SBR-Digital Gaming Solutions (DGS) Software Certified For Fairness

robmpink · 01-21-12, 05:27 PM

Five Dimes, to my knowledge, is the only place that actually has the correct odds and used this software. I've posed this question countless times. Wouldn't fair odds equate to fair play? When this source deemed it fair did DGS pull the old switcheroo and put the fair odds up even though 1% of actual books that use it pay fair odds?

Megatron81lions · 01-21-12, 07:18 PM

It's up to the book man. As long as the game is fair then it's on the player to play at the posted odds

PD77 · 01-21-12, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by robmpink

Five Dimes, to my knowledge, is the only place that actually has the correct odds and used this software. I've posed this question countless times. Wouldn't fair odds equate to fair play? When this source deemed it fair did DGS pull the old switcheroo and put the fair odds up even though 1% of actual books that use it pay fair odds?

I have always considered DGS to be solid. Never had an issue with them that I can recall. The problem is they shouldn't allow the casinos this much flexibility with the payout odds to ensure their own credibility. As you can see from the Wizard of Odds website the payout is used and accepted in places. http://wizardofodds.com/games/let-it-ride/
Let It Ride Payoff Table
Hand Pay Table 1 Pay Table 2 Pay Table 3 Pay Table 4 Pay Table 5 Pay Table 6
Royal Flush 1000 to 1 200 to 1 500 to 1 250 to 1 500 to 1 999 to 1
Straight Flush 200 to 1 100 to 1 100 to 1 50 to 1 200 to 1 199 to 1
Four of a kind 50 to 1 40 to 1 25 to 1 25 to 1 50 to 1 49 to 1
Full House 11 to 1 15 to 1 15 to 1 12 to 1 11 to 1 11 to 1

If I go to a DGS casino and see these odds for let it ride I assume the Sportsbook has the return set to the absolute lowest percentage and I dont play there.

Also, 5Dimes has a version of Let it Ride that pays 2000-1 for a Royal, 1800 times more than most of the other books.
Imagine you hit a Royal with a $10 bet ($30 total)
Pays $60K at 5dimes (super Bonus edition)
Pays $30K at SBR and most brick and mortars.
Pays $6K at most of the casinos using DGS software.

I've bitched and moaned to most of these places and there is no way in hell they even consider changing it. Maybe some of these threads will draw some attention to it. Also as much as it pains me to say this, if you are going to play DGS software there is really no other place to play other than 5Dimes.

taxer · 01-21-12, 09:21 PM

Basically a casino does not mean it is rigged just because they wish to pay less on a jackpot or flush.

This is up to the house and it is the players responasability to ask these things before crying wolf.

If the RNG , Random Number Generator is in full effect and inline with their odds and the house wishes to pay less on a flush then the casino is not rigged.

MonkeyF0cker · 01-21-12, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by robmpink

Um ok SBR can you clarify if it is "The A+ book" Bookmaker along with scores of other books using this software how can this body certify it being fair when the default odds they have for Let it Ride pay 200-1 for a royal flush when Vegas and almost every other land based casino pays 1000-1?

Either "The A+ book" Bookmaker along with everyone else is ripping people off big time or the "certified" DGS software is. It is my understanding DGS has it set to 200-1 and it is up to the book to change it.

I really wish the expert or someone who is understanding of the matter chime in. A + books shouldn't have to be shady.

"Fair" has nothing to do with payout odds. It has to do with the RNG algorithm. It means that the RNG exhibits statistical randomness, unpredictability, and non-repeatability. In other words, the cards that you are dealt are randomly shuffled and the probability of receiving a specific hand are aligned with the actual mathematical odds of a randomly shuffled deck.

If you're playing a game that has horrible negative expectation, that's your problem. You have the choice to play it or not.

5mike5 · 01-21-12, 09:30 PM

and anybody that plays online casinos and thinks they have a fair shake needs to schedule a brain scan...ASAP

MonkeyF0cker · 01-21-12, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by 5mike5

and anybody that plays online casinos and thinks they have a fair shake needs to schedule a brain scan...ASAP

Never fails.

PD77 · 01-21-12, 10:42 PM

Here is the the Million Dollar question. What is the confirmed return to player percentage of DGS from the Jacobson audit? Or better yet, what are the ranges of the payout percentages? It is obvious they are not the same at all dgs casinos. It is useless to say a casino software provider has been "successfully audited" without giving these results.

Here are my predictions on RTP
Lowest 80%
Medium 92% (SBR Casino)
High 98%

robmpink · 01-22-12, 09:33 AM

Well I appreciate most of the responses in here, Pd77, Monkey and Taxer. Like PD77, I have played DGS for years and am very familiar. About 5 years ago the odds for let it ride were normal everywhere it was used.

I'm not saying the RNG is biased as I feel DGS is one of the best. When I read the report of fairness I associate the fair odds issue with this game and for years have wanted to know if it is the book itself or DGS pushing the books to offer these piss poor odds. I don't know if this is the same for all books is it the book just pays for all of the winnings from the casino or does DGS share some of the burden as well? If so, you could see why DGS may push their default low odds on this game.

I have played this game for about 10 years on DGS and been through every thing. Winning hands of 18k, 15k 3 times and about 100 between 2k and 12k. I have been through the valleys of death as well playing.

I addressed many times with casinos managers and received responses to the casino is just an add on to the main project, the book to the most telling, "I'm aware of the low odds and do you think I want to be hit for 1000-1"?

So in closing my concern is about fair odds, not RNG. If there are industry leading sportsbooks that pay 200-1 it would be really swell if SBR got an official statement why. It just seems like a practice upper tier books don't need to do.

Megatron81lions · 01-22-12, 09:36 AM

Just Stfu. In closing stay out of the casino,you sound like a whiny girl.

taxer · 01-22-12, 09:38 AM

Rob , sounds to me like you are just unlucky.

See the common mistake is that players try and judge the casino odds based on their own gameplay which is incorrect.

You have to think of all the other players that are playing or have been playing in that casino as well , that affects the RNG more than anything.

PD77 · 01-22-12, 11:29 AM

The funny thing here is SBR knows exactly what the answers are. They know why their casino odds are set differently than 99% of their sponsors. They also know what the RTP is for their casino.

robmpink · 01-22-12, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by taxer

Rob , sounds to me like you are just unlucky.

See the common mistake is that players try and judge the casino odds based on their own gameplay which is incorrect.

You have to think of all the other players that are playing or have been playing in that casino as well , that affects the RNG more than anything.

Taxer, I don't think I am unlucky regarding this issue and hitting big hands in the past. All of my huge hits have been paid out at the true odds thankfully. I'm just want to know why the top notch books and mostly all others want to offer the lowest odds, except 5 Dimes. I know they are there to make money but 200-1 is just criminal.

taxer · 01-22-12, 11:33 AM

Rob it is easy just a way of covering themselves a bit , specially if they are giving you large bonuses.

What alot of online casinos do is give you a nice big bonus with a rollover and a 10 x max cashout of your deposit , this way you flush out the big hands from the casino and control your exposure.

robmpink · 01-22-12, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by PD77

The funny thing here is SBR knows exactly what the answers are. They know why their casino odds are set differently than 99% of their sponsors. They also know what the RTP is for their casino.

PD, when the SBR casino first came online they had the odds at 200-1. I contacted Lou and he informed me those were the "default" odds it had set up. They adjusted it to the fair odds, which was honest on SBR's part. This is why I think DGS provides the game at the odds are 200-1. Mostly they don't tell the books or whoever this is ass rape odds. So books may have it and not even know the odds are incorrect. As you have tried as well as I, when notifying the book they really don't seem to care on fixing it to 1000-1.

robmpink · 01-22-12, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Megatron81lions

Just Stfu. In closing stay out of the casino,you sound like a whiny girl.

Kid, maybe this is over your head. FYI, I don't care if I sound like a whiny fat girl with 3 cun*s.

Megatron81lions · 01-22-12, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by robmpink

Kid, maybe this is over your head. FYI, I don't care if I sound like a whiny fat girl with 3 cun*s.

Kid? You start a thread that basically states "Im a degen who loses all my money in the casino, they are cheating by not following normal odds." I bet if you ever won anything you wouldn't have started this thread. Just because you act like your trying to have an intelligent conversation doesnt mean we all don't know your a broke casino degen fuk.

PD77 · 01-22-12, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Megatron81lions

Kid? You start a thread that basically states "Im a degen who loses all my money in the casino, they are cheating by not following normal odds." I bet if you ever won anything you wouldn't have started this thread. Just because you act like your trying to have an intelligent conversation doesnt mean we all don't know your a broke casino degen fuk.

Megatron81lions, I ignored your first post because I thought it was to get your 8 points and you would be moving along. I was wrong, you are the usual troll with nothing relevant to add to the discussion. Either reread the thread and post something meaningful or you STFU. Go build your forum cred in the Players Talk forum because you have none here.

Megatron81lions · 01-22-12, 12:09 PM

Forum cred? Wow we see what your life is about

Kaabee · 01-22-12, 12:22 PM

the house edge is not affected as drastically as you might think. standard is 3.5%. 150 for straight flush and 200 for royal has a 4% edge.

robmpink · 01-22-12, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Megatron81lions

Kid? You start a thread that basically states "Im a degen who loses all my money in the casino, they are cheating by not following normal odds." I bet if you ever won anything you wouldn't have started this thread. Just because you act like your trying to have an intelligent conversation doesnt mean we all don't know your a broke casino degen fuk.

Kid, don't know how you gathered that from what I wrote. Possibly you are dyslexic and thought......
Nevermind, you need to explain myself here to you.

Megatron81lions · 01-22-12, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by robmpink

Kid, don't know how you gathered that from what I wrote. Possibly you are dyslexic and thought......
Nevermind, you need to explain myself here to you.

Very well said

robmpink · 01-22-12, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Kaabee

the house edge is not affected as drastically as you might think. standard is 3.5%. 150 for straight flush and 200 for royal has a 4% edge.

Yes, Justin explained this to me about 2 years ago. I know these is what it averages to in the long run, but if you get that royal it burns your brain.

True story. A book I played at was one of the last few to still have the 1000-1 odds. I checked almost everytime I played because more and more books were making the switch. It was early Dec 2009. I was playing $6 in each circle and nailed a royal. This is the same book where I hit 3 royals in a year for 15k each. I was so pumped to watch the chips cascade down making that chip stacking noise. This time it was cut short. I look and was only paid 200-1. I felt like shit and looked at the odds quickly. In the matter of a day the odds changed. I posed my case to the book and after a week I was given the option to take a 500-1 payoff or the 1000-1 payoff with a rollover. I opted for the rollover and prob collected 16k after the rollover plus an insane amount of the freeplays for the casino action.

I don't play at the book anymore, but haven't hit one after that. If I play I only play for $2, $3 or $4 at the most at a few books. I'm not bitter or a loser. I actually have some of my biggest payouts which have been jumpstarted by a few 2k hands. I'm sure there are others that just want some answers regarding the 200-1 odds and if DGS is gearing the books towards it.

I appreciate the good dialogue from most.