Automotive bailout collapses in Senate

[pico]

UAW is done.

[EBSB52]

They were talking about 14 billion.

After ok-ing 700 billion to help banks... And those banks are refusing to lend to anyone, meaning that cars aren't selling.

In my opinion, home owners and car companies should have received aid directly, and the banks should have been allowed to go bust.

Finally, the voice of reason. This explains how we have elected garbage for the last 30 years. Most posters here are for the fascist machine, just a couple guys like this actually understand the resolve. After this is all done, US automakers will be done or very limited and the rich will be spending taxpayer money (debt increase money, not real money) on 1 month vacations with their supermodel GF's and 3 million workers will be out of a job..... somehow Joe dumbshit American will feel vindicated.

[EBSB52]

As many other Mulit-national corporations.

I still cant believe how they preffer to have no job whatsoever than to drop their salary and wait for this recession to clear and then get back on track.


GM about 2 yrs ago started selling cars in Central America .... they now have ¨dealer ships¨ .... but there not BUILT TOUGH for the streets where I live ... fvkers break all the time ... worst car I have seen.

Toyota and Nissan a WAY superior around here.

I still cant believe how they preffer to have no job whatsoever than to drop their salary and wait for this recession to clear and then get back on track.

And I can't believe that people are so nutless that they let corporate America shaft them. Why fight for < a living wage? You don't fight for something weak, just something legitimate. Oh, take 20/hr, then take 15 and drop your medical, etc.. The American spirit is so weak and pathetic, we really are weak people. Look at European workers, they fight as a united force, not like US workers fvcking each other.

[robzilla]

I went to Wal Mart the other day and saw the car in the parking lot with a sticker on it that said, Still have a job? Keep buying foriegn.

Everything at wal mart is foriegn. wtf.

Anyways, my first car was a Sunfire. and I kept great care of it, and it would break down monthly or get a new re call. i had 9 re calls on it. I imagine alot of other people had or are having the same problems. I wont ever buy an american car again, unless i can get it for 1/3 of the price.

[EBSB52]

I think you should go after Walmart EBSB52. They are the ones that make toys for 25c an hour in China and sell for $25 a piece in the US for profit. It's called capitalism and this is why Walmart doesn't need a bailout. If you like blood sucking greedy unions go live in France. This is a capitalistic country. Socialism will never work in the US.

I think you should go after Walmart EBSB52. They are the ones that make toys for 25c an hour in China and sell for $25 a piece in the US for profit. It's called capitalism and this is why Walmart doesn't need a bailout.

Great, so we agree; gross capitalism is exploitation. In socialism these scummy gross capitalists aren't allowed to exploit via government controls. Macrostructurally, the lack of regulation is the real culprit here.

If you like blood sucking greedy unions go live in France.

Right, when workers have the gall stand together, they are thieves; when corporatiosn stand together they are great American capitalists.

This is a capitalistic country. Socialism will never work in the US.

Good point, and American Capitalism has worked so well, esp since deregulation.

http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

All industrialized world currencies have kicked our asses and you say our system works? We have a lower rate of unioinized employees than these horrible socialist countries that are unionized, this fascist country deprives 50M people of any healthcare and provides barely partial coverge for much of the other 250M, except for the beloved rich of course, and you still argue that American gross capitalism works? Niiiiiiiice.


It doesn't matter where I live, it's a cop-out to defend a busted system by way of saying all who disagree should leave, esp since our system was supposedly based upon constructive dissent.

[EBSB52]

The America worker is done.

Fixed it for ya.

[pico]

it is kind of sad watching this UAW guy reasoning UAW wage is competitive with toyota. he doesn't know UAW is just excess baggage on a sinking ship.

[daggerkobe]

Looks like Deuce will have to get a job at Honda washing cars.

[pico]

Looks like Deuce will have to get a job at Honda washing cars.

[EBSB52]

it is kind of sad watching this UAW guy reasoning UAW wage is competitive with toyota. he doesn't know UAW is just excess baggage on a sinking ship.

That doesn't really address the major issue.

I would like to see an honest wage scale from all of these automakers, not just watered down 3rd-hand reports. Much of the costs are probably mismanagement tacked on to the labor costs. I wonder what GM CEO's make as compared to the Jap makers?

[pico]

i want to watch the movie, gong ho, again.

[JC]

GM should declare bankruptcy and restructure, the same things some of the banks should have done.

Equity goes to 0, the debt obligations are wiped out and creditors become shareholders of the newly issued stock. They elect a new board that would replace the management and get a fresh start.

I have no problem with the Feds guaranteeing the warranties as part of the bankruptcy.

That's what should happen.

[pico]

GM should declare bankruptcy and restructure, the same things some of the banks should have done.

Equity goes to 0, the debt obligations are wiped out and creditors become shareholders of the newly issued stock. They elect a new board that would replace the management and get a fresh start.

I have no problem with the Feds guaranteeing the warranties as part of the bankruptcy.

That's what should happen.

yep. tax payers money should not be used to paid off debt.

[daggerkobe]

I went to Wal Mart the other day and saw the car in the parking lot with a sticker on it that said, Still have a job? Keep buying foriegn.

Everything at wal mart is foriegn. wtf.

Anyways, my first car was a Sunfire. and I kept great care of it, and it would break down monthly or get a new re call. i had 9 re calls on it. I imagine alot of other people had or are having the same problems. I wont ever buy an american car again, unless i can get it for 1/3 of the price.

Welfare-Mart shoppers are ignorant anyways. They think saving 50 cents on pork rinds is more economical than paying billions in welfare to their employees each year.

Costco is the best. They actually pay their employees living wages and provide affordable healthcare.

My first car was a Cavalier Z24 (similar to Sunbird/Sunfire) and it blew its transmission with less than 200 miles left on the warranty. It was also in the shop for close to a month.

My second car was an Acura Integra and this is when I realized that cars weren't suppose to rattle like spray cans nor sound like I was in the eye of the tornado due to the deafening wind noise. It also got 27mpg compared to just 20 in the Z24, even though the Integra had more horsepower.

[robzilla]

Welfare-Mart shoppers are ignorant anyways. They think saving 50 cents on pork rinds is more economical than paying billions in welfare to their employees each year.

Costco is the best. They actually pay their employees living wages and provide affordable healthcare.

My first car was a Cavalier Z24 (similar to Sunbird/Sunfire) and it blew its transmission with less than 200 miles left on the warranty. It was also in the shop for close to a month.

My second car was an Acura Integra and this is when I realized that cars weren't suppose to rattle like spray cans nor sound like I was in the eye of the tornado due to the deafening wind noise. It also got 27mpg compared to just 20 in the Z24, even though the Integra had more horsepower.

Amen Brother

[wtf]

ebs, i know your the champion of the american worker.

but we live on the planet earth.

we sell stuff to other countries, and we buy thier stuff.

so we have to deal with the economics of the global economy, and all the baggage that goes along with it.

if someone makes a better car , that uses less gas for a cheaper price people will buy it. too bad.

[Shark79]

"The American Dream" became "The American Horror" thanks to just a few.

[pico]

american dream do not exist. most small business owners have heart conditions.

[EBSB52]

GM should declare bankruptcy and restructure, the same things some of the banks should have done.

Equity goes to 0, the debt obligations are wiped out and creditors become shareholders of the newly issued stock. They elect a new board that would replace the management and get a fresh start.

I have no problem with the Feds guaranteeing the warranties as part of the bankruptcy.

That's what should happen.

I could go for that if the 700B wasn't gifted to the banks. Truthfully the gov should either take over the banking industry or do like Canada and guarantee home loans, hence taking the risk off of the banks.

The US has shown its fascist fiscal colors by gifting 700B and refusing to loan 2% of that for industry, an aspect of the US that is needed over finance.

[picantel]

Bah now they are saying Bush may step in and directly help. This is crap and the consumers will once again take it up the ass. Make money keep it. Lose money get bailed out. WTF is wrong with this country lately. In my youth I worked at Caterpillar and the union guys there made a freaking fortune and no joke some of them could not even read and had high school diplomas yet were making more than doctors.

[EBSB52]

ebs, i know your the champion of the american worker.

but we live on the planet earth.

we sell stuff to other countries, and we buy thier stuff.

so we have to deal with the economics of the global economy, and all the baggage that goes along with it.

if someone makes a better car , that uses less gas for a cheaper price people will buy it. too bad.

Yea, I hear ya. A lot of truth to that, but as virtually all other countries have, we need socialized meds. If you are gonna use the world market as a comparison, then we need to use other world attributes as well. Socialized meds and other svs would take the burden off the employee/employer relationship; it would no longer have to be bargained.

The US has one of the most fvcked models of how to run a government, I can't think of one nation trying to emmulate us.

[EBSB52]

"The American Dream" became "The American Horror" thanks to just a few.

Right, and teh answer is to bust unions to further distance the American dream.... just don't get it.

[pavyracer]

Name one country in the world where it is heavily unionized that prospers? None. Unions are the death trap to economic prosperity.

[pico]

union increases production cost. people are getting too expensive now days because as country prosper people's living expectation grows out pacing the reality.

[robzilla]

The American Dream....lol.
You mean the get rich dream.
America is the land of everyone for themselves, and if you cant make it then go **** urself.
im happy i live in a country where we atleast try to take care of each other.

[pavyracer]

The American Dream....lol.
You mean the get rich dream.
America is the land of everyone for themselves, and if you cant make it then go **** urself.
im happy i live in a country where we atleast try to take care of each other.

Iraq?

[pico]

The American Dream....lol.
You mean the get rich dream.
America is the land of everyone for themselves, and if you cant make it then go **** urself.
im happy i live in a country where we atleast try to take care of each other.

canada is cold.

[Chi_archie]

the White house is gonna Bail-out the failed bail out

[EBSB52]

Name one country in the world where it is heavily unionized that prospers? None. Unions are the death trap to economic prosperity.

Would you lile to compare currency values and trends? That was my point.

But if you need 1 example, Taiwan is a very prosperous nation and to your dismay, they are very unionized: http://www.1worldcommunication.org/t...government.htm

The government is very proactive in this realm.

It's hard for a US citizen to comprehend worker rights and we are so dissiminated as far as compassion amongst all people, we are more a nation of jealousness, so we don't want to see other people succeed. The really pathetic part is when workers denounce other worker's right to organize, as this directly comes back to lower every workers wages.

You didn't address my point about the failure of American Capitalim; I wonder why?

[JC]

I could go for that if the 700B wasn't gifted to the banks. Truthfully the gov should either take over the banking industry or do like Canada and guarantee home loans, hence taking the risk off of the banks.

The US has shown its fascist fiscal colors by gifting 700B and refusing to loan 2% of that for industry, an aspect of the US that is needed over finance.

Are you saying that you, like me, were opposed to the bank bailout, but since they did it, they should also be obligated to do the auto bailout in the name of fairness?

Do two wrongs make a right here?

[EBSB52]

union increases production cost. people are getting too expensive now days because as country prosper people's living expectation grows out pacing the reality.

union increases production cost.

Yes, and also increases the consumer buying base; why do you think we are getting these stimulus checks? Stimulus ala fascist Ronnie Reagan gave it to the rich, they sat on it and it didn't trickle down, hence recession after another. Stimulus to the ** or poor is usually spent immediately, feeding producers to hire more, pay more.

I keep hearing this regurgitation from neo-cons at how bad social welfare is, how bad unionized labor is, yet when we test these systems the neo-con plan falls HUGE; the social plan sails. Would you guys like examples/data or just keep living in with your falsehoods?

[EBSB52]

The American Dream....lol.
You mean the get rich dream.
America is the land of everyone for themselves, and if you cant make it then go **** urself.
im happy i live in a country where we atleast try to take care of each other.

EXACTLY.....are you, as ignorant Americans seem to think everyone is, desperate to move here?

[pavyracer]

EXACTLY.....are you, as ignorant Americans seem to think everyone is, desperate to move here?

May I ask what is your nationality? You seem to have a hatriot against Americans.

[EBSB52]

Iraq?

Thank you, I wonder who would pop up first with that. Shall we go to Asia next? How about Africa. See, Americans can't touch Canada, Western Europe or Australia. America isn't the worst by far, we just suck when it comes to human treatment and can't use the above nations by comaprison. It's facist, figure it out.

[EBSB52]

canada is cold.

Thermally, yes. America is cold if you are a poor person w/o health coverage. Or hell, even with coverge they can be cold; they decide if the payout for the care is more than the payout for a lawsuit.