Neteller. Mysterious payment system.

[PVO]

I did read a lot of bad things about Neteller, but they are world famous so i thought the stories are about people that use multiaccounts or really do something suspicious. And there was information about Neteller is improving.

And now i am shocked and see that this world famous payment system is really very mysterious and their reasons are unknowable.

Sure i passed all the verification before i start to use Neteller. And this are my original documents, no tricks here.
After about one and half month of our cooperation Neteller did disable my account. I don't know why.
I myself absolutely have no idea why. I did send my money to bookmakers and withdraw back winnings.

Since i realized account is disabled i made a lot of phone calls and e-mails trying to get the reason.
I e-mail vip@neteller.com (yes, i've got vip status very fast), personally my investigator, complaints@neteller.com and investigations@neteller.com. And noone gave me the reason - why account is disabled.

Last Friday account was permanently closed and still without any explanation. With money.

No notification, no explanation. I am really shocked.
I saw this style only by russian mafia bookmakers that well-known in my country as thieves.
But here is world-known payment system!

Why they are not closed yet for fraud activity?

[Santo]

Neteller are FSA regulated. File a complaint, then if they ignore that report it to the Ombudsman.

Filing a formal complaint
If our customer service team doesn’t address your concern to your satisfaction and you wish to initiate a formal complaint, you can contact the NETELLER Complaint Officer by email at complaints@neteller.com or by mail at the address below. We will acknowledge your complaint right away.

NETELLER Complaints Team
Mount Pleasant House
2 Mount Pleasant
Cambridge
CB3 0RN, United Kingdom

We are normally able to solve most concerns quickly; however, if we believe your complaint is more complex in nature then we will keep you updated on the process in writing.

If, at the conclusion of our internal complaints procedure, you still remain unhappy with the outcome then you can make an appeal to the UK’s Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). We will include instructions on the procedure. Alternatively, you can obtain a copy by contacting them directly. Please note that the FOS will only investigate your complaint after we have attempted to resolve your complaint through our internal resolution process.

The UK Financial Ombudsman Service can be contacted as follows:

Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London
E14 9SR

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk
+011 44 0845 080 1800
or
+011 44 0300 123 9 123

(Added emphasis is mine).

[PVO]

I filled the internal formal complaint already (complaints@neteller.com).
They can do nothing if there is investigation department business.

So www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk and complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk ?

[Santo]

Did you try again now the investigation is supposedly over? But yes if the investigation is over and the complaints department won't do it then contact the Ombudsman.

[PVO]

The thing that is most difficult to understand for me (and maybe to anybody with the alive brain) - I have absolutely no consistent information about what is going on.

So i can't confidently say - is investigation over or no.

For all the time i contacted 3 departments and below are the answers chronologically:

After account was disabled

VIP Support - answer like: investigation is going on, you have to contact investigation department

Investigator - e-mailed me brief sentence "questionable transaction activity" (nothing more!!! without questions about "questionable activity" i think this is come-off, hope this is proper english word)

Investigator again and Complaints department with internal formal complaint - with offer to ask questions about my activity - no questions from investigator (and no more information), and information from complaints department - i have to contact investigators

Neteller Twitter - advised to request callback, i did request - nobody did callback
VIP Support - i made a call myself, same answers as above

after account is closed

VIP Support - investigation is going on (still !?), you have to contact investigation department

Investigations@neteller.com - no answers.

Neteller has my phone number - so in case if any "questionable transaction activity" there was no problem to call me. Nobody still has exact information - who made those questionable operations - me or not me. And what operations there are. There was no contact between investigator and me. 2 weeks - is it not enough to do at least something real ?

-----------------------------------------------------------

My logic is very simple.

If any officer of payment system make decision about disabling or closing account - he/she knows reason right at this moment for sure.
And as this officer knows reason at this moment - he/she can immediately inform the customer about this reason.
Any different style of doing business is suspicious.
Even in the case of security reasons - always there is information that can be given to the customer.

The only case i admit no contacts with the customer - if the payment system classified him as a fraud. (And even in this case this style is doubtful).
And this is exactly what i don't want to see in my situation. And this is what about is this situation for me.
Because i had long-term plans to cooperate with Neteller and did nothing tricky - and i am about to be sure there is a mistake of Neteller's officer who is trying to save his ass now giving no information (but the system covers him - noone from Neteller (vip phone support, complaints dep, twitter support) classified this situation as wrong - so we can say - this is Neteller style).
If there was "questionable activity" - there must be questions for sure before making decision.

[JoeVig]

Not sure about this complaint, but no doubt Neteller has gone down hill since USA action. No live chat and emails get answered if at all in days not hours. The answers are often cryptic like an email from a bodog CS.

[Ruifgalmeida]

Not sure about this complaint, but no doubt Neteller has gone down hill since USA action. No live chat and emails get answered if at all in days not hours. The answers are often cryptic like an email from a bodog CS.

my problems got always solved quick by email or live chat. I did had a problem ages ago seding documents to them , had to send 4 or 5 times my documents every 2years but they dont ask them anymore.
Hope things get resolved G.Luck

[lukahh]

Neteller is going through some refurbishing, adding sweeteners if you deposit via them.
i didnt take part in that, but nevertheless it is all legit. why would they close your account without valid reason if you bring all that commission on deposits? they must believe there is something wrong with you.

[PVO]

Sure someone inside Neteller believes that something is wrong with me, who argues?
And sure i do not believe something is wrong with me.

So what two sides have to do in this situation? To talk for the first!
If something is wrong with me - why not to send me notification e-mail with information what exactly is wrong?
(not "questionable"! what is precisely wrong? if something questionable - why not to ask questions immediately?)

[davidchong]

Probably your pattern activity is liked to laundering.......
So they prefers to close and send the info to FSA.

[PVO]

again first of all is it impossible to inform me about this assumption?
is it illegal or difficult to inform me? or what?

the second - maybe you can give me the link to read - what is "laundering" ?
i mean link to read the laws about this, not any opinions.
otherwise i will maybe lose much time to find out in details what is it before i will be able to reply in details.

i doubt very much i understand what is laundering or i understand how it can be linked to my situation because - if i base on what i know - i don't see any way to launder anything with betting and moving money with banks as i did - for sure if i win i will pay taxes. i can't hide anything (and by the way taxes are not too high in Russia).

and last idea - why they need to disable and more - to close account in the situation of assumption instead of just freezing and investigating together with me, asking for me if they need ?

it's not consistent and not reasonable again

[davidchong]

in the forum you can search/find a list of possible ways that the book or financial institution consider a laudering activity.

a link site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering
you can find the definition of that...

Freeze: is under investigation.
Disable: when they are sure that there is a illegal activity; giving info to you investigation can be turned down by authorities----

[PVO]

Did read the definition. Sure it was not the money laundering.

Definition is
Money laundering, at its simplest, is the act of making money that comes from Source A look like it comes from Source B.

There was absolutely no situation when i showed my money as coming from any source at all.

For this story i was never in the situation when i was obliged to show sources where from my money did came. Or anyone was interested in this and i gave any answers (any! not "any wrong", simply - "any"!).
So impossible even to make assumption about "laundering" here.

huh, good

but still questions to Neteller

p.s. "for this story" means in life sure i pay taxes, fill my tax declaration so i was in situations when i was obliged to show sources of income. but it has no relation with Neteller.
i used Neteller as was said above for only one and half month - i simply was in no situation when it was important for anyone.

[PVO]

I did read more about this shit.

Now i think that your assumption, davidchong, can be true.

I mean it was not laundering but they could think this is laundering.
Because the person who made decision does not understand the nature of betting (and does not understand the nature of laundering also ).

I still need to find laws about this - to understand - was Neteller obliged to close my account by any written rules or laws (i doubt very much they were, because there must be rules that make impossible moving money at all) otherwise i have to punish Neteller back for incredible stupidity.
Ombudsman and the court if needed will help me with this i hope.

Anyway, i still don't understand - why not to contact customer. Ok maybe i am idiot.
We will know the answer in about half of the year.

[Monte]

This has bullshit written all over it, Neteller closes accounts temporaly when something is not 100% clear for security reasons.
When you confirm with them that nothing is wrong, it will be reopened asap.
So what is your true story? Neteller doesn't want to steal your $$$, so stop talking shit.

[PVO]

My true story is above.

And, Monte, do you not agree that payment system should inform the customer about reason when they close account?
Can you make a single example when it is right not to inform the customer about reason ?

I admit that i may be wrong, but i want to understand where.

[PVO]

... Neteller closes accounts temporaly when something is not 100% clear for security reasons.
When you confirm with them that nothing is wrong, it will be reopened asap.

This is not my case for sure. Neteller did not ask any confirmation from me for 2 weeks.
Can't believe they just forget to ask what they need - i always reminded them about myself.
You mixed up my story with something from your past.

My questions to you still actual.

[PVO]

Ombudsmen give any financial company 8 weeks for internal investigation. It's not serious, it's very serious.

8 weeks for the situation that can be resolved in 1 day. Wonderland.
Today i did send e-mails to complaints@neteller.com (not for the first time) and the copy to complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Let them work as they can, but now i have to search more strong and fast way to defend the truth. 8 weeks for this simple situation is not reasonable. I think everything can be clarified in 1 day here. Even in the case of (false) laundering assumption.

[Hareeba!]

My understanding is that when criminal activity is suspected the case is referred to the appropriate authority and the bookie (or as in this case the e-wallet) isn't permitted to divulge anything to the account holder.

[PVO]

Hareeba, you are on ignore-list, and i am not going to change my mind in near future.
So if you ask something from me - i can't read this and can't answer, i only see that you did post something (hope you will understand this my answer from the first attempt ).
Fortunately i am not payment system that took your money without reason so i am not obliged to answer you.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba, you are on ignore-list, and i am not going to change my mind in near future.
So if you ask something from me - i can't read this and can't answer, i only see that you did post something (hope you will understand this my answer from the first attempt ).
Fortunately i am not payment system that took your money without reason so i am not obliged to answer you.

yeah right, shoot the messenger

[tommygun]

why is hareeba on your ignore list?

[PVO]

why is hareeba on your ignore list?

it's a long story
if you are really interested - make topic about him

[PVO]

Well. A lot to read in a short time.

Can anyone give brief information - what real power ombudsman has?
Why financial organization will have motivation to pay attention to ombudsman?

I really don't understand the mechanism of complaints yet. A customer is in position of victim-moaner with his complaint...
When really as the truth is on my side i should be the hunter in this situation.
Sure i will attack from all directions and if the first is complaint and ombudsman - ok, it's done, but it looks like here must be better and faster way.

[leon]

I never could understood how the verification system works at Netteler.Thas why i a am not a member yet.

[vill]

i use netteler and it is much safer than moneybookers I think. the only bad thing is big fees...

[Hareeba!]

i use netteler and it is much safer than moneybookers I think. the only bad thing is big fees...

I used to use Neteller as well but changed over to Moneybookers exclusively because of fees and efficiency.

Now with the security token at Moneybookers why do you say that Neteller is "much safer" ?

[PVO]

i use netteler and it is much safer than moneybookers I think. the only bad thing is big fees...

i still agree with you despite my account is closed

neteller (when it works) looks maybe better than moneybookers

but little detail - closed account - is a pain in the ass
and it is closed 1) not for my security reasons 2) for unknown reasons

and what profit finally i have from this safety ? i did deposit my money to a lot of bookmakers with Neteller and now i have to think how to get them back - not only that money on Neteller account are blocked
some go back easily by another way, but some with difficulties, it cost me really a lot of time

[PVO]

And please - why Hareeba! is still here ? He is on ignore-list because he always try to scutter the attention from initial topic all around clinging to insignificant details or something that has indirect value causing a lot of flood and off-topic.

If he is doing it here again - please dont talk with him in this topic. Do it somewhere else.

You can add him to ignore-list with this link by the way

http://forum.sbrforum.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

[PVO]

I will repeat the main for this moment.

I have a lot to read in a short time. So any help will be useful.

Can anyone give brief information - what real power ombudsman has?
Why financial organization will have motivation to pay attention to ombudsman?

I really don't understand the mechanism of complaints yet. A customer is in position of victim-moaner with his complaint...
When really as the truth is on my side i should be the hunter in this situation.
The first way system offers to me - complaint and ombudsman - ok, it's done, but in this way i have to wait 8 weeks maybe when ombudsman just will start to do something.
It's nonsense for simple situation that can be resolved in 1 day if an independent man with iq >= 150 will take a look on it.
Here must be better and faster way.

[PVO]

I did read general information about ombudsman service on that site
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/.

And i strengthened in my opinion, that
the service is good and useful for those who is going to live forever or has a lot lot lot of time to wait for decision.
But ombudsman service is very very slow, and they are not fully official.

There must be another, more powerful way to solve the problem.
Situation is very simple from my side. My money are taken by financial company.
Financial company does not contact me and does not inform me what is going on.
I have to discover - i have to establish unequivocally - is it legal or illegal - and if it is illegal - i have to contact authorities, not ombudsman service.

So now i have to read the information about FSA and how i can start lawsuit.
Any advises welcome.

( And if it is legal - i have to spend at least 1 day and to write on all the forums i know - that payment system regulated by FSA can take your money without explanation and it is legal - if so this will be very interesting discovery for a lot of people )

[PVO]

Information from Neteller official site

Governing Law
Your use of this Site is governed by the laws of the Isle of Man. All disputes arising out of or relating to these Terms of Use and Privacy Statement shall be resolved by the Courts of the Isle of Man.

FSA authorisation and regulation
NETELLER (UK) Ltd (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Optimal Payments Plc) is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an e-money issuer (FSA Register Number: 900015; UK VAT GB 002 4257 28)

Key registered offices
Optimal Payments Plc, Audax House, Finch Road, Douglas, IM1 2PT, Isle of Man
NETELLER (UK) Ltd, 2 Mount Pleasant, Cambridge, CB3 0RN, United Kingdom
NETBANX Ltd, 2 Mount Pleasant, Cambridge, CB3 0RN, United Kingdom

[PVO]

FSA Register. Electronic money institutions that are or have been registered or authorised by us to issue electronic money under the electronic money regulations 2011

FSA - Electronic Money Regulations
The second Electronic Money Directive (2EMD), which aims to encourage the growth of the electronic money market, was implemented in the UK on 1 May 2011 through the Electronic Money Regulations 2011

If you have any queries about the Electronic Money Regulations please contact us at electronicmoney@fsa.gov.uk

[PVO]

The Electronic Money Regulations 2011

( i did not find any useful information there yet )

[PVO]

Ok. Current questions are as follows:

I want to clarify the situation when EMI (Electronic Money Issuer) registered by FSA and regulated by EMR (Electronic Money Regulations) disables customer's access to his account and to his money. The customer is authorized (identity is fully verified).

Can you help me to find the answer - what points, what paragraphs of EMR (or maybe another legislative act) regulate this situation ?
Is EMI obliged to give registered and authorized customer (identity is fully verified) the access to the account ?
Is EMI obliged to inform the customer about causes when EMI closes/disables/freezes account of authorized customer (especially when there are money on the account) ?
Or EMR (and any other legislative acts) do not regulate this situation and EMI has a right to disable customer's account and take customer's money at any time by own desire ?