–The facts about “Obamacare,” without all the political BS

[GUMMO77]

i agree, and also insured people who get sick should be kicked out of their insurance because it raises the costs for everyone else. Why should I have to pay more just because someone else got sick?? That is socialism

Yup!

I've actually have a second interview next week to be part of the Death Panel Crew (DPC). I will have to start on the bottom, but once I get the swing of making these "difficult" decisions, I imagine myself LOVING the job.

[KingJD31]

Even though youre being sarcastic i agree.

Uninsured people should go untreated or at the very least, go bankrupt because of hospital bills.

[You mad bro]

FUCCK THIS PRICK OBAMA

DONALD TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT boooyahhh bitcheeesss

[irish1]

Anyone that smokes should be denied coverage for any pre-existing codition related to smoking amd any illneses that may affect that person after coverage begins. Same with obesity and people eating like shit. Tax payers are picking up the bill for these people. I am being double whammied because I pay hogher dedutibles as well. At some point we have to say you can keep your personal freedoms like smoking, drinking and eating like shit but dont come looking for someone to pay your tab come closing time.

sounds alittle like death panels

[robmpink]

Lets get this straight,it is the INSURANCE companies who are driving up all costs...........

Profit off of the healthy and then deny coverage once the sick cut the slightest in to their profits.....................

I don't think it is the insurance companies driving up the costs. It is a combo of many things. Everything has gone up so why would you expect an insurance company to cut you a break? It sucks, but that is the way it is.

[robmpink]

This is the priority list of the US healthcare system......

1.Profit

2.paying off members of congress to Maximize #1.

3.provide minimal healthcare to sustain #1 and #2.

So if you were a CEO of an insurance company your primary focus would be to make sure everyone is taken care of in the best way while you lose billions of dollars?

People pick what plans they are offered. Companies choose what carriers they want. It is a competitive market. If you get minimal service of coverage it is because you pay for minimal shit.

[TheMoneyShot]

The cost of health care IMO jumped..... but then went a tad down now. Don't know why??? I have pretty good insurance HAP I only pay $121.00 a month and it includes $15 prescription. People need to cancel their coverage... and reapply.... don't be scared sh#$less. I've done it 3 times in 6 years. Point being... max out of my pocket is $6,500 including premiums for one year. Once reached... 100% is covered... up to 10 million dollars... where are you going to get individual care like that? Just apply and look on the internet. F Obamacare.

[PAULYPOKER]

So if you were a CEO of an insurance company your primary focus would be to make sure everyone is taken care of in the best way while you lose billions of dollars?

Thank you for proving my theory...........

I don't have the sheer ruthlessness to destroy human lives that it takes to be a CEO................

[CarpeDime]

So if you were a CEO of an insurance company your primary focus would be to make sure everyone is taken care of in the best way while you lose billions of dollars?

People pick what plans they are offered. Companies choose what carriers they want. It is a competitive market. If you get minimal service of coverage it is because you pay for minimal shit.

not at all, if there are scams involved then you can easily pay for normal sh*t and get minimal coverage, like people who pay for insurance while they are healthy and then get kicked out when they get sick

that's why there was such a push against the "public option", because it would have been something insurance companies would've had to compete with

[gauchojake]

Thread=gold

[frostno98]

Aside from all the BS, is Pauly Poker the most intelligent dude on SBRUnless he's just plagiarizing someone else writing.

[tony_come]

Paula is the face of sbr

Joker

[redsoxfreak91]

Well for all those "bashing" insurance companies for charging too much I am going to explain how this whole thing works. If you already know this then I'm not talking to you.

Insurance companies use a "formula" created by actuaries to do their best to put a "cost" on your life. They use the time value of money and determine you or your families monthly payments. This is a minimum!! Insurance companies cover your life, based on a history of percentages, to give you the cheapest coverage possible. If you don't believe me then stop paying your insurance costs and see how far you get.
They then use all these deposits to invest in equities and debt securities. They have to invest all your payments because guess what...these companies give you such a good deal they can not afford to be in business without generating a profit. On average an insurance company can cover 92-98% of costs depending on the year. They then rely on these investments to get the coverage ratio to 100% and potentially make a profit on everything over 100%. So the truth is that your insurance costs are positively related to the status of the economy. Costs have risen over the past few years because of a horrible economy and throughout the years because of inflation.
With the government now in charge, and since they do not participate in the markets, they will need 100% of payments to equal that which they pay out. The government will also want a profit so your minimum payments will either go up or your coverage will go down. Normally the payments will decrease but the coverage will decrease more. Now your pool of payments will increase but remember THE POOR GET MORE SICK THAN THE RICH (naturally, I have no facts to prove this though). So your premium is an average of the entire pool, so your payments will increase.

Basically I 100% agree that everyone needs medical coverage and I believe that most everyone on here will agree. The problem is the same problem that has been passed down for generations. THERE IS NO DEFINITE ANSWER AND OBAMAS PLAN CERTAINLY ISN'T!!!

[PAULYPOKER]

Well for all those "bashing" insurance companies for charging too much I am going to explain how this whole thing works. If you already know this then I'm not talking to you.

Insurance companies use a "formula" created by actuaries to do their best to put a "cost" on your life. They use the time value of money and determine you or your families monthly payments. This is a minimum!! Insurance companies cover your life, based on a history of percentages, to give you the cheapest coverage possible. If you don't believe me then stop paying your insurance costs and see how far you get.
They then use all these deposits to invest in equities and debt securities. They have to invest all your payments because guess what...these companies give you such a good deal they can not afford to be in business without generating a profit. On average an insurance company can cover 92-98% of costs depending on the year. They then rely on these investments to get the coverage ratio to 100% and potentially make a profit on everything over 100%. So the truth is that your insurance costs are positively related to the status of the economy. Costs have risen over the past few years because of a horrible economy and throughout the years because of inflation.
With the government now in charge, and since they do not participate in the markets, they will need 100% of payments to equal that which they pay out. The government will also want a profit so your minimum payments will either go up or your coverage will go down. Normally the payments will decrease but the coverage will decrease more. Now your pool of payments will increase but remember THE POOR GET MORE SICK THAN THE RICH (naturally, I have no facts to prove this though). So your premium is an average of the entire pool, so your payments will increase.

Basically I 100% agree that everyone needs medical coverage and I believe that most everyone on here will agree. The problem is the same problem that has been passed down for generations. THERE IS NO DEFINITE ANSWER AND OBAMAS PLAN CERTAINLY ISN'T!!!

I stopped reading at putting a cost on human life Vs profit...............

[redsoxfreak91]

I stopped reading at putting a cost on human life Vs profit...............

Why? That is what they do. If you don't believe me then go do some research. Also I put cost in parenthese to signal that it's just about business.

Or in better terms, insurance companies are like investment firms. They compete with the market to get people to invest their money in them in order for health care. The price you pay is your market value, as everyone should shop around for health care. If you're too much of a pussy to talk about peoples lives like business then so be it.

[PAULYPOKER]

I know that is what they do.......

What do you think every one of my posts today in this thread was stating?

All I did was, rip the clothes off of the Insurance industry's hideous body, for ALL to see...................

When you put a price on Human life in a society, you are nothing more than cancer to that society and the radiation treatments need to start immediately,PERIOD..............

[redsoxfreak91]

But it's the people's choice. You can be insured by many different companies. Why are the insurance companies wrong to charge the minimum they can to still earn a profit? My parents just joined a plan that is for anyone. They pay $300 dollars a month for everything, including possessions, to be insured. The group all pitch in this money and pay for each others problems. The group consists of thousands and you could join it if you want. So why don't you? It's because you will get better care with larger companies as they cover more things. You get what you pay for. The insurance companies don't do anything wrong. They weren't meant for the people. They were formed as a FOR PROFIT company. If you think they're wrong then try something else.

[alukk]

I can't speak for anybody but myself,this is why I'm against it...........


●The more budgets are cut and taxes increased, the weaker an economy becomes.

That's only short term, the USA is in a big budget problem. If you think they should not be doing anything about cutting spends or raising taxes you clearly don't understand economics.

[gauchojake]

Do you all realize that whether the government collects a tax for the ACA or not, we all pay for the uninsured. If you go to the ER with a health condition they cannot turn you away whether you have insurance or the ability to pay or not. How do you think the healthcare delivery system works now? The uninsured use the ER to treat health conditions that may be otherwise preventable or treatable if caught before the ER was necessary. We already pay for these people in the form of higher premiums, ER closures, and more expensive care.

[KingJD31]

Survival of the fittest, time to cut the dead weight

I stopped reading at putting a cost on human life Vs profit...............

[PAULYPOKER]

Survival of the fittest, time to cut the dead weight

Nice...........

[PAULYPOKER]

Our for-profit medical industry

Posted on March 20, 2013 | 2 Comments
WE NOW HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL-MEDICAL-COMPLEX IN AMERICA. THIS MONSTER DID NOT JUST ‘EVOLVE’, IT WAS DEVIOUSLY CONTRIVED IN THE LATE 60s


Steve Brill of Time Magazine investigated why medical costs are so much higher in America than in other countries. His story ran as a feature in the March 4, 2013 issue. Unfortunately this information should have been sought out and made public BEFORE the passage of Obamacare.
Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills are Killing Us

Essentially Mr Brill discovered that there is a two tiered pricing system in effect today. This two-tiered system is implemented by both hospitals and medical clinics. It is for this very reason that even the wealthy find it difficult to self-insure. If patients could actually afford to pay for their own hospital/medical care, both the hospitals and the doctors would be free of the stringent restrictions imposed on them today by both the insurance industry and the government. Physicians could practice according to the ‘best interest of the patient’ and NOT the ‘best interest of the bottom line’. When hospitals were non-profit institutions the ‘best interest of the patient’ was the norm.
This ‘gradual’ change in the practice of medicine was announced at a pediatric conference in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1969: New World System plans exposed by insider in 1969



The following are excerpts:



PLANNING THE CONTROL OVER MEDICINE
The next topic is Medicine. There would be profound changes in the practice of medicine. Overall, medicine would be much more tightly controlled. The observation that was made in 1969 that, “Congress is not going to go along with national health insurance, is now, abundantly evident. But it’s not necessary, we have other ways to control health care”. These would come about more gradually, but all health care delivery would come under tight control. Medical care would be closely connected to work. If you don’t work or can’t work, you won’t have access to medical care. The days of hospitals giving away free care would gradually wind down, to where it was virtually non-existent. Costs would be forced up so that people won’t be able to afford to go without insurance. People pay for it, you’re entitled to it. It was only subsequently that I began to realise the extent to which you would not be paying for it. Your medical care would be paid for by others. Therefore, you would gratefully accept, on bended knee, what was offered to you as a privilege. Your role being responsible for your own care would be diminished.
The way this works, everybody has made dependent on insurance and if you don’t have insurance then you pay directly; the cost of your care is enormous. The insurance company, however, paying for your care, does not pay that same amount. If you are charged, say, $600 for the use of an operating room, the insurance company does not pay $600; they only pay $300 or $400. That differential in billing has the desired effect: It enables the insurance company to pay for that which you could never pay for. They get a discount that’s unavailable to you. When you see your bill you’re grateful that the insurance company could do that. And in this way you are dependent, and virtually required to have insurance. The whole billing is fraudulent.



ELIMINATION OF PRIVATE DOCTORS
The image of the doctor would change. No longer would he be seen as an individual professional in service to individual patients. But the doctor would be gradually recognized as a highly skilled technician – and his job would change. The job is to include things like executions by lethal injection. The image of the doctor being a powerful, independent person would have to be changed. He went on to say, “Doctors are making entirely too much money. They should advertise like any other product.”
The solo practitioner would become a thing of the past. A few die-hards might try to hold out, but most doctors would be employed by an institution of one kind or another. Group practice would be encouraged, corporations would be encouraged, and then once the corporate image of medical care gradually became more and more acceptable, doctors would more and more become employees rather than independent contractors. Along with that, of course, unstated but necessary, is the employee serves his employer, not his patient. A few die-hard doctors may try to make a go of it, remaining in solo practice, remaining independent, which, parenthetically, is me but they would suffer a great loss of income. They’d be able to scrape by, maybe, but never really live comfortably as would those who were willing to become employees of the system. Ultimately, there would be no room at all for the solo practitioner after the system is entrenched.
Interview with Bitter Pill author, Steven Brill

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2 Responses to Our for-profit medical industry

• <cite class="fn">Truth</cite> | March 20, 2013 at 7:54 p03 | Reply
  http://www.whale.to/b/ruesch.html The Truth About the Rockefeller Drug Empire: The Drug Story
  By Hans Ruesch
  In the 30′s, Morris A. Bealle, a former city editor of the old Washington Times and Herald, was running a county seat newspaper, in which the local power company bought a large advertisement every week. This account took quite a lot of worry off Bealle’s shoulders when the bills came due.
  But according to Bealle’s own story, one day the paper took up the cudgels for some of its readers that were being given poor service from the power company, and Morris Bealle received the dressing down of his life from the advertising agency which handled the power company’s account. They told him that any more such “stepping out of line” would result in the immediate cancellation not only of the advertising contract, but also of the gas company and the telephone company.
  That’s when Bealle’s eyes were opened to the meaning of a “free press”, and he decided to get out of the newspaper business. He could afford to do that because he belonged to the landed gentry of Maryland, but not all newspaper editors are that lucky.
  Bealle used his professional experience to do some deep digging into the freedom-of-the-press situation and came up with two shattering exposes — “The Drug Story”, and “The House of Rockefeller.” The fact that in spite of his familiarity with the editorial world and many important personal contacts he couldn’t get his revelations into print until he founded his own company, The Columbia Publishing House, Washington D.C., in 1949, was just a prime example of the silent but adamant censorship in force in “the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave”. Although The Drug Story is one of the most important books on health and politics ever to appear in the USA, it has never been admitted to a major bookstore nor reviewed by any establishment paper, and was sold exclusively by mail. Nevertheless, when we first got to read it, in the 1970s, it was already in its 33rd printing, under a different label – Biworld Publishers, Orem, Utah.
• Examples:
• As Bealle pointed out, a business which makes 6% on its invested capital is considered a sound money maker. Sterling Drug, Inc., the main cog and largest holding company in the Rockefeller Drug Empire and its 68 subsidiaries, showed operating profits in 1961 of $23,463,719 after taxes, on net assets of $43,108,106 – a 54% profit. Squibb, another Rockefeller-controlled company, in 1945 made not 6% but 576% on the actual value of its property.
• That was during the luscious war years when the Army Surgeon General’s Office and the Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery were not only acting as promoters for the Drug Trust, but were actually forcing drug trust poisons into the blood streams of American soldiers, sailors and marines, to the tune of over 200 million ‘shots’. Is it any wonder, asked Bealle, that the Rockefellers, and their stooges in the Food and Drug Administration, the U.S. Public Health Service, the Federal Trade Commission, the Better Business Bureau, the Army Medical Corps, the Navy Bureau of Medicine, and thousands of health officers all over the country, should combine to put out of business all forms of therapy that discourage the use of drugs.
• “The last annual report of the Rockefeller Foundation”, reported Bealle, “itemizes the gifts it has made to colleges and public agencies in the past 44 years, and they total somewhat over half a billion dollars. These colleges, of course, teach their students all the drug lore the Rockefeller pharmaceutical houses want taught. Otherwise there would be no more gifts, just as there are no gifts to any of the 30 odd colleges in the United States that don’ t use therapies based on drugs.
• “Harvard, with its well-publicized medical school, has received $8,764,433 of Rockefeller’s Drug Trust money, Yale got $7,927,800, Johns Hopkins $10,418,531, Washington University in St. Louis $2,842,132, New York’s Columbia University $5,424,371, Cornell University $1,709,072, etc., etc.”

Mr Reusch,


Great contribution. Thanks so much for posting this response. Have you seen this one? It covers much of what you have written.http://educate-yourself.org/fc/




Keep voting for your 2 party system AMERICA..........

Voting for this system is like being addicted to every drug on earth including alcohol.........

AMERICA's death is a certainty, in the very near future, unless she enters herself into a rehabilitation hospital immediately.....

She must cleanse all that was taught, from her system,then and only then will she be able to heal with the learning and understanding of TRUTH..........

The more "EDUCATED" you are,the more rehab you will need........

[redsoxfreak91]

Patents on drugs drive up their costs because patents are expensive and there is no competition. In other countries, medicine is nowhere near as regulated which is why you can purchase drugs for so cheap. With less regulation though comes unproven drugs. Are these unproven drugs bad....idk I don't live in other countries. Because most research on drugs come in america, we have to have patents in order to reward the discovers of these drugs with their profit. Unfortunately, it causes us to pay more and it allows other countries to make replicates and then sell to their people. This is a problem you cannot fix because the highest class (Americans) will always suffer the costs but in the end the quality of life in America is by far the highest in the world.

[italianbandit]

Good post Pauly, what insurance plan do you have?