This is the summary.
Originally posted by thordin86
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This is the summary.
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That rule has not been in place for a yearOriginally posted by Optional
It was not on their T&C page on Nov 5 2016
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Hello dear friends,
I have 3 agency accounts in PremiumTradings ; Pinbet88, Sbobet, Maxbet.
When I woke up on 15th of February, in the morning, I saw that 265000€ had been taken from my pinbet88 account. When I asked PremiumTradings this issue, they told me that they took it according to their T&Cs. I told them that this rule doesn't exist and we don't have such a rule in our contract. They did not make so much explanation about this issue.
I am a subagent of them and if you look at the document you can see T&Cs in our contract
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...l#post26866285
As if I am not obeying the rules; they seized 265000€ of me.They let me risk for the gain; but at the end they seized 265000€ of me. They changed all the rules on the same day because they didn't want to make the payment.. Why should I take that risk if I knew the rules? In the arbusers forum; PremiumTradings mentioned that as a subagent of them I knew the changes in the T&Cs of them for over a year. However this is a total lie. You can easily see that the rules were changed just in the morning of 15th February by checking the archive of the website.
After long conversations, they told me that they would pay me only 199000€ and would not pay the remaining 66000€ due to the 25% risk they are taking. At the beginning I did not accept it and told that they have to pay all the money
February 25
In further conversations, they stated that they wouldn't pay me any money if I didn't accept their new contract. Then I was forced to sign the document that they sent to me.This talk was on the phone with their hidden number.
They paid 199000€ part by part in 3 weeks. PremiumTradings asked me to have a chat with arbusers admin and delete my posts on the forum. I didn't accept it because of the remaining 66000€ and I asked them to pay this. Meanwhile, I requested my Sbobet account to be closed and transfer my 16728,9€ from this account to my neteller or ecopayz account.
March 13
After that, on 20th of March they closed my accounts. I couldn't access them now.
I had a remaining balance of 66.000€ from 265.000€ and also I hava a balance of 87.000€ in my agency accounts; total of 153.000€.
Pinbet88: 10,000€ + Sbobet: 61,000€ + maxbet:16,700€= 87,000€ was seized from my accounts and they closed my accounts.They did not need to give any explanation.
With all my sincerity, I should admit that I am swindled by PremiumTradings.
The reasons for PremiumTradings to do all these;
1- Losing too much money due to the higy risk that they have taken.
2- making a new business agreeement of me with another firm (AsianConnect)
Whatever the reason, PT can't take money from my account. They transferred the money from my account to their account. It can't be explained
I am confident about SBR admins and I believe that you will solve this case. I would like to thank you in advance.Comment -
what is your position taking omer ? Can you give an answer? Alfa and thordin already asked you , but you didnt answer.
If its is 0% , then Premium Trading must pay you the ramaining 66k.
If it is 25% , then you are talking bullshits and you should pay by yourself the money to your client.The same goes when your clients lose money ; you are the one who profit 25% of their losses.Comment -
:=)
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The customer won 400k. My position is 0%. The PT took a very deal of risk and hurt. That's the summary.Originally posted by pellumb341
Alfa is here to mix the subject. He is the man of the PT (arbusers).
Premiumtradings took the money that belonged to me.Comment -
@Omer87... I am talking to PT about your money.
You would be best to stop with the posts for now and let me see what we can work out. They have already decided that your public actions require them to freeze everything, say no more and leave this in the hands of their legal representatives. These posts are just re-enforcing their resolve now, not helping..Comment -
Thanks for the updates Omer. Back to square 1 I guess...without more info from PT if and when they changed that T&C and informed him we'll never know who is right.
I can confirm the 50k limit is not in my initial contract with them, but Dealer Wins does have it according to his earlier post. I suppose it depends on whether or not PremiumTradings is taking a position stake in your accounts or not.Comment -
Ok, Thanks for be interested. For now I will stop posts.Originally posted by OptionalComment -
Dear Optional,
I am sure of yourself working hard on this seizure of money. Till now, I shared many documents that show the real face of PT and I will keep going on sharing more whenever needed. The case is a way of unethical swindling process of PT by changing their T&Cs just after winning such huge amounts of my clients. I just make this case in SBR forum public and suddenly a user comes here and starts posting only to defend PT in ridiculous ways. He posts more than me and nearly owns 40% of the posts that are submitted in my topic. I will be waiting news from you. I just want what I own nothing more! Please know that I will not accept any other offers other than making the payment of all the money I own!.Comment -
optional-----you do a great job here. thanksComment -
i guess PT lost a lot from Omers customers - like 40 to 100 K
best would be they can pay 120 of those 160 k
dont forget how Irakli Kacharava stole 3.1 mln as agent for Betfair and nobody could do somethingComment -
Omer87, I guess if Optional help you, you will take money and leave here without saying "thank you guys for your support".Originally posted by omer87
I remember that you desperately opened the topic in the Arbusers forum about this issue first and all Arbusers members supported you because every member felt your pain and after all Premium Tradings sent additionally 199k to you.
and what did you do ? - you left the arbusers forum without writing any single word and ignored the forum members.
yes it is right "People only remember the police when robbers steal their money",but we are not Police here.Comment -
I dont remember if he said thank but he had a gag order from PT and then arbusers closed the thread, so not much chance to say thanks.
And case wasn't done anywayComment -
I'm sure Arbusers hiding the thread has done a lot of damage to PT (who he's protecting as a client) and also his own credibility and forum - denying free speech ans suppression of an important topic for existing customers was not bright of him and then acting like a Nazi deleting posts and chatbox comments was the final straw for some people - and he refuses to delete my profile forcing me to delete personal information and views on his forum - and all those attacking me there about something they don't know the full story about is pathetic and they can suck my big fat oneOriginally posted by thordin86
Thanks to the two users who gave their support
@Omer - best keep quiet and let Optional and SBR do what they can for you - I'm sure you'll get a lot more help here than you got at Arbusers
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TBH we don't know if Arbusers restricted his posting rights so he was unable to give any thanks or damage PT even moreOriginally posted by steven12Comment -
Max, you are the most beloved member in the arbusers forum, I learnt many tricks from you too. I remember your useful posts word by word even moderator deletes themOriginally posted by MaxShalamarComment -
Wow. 3 bullet points and 1 signature to an "agreement" that explains nothing. That page cant be notarized
Originally posted by omer87
I did not accept that contract. But they threatened me !!!Comment -
Will SBR do something to help this guy? Looks like he was doing business for a long period with PT,all of a sudden there is problem. Maybe they are not well funded at the moment,maybe they are broke?Comment -
Things won't get better for them with the loss of business and credibility over this - whatever the rights or wrongs of the original case they have acted unprofessionally at the very least ... maybe even criminally if they have changed the T&Cs without the agreement of the customer and the seizure of funds not related to the disputeOriginally posted by moojoo
Maybe they specifically target Turkish players knowing they can't get prosecuted due to that countries gambling laws? - It would be interesting to hear from other PT customers from Turkey and see if they have a different "contract" to other customersComment -
Hopefully. As you would see see if you have read the thread.Originally posted by moojoo
It is not helping the OP having others throw around theories and attacking PT in here right now..Comment -
TBH i didnt read much,because after first few posts of that jackA alpha i feel sick to my stomach.Comment -
Fair point - don't want to antagonise them any further or he'll get nothingOriginally posted by Optional
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Well, they seem pissed enough to just leave it to lawyers and let him fight for the lot right now.Originally posted by MaxShalamar
Fair point - don't want to antagonise them any further or he'll get nothing
They say they over-paid him on signing that agreement to take 199k and keep working with them. And believe now that has been breached they should be able to ignore that and recover the over payment from his account balance.
If I was him I'd want to get my 87k and then have a fair hearing about whether the other 66k has been fairly taken or not. Rather than just punish them.
I hoped we could convince them to do that, ignore the breach of agreement and agree to a third party arbitrator to decide the fate of of the other 66k. Waiting for the OP to let me know if he agrees to that approach..Comment -
At the end of the day they have lost a lot of credibility and the only way they will get it back is to settle this in a professional way - surely the loss of revenue will cost them more in the long run - good PR is worth it's weight in gold
They say they overpaid him on the agreement .. but THEY drew up the agreement and he apparently accepted those terms
I don't know who has done more damage to PT - the OP or themselves TBH
I'll shut up about it now until it's resolved - good luck
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Moral of this story for the avg SBR user: stay the eff away from agents -- large or small.Comment -
I have seen this guy on other forums as well trying to make Premiumtrading to look like thieves.. Only thing is i think there is alot more to the story if premium trading are willing to take him to court over it.. These companies dont take chances like that lightly...''Good luck'' to the OP, he'll need it..Comment -
Anyone notice that Sirbobet and GoBetGo are still listed as members on the Arbusers forum? - Arbusers doesn't have a lot of luck with the products he's trying to sell his members - I'm sure he defended them too at first
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It's clear that the 50k rule was added later on and that the contract that he signed didn't include that term as many member forums on Arbusers suspected and stated (that's why it was removed from Arbusers forum). If PT had a strong case, they would take him to court but at the end of the day the agent from Turkey provided facts and PT nothing. In addition to that they took more money from him by closing his account and not returning his balance.Originally posted by Midoohadi
Omer: Have you taken your case with the Curacao gambling commission? I am sure SBR will do their best to help you but they don't have the juristiction to force them (only by threatening them to make an official post on the SBR Site about the case), may be if Curacao licence is any good, they will have the way to do soComment -
Ok Max, now you are being an idiot. No reason to delete the accounts, what if they return and post some crap? Sure, no chance in hell but no logic in deleting them at all.Originally posted by MaxShalamarAnyone notice that Sirbobet and GoBetGo are still listed as members on the Arbusers forum? - Arbusers doesn't have a lot of luck with the products he's trying to sell his members - I'm sure he defended them too at first
And unless you have proof of arbusers defending them don't just throw mud around.
Those bookies had very lucrative affiliate deals and i don't remember any banner being upComment -
I'e been re-reading old posts and he was backing them at the start ... no doubt he's deleted his own posts now I highlighted them to him ;-)Originally posted by thordin86
Still I'm banned there now and jetting off on Thursday for 3 weeks away from scams and fuckwittery
You have every right to defend him though - but I prefer to think about the people who lost a hell of a lot of cash on the services he promoted
LOL - now banned from accessing the site at all - sad and pathetic (I know you are reading this Abuser) - no wonder all the old crowd leftComment -
If I were "good" scammer, I would open scam bookie,steal people's money and make good bankroll to make new business. Then I would open betting agent and take 25-30% risk of bettor's bets (except sharpest bettor's bets).Originally posted by MaxShalamarAnyone notice that Sirbobet and GoBetGo are still listed as members on the Arbusers forum? - Arbusers doesn't have a lot of luck with the products he's trying to sell his members - I'm sure he defended them too at first
Of course this is not my way, this is just a review of the old epic scenario.
And also I don't believe that some guys made scam bookie,stole people's money and stop their scam business forever, it is impossible.Comment -
Its possible,and happened many many times. You have no clue.Originally posted by steven12Comment -
After much discussion I have not been able to negotiate a solution. Mainly because this has become so acrimonious that neither party are willing to trust each other again.
Here is what I have found;
There are three issues
1) Was there a rule in force that limited an individual account to 50k/day winnings at the time Omer's client placed their bets?
2) Was there a fair and valid agreement in place for settlement of the dispute?
3) Has that agreement been broken and if so, should PremiumTradings be allowed to retain 87k in betting account balances as a result?
1) Was there a rule in force that limited an individual account to 50k/day winnings at the time Omer's client placed their bets?
Omer alleges that PremiumTradings amended their terms of service after the subject bets were placed to include a term limiting a single account to 50k maximum winnings per day and that his original signed sub-agent contract (provided) should be used as the binding rules on the matter.
He provided a link to archive.org showing the term was not shown on the PremiumTradings website rules page in November 2016 and screenshots of the website terms in non-English versions still not having been updated with it. Suggesting, if not proving, this term was at the very least a recent addition to the website.
PremiumTradings explained that clients are advised of terms of service updates to their contracts when they log into the website. The changes are pointed out and new terms displayed and the user is asked to electronically sign acceptance.
They provided a dump from their database indicating Omer’s account terms of service were updated on 4th January 2016 and included this line “A customer, either registered directly to Premiumtradings service or via intermediate agent, can win up to EUR50,000 (or equivalent in other currencies) per day or EUR250,000 per week, all according to the sportsbook time zone, in any of the betting accounts (excluding Skype betting and exchanges).”
They additionally provided a screenshot from their admin system indicating that Omer logged in and accepted these terms on 7th January.
The manager I spoke with could not tell me when the website had been updated with the term but pointed out that it was irrelevant to the argument at hand and that PremiumTradings advice is that the way they notify of terms changes and collect the acceptance is correct and legally binding. I questioned if the notification was sufficient and he said he has had many conversations with other clients about the rule over the last year and genuinely believes that “everyone” is aware of the limit.
2) Was there a fair and valid agreement in place for settlement of the dispute?
At this point PremiumTradings had paid out the maximum 150k Euros for bets over those 3 days, leaving approximately 265k Euro in dispute.
They say they believed Omer did know about the rule but had simply forgotten to inform a new client of the rules and got caught out. But taking into account the long relationship, value of his account to the business, potential bad PR and the tough position Omer appeared to be in with his client they decided to ignore the 50k/day rule and agree to remit what they thought was an exceptionally fair amount in the circumstances. Being everything apart from the 25% of risk they had already been forced to take on the other side.
PremiumTradings say this left them at a net loss but thought Omer genuinely agreed it was fair he should wear the other 66k part of the responsibility and was happy enough this was a fair result to continue business with them.
I think there was some question over whether Omer had signed any such agreement? PremiumTradings provided an image of a signed version dated 24th February 2017 they say is from Omer.
It basically says that Omer will receive an additional 199,188.41 Euros, agrees this is a fair settlement and will not comment on the issue again.
At this point PremiumTradings paid Omer that 199k amount. He then re-deposited and continued using his betting accounts with them.
3) Has that agreement been broken and if so, should PremiumTradings be allowed to retain 87k in betting account balances as a result?
This is tricky. My immediate thought is that these are separate issues and the 87k should be returned.
Omer says he only signed the agreement under duress, so the no comment clause should not apply.
Whilst I can see that Omer would have felt he had no choice but to accept, it also appears that PT did not try to use their position to force an unfair agreement. They point out that they were confident in the legality of their terms and could have stood fast after the initial 150k and paid no more if not for their desire to continue a good relationship. They say they went to lengths with calculations to help convince Omer of the fairness of the deal and never expressed a take it or leave it attitude at any stage.
PremiumTradings say they feel like they acted in an unprecedented generous manner, were duped and then have had to suffer ongoing unfair public criticism for it. They say any request that they should now hand over another 87k is unfair only to them.
Opinion & Result
I commenced discussions with PremiumTradings hoping to solve the third issue first by arranging for both parties to ignore any breach, go back to the terms of the settlement agreement, recredit Omer’s 87k of betting account balances and restart working together. Then have a legal argument over the remaining 66k if nothing could be agreed.
Omer would not agree to return his business to them and PremiumTradings would not agree to simply allow him to withdraw that 87k. This made it tough to get much further.
I think the preponderance of evidence suggests that this term was in place prior to Omer’s bets being placed. I think if pressed to prove this is in a court of law PremiumTradings likely can do so. I don’t think the website evidence is helpful in refuting it.
I think the settlement deal offered and accepted was fair to both parties. Therefore I think at this point Omer may need to accept the 66k loss and move on from that.
As far as the remaining 87k I do not feel legally qualified to make a definitive statement about this. I can see both parties point of view. I do think Omer deserves a proper legal hearing over this part.
I asked PremiumTradings to agree to participate in mediation by The London Court of International Arbitration www.lcia.org (which can be done more cheaply and easily than regular legal action from Turkey) if Omer wanted to initiate such action and agreed to cease publicly commenting before they make a ruling.
PremiumTradings declined and said as far as doing anything else about this they are more inclined to spend time and money trying to reclaim 112k from Omer than help him fight them even more now.
PremiumTradings have provided Omer with the name of their legal representative and although he is in Turkey I do think it is possible for him to engage a lawyer from the same jurisdiction to at the very least reach out to their lawyer and assess the prospects of successful legal action.
The only other potential avenue is to ask their regulator to order payment of the 87k sportsbook account balances. They can be contacted at complaints@gaminglicences.com
Sorry that I could not do more for you with this one Omer..Comment -
"PremiumTradings say they feel like they acted in an unprecedented generous manner"
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