5dimes done with US market Sept 25th *Merged Threads*

[hank_kingsley]

Looks like they are free-rolling now. After I asked to have my pending bets cancelled and refunded, they graded as a loss my bet that Kamela would be president. I agree that it's very likely a loser, but it's not 100% decided.

This both sucks and makes me feel a little better about my decision to have all my futures transferred to BAS. I had a few thousand on some presidential candidates (who are not Trump/Biden), and I was doubtful that they would refund those even if technically they should wait for the election to be decided.

Basically, if they would have refunded those, then it would have been better for me to get everything refunded. If they didn't refund those election bets, it would be better for me to keep everything and get them transferred.

I expected them to screw people so it looks like I made the right call in the transfer.

[johnnyvegas13]

If I remember right when Greek and Bet Jam transitioned to Heritage, we just woke up one morning and our funds and account info were in Heritage. There was no discussion , or any choices it was already done. Heritage then gave you the option to stay or cash out, I remember cashing out half with no issues that day via **. Been there ever since

would of been nice if that happened here

[RangeFinder]

Well, now I'm I the waiting period for the Bitcoin to clear. They said 3-4 days.

I think I might get totally out of offshore. At one point I had 4, now I'm down to one and I think it would be better to get out of their markets. Not sure what I want to do but this does not look good for offshore..

I might be out of sports betting until this settles.

[Brock Landers]

That's the truth.

Bullshit, they have ZERO control over Bitcoin

[KVB]

Bullshit, they have ZERO control over Bitcoin

Bitcoin trades because they let it, make no mistake.

Most users, probably including you, attached some kind of ACH banking system info to your bitcoin, as you couldn't trade without that "verification" taking away the truly anonymous aspect of BTC.

[Ballerholic]

Do you guys recommend staying with them as an EU customer?

[johnnyvegas13]

Do you guys recommend staying with them as an EU customer?

I dunno what they r doing w futures an US customers is not very nice

[Brock Landers]

Bitcoin trades because they let it, make no mistake.

Most users, probably including you, attached some kind of ACH banking system info to your bitcoin, as you couldn't trade without that "verification" taking away the truly anonymous aspect of BTC.

So they allow north korea and Iran and anyone else who wants to evade detection do it?

No sir

[KVB]

So they allow north korea and Iran and anyone else who wants to evade detection do it?

No sir

I don't think you understand quite what we're saying here.

It's cool.

[stake1]

I don't think you understand quite what we're saying here.

It's cool.

Waste of time trying to “teach” him. He’s very low IQ

[Microphone]

I think Greek/Betjamaica just transferred everything lock, stock, and barrel, including outstanding futures, to Heritage. Was smooth as could be. Pinnacle allowed their futures to stand until settled, and paid out when they were, even though they weren't serving the US anymore. I had a Political bet settled and paid out months after they left the US.
There is definitely a date deadline that is being imposed on 5D, either self imposed or by someone externally. This is not being handled nearly as well as Pinny/Greek exiting the US.

Funds got flipped from Bet Jamaica to Heritage. You could stay and enjoy their "perks" or Heritage wrote you a check.

[stake1]

Offshore black market sports betting is done in America. Hold on if you want and cuddle your dreams. Your choice. It's done and over...

Maybe if you post this very same thing another dozen times? You may gather support for your cause

[Starion]

As I recall, to enforce the offshore ban last time they went after the processing side of the business to shut it down. Ultimately, if you can't get your money back to spend it, gambling is pointless. Targeting processors and jailing the owners when they set foot on american soil for just changing flights proved very effective.

This is where I think BTC is vulnerable. All they'd have to do is ban conversions from usd to btc and it would be game over.

[KVB]

Exactly. The power is in the US Treasury.

That's how they can enforce sanctions as well.

On another note, I wonder if BAS has 5D's risk managment files.

[BuckyOne]

This is a massive number of players to get paid. What do you think? 10k players / maybe 25K??? 10 k players x 1k average comes to ten million to move with btc. Just makes no sense the way that they have handled futures and open parlays, etc. Like, whoever is in charge now does not know much about the sportsbook business.

In a way, I can see it. Ownership can pay everybody 50 million to get out and walk with 50 million it might be worth it. What if it is something like the linesmakers walking out? Thought they were deserving of a raise and did not get it. An incompetent linesmaking team could get tagged for big numbers pretty quick and cost the ownership a bundle.

Has agents and credit players got anything to do with it? Never heard of that here but wasn't that a big problem for Pinnacle?

[DontTailMe]

This is a massive number of players to get paid. What do you think? 10k players / maybe 25K??? 10 k players x 1k average comes to ten million to move with btc. Just makes no sense the way that they have handled futures and open parlays, etc. Like, whoever is in charge now does not know much about the sportsbook business.

In a way, I can see it. Ownership can pay everybody 50 million to get out and walk with 50 million it might be worth it. What if it is something like the linesmakers walking out? Thought they were deserving of a raise and did not get it. An incompetent linesmaking team could get tagged for big numbers pretty quick and cost the ownership a bundle.

Has agents and credit players got anything to do with it? Never heard of that here but wasn't that a big problem for Pinnacle?

These are some wacky ideas - they aren't closing for good, just pulling out of the US. I find it hard to believe that "whoever is in charge now does not know much about the sportsbook business".

The obvious answer is probably the correct one. They are pulling out for legal reasons. Either they want to try to clean the slate so that they can re-enter the market legally, or they are feeling heat from the feds and need to walk away. Maybe a little of both.

[turbobets]

Offshore black market sports betting is done in America. Hold on if you want and cuddle your dreams. Your choice. It's done and over...

You made your point, enough already.

[Venom OG]

The timing of this announcement, the way 5Dimes is handling futures, and their recent behavior tells the real story IMO.

They picked September 25 as the last day to withdraw funds -- literally two days before all winning MLB win total futures would have been graded, and no more than a week before NBA Finals futures would have been settled. This way they don't have to pay out any winning bets but they can collect on losers. All the potential winning futures surely amount to no small sum that they are basically going to be able to get away with.

On top of that, they make the announcement at a time when tons of people are depositing to place NFL bets and futures, and forcing them to complete a 1x rollover. If you were a book and you wanted to pick a set of dates to maximize the amount of money you could steal, without outright confiscating customer accounts, you could hardly pick better ones than making the announcement September 7 and ending transactions with U.S. customers on September 25.

The fact that this happened right after a period where no one was betting for over four months is no coincidence IMO. Like a lot of businesses, 5Dimes likely was operating very close to the margins, i.e. they had a lot of debt that they would have been able to pay back on time except in the case of a huge crisis. Then when the crisis hits, they hit insolvency.

The fact that they have been showing a pop-up of casino gaming options after every log-in for the last month or so, has been an annoyance that seemed a fishy to me from the start, and for me it's another piece of the puzzle. It seemed out of character for them, and reeked of them being desperate for money. I have seen several businesses that I've patronized for years go out of business and right before they did, they invariably started to do things out of character for them, things that reeked of desperation.

As for the argument that leaving the U.S. market in order to come back at a later date makes any kind of sense -- it doesn't at all. There is no deal with the DOJ. The DOJ can't touch 5Dimes, if they could they would have done so long ago. I've seen some people say that the climate changed when legal competition came into the fold. Full Tilt Poker got busted by the DOJ at a time when there was no legal competition at all, and there was no deal made either. Nothing changed legally that would have affected 5Dimes' operations -- at all.

To me, all this adds up to the fact that by far the most likely scenario is that 5Dimes is going out of business and they came up with some story that they thought of when they were high or something, in order to reduce panic. If they had any plans on coming back to the U.S. market, this is not the way they would be handling this, because in the end what they are doing amounts to thievery, and no one is ever going to trust them again.

I've personally used 5Dimes as my primary book for the past nine years, and I know there are people here who've been with them much longer. Yesterday was a sad day for sure, as 5Dimes was a super solid book IMO, even if customer service when it came to getting paid was not always the best. Like everyone else, I am crossing my fingers that all of our accounts are settled in a somewhat fair manner, and that we can move on to another book and keep it pushing. Best of luck to everyone in that regard.

[lonegambler23]

This both sucks and makes me feel a little better about my decision to have all my futures transferred to BAS. I had a few thousand on some presidential candidates (who are not Trump/Biden), and I was doubtful that they would refund those even if technically they should wait for the election to be decided.

Basically, if they would have refunded those, then it would have been better for me to get everything refunded. If they didn't refund those election bets, it would be better for me to keep everything and get them transferred.

I expected them to screw people so it looks like I made the right call in the transfer.

how is BAS, same limits same lines as 5dimes?

[BuckyOne]

These are some wacky ideas - they aren't closing for good, just pulling out of the US. I find it hard to believe that "whoever is in charge now does not know much about the sportsbook business".

The obvious answer is probably the correct one. They are pulling out for legal reasons. Either they want to try to clean the slate so that they can re-enter the market legally, or they are feeling heat from the feds and need to walk away. Maybe a little of both.

I find it really hard to believe any operator that knows anything about futures bets would have bungled it this badly. Also, I have rarely believed much of what an offshore cs rep says because they may not know the truth and are coached on what to say. I agree with you about the legal reasons as most likely.

Just about everybody can just walk away from a job. A little harder to close a business like this. If it is for legal reasons, and has to be done in two weeks then each futures bet should have been rerated and paid out at the yes/no prices now available. For example: to refund a futures bet yesterday on the Milwaukee Bucks was stupid as it had a value of maybe 2 bucks for every 100. Open legs just get closed out with no action on that leg and the bet gets paid on the action so far. If Joe Biden was bet at +120 and it is even money now the player gets his bet of 100 back and an extra 10. Somebody on Trump gets 85 or so. The player can then go make his bet somewhere else at current prices and does not get hurt and the book does not make money or lose money on that bet.

I should have said, Like, whoever is in charge now either does not know much about the sportsbook business or does not care if the futures players are treated fairly and just cares about closing the door as fast as possible! For all we know half of the work force is gone already.

Guess, it is all speculation / hope you are right and they stay in business.

[JIBBBY]

We're all getting stiffed.. I'm convinced. No way 5dimes can take care of every American withdraw now, it's a massive drain on their account and finances..

I'm prepared for the stiff.. I got good money in the book right now also.. The money funnel going out for 5dimes must be massive right now.. What is in it for them to continue this payout process to Americans now that they will no longer do business with them?

This book might completely fold.. Players outside of America might be screwed as well.. This book is done think.. Out of business soon.

[RedApples]

So I have pending bets on the Miami Heat to win the East at +1250 and +1150. 180 to pay over 2k..

Is 5Dimes saying, that they are going to refund these wagers if they aren't settled before their deadline for payouts?

At the same time, I had the Brooklyn Nets to win the East that were just settled as losses within the past few days. All of my NBA futures besides the Heat ones were graded as losses. So they are planning to freeroll???

[lonegambler23]

We're all getting stiffed.. I'm convinced. No way 5dimes can take care of every American withdraw now, it's a massive drain on their account and finances..

I'm prepared for the stiff.. I got good money in the book right now also.. The money funnel going out for 5dimes must be massive right now.. What is in it for them to continue this payout process to Americans now that they will no longer do business with them?

This book might completely fold.. Players outside of America might be screwed as well.. This book is done think.. Out of business soon.

idts they took the money out of my acct processing thurs for wire, if they were going to stiff us theyd just close down shop no warning..

[RedApples]

The timing of this announcement, the way 5Dimes is handling futures, and their recent behavior tells the real story IMO.

They picked September 25 as the last day to withdraw funds -- literally two days before all winning MLB win total futures would have been graded, and no more than a week before NBA Finals futures would have been settled. This way they don't have to pay out any winning bets but they can collect on losers. All the potential winning futures surely amount to no small sum that they are basically going to be able to get away with.

On top of that, they make the announcement at a time when tons of people are depositing to place NFL bets and futures, and forcing them to complete a 1x rollover. If you were a book and you wanted to pick a set of dates to maximize the amount of money you could steal, without outright confiscating customer accounts, you could hardly pick better ones than making the announcement September 7 and ending transactions with U.S. customers on September 25.

The fact that this happened right after a period where no one was betting for over four months is no coincidence IMO. Like a lot of businesses, 5Dimes likely was operating very close to the margins, i.e. they had a lot of debt that they would have been able to pay back on time except in the case of a huge crisis. Then when the crisis hits, they hit insolvency.

The fact that they have been showing a pop-up of casino gaming options after every log-in for the last month or so, has been an annoyance that seemed a fishy to me from the start, and for me it's another piece of the puzzle. It seemed out of character for them, and reeked of them being desperate for money. I have seen several businesses that I've patronized for years go out of business and right before they did, they invariably started to do things out of character for them, things that reeked of desperation.

As for the argument that leaving the U.S. market in order to come back at a later date makes any kind of sense -- it doesn't at all. There is no deal with the DOJ. The DOJ can't touch 5Dimes, if they could they would have done so long ago. I've seen some people say that the climate changed when legal competition came into the fold. Full Tilt Poker got busted by the DOJ at a time when there was no legal competition at all, and there was no deal made either. Nothing changed legally that would have affected 5Dimes' operations -- at all.

To me, all this adds up to the fact that by far the most likely scenario is that 5Dimes is going out of business and they came up with some story that they thought of when they were high or something, in order to reduce panic. If they had any plans on coming back to the U.S. market, this is not the way they would be handling this, because in the end what they are doing amounts to thievery, and no one is ever going to trust them again.

I've personally used 5Dimes as my primary book for the past nine years, and I know there are people here who've been with them much longer. Yesterday was a sad day for sure, as 5Dimes was a super solid book IMO, even if customer service when it came to getting paid was not always the best. Like everyone else, I am crossing my fingers that all of our accounts are settled in a somewhat fair manner, and that we can move on to another book and keep it pushing. Best of luck to everyone in that regard.

Gotta agree with most if not all of this. Sadly I've been posting that the writing has been on the wall for 5Dimes for the last year or so. Not really surprised, but really hope they don't scam me on my Miami Heat Eastern Conference Futures by grading them as no action whilst collecting my money on all teams I bet that were eliminated (Nets for a bunch).

[JIBBBY]

idts they took the money out of my acct processing thurs for wire, if they were going to stiff us theyd just close down shop no warning..

Let me know if you get the money and really get funded. Processing does not mean the money will hit your account.. Good thing is you got in early so maybe you'll be lucky. Still I just thought this entire deal over..

How does a book fund every American cashing out all at once? That's crazy? Has this ever happened before with any book? I never seen it happen like this..

5dimes is being sucked dry now if they honor this withdraw system with ALL American players.. That's all I know. That's just using simple common sense!!!!

[ThaTopMoron]

i used 5dimes for a couple weeks once and that was it

just didn't like it

very happy about my decision now

[EasyCover]

Let me know if you get the money and really get funded. Processing does not mean the money will hit your account.. Good thing is you got in early so maybe you'll be lucky. Still I just thought this entire deal over..

How does a book fund every American cashing out all at once? That's crazy? Has this ever happened before with any book? I never seen it happen like this..

5dimes is being sucked dry now if they honor this withdraw system with ALL American players.. That's all I know. That's just using simple common sense!!!!

Pinnacle funded all American accounts almost 20 years ago. But it was not coming off of a money drain like the pandemic. Rationally I think they are screwing people on futures, but plan to pay out. If they don't they are finished. And if they thought they were finished they would just disappear without all this dialogue.

[EasyCover]

i used 5dimes for a couple weeks once and that was it

just didn't like it

very happy about my decision now

Very helpful.

[ksufan19]

The doom and gloom scenarios don't ring true if they are still staying open for non-US customers. Worldwide I imagine they will still have a sizeable customer/cash base.

[15805]

If I remember right when Greek and Bet Jam transitioned to Heritage, we just woke up one morning and our funds and account info were in Heritage. There was no discussion , or any choices it was already done. Heritage then gave you the option to stay or cash out, I remember cashing out half with no issues that day via **. Been there ever since

I remember when ACES GOLD folded right after the Pats beat St Louis in the super bowl as a 14 pt underdog & I
got none of my 32 thousand I still had in AG. Now I have 6,000 in 5D now not as vulnerable! Maybe I'll
got all the 6000 back, I think I might!

[nyplayer33]

Is the poker room 5d has shared with other books ??

[Art Vandelay]

idts they took the money out of my acct processing thurs for wire, if they were going to stiff us theyd just close down shop no warning..

Yep, at least they are being upfront about it. My account with Carib just "magically" closed in June - No email, no notice on the site, the book just took the funds and left. Brutal!

[Barrakuda]

The timing of this announcement, the way 5Dimes is handling futures, and their recent behavior tells the real story IMO.

They picked September 25 as the last day to withdraw funds -- literally two days before all winning MLB win total futures would have been graded, and no more than a week before NBA Finals futures would have been settled. This way they don't have to pay out any winning bets but they can collect on losers. All the potential winning futures surely amount to no small sum that they are basically going to be able to get away with.

On top of that, they make the announcement at a time when tons of people are depositing to place NFL bets and futures, and forcing them to complete a 1x rollover. If you were a book and you wanted to pick a set of dates to maximize the amount of money you could steal, without outright confiscating customer accounts, you could hardly pick better ones than making the announcement September 7 and ending transactions with U.S. customers on September 25.

The fact that this happened right after a period where no one was betting for over four months is no coincidence IMO. Like a lot of businesses, 5Dimes likely was operating very close to the margins, i.e. they had a lot of debt that they would have been able to pay back on time except in the case of a huge crisis. Then when the crisis hits, they hit insolvency.

The fact that they have been showing a pop-up of casino gaming options after every log-in for the last month or so, has been an annoyance that seemed a fishy to me from the start, and for me it's another piece of the puzzle. It seemed out of character for them, and reeked of them being desperate for money. I have seen several businesses that I've patronized for years go out of business and right before they did, they invariably started to do things out of character for them, things that reeked of desperation.

As for the argument that leaving the U.S. market in order to come back at a later date makes any kind of sense -- it doesn't at all. There is no deal with the DOJ. The DOJ can't touch 5Dimes, if they could they would have done so long ago. I've seen some people say that the climate changed when legal competition came into the fold. Full Tilt Poker got busted by the DOJ at a time when there was no legal competition at all, and there was no deal made either. Nothing changed legally that would have affected 5Dimes' operations -- at all.

To me, all this adds up to the fact that by far the most likely scenario is that 5Dimes is going out of business and they came up with some story that they thought of when they were high or something, in order to reduce panic. If they had any plans on coming back to the U.S. market, this is not the way they would be handling this, because in the end what they are doing amounts to thievery, and no one is ever going to trust them again.

I've personally used 5Dimes as my primary book for the past nine years, and I know there are people here who've been with them much longer. Yesterday was a sad day for sure, as 5Dimes was a super solid book IMO, even if customer service when it came to getting paid was not always the best. Like everyone else, I am crossing my fingers that all of our accounts are settled in a somewhat fair manner, and that we can move on to another book and keep it pushing. Best of luck to everyone in that regard.

This is the sharpest post I have seen yet.

I've been with 5D since 98 -- literally betting 300+ days a year there for 22 years. This is not going to end well.

[Barrakuda]

Over/under on the date 5 Dimes gets removed from the top of the Posters' Poll (last updated c. 2014)?

[spro23]

So if they're insolvent and this was a last chance cash grab by them, why would they allow non-us residents to continue playing?

Perhaps they assume the foreigners will stop playing too but the potential cash from the rollover of us residents is enough to make it worth it?