BetOnline.com Legit? Answer to come...

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 01:58 AM

I spoke with Marshall, the BetOnline casino manager earlier today. Apparently he has been traveling a lot and he apologized for any lack/delay in communication. He was actually still out of town today but had asked that any calls regarding my account be forwarded to his cell phone. On a positive note, it is reassuring that an effort is being made to keep a line of communication open to me. I would like to hope that it shows that BetOnline.com's intentions are sincere, and that if they were planning on stiffing me regardless, that they wouldn't even bother making an effort to keep me in the loop.

On to the status of the situation specifically, unfortunately nothing has changed. Marshall explained that they are still waiting to hear back from their security company with an explanation as to why my account was tagged with 44 unique numbers, which under normal circumstances would indicate that my account was accessed from 44 unique "devices" (computers). Apparently BetOnline is only able to see 44 unique number string ("tags"), which by themselves do not mean anything. In other words, they are more or less reference numbers which only their security company can provide more information on. If the security company does not determine that the problem was on their side and that my computer was tagged repeatedly, Marshall ensured me that they will be able to provide me with information on the 44 "devices", including model numbers and specifications. Marshall said that he had already followed up with the security company once regarding the progress of their investigation, but until he receives a conclusive explanation from them, there are no decisions on his side that can be made.

I cannot imagine that BetOnline is trying to build this story to get out of paying me and I’m lead to believe their system must really be showing (for whatever reason) something that would normally indicate the use of 44 different computers. Almost more farfetched than having used 44 computers to manipulate their system, would be them being able to provide model numbers/specs of 44 different computers and information as to how/when each logged in/out. For one, I was only playing blackjack and the timestamps of the hands will show that I probably was banging out 10 hands per minute each time I sat down to play. Not once did I ever not follow the basic strategy chart and I always played with the “fast deal” option which should show consistency in how many hands I played per minute. I will be sure to post a follow up as soon as I hear anything.

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 02:14 AM

Because I Know People Are Wondering And Will Ask

If you are wondering how multiple computers would provide some sort of edge, please do not ask me because I have not been able to find out the answer. I took my account all the way up to $40k, then I lost it all with the exception of a pending football bet (Packers Monday night) which ended up winning, yielding $3k. From the $3k, I went to $23k, then to $43k, then to $71k, all in 3 consecutive nights. Apparently the 44 tags were made throughout the time my account was opened, so there is not even ANY correlation between the “tags” and my winnings. Lastly, if I purchased 44 computers because I realized that it would allow me to somehow scam online blackjack, does anyone really think I would be bringing so much attention to the matter, especially on boards that are apparently read by the casinos themselves?

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 02:32 AM

sorry halifax, but you got it wrong. before jumping to conclusions about posters being the same person, it would be fair if you had more evidence other than it appearing that way. in fact, if you read, you'll see that my opinion regarding the situation is completely different than the poster you accused me of being disguised as.

Originally posted by Halifax

Any chance you could log out, log back in under the 'jokerfly' handle, and give us an update ?

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 02:59 AM

jokerfly- Right or wrong why would you ghost?

Post #1 as jokerfly you have the word investigation as "investigation", in quotation marks.

Post #29 as Mice Mayan you have only one word in quotation marks and that's "investigation"

You are about the only person that posts that many words and only has one paragraph.

If you are owed money do not lie and do not ghost.

While I agreed with you and would have been on your side, now I'm not sure.

Nice catch Halifax

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 03:07 AM

How many other people have played with BOL and made a withdrawal? I'd like to see if anyone else has had a problem.

I made 1 withdrawal. It was a check sent Fed Ex and took 5 days.

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 03:08 AM

i have no idea what ghosting is. how about this, if the IP addresses match for me and that user, I'll forfeit my case all together. In fact, you can have the money.

**SBR Lou** · 11-09-07, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by jokerfly

how about this, if the IP addresses match for me and that user, I'll forfeit my case all together. In fact, you can have the money.

Pretty bold statement. But hypothetically, if you have 44 computers, wouldn't the IPs vary?

**louis** · 11-09-07, 03:31 AM

They are not smart or organized; advise avoiding them

There is a unique identifier that each computer as part of the system board. The IP address usually goes together with the number broadcast with the device, but the IP address is actually different. The IP address is a unique identifier given to your computer on the internet. It is usually static and doesn't change, but with dial up service, your computer can be assigned different numbers each and every time.

BOL needs to pay this person and stop this nonsense. My guess is they are in fact confused about all these different numbers, which may be unusual. Perhaps the user did use different computers in the library, Kinkos, dormitory, or internet cafe. But so what, until it is against the rules to use different computers, the results of this investigation are not going to change the fact this person needs to be paid. Maybe the person is using dial up and his dial up service is assigning different IP addresses each time. Most people use high speed now, so BOL hasn't seen this. Some dial up services will assign the same IP address often for the same person. There is nothing for a security company to investigate. This computer manager needs to get an education and not just in computers but also in customer relationship management.

BOL's software is the same as used by CRIS, the GREEK, and a lot of other books. The software is fair. It can not be cheated. You can get lucky and win. I watched a friend play once at Jamaica and win $5000 making $200 bets in 20 minutes. It happens. Time to pay this guy and stop this nonsense. People get lucky and win.

I myself am having an issue with BOL because of their stupidity and lack of organization. I am undecided yet whether to start a thread, contact SBR, or try to talk to them myself, or just stop using them and downgrade them to B- in my own mine. They offer good bets, but then give me a lot of headaches.

Buying 44 computers can not scam computer software. What it could do is help you open up multiple accounts, and with different system board ids, IP addresses, different names, addresses, and other identity info, you could get multiple bonuses. Does this look like the scam this guy was trying to pull off? Of course not. 44 computers would cost about $40K exactly what he won. This is absolute nonsense.

TIME TO PAY HIM. Olympic would pay him now. Wsex would pay him now. 5 Dimes would pay him now. Legendz would pay him now. Pinnacle would pay him now.

What the Heck is wrong with Betonline?????

**SBR Lou** · 11-09-07, 03:51 AM

Louis you make a pretty good point. I don't think they're baffled by the # of identifiers so much as they are him running up a 70k balance.

If these guys are worth the ratings John and others swear they are, this player should be fine here. What if he never heard of SBR though? That's what I wonder.

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 04:04 AM

One thing that I'd like to add. joker's owed a lot of money. Even if he ghost posts that has no effect on whether he should be paid or not.

Also, I don't care how many computers that you use in the casino. Why would this have any effect?

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 04:09 AM

I am undecided yet whether to start a thread, contact SBR, or try to talk to them myself

Why are you so undecided? You should just use the live chat, then go to SBR, then the forums.

**louis** · 11-09-07, 04:35 AM

Their management doesn't get it: Basic Strategy Works

In fairness to BOL, I will say that they have paid me 4 figure amounts routinely.

I will talk to their management tomorow about a customer service issue I have. If they resolve my issue, and resolve this person's $40,000 issue, i may continue playing with them but the amount of time they are taking to investigate this account is ridiculous and not fair to this player at all.

What they need to understand at BOL is that basic strategy works, and virtually eliminates any house edge - especially with bonuses and rebates. Basic Strategy is not cheating and does not warrant freezing an account for a week or more.

If 100 people played $1000 to $5000 a hand, perfect basic strategy, and we each started with $5000, slightly less than one in nine of us would win $40,000 and slightly more than eight in nine of use would reach zero. I assume these people would never bet more than one quarter of their remaining stake so that they could split and double down, properly. I also assume they are playing the bj pays 3 to 2, double after split, S17 game, not the single deck bj pays 6 to 5 crap.

This person posting here who is being investigated may have been betting up to $5,000 - who knows. Even betting only $1000 at a time, basic strategy virtually eliminates the house edge and playing hour after hour increases the variance until targets such as $50K are sometimes reached. There are people who routinely play microgaming casinos and win $100,000 at a time.

So the manager is hiring a security team which probably knows nothing about basic strategy. So the security team will say: "we don't know".

There may possibly be a case to cheat the software by disconnecting when dealt a hand that one does not like, and then reconnecting with another computer and getting a new hand. This was possible with some of the older software but would be rare to see in a software product today. The old Casino On Net offered this opportunity. Anyone who thought it was worth stealing this way, rather than taking advantage of all of Casino On Net's promotion, would be stupid anyhow.

A computer person should be able to check this quickly and not make this person wait for a week. Also, if this person wanted to cheat this software why not do it at Greek, or CRIS, which also offer this same software, and are much more likely to pay him?

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 04:37 AM

The IP addresses was not an issue or complaint. It was confirmed that my account was only accessed from 3 IP addresses. One was my mother's house, one was my house, and one was from a friends house just to place a wager on the Rockies (world series game 1). That's a total of 3 IP's and 3 computers. 99.9% of the time I was on this computer as I had to stay at my mom's house for most of last month and took my computer along with me. The reason I feel confident is that it would be almost impossible for BetOnline to expect to be able to back up the claim they have made. My play was consistent and took place in big chunks of time...it was not at all sporadic like it would be if i had my house covered in computers jumping from one to the next. That is the reason I said in my post a couple of hours ago that I believe BetOnline truly feels they have reason to investigate, but when all is said and done, they will figure out what went wrong on their side to show what they are showing.

Originally posted by louis

There is a unique identifier that each computer as part of the system board. The IP address usually goes together with the number broadcast with the device, but the IP address is actually different. The IP address is a unique identifier given to your computer on the internet.

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 04:54 AM

That is one of the first things I asked....if the cards are random, why would it matter? The response was something along the lines of "maybe a hacker would be able to use multiple computers together to see the dealers down card." Due to the fact that I followed the basic strategy chart down to the T, that "possibility" was quickly dismissed. It is understandable though that BOL wants to be absolutely certain they weren't cheated before a payout that large.

Originally posted by louis

Buying 44 computers can not scam computer software.

**louis** · 11-09-07, 05:03 AM

jokerfly, as I mentioned in my last post it may be possible to disconnect a computer when dealt an undesirable hand, such as 16 vs. a dealer 10. Casino On Net's old software would allow players to void out some hands like this. Also, you don't have to buy 44 computers, you can go to the library and use 44 different computers.

But do I think you cheated them?

No. I think you played Basic Strategy and got lucky.

The possibilities above, should take them hours to investigate and not weeks.

By the way, how much were you betting per hand? If you want to play basic strategy at a good casino, try out the microgaming classic single deck. The house edge with basic strategy is less than 1 tenth of 1%.

**louis** · 11-09-07, 05:19 AM

I am now 100% sure there was no cheating here

I have two computers in my house, with two different IP addresses. I played $10 a hand on BOL's software, and then disconnected after receiving an undesirable hand. I then reconnected using a different device and different IP device. The same hand was there waiting for me.

I also tried using two different devices, with the same IP address. I could not void out an undesirable hand.

And finally I tried two different IP addresses with the same device. I could not void out an undesirable hand.

I did not actually do this at BOL, but with the same software.

I am now 100% convinced that there is no way to cheat this software using multiple devices.

I have many years in the computer profession.

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 05:23 AM

Like I said, I went up, then down (to just a pending bet), then all of the way up. On my way down, I dropped $20k within an hour. The next day I continued to lose, and aside from the pending bet I already had placed, I made additional deposits which I quickly pissed away. Had the Packers not have won Monday night, I would have never had the $3k to run up to $71k, and I would've been unable to deposit for at least a few more days because of E-Wallet Express' weekly limit.

Their table max is $1k a hand, but I'd say my average bet was under $400. Overall, I gave the casino over $3 million in action....I was keeping track of that because they are suppose to give out a $1k bonus for $1 million in action. Go to their site and check out the High Roller Rewards.

Originally posted by louis

This person posting here who is being investigated may have been betting up to $5,000 - who knows. Even betting only $1000 at a time, basic strategy virtually eliminates the house edge and playing hour after hour increases the variance until targets such as $50K are sometimes reached.

**louis** · 11-09-07, 05:35 AM

Right, so you played basic strategy in hopes of earning the bonus. I admire your courage, because the variance of playing a million dollars in action is huge. You could have lost a lot of money. But you can also win a lot. This casino, if they understood basic strategy, and variance, would pay you right away. Like I said, i'm in the computer field, I ran about an hour of tests on their software - the same software used by Olympic, CRIS, and most SB's these days, and it can not be cheated using multiple devices or IPs. I can't guarantee it has no bugs, but these would be just as likely to favor the player as the casino, and this software seems very very solid. The tests I did took about one hour. It prooves that multiple devices and/or IP address can not cheat them. I have also played a lot of blackjack, and know basic strategy very well. There is no way you cheated them. They need to pay out, and do it now. They need to know if folks are going to give them $1 million in action, they are going to be getting $50,000 winners occasionally, and each and everyone of these people should be treated like a king, win or lose. That is A LOT of action. They are no doubt baffled how you gave them $3 million in action and did not lose. The answer is basic strategy. And the variance went your way. They don't get it. SBR should explain to them basic strategy and how it cuts down the house edge. Also, by the way, the fact you played perfect basic strategy is in fact very convincing evidence that you were not playing a strategy to cheat them. Your decisions are all explained, none of them are odd or unusual. Please contact assistance@sportsbookreview.com if you haven't already. You have a very good case - all the evidence is in your favor.

**Dumb_lucK** · 11-09-07, 05:48 AM

Great thread... now lets wait and see what Bill, John and the crew come up with as this is still in the early stages as opposed to stating that this outfit just "better pay" i'm certain they will, however unless you deal with software techs directly with regards to online casino gaming, it can be a lengthly amount of time to get a full investigation completed. It's not a 60 minute proceedure BTW.

Joker, co-operate with SBR, give em the info they need and read the http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-ta...ll-pay-1k.html thread on the do's and don't of making a claim!!

And just offhand, you don't like the color in this line do you??

**louis** · 11-09-07, 06:07 AM

Dumb luck, the software was already tested when it was created. To make sure multiple devices can't cheat the software takes about one hour. If this was new software that would be a different story. Remember that this is already the favorite casino software of most sportsbooks. It doesn't need to be retested by BOL now. it is time to pay the guy. He may have not notified SBR. If he has not, then that was a mistake. He should do this now. How long do you think it should take BOL to ask the software provider if the software has a bug in which it can be cheated with multiple devices? Again, in my opinion, one hour. Olympic, WSEX, 5 dimes, Legendz, they would have paid this by now. There would be no "early stage". An A rated book should not have an early stage for a $40,000 casino win after someone just gave them $3 million in action playing perfect basic strategy.

**Dumb_lucK** · 11-09-07, 06:15 AM

Well then according to that, by all means he should have his money.. though like every other thread we've seen with regards to not being paid, there's always something else.

Yes the software i'm sure is tested prior, however developers do make tweaks, upgrades and perhaps mistakes which we have seen in other posts as well. Lets let the gang go on with this as obviously you and me saying "Pay him" won't get it done' quicker.

Hopefully Joker will come back with fresh joyeous information, and yes, what if it did happen at Olympic, WSEX, 5 dimes, Legendz and there was some software glitch or they sent an account in for audit to verify funds? Would it be Okay then?

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 07:36 AM

I actually submitted the SBR form a couple of days ago. They have not responded to me directly but I believe they have been in contact with BOL. There is no harm in letting BOL do what they have to do. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in that they really are seeing something that is out of the ordinary, and if that is the case, I can see why they are wanting to be extra pre-cautious before such a large payout. If they were planning on stiffing me, I don't think they would've backed themselves into the place they are at right now.

Originally posted by louis

Please contact assistance@sportsbookreview.com if you haven't already. You have a very good case - all the evidence is in your favor.

**ShamsWoof10** · 11-09-07, 10:14 AM

What bothers me is ONE manager who is out of town is directing your calls to his cell phone... This sounds like a mom and pop type of book...

I think BOL, SBR's so called A book, is f*ckin' around... I'll be interested to see what happens... If you get stiffed I'll have a field day rippin' SBR's rating system... I have played there before and this is no f*ckin' A book... I hope you get paid!!!

**Rollins08** · 11-09-07, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by ShamsWoof10

What bothers me is ONE manager who is out of town is directing your calls to his cell phone... This sounds like a mom and pop type of book...

I think BOL, SBR's so called A book, is f*ckin' around... I'll be interested to see what happens... If you get stiff I'll have a field day rippin' SBR's rating system... I have played there before and this is no f*ckin' A book... I hope you get paid!!!

This is a problem with BOL. They only have one manager who can handle a problem. If he is in a meeting you have to call back, and they are always in meeting. It would be nice to have more than one person with the authority to handle a problem. Joker will get paid, they have always been good with that.

**NiceMaaan** · 11-09-07, 10:50 AM

Raiders--

I am sorry I don't post one sentence paragraphs like you

Here, is this better?

Why are you all so paranoid on here? I am simply staing my opinion about the BOL system like all of you are.

You must have a great deal of time on your hands to go through everyone's posts on here and see who puts the same words in quotations.

Anyway, back to the ACTUAL topic.

If Joker didn't use 45 computers, and he did play basic strategy, what is the investigation about? (no quotes this time on investigation..is that better for you?) IMHO, they are trying to fabricate some evidence right now so they can make Joker look like he was cheating. They can't afford really to pay him his money, so they want to make him at fault so they can keep thier rating. Like it was noted by other posters, the fact that they only have one casino manager makes it seem like they are in over thier heads, and are either trying to fabricate evidence against joker or maybe hoping for a good run in football this weekend so they can get the money to pay him. Lets hope he gets paid

Raiders

Sorry

Again

For

Not

Writing

Small

Tiny

Paragraphs

Like

You

**Rollins08** · 11-09-07, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by NiceMaaan

They can't afford really to pay him his money, so they want to make him at fault so they can keep thier rating.
You

I think your jumping the gun a bit on this one. We should let this play out before saying they can't afford to pay him. Plus we have to make sure his story is true. Betonline is not perfect but no book is. I can make a case that they are the best book I have used.

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 11:13 AM

Maaan - I was a forum owner at one time and ghosts are easy to spot.

You just joined SBR, all your posts are about jokerfly, you both don't use paragraphs, the only word you used in quotations in your long post was investigation and jokerfly also puts qoutation marks when using the word investigation.

You both talk about basic strategy when there aren't many other posters that even mention that.

jokerfly has been around the block but doesn't know what ghosting is.

Ghosting has nothing to do on whether you get paid or not. I'd like to see a lot more such as if the winnings were from the sportsbook instead of the casino as you say. Did you circumvent limits?

As a one time mod, forum owner and long time poster there's a lot more to this story imo.

And why are you so mad if you don't have a personal interest?

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 11:21 AM

Forgot to mention. You guys were both on line after midnight last night and have both logged in right around this time.

**jokerfly** · 11-09-07, 11:59 AM

except for the fact that nicemann keeps saying that BOL is hoping i'll lose my money and that will take care of the problem for them. i've said on more than one occasion that my account is completely locked up, so does that really make sense. nicemann, beat it, you are only hurting my case. really please stop posting, you've voiced your opinion and don't need to repeat it so raider can say im ghosting.

Originally posted by raiders72002

Forgot to mention. You guys were both on line after midnight last night and have both logged in right around this time.

**NiceMaaan** · 11-09-07, 12:44 PM

Ok then. I'm out. Hope you don't get paid. Your fault for not using a better book Joker. Raiders you have no idea what you are talking about btw. Get a life and stop trying to be some cyber sleuth, seeing when I login and what time I post. You are really not that smart. You and Joker are both morons.

**Rollins08** · 11-09-07, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by NiceMaaan

Ok then. I'm out. Hope you don't get paid. Your fault for not using a better book Joker. Raiders you have no idea what you are talking about btw. Get a life and stop trying to be some cyber sleuth, seeing when I login and what time I post. You are really not that smart. You and Joker are both morons.

This would be really funny if NiceMaaan and Joker are the same person. I hope they are and Joker is trying to come up with ways to throw us off my calling himself a moron.

**Halifax** · 11-09-07, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Rollins08

This would be really funny if NiceMaaan and Joker are the same person. I hope they are and Joker is trying to come up with ways to throw us off my calling himself a moron.

LOL .. funny, but true ... that's exactly what's happening.

**HedgeHog** · 11-09-07, 02:08 PM

There's some weird "Cybil" shit going on here. How many personalities does Joker have? More importantly, should he collect if one of his other personalities was using the multiple devices w/o his knowledge? Finally, is SexyGamblerChick in there, too? If so, bring her out as we still have some unresolved issues from another thread.

**raiders72002** · 11-09-07, 03:03 PM

jokerfly- How about posting a screen shot of your wagers showing how you got your balance up to $70k playing black jack while losing in the sportsbook.

**Dark Horse** · 11-09-07, 07:44 PM

I could see how using four or five computers could give someone an edge at an internet poker table. But 45 computers in quick hands of blackjack? Nothing there.