1. #1
    sadekmeister
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    Bookmaker.eu bet settlement doubts

    I've placed bet on Bookmaker.eu on Korean baseball game KT Wiz Suwon - KIA Tigers. My bet was over 9,5 and match was suspended due to rain in 5th inning with score 0-10 and that score was declared official.
    Bookmaker voided my bet and I'm not sure they had the right to do it.

    Their rules regarding suspended/postponed baseball games say:
    All wagers placed on markets whose outcomes have already been determined will have action!

    For me it seems pretty clear that I should won my bet.

  2. #2
    Headsterx
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    I don't have BM account but their sister site at JustBet. I always thought the industry standard, basically Vegas standard, is followed by everyone regarding baseball total which is the following:

    Bets on the total are official after 8˝ innings if the home team is ahead, or after 9 full innings if the visiting team is ahead.

  3. #3
    Optional
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  4. #4
    Optional
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  5. #5
    Optional
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    "For full game bets to have action, the game must reach official game time with a winner declared, within 36 hours of the scheduled start time, regardless of venue."

    Is the key clause.

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  6. #6
    Alfa1234
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    In the yellow box it also clearly states that all wagers with a determined outcome have action...dubious at best.

  7. #7
    Grumsi
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    This is no brainer. The Book should pay you immediately after the outcome was determined. You bet on over 9.5, score was 0-10, you won!! Anything else, any dubious clause, any additional debate, anything at all.... Is there to scam you. Everyone in this thread protecting the book's "rules", or trying to explain why they didn't pay you, are getting paid by the book or have some other benefits for doing so.

    You got scammed! That is that. Ignore everyone who is here to protect the book and remember them for future interactions, so you will not waste time discussing with them. That is all I can advise you.
    Last edited by Grumsi; 06-14-20 at 07:52 AM.

  8. #8
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa1234 View Post
    In the yellow box it also clearly states that all wagers with a determined outcome have action...dubious at best.
    You didn't start betting yesterday. Can you nominate any US facing book who pays out full game totals without the game going the distance?

    Do you think this repeated line is invalid "Beginning with the 2020 MLB season, all full game bets are official after 8˝ innings if the home team is ahead, or after 9 full innings if the visiting team is ahead. This includes moneyline, total runs (over/under) and Run Line bets."?


    "All wagers placed on markets whose outcomes have already been determined will have action!

    Example: when you bet on 'will a run be scored in the 1st inning', the bet will have action as soon as the market is official (the first inning ends), even if the game is suspended after that."

    The full game totals market was never officially determined, as it has not met the criteria to go the distance.


    Sure if you pluck that line out of context it may have some ambiguity to a newbie I guess, but I'd like to hear from anyone who bets baseball who does not already know this is how it is graded when matches are shortened. Or thinks Totals bets should be graded anything but void under the Bookmaker.eu stated rules.

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  9. #9
    BeatPete
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    Short game equals action on money line and NO Action on run lines and totals. This isn't some new rule or anything.

  10. #10
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumsi View Post
    This is no brainer. The Book should pay you immediately after the outcome was determined. You bet on over 9.5, score was 0-10, you won!! Anything else, any dubious clause, any additional debate, anything at all.... Is there to scam you. Everyone in this thread protecting the book's "rules", or trying to explain why they didn't pay you, are getting paid by the book or have some other benefits for doing so.

    You got scammed! That is that. Ignore everyone who is here to protect the book and remember them for future interactions, so you will not waste time discussing with them. That is all I can advise you.
    This post is nonsense. Those pesky “rules” you downplay are vital to soortsbetting. If we allow books to not follow the rules, then we have anarchy. No one could ever confidently place a wager, The rules are there for all to read before you place your wager, so it’s not some grand conspiracy to rob players of their winnings.

    To illustrate this point, imagine being a player who bet u9.5 on this game. If Bookmaker gave you a LOSS when their rules said that the game outcome wasn’t official, you would be here complaining that they robbed you and demanding that you get your money back.

  11. #11
    big joe 1212
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    This game was ruled final after 5 innings.

    Totals were all voided.

    I have over 10.5. It was first graded as a loss, after I contacted them, they said it was already under review. An hour later, my wager was refunded "no action"

    If that game continued the next day, your bet would have pended until they finished, as long as it was resumed within 36 hours (rules for betting KBO).

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  12. #12
    sadekmeister
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    This game was ruled final after 5 innings.

    Totals were all voided.

    I have over 10.5. It was first graded as a loss, after I contacted them, they said it was already under review. An hour later, my wager was refunded "no action"

    If that game continued the next day, your bet would have pended until they finished, as long as it was resumed within 36 hours (rules for betting KBO).
    The difference between our bets was that outcome of market o/u 9,5 was determined, but o/u 10,5 was not.
    I placed also under 9,5 bet in another bookie and it was settled as lost. And to be honest I think it's more fair, because bets on under 9,5 lost, that is the fact, no matter the game was finished or not.

  13. #13
    Grumsi
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTailMe View Post
    This post is nonsense. Those pesky “rules” you downplay are vital to soortsbetting. If we allow books to not follow the rules, then we have anarchy. No one could ever confidently place a wager, The rules are there for all to read before you place your wager, so it’s not some grand conspiracy to rob players of their winnings.

    To illustrate this point, imagine being a player who bet u9.5 on this game. If Bookmaker gave you a LOSS when their rules said that the game outcome wasn’t official, you would be here complaining that they robbed you and demanding that you get your money back.
    Completely wrong! If I bet there will be under 9.5 on a game, and I am watching a game, and the score is 10-0, then I know I lost my bet. No complains! It is all about logic. Every unlogical "rules" are there to protect the book. Stop protecting unlogical rules!

  14. #14
    Alfa1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    You didn't start betting yesterday. Can you nominate any US facing book who pays out full game totals without the game going the distance?

    Do you think this repeated line is invalid "Beginning with the 2020 MLB season, all full game bets are official after 8˝ innings if the home team is ahead, or after 9 full innings if the visiting team is ahead. This includes moneyline, total runs (over/under) and Run Line bets."?


    "All wagers placed on markets whose outcomes have already been determined will have action!

    Example: when you bet on 'will a run be scored in the 1st inning', the bet will have action as soon as the market is official (the first inning ends), even if the game is suspended after that."

    The full game totals market was never officially determined, as it has not met the criteria to go the distance.


    Sure if you pluck that line out of context it may have some ambiguity to a newbie I guess, but I'd like to hear from anyone who bets baseball who does not already know this is how it is graded when matches are shortened. Or thinks Totals bets should be graded anything but void under the Bookmaker.eu stated rules.

    You know I didn't start betting yesterday, all I'm saying is, make it clear to avoid misconceptions. I often "think" I know how something is graded but things like this are fairly rare so I have to look them up whenever something happens.

    How hard is it really for a book to not-highlight a rule in a big yellow box if the box is not what they mean exactly? Why not simply say "All wagers placed on markets whose outcomes already have been determined will have action except for wagers placed on full game bets". I can definitely understand the confusion and understand OP got frustrated with the grading.

    What annoys me the most is, there is confusion about something and clients complain about wording being ambiguous or confusing...but it rarely ever gets fixed! You'd think books that have been in business over a decade would be able to write betting rules that are 100% clear after all this time because they've probably had every problem imaginable come up already!

  15. #15
    Shifty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    You didn't start betting yesterday. Can you nominate any US facing book who pays out full game totals without the game going the distance?
    Fanduel, Draft Kings, and all the Kambi books. I'm sure there are others. As soon as a total goes over, it is official.

  16. #16
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post

    Fanduel, Draft Kings, and all the Kambi books. I'm sure there are others. As soon as a total goes over, it is official.
    US Facing Offshores. Or even Vegas rules. Not foreign owned books out of Europe.


    If you are arguing that this is not graded as any regular baseball bettor at BM (or any offshore, or in Vegas) has expected it would be graded for decades, then you don't have enough knowledge to even be posting in this thread.

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  17. #17
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumsi View Post
    Completely wrong! If I bet there will be under 9.5 on a game, and I am watching a game, and the score is 10-0, then I know I lost my bet. No complains! It is all about logic. Every unlogical "rules" are there to protect the book. Stop protecting unlogical rules!
    Okay. Now explain how this rule "protects the book".

  18. #18
    Grumsi
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTailMe View Post
    Okay. Now explain how this rule "protects the book".
    Even if this particular "rule" doesn't benefit the book, it is still an implemented unlogical "rule", therefore players are getting used to unlogical "rules" and eventually stop questioning them. Here comes an opportunity for a book to implement even more unlogical "rules", which only benefits the books! There you go, you got swindled, he got swindled, they got swindled, everyone got swindled except the book!

    And here is another advise for every player who read this: Question every single unfair or unlogical "rule" as soon as it is implemented, or they will be there to stay forever! And those "rules" are there to empty your wallets! Be the first to say STOP!

  19. #19
    Alfa1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumsi View Post
    Even if this particular "rule" doesn't benefit the book, it is still an implemented unlogical "rule", therefore players are getting used to unlogical "rules" and eventually stop questioning them. Here comes an opportunity for a book to implement even more unlogical "rules", which only benefits the books! There you go, you got swindled, he got swindled, they got swindled, everyone got swindled except the book!

    And here is another advise for every player who read this: Question every single unfair or unlogical "rule" as soon as it is implemented, or they will be there to stay forever! And those "rules" are there to empty your wallets! Be the first to say STOP!
    You explained nothing, you just complained. How does this rule protect the book if they also voided all losing bets?

  20. #20
    Grumsi
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    Just read my post again and figure it out, I am not your momma to teach you common sense.

  21. #21
    big joe 1212
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    Every gambler knows this bet is considered "no action"

    You know how many times my over has already hit by the 6th, 7th inning and the gme gets called due to rain? It's very frustrating, but those are the rules.

    Believe me, I'm very upset with Bookmaker.eu about a seperate issue. I'd love the opportunity to further bash them, but in this case, they are correct.

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  22. #22
    LT Profits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa1234 View Post
    In the yellow box it also clearly states that all wagers with a determined outcome have action...dubious at best.
    No it makes sense. That part pertains to results that have already been deemed official, such as segmented inning plays, specific inning props after inning has been completed, 5-inning plays where 5 innings have been completed, etc. In this case, although the game has already gone Over, it has NOT yet been deemed official because the game has not gone 9 innings. Only Money Line bets are official after 5 innings (4.5 if home team is winning), Total and Run Lines require 9 innings.

    This is standard stuff, nothing to see here.

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  23. #23
    LT Profits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumsi View Post
    This is no brainer. The Book should pay you immediately after the outcome was determined. You bet on over 9.5, score was 0-10, you won!! Anything else, any dubious clause, any additional debate, anything at all.... Is there to scam you. Everyone in this thread protecting the book's "rules", or trying to explain why they didn't pay you, are getting paid by the book or have some other benefits for doing so.

    You got scammed! That is that. Ignore everyone who is here to protect the book and remember them for future interactions, so you will not waste time discussing with them. That is all I can advise you.
    No, baseball has specific rules that Money Lines require 5 innings and Totals/Run Lines require 9 innings. It has been that way since the beginning of time.

    Maybe some other sports pay out as soon as a game goes Over, but not baseball as the sport-specific rules always supersede the general rules.

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  24. #24
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumsi View Post
    Just read my post again and figure it out, I am not your momma to teach you common sense.
    We've all read your post, and nowhere were you able to articulate how this rule protects the book...because it doesn't. Everyone here is telling you that it's a standard, well known baseball betting rule. There are lots of betting rules where I could make a logical case for a different outcome. But what I think about those rules doesn't really matter.

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