How betfair screws over winners

[hels]

LOL guys not paying arent winning end of story. Its all anecdotal if you win you pay end of story. You guys can defend it all you want all youre basically doing is showing you either arent winning or are good at circumventing all the nonsense rules they have in place. Yeah I had an account thre for about 4 months before I saw what a rip off it was. I dont mind sending ID and paperwork I gambled for aliving for quite a while so I wasnt hiding anything. But when you start getting ripped close to 15% it s alittle irritating. My commission was 3.5% or something like that so it didnt look or sound bad. But I won, I also didnt dick around with trying to tip toe a quota of plays I bet what I wanted when I wanted. It was too much so that was a charge. I never got charged for deposits. I got charged for withdrawals though. A flat fee but when converted to a percentage it still was a bit even on a decent 4 figure withdrawal. They also round down. They call it skimming. That is toal bullshit to. They claim it evens out. I made probably 5000 bets throught hmin 4 or 5 months, I NEVER EVER saw a single time where I got the rounded up side. I bet just that alone was 800-900 bux. I still have the paperwork out in the garage I am not going to go look it up but it was close to a grand they rounded me off. I posted about all this months ago, people just dont read or dont care. Mostly because theyre all losers and losers dont have to worry about pennies when theyre getting buried by the hundreds or thousands week after week. But like I said if youre a winning player then it all adds up. But thats why these things dont get noticed because most people dont have a clue or they arent winning.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. You are right, it isn't until you are winning do you begin to realize how dirty betfair can be. I must admit I was previously ignorant but as times change I have become more successful and more aware. All I am trying to do is make others aware as I hope we can all be successful at some point.

I also believed they were skimming in the methods you mentioned. I just haven't been able to find proof or evidence of it. People don't think portions of pennies amount to anything but when it happens millions and millions of times each day it adds up nicely.

[Hareeba!]

You must get your facts straight as this post sounds like some betfair rep bullsh*t. 100k allowance, good luck on that, try 1k. I guess you don't pay luxury tax because you are a losing bettor. I'm sorry to hear that.

Sorry, yes 1K not 100K

If you had read my posts you'd see that I said I am comfortably ahead on my decade of betting at BF.

If you actually took a bit of time off from bashing BF and read and comprehended the rules regarding the PC you would see that it doesn't apply to all winners. And if you are capable of thinking it through you might actually find a strategy that not only ensures you won't be hit with the PC but also assists to keep your commission rate low.

[jjgold]

Betfair must make so much money it is scary
No idea why stock price does not do good
They should of stayed private

[Hareeba!]

read about skimming.

peanuts
and a premium I'm more than happy to pay if it assists in getting my offers matched
even if they didn't refund a share of it

[hels]

Sorry, yes 1K not 100K If you had read my posts you'd see that I said I am comfortably ahead on my decade of betting at BF. If you actually took a bit of time off from bashing BF and read and comprehended the rules regarding the PC you would see that it doesn't apply to all winners. And if you are capable of thinking it through you might actually find a strategy that not only ensures you won't be hit with the PC but also assists to keep your commission rate low.

Post proof of these winnings. I have done so (not in this thread) but in multiple threads, even once in the last week.

Of course arbing is an option but unless you can sit at your comp 24 hours a day constantly comparing all markets it will not be beneficial. Put it this way, let's say you lay at betfair at odds of 2.00 and buy at Pinnacle at 1.95. You bet $100 either way. You win at betfair you pay your 4% ($96 profit) or win at betfair and receive $95.

Next option, fund dump with a trusted friend. You lay a market (with low liquidity) in play -- NHL Total. Your friend takes that bet which will have an excellent chance of hitting. Will work for a while but then the betfair bots will catch on and freeze both accounts.

Next option, use a trusted friends loser account. I unfortunately don't have this nearby. With betfair able to know your IP this is extremely risky.

What am I going to do? I'll once again bet many markets before the game and let those bets ride. I have a slight edge (maybe 52 or 53%) I'll break even after commission. This will help my profitable live betting that I have been doing so well in lately. I've kept my balance at 2k for the past month but will up it to 4k or 5k gradually and make 20-30 $100 bets with EV odds each day and use the $2000 for my live betting. So I do have a plan and it will work, it's just extra time and effort I'm going to be giving capping 20/30 games everyday. Obviously some will be tailing members such as Dad and others will be my own style.

[Hareeba!]

LOL guys not paying arent winning end of story. Its all anecdotal if you win you pay end of story.

Sheer ignorance

[hels]

peanuts
and a premium I'm more than happy to pay if it assists in getting my offers matched
even if they didn't refund a share of it

Are you this small minded. Betfair has millions of bets placed everyday. However let's just say they have 1 million a day. On those million bets there will be uneven penny amounts, such as: $67.321 or $99.009. They always round down. We can accurately estimate that the average bet amount will be half a penny or $0.005.

1,000,000 x 0.005 = 5000

That is $5000 per every million bets they take. Once again, that is peanuts you say?

[Hareeba!]

Post proof of these winnings. I have done so (not in this thread) but in multiple threads, even once in the last week.

I have no intention of posting private data. Is it not possible for someone on this forum to state facts without some loser demanding that he prove it? That is effectively calling me a liar to which I am entitled to take exception.

In any event it would only likely attract claims of it having been faked.

Of course arbing is an option but unless you can sit at your comp 24 hours a day constantly comparing all markets it will not be beneficial. Put it this way, let's say you lay at betfair at odds of 2.00 and buy at Pinnacle at 1.95. You bet $100 either way. You win at betfair you pay your 4% ($96 profit) or win at betfair and receive $95.

Agree. I'm not an arber and wouldn't waste my time.

Next option, fund dump with a trusted friend. You lay a market (with low liquidity) in play -- NHL Total. Your friend takes that bet which will have an excellent chance of hitting. Will work for a while but then the betfair bots will catch on and freeze both accounts.

Next option, use a trusted friends loser account. I unfortunately don't have this nearby. With betfair able to know your IP this is extremely risky.

Agree. I wouldn't risk anything like that and don't like involving others in my business.

[noyb]

Has anyone who has played the Aussie markets ever been provided with extra funds

uh yes, in fact i have. learn your facts first.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Just another monopoly abusing their position.

[jjgold]

Hareeba seems to know his stuff

[wantitall4moi]

Sheer ignorance

Yeah OK, I made so much money betting sports it would boggle most guys minds. So no I dont knwo what I am talking about.

A SMART guy would listen or at least double check. Sure if you make money great. Go do some accounting and see what you got then compare it to what you would have got somewhere else, and then compare it to what you would have gotten without all the extra commissions premiums skims or whatever other bullshit they charged.

If I took 40K out of betfair I should be happy right? Not if I should have gotten 48. Not saying that is what it was, but sure I took a lot of money out of them for 4 months, but it wasnt nearly what it should have been.


Like I said a professional knows every angle and how to get the most out of your money. The big sell there is you are supposed to be paying less. Thats the angle. But if you end up paying more due to all the extras that angles is non existent.

You guys arent going to tell me anything I dont know or havent seen. Regardless of how many claims you make. If you made money I would give you even money it was less than it should have been and definitely less than from a place like Pinnacle or pretty much any Asian exchange.

Betfair gets a pass because theyre well known and they handle a lot of money. Big frigging deal.

Theyll really get exposed with their bullshit if they get the horse racing exchange they want here in california. Its only going to be WPS but guys that know theyre full of shit are already speaking out loudly against it. Even though it is actually more money for them.

[Hareeba!]

Are you this small minded. Betfair has millions of bets placed everyday. However let's just say they have 1 million a day. On those million bets there will be uneven penny amounts, such as: $67.321 or $99.009. They always round down. We can accurately estimate that the average bet amount will be half a penny or $0.005.

1,000,000 x 0.005 = 5000

That is $5000 per every million bets they take. Once again, that is peanuts you say?

I don't know about the actual numbers but even if you are correct that equates to a very small $ amount on my bets and if it is responsible for just one of my winning bets getting matched which wouldn't otherwise over the course of a year I reckon it is money well spent.

And then on top of that there is the dividend they cough up at the end of the year.

[hels]

uh yes, in fact i have. learn your facts first.

So they have given you a credit to your account saying that it was extra funds that were pooled up?

I lived in Australia for about 6 months after they started cross-matching and I often bet on Aussie sports. Never once did I have a random credit show up in my account.

[Hareeba!]

Yeah OK, I made so much money betting sports it would boggle most guys minds. So no I dont knwo what I am talking about.

A SMART guy would listen or at least double check. Sure if you make money great. Go do some accounting and see what you got then compare it to what you would have got somewhere else, and then compare it to what you would have gotten without all the extra commissions premiums skims or whatever other bullshit they charged.

If I took 40K out of betfair I should be happy right? Not if I should have gotten 48. Not saying that is what it was, but sure I took a lot of money out of them for 4 months, but it wasnt nearly what it should have been.


Like I said a professional knows every angle and how to get the most out of your money. The big sell there is you are supposed to be paying less. Thats the angle. But if you end up paying more due to all the extras that angles is non existent.

You guys arent going to tell me anything I dont know or havent seen. Regardless of how many claims you make. If you made money I would give you even money it was less than it should have been and definitely less than from a place like Pinnacle or pretty much any Asian exchange.

Betfair gets a pass because theyre well known and they handle a lot of money. Big frigging deal.

Theyll really get exposed with their bullshit if they get the horse racing exchange they want here in california. Its only going to be WPS but guys that know theyre full of shit are already speaking out loudly against it. Even though it is actually more money for them.

You obviously haven't been reading what I've posted.

I only bet at Betfair when they have the best odds of all my books (which include Pinnacle, SBO and Matchbook) AFTER commission is factored in.

And in addition if the odds I want aren't available anywhere I post an offer at Betfair (and/or Matchbook) and very often find they get accepted. You can't do that at any bookie I know of.

[hels]

Yeah OK, I made so much money betting sports it would boggle most guys minds. So no I dont knwo what I am talking about. A SMART guy would listen or at least double check. Sure if you make money great. Go do some accounting and see what you got then compare it to what you would have got somewhere else, and then compare it to what you would have gotten without all the extra commissions premiums skims or whatever other bullshit they charged. If I took 40K out of betfair I should be happy right? Not if I should have gotten 48. Not saying that is what it was, but sure I took a lot of money out of them for 4 months, but it wasnt nearly what it should have been. Like I said a professional knows every angle and how to get the most out of your money. The big sell there is you are supposed to be paying less. Thats the angle. But if you end up paying more due to all the extras that angles is non existent. You guys arent going to tell me anything I dont know or havent seen. Regardless of how many claims you make. If you made money I would give you even money it was less than it should have been and definitely less than from a place like Pinnacle or pretty much any Asian exchange. Betfair gets a pass because theyre well known and they handle a lot of money. Big frigging deal. Theyll really get exposed with their bullshit if they get the horse racing exchange they want here in california. Its only going to be WPS but guys that know theyre full of shit are already speaking out loudly against it. Even though it is actually more money for them.

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm not into horse racing so I am unaware of what they are trying to do in California. The only reason I will stay with betfair is there aren't any other exchanges that have adequate NBA/NFL liquidity during the game. If matchbook got their act together they would have an even larger market but they don't go in play. Betdaq, well who knows what's up with them. So much potential with these horrendous monopoly decisions by betfair but they aren't taking advantage of it.

[wantitall4moi]

You obviously haven't been reading what I've posted.

I only bet at Betfair when they have the best odds of all my books (which include Pinnacle, SBO and Matchbook) AFTER commission is factored in.

And in addition if the odds I want aren't available anywhere I post an offer at Betfair (and/or Matchbook) and very often find they get accepted. You can't do that at any bookie I know of.

thats probably why youre not getting butt raped with premiums then, you keep the limit of bets realistic. Most people dont know the difference. They see -130 at Pinnacle and -122 at betfair they automatically think BF has the best price (by a lot), after all is said and done BF might end up being -137. But if they win they dont care or dont take notice. That is why the way BF does it is unethical to say the least. Because winners usually arent in the mindset to complain.

[Hareeba!]

So they have given you a credit to your account saying that it was extra funds that were pooled up?

I lived in Australia for about 6 months after they started cross-matching and I often bet on Aussie sports. Never once did I have a random credit show up in my account.

Dear Hareeba!,

As you may realise, many Australian markets offered by Betfair employ cross-matching, a process that increases the likelihood of customers’ bets being matched through a specifically-calculated algorithm. (For more detailed information on cross-matching on Australian markets, please visit http://cross-matching.betfair.com.au/.)

Over time, the cross-matching process on Australian markets results in the accumulation of a small amount of residual funds within our internal matching account, which we are required to distribute to eligible customers at certain intervals.

As you have placed a bet in an Australian exchange market that employs cross-matching since the last distribution of funds, you are entitled to an allocation of a share of these funds.

As any Betfair customer throughout the world to have placed a bet in an Australian cross-matching market is entitled to a share of the distributed funds, the relevant amounts per customer are quite small.

Please be advised that your share of the distributed funds has been deposited into your Australian wallet in your local currency.

If you have any further queries, please contact our Help Desk on 1300 238 324 for Australian customers and 0800 238 324 for New Zealand customers or you can email us at ausinfo@betfair.com.


The Betfair team

[Hareeba!]

thats probably why youre not getting butt raped with premiums then, you keep the limit of bets realistic. Most people dont know the difference. They see -130 at Pinnacle and -122 at betfair they automatically think BF has the best price (by a lot), after all is said and done BF might end up being -137. But if they win they dont care or dont take notice. That is why the way BF does it is unethical to say the least. Because winners usually arent in the mindset to complain.

What on earth is unethical in what they do?

Players there surely are aware that they are going to be charged a commission on winning bets.

[wantitall4moi]

What on earth is unethical in what they do?

Players there surely are aware that they are going to be charged a commission on winning bets.

commission is fine its the other stuff we have been talking about. Yo u think they make those calls as a true courtesy? No they tape them and want them on record so when you get charged a massive premium above your commission they play the tape where you agree to it. Mostly because you dont think it will matter or it wont be that much or you werent really paying attention.

I am done I have made my point, you have made yours. I doubt many people play there anyway, but I suppose people in the future who do searches might come upon this so all sides are there for people to look at and decide for themselves.

If they stuck with their 3.5% commission fine. Pinnacle can actually be 2% or less but with BF you do get to offer your own prices and have access to better prices than a book does so the extra 1/2% isnt a killer. But when youre looking for such a small advantage in the first place it doesnt take much in any fees or premiums or rounding to more than make up for it. 5% of 100K is 5000 dollars. And 100K for a professional gambler is less than a weeks action.

[Hareeba!]

commission is fine its the other stuff we have been talking about. Yo u think they make those calls as a true courtesy? No they tape them and want them on record so when you get charged a massive premium above your commission they play the tape where you agree to it. Mostly because you dont think it will matter or it wont be that much or you werent really paying attention.

I am done I have made my point, you have made yours. I doubt many people play there anyway, but I suppose people in the future who do searches might come upon this so all sides are there for people to look at and decide for themselves.

If they stuck with their 3.5% commission fine. Pinnacle can actually be 2% or less but with BF you do get to offer your own prices and have access to better prices than a book does so the extra 1/2% isnt a killer. But when youre looking for such a small advantage in the first place it doesnt take much in any fees or premiums or rounding to more than make up for it. 5% of 100K is 5000 dollars. And 100K for a professional gambler is less than a weeks action.

Any player who qualifies for the PC is given notice before it is charged to the best of my knowledge. Also all players can check online at any time on their lifetime history and see where they stand as far as the PC is concerned. Leaving aside the PC as such (which I have never attempted to defend) I fail to see anytthing unethical about their procedure.

As far as commission v bookie vig is concerned that is just a simple arithmetic exercise a player should perform before placing his bets. Sometimes you're better off at Pinnacle and sometimes at Betfair. Same as comparing any two bookies really. Nothing unethical happening.

[the sink]

Where can u check lifetime?
I only see last 3months

[Hareeba!]

Where can u check lifetime?
I only see last 3months

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html

[the sink]

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-m...e/summary.html

It only sends me to "Premium charge guide"

"Your account has not incurred Premium Charges. If you become eligible to incur Premium Charges in the future, we will contact you before any charges are paid. If you require any further assistance, please contact"

[Hareeba!]

It only sends me to "Premium charge guide"

"Your account has not incurred Premium Charges. If you become eligible to incur Premium Charges in the future, we will contact you before any charges are paid. If you require any further assistance, please contact"

Hmmm, that's odd. I get a full summary of my lifetime and last week's activity.
I suggest you ask them.

[FourLengthsClear]

No but wait all the wannabe sharps claim it is the best thing going because it handles billions in play.

Shows what these so called smart guys know.

I told peopel betfair was a joke along long time ago. Everyone loves to try and use math and the typical catch phrases to try and defend it. But simple addition, subtraction, and multiplication is all you need to use to see youre getting buried in vig/commission/taxes/premiums there. They charge you for 3 or 4 things, those all add up after awhile. It is like a bank that charges you for everything you do with them. Its only a bucck or tweo here and there but after awhile it all adds up. They dont offer nearly enough good options to come close to being able to do what they do there.

I am sure the guys who swear by them will come in with their typical rhetoric but if you are a winning player or an advantage player and are really serious about making a profit from gambling (betfair theoretical target clientele) theyre pretty much the worst option available.

As per always, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Despite only learning about Premium Charge two days ago, the OP has already worked out ways of circumventing the first stage of that charge, it isn't rocket science. In fact it is ""simple addition, subtraction and multiplication" but maybe that is beyond your capability.

Aside from commission and Premium Charge there are no other costs/charges that any ordinary player is going to be faced with. If you are running multiple bots and have to request data from the API more than 20 times per second, then there are data request charges but as I say no regular bettor has to worry about that.

Premium Charge is a complete pain in the a$$ and it would be great if 50% of Betfair players moved to Betdaq tomorrow and Betfair were forced to stop acting as if they had a monopoly. They won't though, I would explain why but you wouldn't get it.

[jjgold]

As per always, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Despite only learning about Premium Charge two days ago, the OP has already worked out ways of circumventing the first stage of that charge, it isn't rocket science. In fact it is ""simple addition, subtraction and multiplication" but maybe that is beyond your capability.

Aside from commission and Premium Charge there are no other costs/charges that any ordinary player is going to be faced with. If you are running multiple bots and have to request data from the API more than 20 times per second, then there are data request charges but as I say no regular bettor has to worry about that.

Premium Charge is a complete pain in the a$$ and it would be great if 50% of Betfair players moved to Betdaq tomorrow and Betfair were forced to stop acting as if they had a monopoly. They won't though, I would explain why but you wouldn't get it.

I never knew if you run more than one bot at a time you get an instant warning that you will get a charge if it continues, they usually wave it once or twice

One Bot seems fine though

Wanty has no clue about European/Asian And Aussie markets and I mean ZERO CLUE

[wantitall4moi]

I never knew if you run more than one bot at a time you get an instant warning that you will get a charge if it continues, they usually wave it once or twice

One Bot seems fine though

Wanty has no clue about European/Asian And Aussie markets and I mean ZERO CLUE

LOL keep telling yourselves that.

As far as betdaq goes they dont have the volume so no one plays there. All the euro trash that thinks they invented sports betting are all betfair rooster gobblers. Hard to change peoples minds about stuff when thats all their used to. So that is why they wont leave betfair and try something difference. end equally the means and all that I guess.

You guys can claim all you want. I have bet at just about every exchange or book in the world that isnt or wasnt in Costa Rica.

I just have enough brains to know the difference.

Like I said a lot of pretenders and wannabes on here giving anecdotal information based on their experiences, experiences that cant be made by guys who did well or made a large amount of bets.

Like I said if youre happy awesome, I am sure theyre even more happy with you staying and paying them. They make sure you know everything that happens, so the best thing that can be said is you do get kissed first before you get ******. They just usually dont tell you how much it costs.

[jjgold]

Wanty your correct about betdaq, it is utter whore shit and I do not trust the place
Horrific software, small pools

[FourLengthsClear]

LOL keep telling yourselves that.

As far as betdaq goes they dont have the volume so no one plays there. All the euro trash that thinks they invented sports betting are all betfair rooster gobblers. Hard to change peoples minds about stuff when thats all their used to. So that is why they wont leave betfair and try something difference. end equally the means and all that I guess.

You guys can claim all you want. I have bet at just about every exchange or book in the world that isnt or wasnt in Costa Rica.

I just have enough brains to know the difference.

Like I said a lot of pretenders and wannabes on here giving anecdotal information based on their experiences, experiences that cant be made by guys who did well or made a large amount of bets.

Like I said if youre happy awesome, I am sure theyre even more happy with you staying and paying them. They make sure you know everything that happens, so the best thing that can be said is you do get kissed first before you get ******. They just usually dont tell you how much it costs.

You make it sound like Betfair is the ONLY place we play, It isn't. We play at Pinny and the big Asian books too.

Nonetheless, I would think I will trust my 12 years of Betfair 'anecdotes' covering 52,000+ markets over your 'judgement', thanks.

And by the way where do you think sports betting was 'invented'?

[wantitall4moi]

You make it sound like Betfair is the ONLY place we play, It isn't. We play at Pinny and the big Asian books too.

Nonetheless, I would think I will trust my 12 years of Betfair 'anecdotes' covering 52,000+ markets over your 'judgement', thanks.

And by the way where do you think sports betting was 'invented'?

greece more than likely

EDIT: and yeah I guess technically Greece is in Europe but the euro trash doesnt wnt ot stake a claim to it, and it surely isnt the first country, or probably even the 10th someone would name when you ask people to name a european country.

[Hareeba!]

You make it sound like Betfair is the ONLY place we play, It isn't. We play at Pinny and the big Asian books too.

Nonetheless, I would think I will trust my 12 years of Betfair 'anecdotes' covering 52,000+ markets over your 'judgement', thanks.

And by the way where do you think sports betting was 'invented'?

[FourLengthsClear]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. You are right, it isn't until you are winning do you begin to realize how dirty betfair can be. I must admit I was previously ignorant but as times change I have become more successful and more aware. All I am trying to do is make others aware as I hope we can all be successful at some point.

I also believed they were skimming in the methods you mentioned. I just haven't been able to find proof or evidence of it. People don't think portions of pennies amount to anything but when it happens millions and millions of times each day it adds up nicely.

The 'skimming' that they do, works a little bit like this. Suppose there is a 12X market on a soccer match with the following odds:

Back odds /Lay odds
Home Team 2.94/2.98
Away Team 3.00/3.05
Draw 3.00/3.05

If I player makes a bet on the home team at 2.94, it will be matched at those odds. The Betfair bot however would actually make proportional lay bets on the draw and on the away team which is the equivalent of backing home team at odds slightly better than 2.94. The bot will also look at other markets, like Asian Handicap for such possibilities.

The player will never get worse odds than those requested but it would make a lot of sense for this 'cross matching' benefit to be given to the player.

[the sink]

Ye, if u lay the 2.08 intstead of betting 1.92 u get a little better odds

[jjgold]

Well Betfair must be doing something right because volume massive
If you live bet the only place you can play is betfair, there is nothing else close