Rigged Casino Software Found

**boymimbo** · 11-02-11, 01:30 PM

Correct. Four casinos (according to casino city) are using this software. The WOO received a response from 5 Dimes stating that they no longer use this platform.

Heritage Sports
Legends Sports
World Wide Wagering
Loose Lines

**the_orangekat** · 11-02-11, 01:33 PM

One who plays online casinos is a fool, anyways.

**BrianLaverty** · 11-02-11, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by boymimbo

[*]Heritage Sports
[/LIST]

This would make alot of sense to me.

I play Blackjack and I have had winning sessions probably 5 times out of like 25 visits to the casino.

**boymimbo** · 11-02-11, 02:06 PM

If you look at the link, the software is BADLY and OBVIOUSLY rigged. The fact that you had winning sessions 5 times out of 25 times may not be that out of the ordinary.

**PAULYPOKER** · 11-02-11, 02:08 PM

this was obvious without proof............................

**C.S.** · 11-02-11, 02:18 PM

one would have to ask, what would motivate blr to write cheating software? they're not big enough to force a profit share, so blr did it because they want their customers to win, and thus continue their relationship with blr. there's a lot of questions to be asked here, though I doubt they'll get asked.
just so I got this straight, a rouge software developer that these sportsbooks use for casino software, decided to write a game that cheated the players because he was an evil guy.

**boymimbo** · 11-02-11, 02:37 PM

My understanding is that the sportsbook contract out their casino to BLR Tech and that they get a share of revenue. 5 Dimes just removed their cash back casino (operated by BLR Tech). If BLR Tech gets a share of revenue from their casino operations, then certainly it would be in their best interests to go rogue, figuring that no one would do such a rigorous statistical analysis (as was provided by the OP at Wizard of Vegas and the Wizard of odds himself).

Since BLR only operates at Sportsbooks, my thought is that the Sportsbook was providing the casino as a convenience to its members. Sportsbooks' business model is to earn its revenue at the Sportsbook and not its casino operations. Therefore, it would make sense to outsource its casino business and to share the revenue. In a revenue sharing arrangement, the casino would not have knowledge of BLR's source code. They would see the revenue and might just figure the players were unlucky.

From 5 dimes via the Wizard of Odds:

"With the present accusations and facts against the BLR casino platform, the 5Dimes group has chosen to remove this casino platform from our multiple casino lineup.
BLR was given ample time to address the concerns of forum members as well as our direct questions. No acceptable answers were given, so the casino platform was removed.
A management decision was made to eliminate that casino and focus on expanded offerings with the other casino platforms."

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 02:41 PM

Very interesting . 5dimes removed another one of their casinos a while back for similar problems that were brought to their attention. I think it was AST Technologies.

**Mikail** · 11-02-11, 02:44 PM

The proof we knew all along.

**C.S.** · 11-02-11, 03:01 PM

My understanding is that the sportsbook contract out their casino to BLR Tech and that they get a share of revenue.

Well, that's where your opinion and mine differ. In my experience if you want to go with a RTG type casino, sure there is profit sharing involved. However, most CR sportsbooks use basic software, the trade off for not going high end is a monthly payment, instead of giving away a piece of your action. I don't know anything about BLR's casino software, but if it was anything like their sportsbook software you couldn't pay me to use it.
It is clear you have no idea of how a sportsbook operates. So unless you have the contract in front of you let's both stop making assumptions.

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by C.S.

Well, that's where your opinion and mine differ. In my experience if you want to go with a RTG type casino, sure there is profit sharing involved. However, most CR sportsbooks use basic software, the trade off for not going high end is a monthly payment, instead of giving away a piece of your action. I don't know anything about BLR's casino software, but if it was anything like their sportsbook software you couldn't pay me to use it.
It is clear you have no idea of how a sportsbook operates. So unless you have the contract in front of you let's both stop making assumptions.

BLR issued the rebate amount to 5dimes so no doubt they were in on the cut. The homegrown crap casino software that comes out of Costa Rica is where the problem is anyway. RTG , Microgaming are solid. I am not saying they haven't had problems but they would never go unnoticed this long bc so many people use it. These third rate providers can pull this off for a lot longer.

**pokerplayer22** · 11-02-11, 03:30 PM

So if its been proven that this casino software is rigged (which we all knew all along), what recourse do players have who have lost hundreds and thousands playing with this software that is now proven was rigged all along? I dont play in these digital casinos myself but you see so many threads about people losing their whole balances playing what is now proven to be rigged software...meaning that they were sort of being free-rolled by the book that offered these games

**mighty maron** · 11-02-11, 03:43 PM

The videos of the "proof"

http://forum.sbrforum.com/casino/117...ino-sucks.html I got insta raped in this very casino software at craps that they no longer use.

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by pokerplayer22

So if its been proven that this casino software is rigged (which we all knew all along), what recourse do players have who have lost hundreds and thousands playing with this software that is now proven was rigged all along? I dont play in these digital casinos myself but you see so many threads about people losing their whole balances playing what is now proven to be rigged software...meaning that they were sort of being free-rolled by the book that offered these games

Anyone who incurred losses with this software should have the amount refunded. It is intersting how this will play out.

**mighty maron** · 11-02-11, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by PD77

Anyone who incurred losses with this software should have the amount refunded. It is intersting how this will play out.

Impossible 843 of 3200 wins discussed in Craps/Gambling at Wizard of Vegas - Page 5

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/7100-impossible-843-of-3200-wins/14/

Quote: FleaStiffWe would never let a bricks casino survive something like this and so we should never let an online casino survive it either. I realize that...

I think the owner of the site is wizard of the forum. anyways poster named wizard indicated they did refund his losses on this game

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 05:59 PM

If craps was that blantently crooked I am sure everything else was too.

**robmpink** · 11-02-11, 06:04 PM

I'm confused. I thought heritage uses DGS software. Not I thought, I know it is DGS.

**boymimbo** · 11-02-11, 06:37 PM

The Wizard quotes that the source for the five sites was from Casino City. We know that Five Dimes was using it for Cash Back (the Wizard of Odds, Mike Shackleford) got a refund from there and was since shut down (today). The OP at WoV was getting the non-randomness at World Wide Wagering. Legends also uses the software absolutely though I can't say anything about its RNG. I could not confirm that Heritage uses the software and it appears that Loose Lines uses the same software that the Bonus casino at 5 Dimes is using (which is not BLR).

The fact that the bias was found at two casinos indicates that the provider is likely causing the bias, not the book itself.

**robmpink** · 11-02-11, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by boymimbo

The Wizard quotes that the source for the five sites was from Casino City. We know that Five Dimes was using it for Cash Back (the Wizard of Odds, Mike Shackleford) got a refund from there and was since shut down (today). The OP at WoV was getting the non-randomness at World Wide Wagering. Legends also uses the software absolutely though I can't say anything about its RNG. I could not confirm that Heritage uses the software and it appears that Loose Lines uses the same software that the Bonus casino at 5 Dimes is using (which is not BLR).

The fact that the bias was found at two casinos indicates that the provider is likely causing the bias, not the book itself.

Ok, work with me here. The software that Legends uses visually doesn't look like the software Heritage uses.

The fact 5 dimes gave a bonus for one casino and not other, which is DGS software, speaks volumes. Wonder why?

**thewolf** · 11-02-11, 06:59 PM

anyone playing the casino on any website deserves to lose their money. I only play if Im drunk and bored after a big win for a couple hunj. I win 1 out of 20 times. ALL CASINOS online are rigged.

**5mike5** · 11-02-11, 07:00 PM

every online casino is rigged....would have to be a total fool to play these games and think they arent rigged...thats just common sense

**robmpink** · 11-02-11, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by thewolf

anyone playing the casino on any website deserves to lose their money. I only play if Im drunk and bored after a big win for a couple hunj. I win 1 out of 20 times. ALL CASINOS online are rigged.

Overall I agree with you and wish I never played in them. I can tell you I've hit single hands for 18k, 15k on three different occasions and 9k. I've hit a ton in the 4k-7k range.

**Legions36** · 11-02-11, 07:46 PM

Whoever gambles online in the casino is a fool.

**xstud** · 11-02-11, 07:53 PM

SBR should remove all advertisers banners/links/etc immediately until this casino software is shut down! Also players should be given some type of compensation if they lost money in the casinos over the years with the software affected.

**SBR Lou** · 11-02-11, 07:58 PM

Heritage management tells us they do not use BLR, and that they tried to contact Casino City to remove the inaccurate information over a year ago.

**evo34** · 11-02-11, 08:00 PM

So people are believing that 5 Dimes had no idea the software was giving them a huge unfair edge? They would look at the hold rate for craps every week, and say, "well, I guess we got lucky again."? I don't think so..

**xstud** · 11-02-11, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by SBR Lou

Heritage management tells us they do not use BLR, and that they tried to contact Casino City to remove the inaccurate information over a year ago.

What about Legends? They have used this software for as long as I can remember. I have probably lost 500+ on this shit. I am not expecting the money back.. but if SBR sits and collects advertising money from books that use this crooked shit and refuse to do anything about it.. the forum sinks to yet another low.

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 08:20 PM

I emailed legends and received te usual scripted type reply. Their management needs to be contacted about this.
Greetings from Legends!

Thank you for contacting us, the Wizard of Odds is not a company that regulates casino softwares, Our casino is certified by a random number generator and is responsability of each customers to make bets, unfortunately we will not be able to conpensate your bets since they were place and played by you, we do offer a 5% casino rebate based on net losses per week.

If you have any other question or doubt please do not hesitate and contact us.

Best Regards,

Jason Devore
Customer Service Department

**robmpink** · 11-02-11, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by PD77

I emailed legends and received te usual scripted type reply. Their management needs to be contacted about this.
Greetings from Legends!

Thank you for contacting us, the Wizard of Odds is not a company that regulates casino softwares, Our casino is certified by a random number generator and is responsability of each customers to make bets, unfortunately we will not be able to conpensate your bets since they were place and played by you, we do offer a 5% casino rebate based on net losses per week.

If you have any other question or doubt please do not hesitate and contact us.

Best Regards,

Jason Devore
Customer Service Department

lol

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 09:22 PM

I did get in touch with someone at Legends and was told they are aware of what is going on. They also said that their software is not the same as 5Dimes. I've played both and they sure seemed the same to me. Maybe the Wizard can audit theirs?

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 09:40 PM

Here is what legends is saying.
Greetings from Legends!

Us and 5 dimes use a complete different platform. Our Casino engine is powered by certified hardware random number generators (RNGs) used by the most respected gaming operations around the world which will prevent issues like the mentioned on the post from happening. Please refer them to this link if they come on the live chat or email: http://www.idquantique.com/true-rand...-overview.html

Best Regards,

Jason Devore

I have played both, the games and graphics are the exact same. Are they telling me they rewrote the software code to use a different RNG? Not sure but how am I supposed to know this? It sure looks and plays the same to me.

**SBR Lou** · 11-02-11, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by xstud

What about Legends? They have used this software for as long as I can remember. I have probably lost 500+ on this shit. I am not expecting the money back.. but if SBR sits and collects advertising money from books that use this crooked shit and refuse to do anything about it.. the forum sinks to yet another low.

You may have missed this post from Bill:

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

Legends does use BLR software user interface but does not use the BLR RNG. They used hardware random number generators, similar to what the largest poker sites use. If wizard of odds was to check that version, they should find it is truly random.

**boymimbo** · 11-02-11, 10:32 PM

WorldWide Sports was found to have the biased results, as was 5 Dimes' "Cash Back" casino (which 5 dimes took down today and has completely disappeared) with the same very improbable results. I do not think Legends has been tested explicitly but given the fact that the platform by BLR Tech is the same and two casinos got the same improbable results, I doubt that Legends is immune.

Of course a RNG is used to generate a result, but the results from the RNG is heavily biased to either discard or restate the final result in the game at question.

If you're not convinced there is a much longer blog with the statistical analysis over at Wizard of Vegas and a more concise entry over at Wizard of Odds.

If anyone wants to try a few hundred rolls on the Pass or Don't pass in Craps, give it a shot and let's see the results.

**PD77** · 11-02-11, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by SBR Lou

You may have missed this post from Bill:

Thanks, I did miss this post. But I am still not satisfied. Legends is going to have to drop this software provider if they want anyone in the casino. Even with a hardware RNG if the software is coded for you to lose , you will lose. I had them block the casino a long time ago because something just didnt seem right. I am pretty certain I had that feeling for a reason.