UFC on FX 1: Points Contest

[NunyaBidness]

Barry nearly put Kongo away. You think Morecraft could come close to beating Kongo?

Matt Serra knocked out GSP. Do you think he could beat Koscheck?

Ryo Chonan stopped Anderson Silva. What other UFC middleweights do you think he beats?

[gabe]

How does that suggest he doesn't intend on abandoning the stand-up? He's saying that he isn't going to do a Guillard against Lil Heathen and be elusive and try and out point his opponent. He says, he's still "going to bring the pressure" which doesn't mean he necessarily has to get in to a stand-up brawl - the fans can still be entertained by Barry being taken down and GnP or choked out. In fact if anything he is even saying that he's going to take Barry to the ground as mud-hole stomping means kicking somebody in to the ground!

You're saying good ol' fashioned fights start with takedowns? Ok...

[gabe]

Matt Serra knocked out GSP. Do you think he could beat Koscheck?

Ryo Chonan stopped Anderson Silva. What other UFC middleweights do you think he beats?

The only reason Serra can't beat Koscheck is because he is an overweight 145 pounder lol

Pat Barry has the strength and technique to put anybody away.

You can't compare Kongo/Barry vs Serra/GSP -- If Kongo/Barry fought 10 times, it's safe to say Barry would win at least 3 times. If GSP/Serra fought 10 times, Serra would be lucky to win once.

[Vaughany]

The only reason Serra can't beat Koscheck is because he is an overweight 145 pounder lol

Pat Barry has the strength and technique to put anybody away.

You can't compare Kongo/Barry vs Serra/GSP -- If Kongo/Barry fought 10 times, it's safe to say Barry would win at least 3 times. If GSP/Serra fought 10 times, Serra would be lucky to win once.

I'm sure he does, but it's unfortunately not as simple as that

[Vaughany]

You're saying good ol' fashioned fights start with takedowns? Ok...

Well what is a "good ol fashioned fight?" Royce Gracie won the first UFC by getting his fights to the ground and getting the submission - is that old fashioned enough?

[Vaughany]

I think the key point here is that Nunya and I look at value in odds, while you just bet on whoever u think is going to win regardless of the odds. Obviously we know Barry is far superior standing and the fight starts standing so he clearly has a very strong chance of winning. But is it that strong a chance that Barry wins the fight 60 to 62% of the time as the odds suggest...I'm not so sure.

[koscheckbaby]

Word to the wise, once Vaughany is confident in a bet, don't go against it. Morecraft seems to be a complete pussy, as indicated by getting TKO'd by Struve. BUT!!! Barry also lost to Pussy Struve and is giving up a ton of size.

One thought comes to mind: HOW THE **** DOES STEFAN STRUVE WIN FIGHTS!!?!!?!? HE SUCKS!!!

[gabe]

Well what is a "good ol fashioned fight?" Royce Gracie won the first UFC by getting his fights to the ground and getting the submission - is that old fashioned enough?

No, the 1990s are not ol' fashioned.

[gabe]

Word to the wise, once Vaughany is confident in a bet, don't go against it. Morecraft seems to be a complete pussy, as indicated by getting TKO'd by Struve. BUT!!! Barry also lost to Pussy Struve and is giving up a ton of size. One thought comes to mind: HOW THE **** DOES STEFAN STRUVE WIN FIGHTS!!?!!?!? HE SUCKS!!!

We have been on opposite ends of a bet we were each confident on many times and I've been right most of the time. I hope this is one of those times.

[NunyaBidness]

Something I'm sure you won't get.

Just because your bet won doesn't mean you were on the right side. See Prater/Silva for most recent example. See Kongo/Barry for another.

[gabe]

Something I'm sure you won't get. Just because your bet won doesn't mean you were on the right side. See Prater/Silva for most recent example. See Kongo/Barry for another.

I didn't bet on Kongo/Barry and I never argued anyone that Prater would win. I just liked the value in the bet/odds.

But for example, Hetes vs Phan, the bet I won which we argued over was indeed the right bet. As have been others.

[Vaughany]

We have been on opposite ends of a bet we were each confident on many times and I've been right most of the time. I hope this is one of those times.

Really? What examples do you have of this?

[Vaughany]

Word to the wise, once Vaughany is confident in a bet, don't go against it. Morecraft seems to be a complete pussy, as indicated by getting TKO'd by Struve. BUT!!! Barry also lost to Pussy Struve and is giving up a ton of size.

One thought comes to mind: HOW THE **** DOES STEFAN STRUVE WIN FIGHTS!!?!!?!? HE SUCKS!!!

Im far from confident on this one, I haven't bet on Barry or Morecraft. Until we see what happens in the fight the value is with Morecraft at current odds

[koscheckbaby]

Im far from confident on this one, I haven't bet on Barry or Morecraft. Until we see what happens in the fight the value is with Morecraft at current odds

Ah, it sounds like you had confidence Morecraft would have no interest in standing and win on the ground.

Just for me, when you make a prediction, please bold your level of confidence from 1-10. Anything 7 and up, I'll consider

[Vaughany]

Ah, it sounds like you had confidence Morecraft would have no interest in standing and win on the ground.

Just for me, when you make a prediction, please bold your level of confidence from 1-10. Anything 7 and up, I'll consider

ha Yeah Im pretty confident tht Morecraft will have no interest in standing - he's said enough times in interviews. But still doesnt necessarily automatically mean he'll be successful. He's still got to get the takedown and follow up with the finish. Could gas out trying to finish Barry, but then again it's unlikely Barry will take too much punishment - definitely not as much as Struve took. Plus, I'm more interested in the props in this one so until I see them I won't be playin MOrecraft straight up.

[NunyaBidness]

I didn't bet on Kongo/Barry and I never argued anyone that Prater would win. I just liked the value in the bet/odds.

But for example, Hetes vs Phan, the bet I won which we argued over was indeed the right bet. As have been others.

Not surprised you missed the point.

[NunyaBidness]

ha Yeah Im pretty confident tht Morecraft will have no interest in standing - he's said enough times in interviews. But still doesnt necessarily automatically mean he'll be successful. He's still got to get the takedown and follow up with the finish. Could gas out trying to finish Barry, but then again it's unlikely Barry will take too much punishment - definitely not as much as Struve took. Plus, I'm more interested in the props in this one so until I see them I won't be playin MOrecraft straight up.

I think if he gets the takedown a sub is pretty automatic. Getting the takedown is problematic as Morecraft's striking defense is LOLbad and Barry is going to pound him everytime he gets inside.

[koscheckbaby]

ha Yeah Im pretty confident tht Morecraft will have no interest in standing - he's said enough times in interviews. But still doesnt necessarily automatically mean he'll be successful. He's still got to get the takedown and follow up with the finish. Could gas out trying to finish Barry, but then again it's unlikely Barry will take too much punishment - definitely not as much as Struve took. Plus, I'm more interested in the props in this one so until I see them I won't be playin MOrecraft straight up.

Gotcha. Do you give Barry credit for stopping Joey Beltran? Beltran's not exactly a big HW, but he works really hard and keeps going. I was fairly impressed with Barry's improvements from the Cro Cop fight to that one. Struve was so ******* tall, he just was able to snake his way around Barry to pull guard with the choke and transition. He wasn't ever getting a straight takedown. And I know Kongo fight was short, but Kongo did attempt to get inside on him early and Barry was too fast. Kongo and all us backers got lucky in that fight for sure.

But I see your point with Morecraft. He's got more a wrestling base than a Beltran, he's much bigger, and he'll likely have more urgency to get the takedown than even Beltran, who did have it mostly, and Kongo. Plus, getting up from under a guy like Morecraft is much harder at Barry's size than a Joey Beltran, who I believe was successful once.

[gabe]

Really? What examples do you have of this?

Most of the threads over the past few months. Feel free to go through them.

Not surprised you missed the point.

So betting on a fighter that proves to clearly be the best bet is NOT the "right bet," in your opinion.

Whatever, man. Good for you.

[Vaughany]

Gotcha. Do you give Barry credit for stopping Joey Beltran? Beltran's not exactly a big HW, but he works really hard and keeps going. I was fairly impressed with Barry's improvements from the Cro Cop fight to that one. Struve was so ******* tall, he just was able to snake his way around Barry to pull guard with the choke and transition. He wasn't ever getting a straight takedown. And I know Kongo fight was short, but Kongo did attempt to get inside on him early and Barry was too fast. Kongo and all us backers got lucky in that fight for sure.

But I see your point with Morecraft. He's got more a wrestling base than a Beltran, he's much bigger, and he'll likely have more urgency to get the takedown than even Beltran, who did have it mostly, and Kongo. Plus, getting up from under a guy like Morecraft is much harder at Barry's size than a Joey Beltran, who I believe was successful once.

I don't see Kongo try and get inside of him at all. What point is it? I just see him on the outside working left leg kicks and avoiding a takedown attempt from Barry at 20 second mark... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWIk...eature=related

And regarding Beltran, u pretty much summed it up in the second paragraph. Beltran is smaller, not a great wrestler, was happy to stand for a while and was more about dirty boxing and grinding against the cage then persisting with actual proper takedown attempts.

[Vaughany]

Most of the threads over the past few months. Feel free to go through them.

Yeah as this indicates!...

FINAL STANDINGS after UFC 139, UFC 140, UFC 141 & UFC 142:

1) 11-4 Kaladarus +2565.26
2) 11-4 Educ8d Degener8 +2256.51
3) 11-6 Vaughany +1630.4
4) 8-5 bogbat +864.14
5) 7-5 brooks85 +571.79
6) 9-6 Eccocide +484
7) 9-8 JAKEPEAVY21 +334.07
8) 6-7 trevlyn1983 -772.07
9) 4-7 snake11eyes -1459.58
10) 4-8 TheCalculator -1512.01
11) 3-9 THE_LOCKSMITH -1640
12) 4-10 NunyaBidness -1664.33
13) 4-9 The Hoff -1755
14) 3-11 Gabe -2320.5

[koscheckbaby]

I don't see Kongo try and get inside of him at all. What point is it? I just see him on the outside working left leg kicks and avoiding a takedown attempt from Barry at 20 second mark... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWIk...eature=related And regarding Beltran, u pretty much summed it up in the second paragraph. Beltran is smaller, not a great wrestler, was happy to stand for a while and was more about dirty boxing and grinding against the cage then persisting with actual proper takedown attempts.

Man, I totally misremembered(to use a Roger Clemens word). Barry actually shot? That's so weird to me. Don't remember it all.

I guess, maybe what I was thinking was how Kongo looked to initiate the clinch off that failed takedown shot and Barry slid out of there easily. But it wasn't him really trying hard or even initiating the takedown.

I have problems re-watching fights, since they just aren't exciting when they aren't live. But they do come in handy for scouting bets.

[gabe]

Yeah as this indicates!... FINAL STANDINGS after UFC 139, UFC 140, UFC 141 & UFC 142: 1) 11-4 Kaladarus +2565.26 2) 11-4 Educ8d Degener8 +2256.51 3) 11-6 Vaughany +1630.4 4) 8-5 bogbat +864.14 5) 7-5 brooks85 +571.79 6) 9-6 Eccocide +484 7) 9-8 JAKEPEAVY21 +334.07 8) 6-7 trevlyn1983 -772.07 9) 4-7 snake11eyes -1459.58 10) 4-8 TheCalculator -1512.01 11) 3-9 THE_LOCKSMITH -1640 12) 4-10 NunyaBidness -1664.33 13) 4-9 The Hoff -1755 14) 3-11 Gabe -2320.5

You've got a bed memory if you're failing to remember all the times we've been on opposing ends of a fight where my guy has come out on top.

[Vaughany]

You've got a bed memory if you're failing to remember all the times we've been on opposing ends of a fight where my guy has come out on top.

Yeah, I just remember having Gonzaga and u loving Ednaldo Oliveira!

[gabe]

Yeah, I just remember having Gonzaga and u loving Ednaldo Oliveira!

Yeah, some people can't remember past a week ago.

[Vaughany]

Morecraft seems to be trying too hard to be like Barry...retarded as f*ck!... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8XE...&feature=share

We might jus see these two goof balls start joking around and huggin eachother in the octagon

[Vaughany]

Morecraft looks like he's lost weight as well

[gabe]

Morecraft looks like he's lost weight as well

Morecraft? More like Lesscraft! (fake laughter)

[FightFightFight]

Morecraft seems to be trying too hard to be like Barry...retarded as f*ck!... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8XE...&feature=share

We might jus see these two goof balls start joking around and huggin eachother in the octagon

Ten units says if morecraft gets him down and inside the guard of Barry, Barry gets a stiffy.

[NunyaBidness]

Morecraft seems to be trying too hard to be like Barry...retarded as f*ck!... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8XE...&feature=share

We might jus see these two goof balls start joking around and huggin eachother in the octagon

Goood! Barry loses everytime that happens.

[gabe]

That's NunmaBidness, homie.

[more_betterness]

1. Jim Miller -170
2. Duane Ludwig -110
3. Christian Morecraft +145
4. Jared Papazian +280
5. Fabricio Camoes -325
6. Nick Denis -240
7. Charlie Brenneman -300
8. Eric Schafer -155
9. Kamal Shalorus -135
10. Pat Schilling +100


Tiebreaker 1:
What round will Miller/Guillard end? 2

Tiebreaker 2:
What round will Barry/Morecraft end? 2

[The HOFF]

Really? What examples do you have of this?

Vaughany you are clearly forgetting the walk to the cage bets, bets on fights that are over with a line still posted, and the plays that aren't picks but were bet opposite of the posted picks because of a semi-lock confident gut feeling.

[gabe]

Vaughany you are clearly forgetting the walk to the cage bets, bets on fights that are over with a line still posted, and the plays that aren't picks but were bet opposite of the posted picks because of a semi-lock confident gut feeling.

Boy, you are funny, saying something that others have said a hundred times already. lmao about as original as a hundred year old knock-knock joke.

But we were talking about opposing fighters we were backing/arguing about, what would a last minute instinct bet have to do with that? What a fool. If you want to be funny to get people to like you, learn to wait and find something legitimate to poke fun of. This did not make sense to the context of the conversation.

But yeah, a couple names I just remembered that V and I went against each other on- Stipe Miocic, Jake Hecht, John Maguire... there should be many more if you'd search previous threads.

[proposition joe]

Boy, you are funny, saying something that others have said a hundred times already. lmao about as original as a hundred year old knock-knock joke.

But we were talking about opposing fighters we were backing/arguing about, what would a last minute instinct bet have to do with that? What a fool. If you want to be funny to get people to like you, learn to wait and find something legitimate to poke fun of. This did not make sense to the context of the conversation.

But yeah, a couple names I just remembered that V and I went against each other on- Stipe Miocic, Jake Hecht, John Maguire... there should be many more if you'd search previous threads.

nevermind