Are postive EV players stealing?

[GmCrazy]

And then there is the "bad line" were a book puts up this bad line to lure in the supposed shot-takers. Grade them losers if the lose, cancel them if they win. These books are the real shot-takers, especially when books differ on what is a bad line, its sometimes not as easy as being several points off.

[chachi]

Indeed ... my continued participation in this thread is solely directed at Jon's befuddlement, not at the 'stealing' or casino implications

[scott235]

And then there is the "bad line" were a book puts up this bad line to lure in the supposed shot-takers. Grade them losers if the lose, cancel them if they win. These books are the real shot-takers, especially when books differ on what is a bad line, its sometimes not as easy as being several points off.

No doubt this has been going on for a long time. If there is a loophole, players or the shops will exploit it. In this case, it's just risk free for the books. Too good to pass up

[scott235]

I wonder how many casino operators are going to exploit the recent rulings in 5dimes favor by SBR.

[scott235]

Perhaps we should start and continuously update a thread to report bad lines from books. A good place for it would be a sticky at least on the sb and industry page and also on handi thinktank.

[bettorjon]

You are confusing +EV and probability of an outcome.

+EV is totally unrelated to whether or not a ticket will cash as a winner, it solely is suggesting that the payout on the proposition would be higher than 'it should be' with the 'it should be' part being wholly subjective based upon either own's own analysis, someone else's analysis, or just in comparison to generally available pricing in the marketplace.

excellent explanation.

so thats what +EV means

[chachi]

no worries, glad to sort that out for you

[Tomahawk]

Having +EV is not stealing if it was illegal to have +EV on a bet then casinos couldn't make money.

For sports bet no matter which side has how money EV, couse if the money on the sides is correctly balanced then a sportsbook will make money no matter of the outcome.

So when you have a +EV bet, you're actually taking money from other players but only if the sides are balance. If the side are not balanced then you can take money from the sportsbook too but taking money from somebody doesn't mean you're stealing.

[zabula11]

If taking EV+ would be stealing, then we live in feudalism, where those on TOP rules those on BOTTOM what to do. If those on TOP wants their lives, and labour and money, then everything is OK. If those from BOTTOM do something that is only OK for those on TOP, then it is robbery, theft and they must be killed. It was feudalism, but I think we still can see this on gambling industry nowadays. Just look at terms in any company.. They are totally in favour of company with no rights for customers. So no wonder that customer is always fu*ked up.. Companies in gambling industry are taking billions of dollars from all of us every year having lot of blood on their hands when despread people must kill because they went bankrupted because of gambling but they never ever can accept their own errors and mistakes. Just cumstomer must pay in every scenario. If it is mistake of drunk mind of customer that he goes to lose some money in casino, then it is OK, when it is mistake of operator that he fu*ks something and actualy company loses money, then it is also WIN scenario for company because they have such things in terms so they virtually cant lose money in any possible way. In every business you have to undergone any risk / reward ratio and usually you pai a lot for your mistakes. Very interesting is that in gambling industry which works with pure risk and lot of luck etc they are totally out of this "problems" because they dont have to worry that they will make any mistake.. If they do, they wont pay for that.. We all could see that in my case with 14700 USD gone... Just because SBR says so.. Just because of any hand history which could be modified by 5 Dimes...
So answer who is thiev here is that it is casinos and SBR. Lot of guys here says it is at least un ethical play game with 12% edge... And so what is taking money from ads from 5 Dimes and pretending they are A+ even though they are F??? This does SBR.. They take money from 5Dimes and lie & spit into ours face and tell us that 5 Dimes is same class as for example pinnacle...

[ElLoco23]

So you think it is unethical for SBR to make decisions on disputes involving books they receive money from? Do you think if EZstreet paid SBR a million dollars for an A rating that would be unethical? Nobody cares abouts ethics, its all about the $$$$. Shit, if you owned a forum and some deposit only book agreed to pay you an ungodly amount of money, you would rate them A+ too. Ethics in this gambling industry? Probably not much. lol

[blix177]

thanks but still a lil bit confused.

so for example in soccer, the over 2.5 goals has it at 2.30 while the under 2.5 has it at 1.70. upon checking on the head to head matchup of the two opposing teams, the total goal scored in 7 out of 10 matches had it at under 2.5.

it is right for me to say that i should go for the under since it has +EV?

Yes it works great for live betting. I remember hitting lines for $500 to win $2000, and locking in $1000 to win 700 before. And the lines move, and I can rebet. Can't anymore no Matchbook around for us US players. Also note, this is not without risk, book can always do the bad line thing and take away the winning bet. Have not have that happen to me before, but heard it more than once.

[Kindred]

not trying to be a dick but this is a retarded topic. Even if you're talking about bonus whores in casino's or arbing sports bonuses they don't break the rules, cost of doing business.

if you are talking about sports bets..if +EV bets are stealing why not just end sports betting and have only slots and bingo? it's also pretty dam hard to know exactly what +EV you have on a sports bet.

If you are talking about 5 dimes casino games offered at ridiculous +EV payouts, the bot gave the player an unfair advantage since it was a high variance game so playing hours on end for weeks would be no problem with a bot to play for you. If the player sat there and played himself for hours then he earned it even if 5 dimes was neglegent in offering the game.

I don't really understand OP but I'm trying to help out a little because he's confused on something. If +EV was stealing every casino in vegas is stealing since they offer players -EV games. I've never seen anyone think +EV was stealing, I actually opened this thread to flame whoever started it but instead I'm trying to understand why you would think a player making a +EV sports bet would be stealing. Think of the stock market, do you steal when you make a +EV trade? Or horses and parimutuels, you find a horse offering value are you stealing from everyone in the parimutual? Making smart bets, which is all +EV means, doesn't equate to stealing and I can't really wrap my mind around how you came up with that.

[clowncar]

I think you are confused about my position. I am stating, pretty clearly I thought, that positive ev players are not thieves. I thought the subject should be broached because multiple forum members were referring to positive EV players as thieves.

[doiupc]

Is it stealing if someone prices petrol at $1 a liter instead of the proper $1.02 and you fill up your tank?

This guy asks this girl if she would have sex with him for a million dollars. She says sure. He says "how about one dollar?" She says "what kind of girl do you think I am?" He says "we already established what kind of girl you are. Now we're just haggling over the price."

[clowncar]

This guy asks this girl if she would have sex with him for a million dollars. She says sure. He says "how about one dollar?" She says "what kind of girl do you think I am?" He says "we already established what kind of girl you are. Now we're just haggling over the price."

well done

[tofuman]

but in the end we never know the actual value of "EV"

[Stefan]

but in the end we never know the actual value of "EV"

That's exact what I was thinking while reading this title. Who says that the bet has +EV, it's an assessment.