Strikeforce: Rockhold vs. Kennedy

**Beelzebubzy** · 07-15-12, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by bjpenn85

in which category would you like to put Hamman??

Poor striking defense
good chin
overrated wine yes overrated wine

**Beelzebubzy** · 07-15-12, 10:12 AM

thought this was pretty funny

Gambling Fury ‏@GamblingFury Actually, Sapp vs Comrier can't happen. They'd hand Sapp a pen to sign the contract & that mere contact would make him fall down and tap out

**v1y** · 07-15-12, 11:44 AM

rockhold vs kennedy wasn't a bad fight at all. kennedy was a strong wrestler, and rockhold did a good job defending. kennedy's striking was weak, but that's life.

**Vaughany** · 07-15-12, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Beelzebubzy

Poor striking defense
good chin
overrated wine yes overrated wine

haha

**Vaughany** · 07-15-12, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

Of course but IMO guys with "good" chins would've walked through the Catone & Maia strikes without being rocked. His legs tend to buckle when he gets hit flush. I would say that while his chin is soft, his recovery is quite good... I agree. The Hamill headkick KO is more an example of poor striking defence than chin issues. Virtually no one can eat that kick.

I try to draw a clear distinction between "chin", "recovery" and "striking defence" because it often gets muddled in matchup analysis and can skew people's impressions of how the fight will go; I thought Wanderlei would get KOed far less likely than most vs Rich because the public was shitting on Wand's chin when, in reality, it's mainly his striking defence that has regressed as he's slowing down with age. Between his excellent recovery and Rich's mediocre power, the outcome would be totally different than someone with just a shot chin like Chuck.

So versus Luke, I don't know if between Munoz's lackluster striking defence & weak chin he'll be able to survive on the feet; he does have better resiliency than Jardine these days. Regardless, it's all hypothetical because I imagine that most people don't care to see it.

Ok, I see what ur sayin, and ur quite right, a distinction should be drawn between "chin", "recovery" and "striking defence", and often I see flippant comments like for example "Bisping has a glass chin"...I'm sure I've seen tht on sherdog a couple of times and been like WTF!

**spargament** · 07-15-12, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Thor4140

Luke is a good fighter. Nobody is gonna look good chasing a guy for five rounds who is a world class wrestler. there is a reason Kennedy kept running and it wasn't because Luke is a shitty fighter. His length will cause a lot of problems to guys who actually want to fight.

Luke embodies mediocrity. Kennedy is not a world class wrestler. Kennedy kept running because he's even more inept than Rockhold. Rockhold's striking reminds me of a watered down Jake Shields' circa the Mayhem fight in '09. Having a decent wingspan alone means absolutely nothing. Guys who actually want to fight would see Rockhold and knock him the f*** out.

Originally posted by Demonata

Rockhold is a good strikeforce Fighter. Would not mind seeing Gracie go into UFC though. He would do great there.

Rockhold is the epitome of why everyone started calling it Strikefarce back in the day; and I think it's been long enough to where that should be brought back into the common vernacular. So yeah, sure, maybe he is a good 'Farce fighter.

Roger Gracie I'm not sold on yet. Every single win he has is against someone irrelevant either due to lack of skill, or because they were SO far past their prime. The one fight that meant something (against Lawal), he lost. I'm not saying he doesn't have it, but I just don't want to see another Rolles Gracie/Beltran fight.

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

Of course but IMO guys with "good" chins would've walked through the Catone & Maia strikes without being rocked. His legs tend to buckle when he gets hit flush. I would say that while his chin is soft, his recovery is quite good... I agree. The Hamill headkick KO is more an example of poor striking defence than chin issues. Virtually no one can eat that kick.

I try to draw a clear distinction between "chin", "recovery" and "striking defence" because it often gets muddled in matchup analysis and can skew people's impressions of how the fight will go; I thought Wanderlei would get KOed far less likely than most vs Rich because the public was shitting on Wand's chin when, in reality, it's mainly his striking defence that has regressed as he's slowing down with age. Between his excellent recovery and Rich's mediocre power, the outcome would be totally different than someone with just a shot chin like Chuck.

So versus Luke, I don't know if between Munoz's lackluster striking defence & weak chin he'll be able to survive on the feet; he does have better resiliency than Jardine these days. Regardless, it's all hypothetical because I imagine that most people don't care to see it.

Munoz doesn't have a weak chin. His striking defense while also average at best is also miles and miles and miles above both Rockhold's and Kennedy's.

Originally posted by PunisherIND

its not a good sign when the promotion still has nick diaz highlights in the opening sequence.

I couldn't agree more. Why not just throw in Henderson, Shields, Fedor, Diaz, Melendez, Thompson, Mousasi and Overeem into a video package, skip all the actual fights, and make the promotion seem far more legitimate than it is right now

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-15-12, 01:04 PM

Chin: Your ability to absorb damage from a blow to the head. Clean or otherwise.

Defense: Your ability to avoid getting hit with clean punches, or avoid getting hit all together.

I don't understand how you can get the two confused. Is this just part of having a "cerebral" argument about a hypothetical fight that will probably never happen?

**Vaughany** · 07-15-12, 01:54 PM

**Inkwell77** · 07-15-12, 04:39 PM

I'm not a very good MMA handicapper, but does anyone think there is still a ton of potential with Woodley?

I mean, the guy looks like he might have everything just needs a bit more experience and yesterday was a great learning experience? Physically he is a beast, he has a chin, real good wrestler. Needs to work on his stand up it seems.
Marquardt just looked like a quality quality fighter yesterday, right?

**Thor4140** · 07-15-12, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by spargament

Luke embodies mediocrity. Kennedy is not a world class wrestler. Kennedy kept running because he's even more inept than Rockhold. Rockhold's striking reminds me of a watered down Jake Shields' circa the Mayhem fight in '09. Having a decent wingspan alone means absolutely nothing.

Yeah a watered down Shields. Yeah okay lmfao

**Beelzebubzy** · 07-15-12, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by DeFactoCrippler

Chin: Your ability to absorb damage from a blow to the head. Clean or otherwise.

Defense: Your ability to avoid getting hit with clean punches, or avoid getting hit all together.

I think the confusion in "chin" is that does getting rocked mean you have a poor chin? For example, edgar was rocked in Maynard 2 and 3 and Bendo, but he recoevered. Does this show he has a great chin because he didnt go out or a poor chin because he was rocked?
I'll take the former. I do not think all chins can be like Cote, Leben, Hendo, where you hit them with a shovel and then they ask for another

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-15-12, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Beelzebubzy

I think the confusion in "chin" is that does getting rocked mean you have a poor chin? For example, edgar was rocked in Maynard 2 and 3 and Bendo, but he recoevered. Does this show he has a great chin because he didnt go out or a poor chin because he was rocked?
I'll take the former. I do not think all chins can be like Cote, Leben, Hendo, where you hit them with a shovel and then they ask for another

Imo it's two different things. If you get rocked by a punch you shouldn't then you have bad chin now matter if you recover or not. Getting "rocked" is also called getting "chin checked".

What happened to Edgar is an extreme case. I'll use two examples that come to mind...

1. Carwin vs Gonzaga. Gonzaga rocked him, Carwins eyes rolled, but he clinched and recovered. I would say Carwin has a solid chin that has been tested based on that.

2. Lytle vs Hardy. Hardy caught him with a hook in that first round that rocked him but he was able to clinch and recover. The same hook put down Ludwig. So i would use that as an example of why lytle has never been knocked out due to his chin and not defense. Not to mention the fact lytle clearly has no defense.

The thread is really odd becuse there only seems to be one person confused about what "chin" and "defense" means because that same person thinks Wanderlei has a "chin" now and had "defense" at ANY point during his career.

You need to pull out all the cognitive biases and even attempt to obscure semantics when you are trying to justify Fighter #1 as having a solid "chin", while using the EXACT same criteria to say that Fighter #2 has no "chin".

**Beelzebubzy** · 07-15-12, 06:22 PM

I agree, I do not understand why there is a confusion over chin vs striking defense

**Wanna Bet On It?** · 07-15-12, 07:43 PM

There's no confusion about chin versus striking defense if you read the thread and not let people's personal vendettas convince you otherwise.

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-15-12, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

I thought Wanderlei would get KOed far less likely than most vs Rich because the public was shitting on Wand's chin when, in reality, it's mainly his striking defence that has regressed as he's slowing down with age. Between his excellent recovery and Rich's mediocre power, the outcome would be totally different than someone with just a shot chin like Chuck.

1. Anyone who thinks Wanderlei had "striking defence" at any point in his career is a complete fool. Anyone who thinks Wanderleis 4 KNOCKOUT LOSSES are a result of a fading defensive skills and not a result of a poor "chin' is a moron.

2. Anyone who thinks Wanderlei has excellent recovery is a moron, let alone saying someone who was been brutally kayoed 4 times and dropped in pretty much every one of his recent fights by punches that shouldn't have dropped him has no "chin" problems.

So versus Luke, I don't know if between Munoz's lackluster striking defence & weak chin he'll be able to survive on the feet; he does have better resiliency than Jardine these days. Regardless, it's all hypothetical because I imagine that most people don't care to see it.

I see Munoz has no "striking defense" but Wanderlei did? So Munoz has no chin despite not having nearly as bd a track record as Wanderlei? Are you CONFUSED or something?

Is this like the time when you tried to talk about zero sum games and basically said "2+2=5". "Oh I was just one number off".

You came back to this forum and insulted a bunch of people and spewed nothing but drivel. You even tried to DENY MATHEMATICAL FACTS because you are a pathetic, biased, little child who can't admit when he is wrong. In the other thread than ran away like a child from a "cerebral" handicapping convo. is Nunya on your ignore list now too?

You say this place is a wasteland but yet you persist in posting even though you have become somewhat of a laughing stock.

Just go away.

**Wanna Bet On It?** · 07-15-12, 08:22 PM

^^^

Case & point. I'm quite certain this deadbeat will try to mince my words and create an argument where there wasn't any.

It's really sad that the guy spends countless hours writing replies to my posts while I won't give him the time of the day. He's like the ex that never got the hint and still dreams of having my attention even though my life is so much better without this bitch.

Oh, since he's on ignore and I don't communicate with him, has he posted his bets for UFC 149 yet? How about this busy past week with UFC 148, UFC on Fuel 4 & Strikeforce? Can anyone provide them out of curiosity for how he fared?

*CRICKETS*

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-15-12, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

^^^
I'm quite certain this deadbeat will try to mince my words and create an argument where there wasn't any.

Lol, you do good enough job of "mincing" your words in your videos. Lispy.

**DublinMeUp** · 07-15-12, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by DeFactoCrippler

Lol, you do good enough job of "mincing" your words in your videos. Lispy.

**Wanna Bet On It?** · 07-15-12, 08:54 PM

SMOKE & MIRRORS. Post a bet then talk.

You too Dublin. You suck the dick of good cappers since you don't know shit to post any of your own plays. "Oh umm, dear Jesus, umm, can you kindly tell me how you come up with the amount of your bets if you don't mind? Please & thanks Jesus".

BAHAHAHA. You're such a pathetic loser.

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-15-12, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

SMOKE & MIRRORS. Post a bet then talk.

lol, Rich Franklin.

You too Dublin. You suck the dick of good cappers since you don't know shit to post any of your own plays. "Oh umm, dear Jesus, umm, can you kindly tell me how you come up with the amount of your bets if you don't mind? Please & thanks Jesus".

BAHAHAHA. You're such a pathetic loser.

**PunisherIND** · 07-15-12, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

He's like the ex that never got the hint and still dreams of having my attention even though my life is so much better without this bitch.

did anyone in the mma betting community respond to your open letter to bury the hatchet?

how does it feel that lucas fury came out and pretty much said that you're the reason he stopped posting his wager amounts?

Originally posted by Luca Fury

It's annoying enough dealing with them nitpicking dumb, pointless things, but when you lose a bet, they really go at you. Back when I was giving the specific bet amounts and posting bet tickets, they'd go all over Twitter pointing out how I lost a few thousand on a bet and then post the screen grabs on forums and stuff.

Some of you may remember SBR poster 'Wanna Bet UFC' being one of the people who did this (we've since buried the hatchet and are cool now, however). He's not the only one who has done it, though, and it's very annoying when it happens.

If someone goes around laughing and saying "haha Luca lost a bet," it's not that big of a deal. But when thy post a screen grab or the specific amount that I bet and people see I lost, say, 3k on a fight, the people they're showing don't know if that's like my life savings of just a medium sized bet for me. It doesn't tell the whole story and just gives the haters more fuel.

lmao. i like how he tries to take it easy on you by saying there were others, but we all know you were the guy who flamed him on sherdog/twitter/sbr for that 3k wager.

**DublinMeUp** · 07-15-12, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

SMOKE & MIRRORS. Post a bet then talk.

You too Dublin. You suck the dick of good cappers since you don't know shit to post any of your own plays. "Oh umm, dear Jesus, umm, can you kindly tell me how you come up with the amount of your bets if you don't mind? Please & thanks Jesus".

BAHAHAHA. You're such a pathetic loser.

you call people losers yet post youtube videos of yourself wearing a gimp mask. There is no coming back from that. And you say you're 30! that's the saddest thing i've ever heard.

when will you realize that no one likes you or wants to hear your retarded crap anymore? i'm being serious NOBODY LIKES YOU

Edit: obligatory +EV mention, meh might as well say it again +EV

**gabe** · 07-16-12, 03:26 AM

30? damn lol sounds real young

**Vaughany** · 07-16-12, 03:49 AM

Originally posted by gabe

30? damn lol sounds real young

What's the opposite of Benjamin Button's disease?!

**DublinMeUp** · 07-16-12, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by gabe

30? damn lol sounds real young

what 30 year old do you know that estalks people and posts vids of himself in a gimp mask

Edit: oh sorry you mean he sounds real young, yeah i doubt he is 30 but he claimed it probably trying to sound more mature etc

**Wanna Bet On It?** · 07-16-12, 06:13 AM

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers. It's very telling for anyone who can't understand concealing one's identity on a gambling forum. I earn more in a month than you do in a year.

You obviously can't relate to being a successful young professional.

**Vaughany** · 07-16-12, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers. It's very telling for anyone who can't understand concealing one's identity on a gambling forum. I earn more in a month than you do in a year.

You obviously can't relate to being a successful young professional.

**DublinMeUp** · 07-16-12, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers. It's very telling for anyone who can't understand concealing one's identity on a gambling forum. I earn more in a month than you do in a year.

You obviously can't relate to being a successful young professional.

lol this guy has to be a level, seriously.

**scofflaw** · 07-16-12, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers. It's very telling for anyone who can't understand concealing one's identity on a gambling forum. I earn more in a month than you do in a year.

You obviously can't relate to being a successful young professional.

awww hell naw. i'll accept 'degenerate gambler' but that 'deadbeat' was out of line. personally, i understand the mask but I'd sooner just make an audio recording over some still images.

way to rub salt in the wounds after I tailed you on Wand and destroyed my bankroll.

just kidding. i made a bunch of cash on Franklin like almost everyone on the board.

**DublinMeUp** · 07-16-12, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers. It's very telling for anyone who can't understand concealing one's identity on a gambling forum. I earn more in a month than you do in a year.

You obviously can't relate to being a successful young professional.

I'm sure Bob in McDonalds HR places the odd bet now and then.. You're to harsh on yourself, I wouldn't say you're a degenerate, more of a simpleton playing at "handicapping".

"Two Big Macssssss and three large friessssss comin up"

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-16-12, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Wanna Bet On It?

You know why I wear a mask and you don't get it? Because I have a great job that pays me "a six figure contract" and I don't want to jeopardize it with HR by being associated with deadbeat degenerate gamblers.

**DeFactoCrippler** · 07-16-12, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by DublinMeUp

I'm sure Bob in McDonalds HR places the odd bet now and then.. You're to harsh on yourself, I wouldn't say you're a degenerate, more of a simpleton playing at "handicapping".

"Two Big Macssssss and three large friessssss comin up"

**Vaughany** · 07-16-12, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by DeFactoCrippler

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44582[/ATTACH]

In case DFC is still on ignore!

**gabe** · 07-16-12, 12:26 PM

IMO, if anybody is going to recognize your face, they are more than likely to recognize your very distinct voice.

And the background of the vid doesn't necessarily look like the home of a dude making 6figs.

**Vaughany** · 07-16-12, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by gabe

IMO, if anybody is going to recognize your face, they are more than likely to recognize your very distinct voice.

And the background of the vid doesn't necessarily look like the home of a dude making 6figs.

What I dont get is that if you're earning a 6 figure salary and are as good at MMA handicapping as Wannabet claims to be then surely you'd be inclined to bet more than $100 on a fight? And this isnt a dig at him as such, maybe the reason he does only bet $100 is because he has so much money so doesnt need to bet big on things like MMA? But then again, if u are so confident in ur abilities like Mr Wannabet seems to be and as rich as Mr Wannabet claims to be then surely it would do no harm to be betting thousands on ones he's confident in?