. I don't know if Brock is ruined and can't take a punch. If Frank Mir didn't try to knee him he might have had a chance in the second fight. I would love to bet on Brock to win more money but I can't get the turtle roll out of my head. The Bleacher report stated that Overeem has been knocked out 7 times out of his eleven losses. I'm definitely picking Dos Santos over either one of these guys.

[Lick496]

This is the juice battle. I watched a highlight reel on Overeem and he must of been 205lb when he fought Belfort. I don't know if Brock is ruined and can't take a punch. If Frank Mir didn't try to knee him he might have had a chance in the second fight. I would love to bet on Brock to win more money but I can't get the turtle roll out of my head. The Bleacher report stated that Overeem has been knocked out 7 times out of his eleven losses. I'm definitely picking Dos Santos over either one of these guys.

If Overeem wins, and fights JDS, and is an underdog against him.... That will be my biggest bet to date. JDS is by no means a K-1 level striker

[Beelzebubzy]

Overeem is already a dog

"I can discredit the K-1 with two syllables: Bob Sapp

[BIGDAY]

Mr HandicapableQuote:
Originally Posted by BIGDAY
Trends are trends I guess.

One of our avitars will go down!

This fight will come down to if Lesnar can take Overeem down. I have 100% faith that he will and can, however it will only take one knee on the way for that takedown that will stun Brock and allow a swarm by Overeem for a stopage.


Lesnar took down Velasquez and it didn't help much. A wrestling background is great but you need solid ground-n-pound and submissions which Lesnar doesn't have. I don't see him laying on Overeem and staying there.

the Solid ground and pound that you mentioned can be argued by his performances against Randy, Mir 1 and Mir 2

In addition, his submissions skills would not be needed as most heavyweights are not BJJ black belts.

Furthermore, He was able to take Cain down however, Cain is very elusive and a decorated wrestler where he has been able to get back to his feet quickly. This fight is dependent on Lesnars top control and if his wrestlign is 'that good'

Note: When Lesnar won the NCAA title, it was a weaker division than when Cain won.

Completely agree. Even Randy Couture got up from Lesnar, but fighters like Couture, Cain, and even Carwin, have some of the best wrestling pedegree in MMA imo. I would expect Brock to not keep these guys down for the entire fight. Yet look how Brock can control Heath Herring, and even Mir on the ground pretty decisivly. Mir's BJJ is much more advanced than Overeem's imo so I'm not terribly worried about a sub unless it's a guillotine during the takedown. Brock was able to submit Carwin and if he is able to advance positioning if Overeem gets winded, I can see this happening rather easily as well.

Problem with a wager for Lesnar is if he gets hit. Seems stupid, but it's true. Even a crisp jab will stun him imo and open for a heavier flurry for Overeem. Overeem's camp has brought in Rosholt to help train take down defense. I don't think it's something that you can try and master in a couple months training complared to a life's worth. However, it's no surprise that Overeem wants to keep this fight standing and he will easily pick apart Lesnar's standup in a hurry imo.

Just how I see the fight. If Brock would demonstrate that he will not lose focus while being hit then I would easily have a wager on Lesnar here. However, against a clean striker like Overeem, there is no wager for me. Odds are probably spot on and not worth it imo.

GL

[SRBI]

For those of you who didn't know, this event will be streamed live (and for free) on XBOX 360 via the UFC app that you can download (for free) in the marketplace. For those of you who don't already own an XBOX, what the fkc are you waiting for? Goto your local electronics store and grab one right now

[gabe]

for those of you who didn't know,

"yo ass betta call somebodaaayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!"

[SRBI]

"yo ass betta call somebodaaayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!"

Vlade Divac was and still is the best basketball player on this planet. There, I said it.

[Vaughany]

This is the juice battle. I watched a highlight reel on Overeem and he must of been 205lb when he fought Belfort. I don't know if Brock is ruined and can't take a punch. If Frank Mir didn't try to knee him he might have had a chance in the second fight. I would love to bet on Brock to win more money but I can't get the turtle roll out of my head. The Bleacher report stated that Overeem has been knocked out 7 times out of his eleven losses. I'm definitely picking Dos Santos over either one of these guys.

Well if Brock cant take a punch then surely landing a knee was the best idea?!

[gabe]

Vlade Divac was and still is the best basketball player on this planet. There, I said it.

lol nick van exel is my all time fav

[morrismercury]

Cro Crop was a K1 level fighter and look what happened to him. Dos Santos is only getting better and he will not sit on the belt like some of the heavyweights from the past. Overeem didn't look that great in his last fight and is probably alot slower because of the muscle he put on. How is his chin? Pride fighters fought too much and never trained the appropriate time for a fight. It was like the old UFC where a light heavyweight would fight a heavyweight. Shane Carwin was a good fighter and he was unrecognizable after his fight with Santos. He is no Giant Silva or Bob Sapp. I will pony up the juice to win an easy $100

[morrismercury]

After Mir's first round beating. He hit Brock in the secound round and had Brock backing up. He tried to throw a knee and Brock caught it and pancacked him to the mat.

[Vaughany]

After Mir's first round beating. He hit Brock in the secound round and had Brock backing up. He tried to throw a knee and Brock caught it and pancacked him to the mat.

I thought the knee kind of landed?

[morrismercury]

I think the Pride heavyweights were better during that era because Tim Sylvia and Andre Orlofsky were the top dogs in the UFC.

[proposition joe]

JDS isn't a "k1 level striker". But neither was Overeem and he blew through their tournament. Besides Badr Hari, Schilt, and maybe Ghita, "k1 level strikers" would all be outstruck in an MMA setting by Dos Santos. The whole stigmata that goes with k1 experience is a bit overvalued.

[Vaughany]

JDS isn't a "k1 level striker". But neither was Overeem and he blew through their tournament. Besides Badr Hari, Schilt, and maybe Ghita, "k1 level strikers" would all be outstruck in an MMA setting by Dos Santos. The whole stigmata that goes with k1 experience is a bit overvalued.

And Gokhan Saki

[sideloaded]

Isn't Brock K-1 Level?



pretty sure that was a k-1 event

[morrismercury]

Brock took one on the chin with that knee but once Mir fell on his back it was over. He hurt brock with some punches before that Mui Tai knee. He should have tried to keep the fight standing up and I'm sure he will if they fight again. Someone said he won't be able to do anything if he takes Overeem to the ground. He might throw some awkward punches but how big are his gloves. He can do some real damage with hammer fists and short punches. I'm wondering if can take Overeem's punches

[Vaughany]

Brock took one on the chin with that knee but once Mir fell on his back it was over. He hurt brock with some punches before that Mui Tai knee. He should have tried to keep the fight standing up and I'm sure he will if they fight again. Someone said he won't be able to do anything if he takes Overeem to the ground. He might throw some awkward punches but how big are his gloves. He can do some real damage with hammer fists and short punches. I'm wondering if can take Overeem's punches

So he can take a knee to the chin but cant take a punch?

[morrismercury]

I remember showing my friends a highlight reel on Cro-Cop before he was in the UFC. I went to a gathering and had everyone convinced he was going to kill Gabriel Gonzaga. He came out to his traditional Duran Duran song "Wild Boys" and had everyone laughing. It was not like Hogans entrance against the Sheik to Eye of the Tiger to get you fired up. One of the most devastating knockouts in the UFC. If i'm not mistaken wasn't Cro-Cop the best K-1 fighter before he joined Pride

[morrismercury]

You got me on this one. Brock does have his left knee and the video looks like the slow motion cam at the end of the round. He didn't pancake him and that is why you got the two points.

[Vaughany]

You got me on this one. Brock does have his left knee and the video looks like the slow motion cam at the end of the round. He didn't pancake him and that is why you got the two points.

ha I got the two points because Gabe owes me points for the contest we're are doing! Not trying to call you out on it, just think that we should be cautious about the whole Lesnar not having a chin thing. IMO that knee that Mir landed would of buckled a lot of fighters, and the fact that Lesnar took it then went on to destroy Mir shows that he is tough and does have great resilience - the Carwin fight also showed this of course. But regardless of all this, if Overeem connects with a solid hook or knee or whatever, Lesnar is going to drop or fade considerably - doesn't matter if u are Brock or Velasquez, if somebody like Overeem connects it's going to hurt.

[proposition joe]

CroCop was better in MMA than he was in k1. Hoost, Sefo, Aerts all in their primes at that point

[brooks85]

apparently they are going to release more free ppv's of 141 for XBOX live users who download the UFC app.

http://twitter.com/UFCONXboxLIVE

[morrismercury]

Mir was about twenty pounds smaller during that fight. I think he was cocky and thought he was going to get the same result as the first fight. To be fair to all the heavyweights Brock should have never been able to get the belt without having at least ten fights. His first fight was a tomato can. The second fight against Heath Herrin was a good win. Couture was old and came into the fight at about 205lbs. If Couture was in his prime and fighting at his heaviest weight, Couture would win. Brock is a tough guy but I think he could be damaged goods. He hasn't fought in how long due to illness? His last two fights were very rough outings and he is getting older. Is he still the same size when he fought Mir and Herrin? Size matters for Brock to win. If he was the same juiced out size as WWE he would have been a handful for anybody. His wrestling skills, youth and size would have been unstoppable. Maybe a veteran opponent would have tapped him out once in a while during the learning process. That veteran opponent would have been Couture

[BIGDAY]

Maybe it's just me but I think Lesnar would walk through the lower end of the heavyweight division. Smart of UFC to not waste 10 fights just to get him a 10-0 record IMO. I dont think he wanted to be protected anyhow. There are other fighters that do however want to be protected, but thats a whole other topic.
But there are probably many that think the Mexicutioner would walk through Lesnar.

Mercury, should I lay large on Overeem?

Mir was about twenty pounds smaller during that fight. I think he was cocky and thought he was going to get the same result as the first fight. To be fair to all the heavyweights Brock should have never been able to get the belt without having at least ten fights. His first fight was a tomato can. The second fight against Heath Herrin was a good win. Couture was old and came into the fight at about 205lbs. If Couture was in his prime and fighting at his heaviest weight, Couture would win. Brock is a tough guy but I think he could be damaged goods. He hasn't fought in how long due to illness? His last two fights were very rough outings and he is getting older. Is he still the same size when he fought Mir and Herrin? Size matters for Brock to win. If he was the same juiced out size as WWE he would have been a handful for anybody. His wrestling skills, youth and size would have been unstoppable. Maybe a veteran opponent would have tapped him out once in a while during the learning process. That veteran opponent would have been Couture

[The HOFF]

apparently they are going to release more free ppv's of 141 for XBOX live users who download the UFC app.

http://twitter.com/UFCONXboxLIVE

Just found out about this.

Hopefully they release more!!

[Poppa Catfish]

And Gokhan Saki

What about K-1 star Bob Sapp

[Vaughany]

What about K-1 star Bob Sapp

Shiit yeah how could I forget. His victory against Seth Petruzelli was a true classic!

[Poppa Catfish]

I completely agree with prop joe, except for his inclusion of Semmy. 4 oz gloves do nothing for his game, seeing as how he can't exactly just sit behind a wall of jabs against Junior. Would be a fun fight to watch though

Saki on the other hand has a shot, imho

[Vaughany]

Looking forward to Saki vs Badr Hari...January is gonna be stacked with events!...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slwwYo7sMaI

[proposition joe]

Saki is legit but Ill take Hari 1st rd KO

[proposition joe]

Are k1 or Its Showtime lines ever available to US players?

[Vaughany]

Not sure, think Unibet is only site that I've ever seen offer odds for K1 They've got Saki at 2/1 currently.

[Poppa Catfish]

Bodog had lines for the last K-1 grand prix (at least that is what I recall, think Over was second favorite to win it all), but nothing up for this event. Which I think is fairly typical.