Jake Shields is -295 over Martin Kampmann

spargament · 10-19-10, 10:58 PM

guarantee this wont go the distance. grab that prop. shields claims he wants to show off his AJA, but thats a sack of shit

Vaughany · 10-20-10, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by spargament

guarantee this wont go the distance. grab that prop. shields claims he wants to show off his AJA, but thats a sack of shit

Cant see either knocking out the other and their BJJ should neutalize eachothers, not sure it's guaranteed it wont go the distance.

southmadejd · 10-20-10, 01:11 PM

I agree with Vaughany

KCJMAC · 10-20-10, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by THE_LOCKSMITH

just re-watched Daley/Shields, and Shields does look lost at times on the feet desperate for a takedown. Kampmann does not have the power of Daley but good on the feet and good submission skills. Shields "lay and pary 101" may still be too strong, and Kampmanns fights vs Condit and P Thiago don't convince me he can stop Shields takedowns

Shields has finished 8 of his last 10 fights. If that's lay and pray, he isn't very good at it. His finish percentage is identical to Anderson Silva's during their most recent ten fights.

Vaughany · 10-20-10, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by KCJMAC

Shields has finished 8 of his last 10 fights. If that's lay and pray, he isn't very good at it. His finish percentage is identical to Anderson Silva's during their most recent ten fights.

I agree, Shields lay n pray label is wrong, however I don't envisage him finishing Kampmann.

brooks85 · 10-20-10, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by KCJMAC

Shields has finished 8 of his last 10 fights. If that's lay and pray, he isn't very good at it. His finish percentage is identical to Anderson Silva's during their most recent ten fights.

that holds water until you look at who he actually finished those 8 times. When he faces good competition he goes to his breadnbutter which is not a bad thing.

KCJMAC · 10-20-10, 02:21 PM

I'm not convinced. He fought the best guys outside of the UFC including:

Robbie Lawlor (19-6) was the EliteXC champ when Shields choked him out in the first round.
Paul Daley (25-9) was in a Number 1 contender match with Koschek in the UFC 18 months after Shields arm-barred him.
Mike Pyle (20-7) just ran over undefeated John Hathaway last Saturday at UFC 120. Pyle has 16 wins by submission. Shields choked him out in the first round.
Nick Thompson (38-13) was on a 12 fight win streak when Shields choked him out in the first round.

brooks85 · 10-20-10, 02:38 PM

Those guys are no where near the best outside the ufc, pyle is legit tho. Lawler and daley are identical one dimensional fighters and Daley just lost his last fight tho judges gave it to him for some reason?

And nick thompson is laughable win streak doesnt mean anything, it is who you beat.

brooks85 · 10-20-10, 02:46 PM

jake shields is also a one dimensional fighter as soon as he gets punched and martin will hit him and jake will take him down.

supershark · 10-20-10, 04:32 PM

When a guy is on a six year streak and hes this motivated for a fight against someone who can be considered one of his avereage opponents, I think you'll see value until -350/400

Vaughany · 10-20-10, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by supershark

When a guy is on a six year streak and hes this motivated for a fight against someone who can be considered one of his avereage opponents, I think you'll see value until -350/400

ha who considers Martin Kampmann an average opponent???

rocky mattioli · 10-20-10, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by KCJMAC

I'm not convinced. He fought the best guys outside of the UFC including:

Robbie Lawlor (19-6) was the EliteXC champ when Shields choked him out in the first round.
Paul Daley (25-9) was in a Number 1 contender match with Koschek in the UFC 18 months after Shields arm-barred him.
Mike Pyle (20-7) just ran over undefeated John Hathaway last Saturday at UFC 120. Pyle has 16 wins by submission. Shields choked him out in the first round.
Nick Thompson (38-13) was on a 12 fight win streak when Shields choked him out in the first round.

i tend to agree...you`d be whistling past the graveyard if you`re underestimating shields` recent wins...or his grappling....

his grappling is on an elite level...i`d say top 5 in mma....without question...

and that`s without a hint of a respectable stand-up game....

his grappling is incredible....kampmann`s(who i happen to love as a fighter) is just very good...`

sundin4prez · 10-20-10, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Vaughany;69***59

ha who considers Martin Kampmann an average opponent???

right here

Eccocide · 10-20-10, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by KCJMAC

I'm not convinced. He fought the best guys outside of the UFC including:

Robbie Lawlor (19-6) was the EliteXC champ when Shields choked him out in the first round.
Paul Daley (25-9) was in a Number 1 contender match with Koschek in the UFC 18 months after Shields arm-barred him.
Mike Pyle (20-7) just ran over undefeated John Hathaway last Saturday at UFC 120. Pyle has 16 wins by submission. Shields choked him out in the first round.
Nick Thompson (38-13) was on a 12 fight win streak when Shields choked him out in the first round.

I think Jake is an amazing grappler and props to him for what he has accomplished. But this list isn't very convincing as an elite list of competition.

-Thompson had one notable win against Alvarez during that streak, a 155lb fighter. He was also studying for his BAR exam at the exact time of his training camp and made no secrets about the fact that it took up a lot of his time heading into that fight.

-Pyle was 3-2 going into that fight with Shields with losses to the likes of Horwich and Rory Markham. This match was before he took up residence at Xtreme Couture and turned his career around.

-Daley has no grappling ability whatsoever as shown in the fight you mentioned vs. Koscheck. Sure he has power, but get your arms around him and hes as good as done.

-Lawler has always struggled against any grappler he has faced. Diaz, Tanner, Miller and Sobral are his other losses - all guys who are much stronger grapplers than him. Not to mention he dove head first into a guillotine in the Shields fight.

Like I said, I think Shields is amazing at what he is good at, grappling. I actually think he has much better wins against Condit and Okami rather than the list that was rattle off. He could easily control this fight once he gets inside and gets this fight to the ground for 3 rounds. I just don't buy into the fact that he has faced elite level competition over the past 3 years - many of these bouts were tailormade for his style. He can do a lot for himself with a impressive win vs. Kampmann who is the toughest competition he has faced since 2006.

rocky mattioli · 10-20-10, 06:51 PM

kc and ecco neglected to mention mayhem miller....who apparently,is underrated because of his shenanigans...

i don`t underrate him...

he is no joke.....matter of fact,although maybe not as well rounded,my money would be on miller over kampmann in a submission grappling match...

not saying that kampmann doesn`t have a chance vs shields......he is live vs ANYONE at 170/185....

just that shields has been on a dominating,incredible run...and success breeds success...

brooks85 · 10-20-10, 07:32 PM

mayhem is definitely quality comp, the bell saved shields from getting submitted by him in the third