Jamison to the Cavs

[whatsgood5]

Cavs need new players once LJ leaves.

I have a hard time believing he'll leave

[williams22]

I don't think so Williams... Amare shoots a higher percentage but that's because he get's more dunks. He's a better FT shooter than Jamison but Jamison can shoot the 3 and has better range IMO.

You have to dig a little deeper than just FG%. I don't have the numbers on this computer, but I believe Amar'e is 48% on long 2s (over 15 feet) in the last 4 years. Jamison is more around 39%. Jamison definitely has longer range, but that's not necessarily what the Cavs need.

That being said, Amar'e was high risk between his contract situation and that fact that he's still a young guy looking for his numbers. That won't be an issue with Jamison as he's going to be so happy to be on a winning team for once in his life he'll just be giddy.

Again, if the Cavs resign Z, they just got an all-star caliber player and a 3rd string PG for the 30th pick in the draft. Wow.

[Tree Rollins]

My fingers are crossed as well. I can't think of any role player that's as important to a franchise as Z is. If they can manage to get him back this trade is pure genius. Danny Ferry has now given up basically nothing in return for Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison in the last 2 years.

Nothing except for cap flexibility. Hopefully these trades workout because they have an awful lot of money tied up in these guys. They won't be able to make any significant free agency additions for years.

[KiDBaZkiT]

And Willy show me a link or something that says Z is gonna get bought out. You keep saying it but I havent heard or seen anything about it. You act like hes some scrub that no team will have a use for. And if he does get bought out and all that who says he is gonna come back and play the same? This trade shit could easily affect his play.

[williams22]

Come playoff time who will defend the paint when Shaq is on the bench? If you think Jamison is long enough to guard Howard/Gortat or Gasol/Bynum(if you get to finals) your just a homer. Sure Z wasnt the best defender but you cant teach length. Another weakness is your team chemistry isnt shit now. Dumb move.

First off, Gortat will never been a concern of any team LOL.

Second, Z is most likely going to be bought out by the Wizards and will resign with the Cavs, so they lost NOTHING. Also, how is the team's chemistry ruined? Jamison is a pro's pro. The guy is nothing but a model teammate and will be perfectly accepted by Bron, Shaq and everyone else.

I don't see how you can possibly criticize a trade that brings a 20/9 guy over for basically nothing.

[Tree Rollins]

I do like the trade, but Amar'e is a better midrange shooter...by a good amount. Jamison will accept being a role player a lot easier than Amar'e would though. Also, we didn't lose Hickson or Moon in the deal.

Amare is a better midrange shooter then who? Jamison? Jamison had one of the best midrange games in the league and always has. He gets most of his points from midrange. It's not even debatable that he is a better midrange shooter then Amare.

[williams22]

And Willy show me a link or something that says Z is gonna get bought out. You keep saying it but I havent heard or seen anything about it. You act like hes some scrub that no team will have a use for. And if he does get bought out and all that who says he is gonna come back and play the same? This trade shit could easily affect his play.

This is a cap-clearing move by Washington. Their only motivation for not offering Z a buyout would be to spite Cleveland, which I doubt that they will do now that they have committed to rebuilding. If Z returns all it does is put one less month of wear and tear on his body.

[williams22]

Nothing except for cap flexibility. Hopefully these trades workout because they have an awful lot of money tied up in these guys. They won't be able to make any significant free agency additions for years.

They just cleared Z's $11.5 Million from the books and Shaq's $21 million is gone after this year. Lebron is the only one who will be signing a big contract next year. They don't have tons of space, but it won't hurt them either. Also, they will have Bird rights to Shaq and Lebron.

[williams22]

Amare is a better midrange shooter then who? Jamison? Jamison had one of the best midrange games in the league and always has. He gets most of his points from midrange. It's not even debatable that he is a better midrange shooter then Amare.

I don't just make shit up. Amare is a better midrange shooter:

[Bluehorseshoe]

It's scary, but it looks like the Clippers are in position to land a big free agent next year.

[KiDBaZkiT]

This is a cap-clearing move by Washington. Their only motivation for not offering Z a buyout would be to spite Cleveland, which I doubt that they will do now that they have committed to rebuilding. If Z returns all it does is put one less month of wear and tear on his body.

Yea I cant imagine a team would spite another team that eliminated them 2 years in a row from the first round. No other team is gonna buy out Z just to help Cleveland. Washington doesnt need to worry about clearing room til next year, they arent going to try and rebuild everything for the end of the this year. Z's contract is up at the end of the year, why buy it out now? In the mean time he fills the roster and gives them scoring.

[williams22]

Yea I cant imagine a team would spite another team that eliminated them 2 years in a row from the first round. No other team is gonna buy out Z just to help Cleveland. Washington doesnt need to worry about clearing room til next year, they arent going to try and rebuild everything for the end of the this year. Z's contract is up at the end of the year, why buy it out now? In the mean time he fills the roster and gives them scoring.

Because if they buy him out it actually costs them less money in the long run.

[Tree Rollins]

I don't just make shit up. Amare is a better midrange shooter:

So amare is a better shooter because he has steve nash to drive and pull in defenders and then he kicks it out to a wide open Amare?

and jamison sucks because he has no point guard and has to create all his shots on his own and is always contested.

Go watch some wizards games and then watch some suns game and tell me Amare is a better midrange shooter. you can pull all the stats you want. The stats tell us a lot of ridiculous things that are untrue. You can find stats that will tell you Kobe is the 10th best player in the league but that doesn't make it so.
I prefer to actually watch the games and use common sense.

[jimmy lytle]

with lebron blocking shots are cavs a good team anyway

[williams22]

So amare is a better shooter because he has steve nash to drive and pull in defenders and then he kicks it out to a wide open Amare?

and jamison sucks because he has no point guard and has to create all his shots on his own and is always contested.

Go watch some wizards games and then watch some suns game and tell me Amare is a better midrange shooter. you can pull all the stats you want. The stats tell us a lot of ridiculous things that are untrue. You can find stats that will tell you Kobe is the 10th best player in the league but that doesn't make it so.
I prefer to actually watch the games and use common sense.

Call it what you want, I'm just telling you that Amare has been a better midrange shooter this year. I still like the Jamison trade though. I can't wait to watch opposing PFs try to help out on Lebron's drive while still having to recover to Jamison for the 3. I do expect Jamison's %'s to increase on the Cavs, I'm just telling you how things are currently.

[williams22]

with lebron blocking shots are cavs a good team anyway

English? Please?

[SpreadSniper]

My fingers are crossed as well. I can't think of any role player that's as important to a franchise as Z is. If they can manage to get him back this trade is pure genius. Danny Ferry has now given up basically nothing in return for Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison in the last 2 years.

Im a bald, tall Ukrainian white guy....... I've been watching the Cavs and getting teased by my old lady about how every time she see Ilgauskas she says "that's you Ry!".... I HATED IT..... after watching them play for a while now, its hard not to love the guy.... if I had a second favorite player, Im sure he'd be it.

[williams22]

Im a bald, tall Ukrainian white guy....... I've been watching the Cavs and getting teased by my old lady about how every time she see Ilgauskas she says "that's you Ry!".... I HATED IT..... after watching them play for a while now, its hard not to love the guy.... if I had a second favorite player, Im sure he'd be it.

The worst part is that the Z puppet commercial will be put on hold for 30 days now. Bummer.

[Tree Rollins]

I don't just make shit up. Amare is a better midrange shooter:

You don't make this stuff up? I don't make this stuff up either. According to espns PER ratings, Greg Oden is a better player and more important to his team then Kobe Bryant. using your logic, there is no way to dispute that. It is fact, Oden is better then Kobe.

[williams22]

You don't make this stuff up? I don't make this stuff up either. According to espns PER ratings, Greg Oden is a better player and more important to his team then Kobe Bryant. using your logic, there is no way to dispute that. It is fact, Oden is better then Kobe.

You said my statement that Amare is better midrange shooter this year was absurd and that Jamison gets most of his points from the midrange. I posted stats that countered that. I'm not saying Jamison stats won't improve on the Cavs, I'm just saying an argument can be made for Amare.

Also, while I understand your Oden/Kobe analogy, PER is a measure of efficiency on a per minute basis, so using it to compare players who play drastically different positions or minutes per game is basically useless.

[jsmithj88]

this is a way better trade for the cavs. amare would be more likely to affect team chemistry than jamison. big trades dont always affect team chemisty as long as the player coming in is a team player. look at how gasol fits in with the lakers.

y would the wizards keep Z for the rest of the year? they arent gonna start him, hes there for his contract. he will be bought out and end up with the cavs. wizards will save more money that way. besides, hes a long time vet, i dont see them hanging onto him. wizards are are playing for next next next season.

[Tree Rollins]

You said my statement that Amare is better midrange shooter this year was absurd and that Jamison gets most of his points from the midrange. I posted stats that countered that. I'm not saying Jamison stats won't improve on the Cavs, I'm just saying an argument can be made for Amare.

Also, while I understand your Oden/Kobe analogy, PER is a measure of efficiency on a per minute basis, so using it to compare players who play drastically different positions or minutes per game is basically useless.

The stats are saying that if you played both guys for the same amount of minutes, whether it be 20 or 40. That oden is more effective. It's that simple.
All i know is that i've watched a lot of Suns games and a lot of wizards games and Jamison is a better midrange shooter and a lot of people who know NBA basketball say Jamison has one of the best midrange games in the league. You can pull whatever stats you want but it's just not that cut and dry. I wish it was as simple as looking a a few numbers and saying "this guy is better then that guy at this, just look at the stats" There's a reason scouts actually go to games and don't just look at box scores.

[KiDBaZkiT]

Because if they buy him out it actually costs them less money in the long run.

Well keep your fingers crossed, ill give you 25 SBR points if they buy him out, if they dont you dont gotta give me anything. Dont get me wrong your starting 5 is much better now, but Orlando/LA/Denver those benches are much deeper/longer than yours now.

[williams22]

Well keep your fingers crossed, ill give you 25 SBR points if they buy him out, if they dont you dont gotta give me anything. Dont get me wrong your starting 5 is much better now, but Orlando/LA/Denver those benches are much deeper/longer than yours now.

Sounds like a deal.

I disagree that the Cavs aren't deeper. We aren't deep at center, but we can get away with Andy being the backup center.

The Cavs bench now consists of: Varejao, Delonte, Moon, Jawad Williams, Boobie, Powe, Hickson

That's 12 deep before you even get to Telfair, Danny Green, and Darnell Jackson. If Z returns, that's 13 guys who could all see time in the playoffs. That's pretty damn impressive compared what they had last year.

[jjgold]

James is a one man team no matter who plays for them, it will still all be on him to win the title.

[williams22]

And Willy show me a link or something that says Z is gonna get bought out. You keep saying it but I havent heard or seen anything about it. You act like hes some scrub that no team will have a use for. And if he does get bought out and all that who says he is gonna come back and play the same? This trade shit could easily affect his play.

To get back to this point now that I have some more info...

Washington is now within $1 million of the luxury tax threshold. Aside from avoiding the luxury tax, getting under the threshold gives them a share of the luxury taxes paid by other teams this year, which I believe gives them an extra $4 million in cash. Buying out Z would put them under this.

Once Z is bought out, he will be pursued by Dallas and the Cavs. Dallas can offer a maximum of $1.3 million. The Cavs have their $1.99 bi-annual exception still remaining. Aside from being able to offer more money, Z is a Cleveland lifer and has no desire to leave.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Well keep your fingers crossed, ill give you 25 SBR points if they buy him out, if they dont you dont gotta give me anything. Dont get me wrong your starting 5 is much better now, but Orlando/LA/Denver those benches are much deeper/longer than yours now.

They will buy him out... It's a foregone conclusion. Z won't resign with anyone but the Cav's and hopefully get a ring.

[Tree Rollins]

To get back to this point now that I have some more info...

Washington is now within $1 million of the luxury tax threshold. Aside from avoiding the luxury tax, getting under the threshold gives them a share of the luxury taxes paid by other teams this year, which I believe gives them an extra $4 million in cash. Buying out Z would put them under this.

Once Z is bought out, he will be pursued by Dallas and the Cavs. Dallas can offer a maximum of $1.3 million. The Cavs have their $1.99 bi-annual exception still remaining. Aside from being able to offer more money, Z is a Cleveland lifer and has no desire to leave.

If washington can get rid of that damned Arenas contract they'll be sitting pretty. Good luck with that though.

[onlooker]

Nike has had bad timing with those puppet commercials. Last year they wanted Lebron/Kobe in the finals, and now when Big Z appears in the commercials, Big Z gets traded.

[Grind House]

Williams, not saying anything bad about you, but everytime the Cavs are brought up, it seems like you are always the first one to post in the thread then. Do you have some sort of Cavs thread making device implanted inside you that lets you know when they are the topic of discussion?

Williams is Chris Broussard from ESPN.

[williams22]

John Hollinger breaks down the Wizards financial situation in more detail:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=TradeGrades-100218

[lakerboy]

James is a one man team no matter who plays for them, it will still all be on him to win the title.

He will have some help now but you are right it will still come down to him

[lakerboy]

Williams is Chris Broussard from ESPN.

Williams are you really Chris Broussard- i mean you are Chris BRoussard right.

[Tree Rollins]

John Hollinger breaks down the Wizards financial situation in more detail:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...eGrades-100218

I was going to say yesterday that i thought you got all your info, or most of it, from espn insider. I couldn't read that article b/c I don't have insider, but i do know the Wizards have helped themselves out a lot by dumping some of these contracts.

[williams22]

I was going to say yesterday that i thought you got all your info, or most of it, from espn insider. I couldn't read that article b/c I don't have insider, but i do know the Wizards have helped themselves out a lot by dumping some of these contracts.

Insider is nice, but I don't use it much. I find twitter to be the best source for up-to-the-minute info. I like following the beat writers for teams instead of ESPN's national guys as they tend to have the stories first. Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (twitter: PDcavsinsider) is a great resource.

For those without insider:
Cavaliers: I can already hear the league's other GMs scoffing: "Sure, it's easy to make a deal when you're willing to spend more than anyone else." That said, I love this deal for the Cavs. Loveitloveitloveitloveitloveit. They hit a home run here.
Cleveland spent a ton of money, but in basketball terms they basically got Antawn Jamison for free. Ilgauskas, presumably, will go back to Cleveland in 30 days after reaching a buyout agreement with Washington. Meanwhile, the pick the Cavs surrendered was pretty much worthless to them anyway: Anybody they would have drafted next year wouldn't be likely to contribute to the Cavs anyway, like 2009 draft picks Christian Eyenga and Danny Green. And the pick certainly wasn't going to help them this postseason.
I like Jamison for Cleveland better than the primary alternative, Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire, for a few reasons. First, he makes less money, and there isn't the issue with his potentially leaving after the season. Second, he's a more natural "stretch 4" than Stoudemire, and that's the one area in which the Cavs were most lacking.
I've had a couple people tell me Jamison is a low-efficiency offensive player, but that' s just not true. His shooting percentages are only average, but what these folks miss is his miniscule Turnover Rate -- his mark is half that of Stoudemire's, for instance.
Jamison gets most of his points without dribbling or isolating one-on-one -- most of his points come in the flow. On a team for which LeBron James, a gifted passer, is doing most of the work with the ball, Jamison's ability to make a quick cut that generates a shot should prove valuable. The last time he was in a similar situation, playing with Steve Nash in Dallas, he shot 53.5 percent from the field, posted his career high in PER and won the Sixth Man of the Year award.
While Jamison's age is a concern at 33, he has kept himself in great shape and rarely misses games. Health-wise, he might be a better risk than Stoudemire (who's undergone surgery for both knees and a detached retina) even though he's six years older. Throw in the little matter of Jamison not costing the Cavs anything important, and it's clear which proposed trade was better.
Cleveland was able to cut the deal without including prized young forward J.J. Hickson because it was willing to help Washington get under the luxury tax. The Wizards dumped much more money with this trade than a straight Hickson-and-Ilgauskas-for-Jamison swap would have allowed -- some creative deal-making by the Cavs' braintrust to engineer this one, as well as heavy financial commitments by Cleveland ownership.
Now about that money: Cleveland not only took on Jamison and the $28 million he's owed for the two seasons after this one, they also took on $2.7 million owed to Telfair next year -- it's technically a player option, but he should return as he has no chance of matching that dough as a free agent. Adding Telfair will cost an additional $2.5 million in luxury tax payments this year, and if and when the Cavs re-sign Ilgauskas, that will tack on additional tax. Telfair, incidentally, is currently injured and near-useless even when healthy, especially on a floor-spacing team like the Cavs.
Cleveland presumably will face those payments again next year. Technically Cleveland is projected at the moment to be under the tax threshold next season, but this summer the Cavs will either re-sign Ilgauskas and Shaquille O'Neal or parlay them into other assets; they're likely to use their midlevel exception too. All told, they're looking at a cost of $3.5 million this year and several million more over the next two.
So in grading this trade, why does Cleveland get an "A-" and not a full-fledged "A"? Because the Cavs took a risk here, however small, that could end up biting them in a big way this summer. Cleveland helped the Clippers get more cap room, and one thing the Clips could potentially do with that cap room is pursue LeBron James. Granted, it's highly unlikely -- really, LeBron is gonna play for an owner like Donald Sterling? -- but obviously, if the Cavs lose LeBron, any benefit from acquiring Jamison would seem miniscule in comparison.
Of course, this also could be the deal that locks James into staying. If he wins a title this year and sees a future with the cast of productive snipers Cleveland has built around him, there's no reason for him to consider L.A., N.Y. or any other alternative. Cleveland: A-


Wizards: The Wizards stuck with Jamison and Caron Butler a year too long, and finally had to settle mostly for salary-cap relief to get rid of them. Sure, they'll get to pick either 29th or 30th in this year's draft, but that pick is not likely to provide any difference to Washington's future. Neither is Preldzic, a 2007 late-second rounder thrown in for posterity's sake. So why do it? For a couple of reasons. The Wizards finally realized that it's time to blow things up, and the cap relief they'll get here is significant. Washington was able to lump in Drew Gooden with Jamison and took back only Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Al Thornton; that saves them about $2 million in luxury tax, even with Ilgauskas's trade kicker.
They'll probably reach a buyout agreement with Ilgauskas, too, and the money they'll get back from that arrangement should be enough to put them under the luxury-tax line -- they're only $483,401 over as of now -- which will bring in an additional $4 million or so in distributions from the league. So in total this deal is worth roughly $7 million in Washington just in 2009-10 savings, not to mention the $28 million over the next two years they won't have to pay Jamison.
Basketball-wise, the important part is that Washington now has enough cap room after the season -- roughly $20 million -- to pursue any free agent it wishes. Clearly, D.C.'s denuded roster isn't a high-profile destination, but with a high lottery pick and some smart additions, the Wizards can build their way back up quickly. Given the salary cap Armageddon they were facing before this week's trades, it's about the best one can hope for.
As for Thornton, he was a necessary component of the deal but basically gives the Wizards exactly what they don't need -- another quasi-talented, shot-happy young guy who has no idea how to play. Washington's quartet of Thornton, Nick Young, Andray Blatche, and JaVale McGee might be the most clueless unit any single NBA team could muster. Thornton will likely start at small forward with Butler gone, and he has one year left on his contract after this one to prove my scouting report incorrect. Washington: B-