PremiumTradings seized 153,355€ of me ( 66k+87k)

steven12 · 03-22-17, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by MaxShalamar

You presume quite a lot ... unless you have inside information ;-)

You are talking to Arbusers moderator not with other one, Alfa1234 is Arbuser's second account. and arbusers forum belongs to PremiumTradings.
and they update the forum with new interface and new view with Omer's money

MaxShalamar · 03-22-17, 01:30 PM

Makes more sense now

Is that why they banned you? I'm debating deleting myself over there - need to see of Betburger will have a presence here first

omer87 · 03-22-17, 01:36 PM

I don't think that the forum belongs to PT but alfa1234 is arbusers himself. Arbusers is certainly getting money from PT. Most probably PT has given some of my money to arbusers' admin.

steven12 · 03-22-17, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by MaxShalamar

Makes more sense now

Is that why they banned you? I'm debating deleting myself over there - need to see of Betburger will have a presence here first

He knows that how sharpest I'm, he is afraid of me ))
remember my old Arbusers posts and remember that who was attacking to me when I tried to explain somethings to forum members. Always moderator and Alfa1234 deny my ideas, because I opened mug punter's sleepy eyes. Max you are a arber you don't lose money, but there are many mug punters who loses thousands euros in PremiumTradings. there are two famous betting agent,sorry, there were two famous betting agent AC and PT, and PremiumTradings users always follow Arbusers forum.
Remember,when I tried to explain somethings in "arbitrage vs valuebetting" thread forum moderator gave to my profile 160 negative karma and then deleted my posts in that thread with excuses.

steven12 · 03-22-17, 02:06 PM

now Arbusers(PremiumTradings) is going to buy new car with Omer's money

MaxShalamar · 03-22-17, 02:25 PM

I would never join anything through a banner on that site or any other site - Arbusers is there for the owner to make money and that is fair enough but to deliberately manipulate people and use a fake account is out of order

I've lost any confidence in that site now

dealer wins · 03-22-17, 03:10 PM

In defence of Arbusers if he was after just money he could have 10 dodgy agents banners on his site, but he doesnt. I cant be so quick to dismiss him and his site as anti-punter I really cant.

I have no idea of course whether I am right or wrong, but I dont see a greedy site owner. Like I say I could be wrong just my humble opinion.

thordin86 · 03-22-17, 04:35 PM

You people are something else, just a few posts with limited, if not selective, information from the OPs part and you make judgement against PT.
But the best part is this duplicate account conspiracy, its laughable.
PT owns Arbusers forum, sure, and AC deal is there as a diversion? Maybe they are part of the group.
Alfa being Arbusers duplicate account, sure, because the posting style is not different and Arbusers needs a duplicate account to go on talking about the topic he himself hidden.

puckk · 03-22-17, 04:43 PM

PremiumTradings is owned and operated by "BELLONA N.V", with valid gaming license No.8048/JAZ issued by the gaming commission of Curacao.
https://www.premiumtradings.com/en/about-us/

404 Not Found

http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/validate.php?lid=8048-B1912477

I think BELLONA also owns 1bet

Originally posted by omer87

Dear friends

It is a small company that can't cover its own risks PT. Never think that PT is a big company. They can change the rules and seize your money in your account when you just wake up in a morning. Do you have a contact number or address that you can access them? I am asking all users. It is a big company but they don't even have a contact number or address...

They have stolen my 153000 euros and they are just silent. I will contact them via my own means.

Alfa1234 · 03-22-17, 04:44 PM

Another thing for the record: I'm not affiliated with Arbusers, I'm not his client nor have I ever been paid by him in any way. I'm also not him, in case that wasn't already clear. But think what you want if it makes you happy.

Alfa1234 · 03-22-17, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by puckk

PremiumTradings is owned and operated by "BELLONA N.V", with valid gaming license No.8048/JAZ issued by the gaming commission of Curacao.
https://www.premiumtradings.com/en/about-us/

404 Not Found

http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/validate.php?lid=8048-B1912477

I think BELLONA also owns 1bet

From the 1bet site:

"This site is owned and operated by Delasport Ltd., Suite 7B-8B, 50 Town Range, Gibraltar, using the gaming license of Bellona N.V, an associated company of Delasport Ltd."

Grivas_Digeni · 03-22-17, 05:40 PM

So... can someone address what I posted in #70?

pellumb341 · 03-23-17, 03:51 AM

Why did you sign a document forfeiting 66,000 euro? Why did you not talk to the forums - or 'contact them via your own means' (I am assuming a Turkish version of Tony Soprano?) at that point? Were you seriously worried about never seeing a single dollar if you tried defending your case at that point? How could you do business with a company that's capable of this, or are you saying PT has turned bad just recently, just a couple of months ago?

Player is Turkish and its illegal to gamble in Turkey ; it means that the player cant court PT.

So , the first step is to get at least 199k (better than nothing , right ? )..After you get it , you go for the rest.

Alfa1234 · 03-23-17, 03:57 AM

That is the most rediculous reasoning I've ever seen. It's like a car salesman and a client making a deal. The salesman wanted 50k at first but after negotiating they sign a salescontract for 40k. Once the contract is signed and the guy gets his 40k, he doesn't deliver the car and asks for the additional 10k without giving the car, the reason being he "wanted the extra 10k in the first place and never actually agreed in his mind to the 40k price"!! Completely rediculous and unlawful.

betakos · 03-23-17, 05:02 AM

The whole thing would be over if Premium Tradings provided the contract that was signed by the agent that included the 50k rule, something that they never did while it's obvious from the webarchive that at least on their website that list was added afterwards without notifying any of the members.

And of course this doesn't explain why they confiscated the remaining balace of his active accounts

Grivas_Digeni · 03-23-17, 12:09 PM

Turkey does a lot of illegal things. I'm not surprised, or disgusted, this guy is getting shafted.

Originally posted by pellumb341

Player is Turkish and its illegal to gamble in Turkey ; it means that the player cant court PT.

So , the first step is to get at least 199k (better than nothing , right ? )..After you get it , you go for the rest.

kkkkk · 03-23-17, 12:25 PM

if im not wrong PT is operated not far from Turkey

relaaxx · 03-23-17, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by pellumb341

Player is Turkish and its illegal to gamble in Turkey ; it means that the player cant court PT.

So , the first step is to get at least 199k (better than nothing , right ? )..After you get it , you go for the rest.

that is exactly what you do under those circumstances. been there, luckily only once many years ago. get what you can. then with help try to get the rest.

omer87 · 03-23-17, 02:27 PM

I would like to explain the case again shortly. They paid 199000€ in 3 weeks.
The remaining money is 66000€.
While I was trying to take this money, they closed my accounts on 20th of March and they took 87000€ from accounts.

The total money that I need to take from PT is 153000€

thordin86 · 03-23-17, 03:55 PM

oh man, you 'broke the agreement' while they still had 87k from your balance...
you should have taken out all the money first and then try and pressure them for the 66k.
PT holds all the cards now, your signature is worthless, well, I dont see how you can come to an agreement now

Grivas_Digeni · 03-23-17, 04:38 PM

I'm still waiting for some sort of reaction to post #20.

It is mind boggling a 6-figure operation is run by an agent from Turkey (where gambling is explicitly prohibited, and NOT just online gambling), through a company that the agent himself clearly didn't/doesn't trust as shown by the sequence of events both sides described.

omer87 · 03-23-17, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by thordin86

oh man, you 'broke the agreement' while they still had 87k from your balance...
you should have taken out all the money first and then try and pressure them for the 66k.
PT holds all the cards now, your signature is worthless, well, I dont see how you can come to an agreement now

This does not mean PremiumTradings will seized the money. This case will never close until I get this money.

omer87 · 03-23-17, 05:33 PM

Here are the T&Cs that we signed with PT. I have followed all the rules of this agreement.

premiumtradings violated the its own terms and seized my 153000€.

For the first time I am sharing this contract which has been wondered by many users due to the objectivity of SBR

Alfa1234 · 03-23-17, 06:00 PM

This says nothing about what your Position Taking (PT) % was. Can you tell us (show us the email or chat) which % you took? That is the most important bit. If it was actually that 25% as Premiumtradings claimed above, my math says you have no right to that 66k.

On top of that and this is kinda irrelevant, but this thing seems years and years old as it still has an MSN adress...you never got any updates?

moojoo · 03-23-17, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

This says nothing about what your Position Taking (PT) % was. Can you tell us (show us the email or chat) which % you took? That is the most important bit. If it was actually that 25% as Premiumtradings claimed above, my math says you have no right to that 66k.

On top of that and this is kinda irrelevant, but this thing seems years and years old as it still has an MSN adress...you never got any updates?

Could SBR do something about this pos alfa,he is so annoying.

Alfa1234 · 03-23-17, 06:38 PM

Dude, the core of the case is the Position Taking percentage. I CANNOT understand you don't see this. The 50k daily profit limit DOES NOT matter.

Let me explain this plain and simple:

IF Omer had a 25% Position Taking percentage it means he gets 25% of every cent his clients lose. He also has to pay 25% of their winnings. It's settled at the end of the week, every week. Let's assume he took the 25% as this is the % PremiumTradings claims he was taking (posted above).

One unfortunate day, one of Omer's clients won 265k in a few big NBA parlay bets on Pinnacle. This means Omer had to pay that guy 66k out of his own pocket as that is 25% of 265k.

My oh my, that amount corresponds exactly to the 25% position Premiumtradings claims he was taking. What a surprise.

At first Premiumtradings probably said he could only get 150k of that 265k because of the 50k daily win limit they had in their T&C at the time. As Omer pointed out, there was no such win limit in their T&C when he signed his contract and he was not informed of any changes to that T&C...so Premiumtradings did the right thing and gave him the extra 46k, making the amount 150k+46k so 199k. It would have been unfair and unethical of them not to do so because they have, in my view, no right to just take 46k extra even if it's in their T&C. Omer and Premiumtradings signed a contract and Omer was paid his 199k.

Now...this issue should be finished...but Omer wants more despite signing that new contract. He wants to avoid paying this 66k to his client out of his own pocket, right? Now...the question is who is right? Is it Premiumtradings who claim Omer always had a 25% position taking on the bets of his clients or is it Omer?

The T&C above DO NOT SHOW THE POSITION TAKING % Omer had...so the issue is still open.

Please, for the love of God try and understand the above. If you don't "get" it at first, read it again...then read my post nr50 and reread it untill it makes sense to you.

To summarize:

- Omer has a right to an extra 66k IF his position taking % was 0.
- Omer has no right to the extra 66k IF his position taking % was 25%.

I'm not talking about the 87k that was still in his account at the time the accounts were closed..

You guys should at least "get" all that, right? The contract he just posted clearly states Omer has the right to choose a Position Taking percentage...

omer87 · 03-24-17, 05:22 AM

February 25

betakos · 03-24-17, 05:40 AM

The whole point for Premium Tradings not paying their client was the 50k rule and as i've already stated if the 50k was valid, Premium Tradings would just made the contract public and didn't offer him a single cent.

But as 95% of the punters who followed that topic suspected, there was no such rule and Premium Tradings scammed their client. Omer i suggest that in addition to SBR you should also take your case with the Curacao gambling commission that gave them their licence.

Optional · 03-24-17, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by omer87

February 25

Thanks for the update Omer.

It's good to read that they have no plans to withhold the extra funds as feared. So the argument is now just about the 66k they say was a breach of the 50k/day term.

I see they again restate that the rule has been in place for a year.

I am interested to see if they can back up that claim somehow.

Also, I notice you are arguing that you should not be responsible for their 25% risk. Maybe I misunderstand but it actually sounds like they are saying they are not holding you responsible for it, in an effort to satisfy you and resolve it.

thordin86 · 03-24-17, 05:54 AM

So, omer you dont have any position taking for yourself right? 0%

25% is PT risk. Good thing for most players, as it means limits are 25% higher, or at least not cut down by 25%.
In case of a big action account though it should be made pretty clear this limit increase would bring a cap to winnings and no automated system is in place alert you you are ''getting freerolled''.
Omer has an agent account even, could be the over-the-limit bets weren't even his.

Are these volumes frequent Omer? Have you had losing bets placed that, had they won, would get you way over the 50k win limit in the past?
I remember Arbusers asked for the complete betting history when the case first came to the forum.
[sarcasm]maybe his systems were down and couldn't login to get it himself [/sarcasm]

betakos · 03-24-17, 05:57 AM

Mr.Optional i believe this email was sent on 25/2 before they confiscate his balance in his accounts on the bookmakers, so there are two different matters.Ofcourse Mr Omer could clarify the situation

thordin86 · 03-24-17, 06:00 AM

Ok, Omer correct me if im wrong please.

That email is from Feb25 by the way, so it doesn't mention the 87k balance.
It was about the winnings, the proposed a deal, Omer accepted it ( one might say he was extorted into accepting it ) and paid 199k.
PT kept the 66k , and went on business as usual .
Meantime Omer had more balance in his accounts and after he started asking for the 66k, PT realised Omer didnt actually accept the deal, they froze everything and thats the last we heard from PT?

Alfa1234 · 03-24-17, 06:07 AM

Thanks for that update.

Re Optional: I'm not sure where you see in that mail that his risk is 25% or where it says they will pay the extra funds. The mail is from February. If Omer's risk is 0%, we are back to the issue of whether or not he was ever informed of the 50k daily limit or not.

Optional · 03-24-17, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by thordin86

no automated system is in place alert you you are ''getting freerolled''.

I've been meaning to address this point.

There is no way to put an automated limit of potential daily winnings that a player would accept. Say you want to take 5 golfers in a tournament each to win 50k... would you prefer to be automatically limited to no more bets that day after the first one?

Whilst I find a daily winnings limit worth questioning in itself (or at least questioning if this company is suitable to use whilst it is in place), it's not really a valid point to say they should not let you choose to bet to win more than that per day.

Originally posted by betakos

Mr.Optional i believe this email was sent on 25/2 before they confiscate his balance in his accounts on the bookmakers, so there are two different matters.Ofcourse Mr Omer could clarify the situation

It has been difficult to nail down the exact current situation from his posts. Hopefully it is just this extra 66k. I can't see any reason mentioned why they could justify confiscating more.

If PremiumTradings are reading maybe someone would like to email some evidence of exactly when this rule was put in place to cases@sportsbookreview.com

As stated before, I think this is the only thing at issue here. And Omar has come up with credible evidence it was not in place a year ago as PremiumTradings have claimed.

thordin86 · 03-24-17, 06:29 AM

Right, i didn't mean to say automated, this point was argued before.
But if bets this size have been also placed in the weeks before, surely PT will have noticed them.
They would see they are too big and they should have reminded the client that these bets, had they won, would have gotten him over the 50k limit.
The right thing to do would be to offer a non-position account for heavier usage.

Might just be the language barrier or something but Omer doesn't give us good information.
For what is worth, I suspect he is hiding things