[soundingstylish]

I know the bookmakers create rules to work in their favour, however I wanted to ask for some advice regarding 'my situation' that has happened over this weekend.


So, Betdaq has a new promotion where they are offering free commission on bets for the first month after joining up so I signed up (all of the same details I use for everything online - the exact same name, address and email). Nothing popped up on signup to alert me that I was unable to proceed so I carried on to create an account.


I deposited £950 (£19 fee) a few hours after and a placed a bet at odds circa 1.4 - it wins. I then placed all of it on the first game of the NBA finals series on the Warriors to win by more than 7 points - that also wins. I'm now up to £1300 profit (plus my £931 deposit) and decide that I'd quite like to withdraw this so I contact Betdaq customer services to get this facility unlocked which is shortly followed by an email "Your account is now verified and activated" along with "Have you seen our BETDAQ Casino Bet £10, Get £30 promotion for all new Casino customers?" promotion. If I had any doubt that the following was going to happen I would have withdrew everything at this point. I then see Sam Stosur in the tennis at what I thought was a rather generous 1.4 against a fading Mattek-Sands so I put 1k on that and that wins.


This is the where the nightmare starts. I try to login into my account an hour or so after that third bet wins and it says the account has been suspended. I contact customer services and they tell me that I have an account with Ladbrokes that still has an active self-exclusion on from 5 years ago and they are joint in someway, something I genuinely never realised because why would I put myself in the position of winning money and then allowing them to use their outrageous rules to wipe it out. They then shut me down with anything I say and tell me that my deposit has been refunded and the £1700 profit will be sent to a charity (something I also highly doubt will happen).


What I'm asking is do I have any sort of position to dispute this? Considering I did absolutely nothing wrong and they checked/verified my account when I asked, it's almost like they were hoping I'd lose it all plus my deposit which they would then get to keep. Can anyone help or have some advice for me? I have been given the number for 'a manager' who I intend to call over the next couple of days.

[Optional]

In their terms they mention Ladbrokes 36 times and make multiple references to self exclusion at one site affecting the other.

Exactly how long in hours after your first bet did they close your account?

[soundingstylish]

My account was verified circa 12 hours after opening and then suspended after 24 hours.

[Optional]

My account was verified circa 12 hours after opening and then suspended after 24 hours.

"We reserve the right to take up to 48 hours to identify any account created on BETDAQ using the same details as the excluded account on Ladbrokes or AceKingdom. During this time, we accept no responsibility for any activity on the site and in the case where funds remain in your account we reserve the right to remit only the portion of those funds that relate to your deposits while donating any funds in excess of this amount to charity."


Looks like you might be out of luck this time

[soundingstylish]

What I don't understand is if this was the exact same situation but I would have lost the money I deposited (£950), the bet/s would stand however because I have won money the bets are voided.

[Optional]

What I don't understand is if this was the exact same situation but I would have lost the money I deposited (£950), the bet/s would stand however because I have won money the bets are voided.

Yes, that seems to be the case.

It's a tricky situation when self exclusion is involved.


You can always appeal the their Gibraltar regulator but honestly with the terms so detailed about the issue I don't think you will get far. Here's the link if you want to try though. https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/remote-gambling

[soundingstylish]

Yes, that seems to be the case.

It's a tricky situation when self exclusion is involved.


You can always appeal the their Gibraltar regulator but honestly with the terms so detailed about the issue I don't think you will get far. Here's the link if you want to try though. https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/remote-gambling

That's so unfair don't you think? If a self excluded compulsive gambler manages to slip through and loses a few grand within the 48 hours, they will quite happily take the £££ but won't pay out any winning ones. Surely it works both ways!

Appreciate that, thank you.

[Optional]

I don't really know what to say. I guess it is unfair if you can lose in the 48 hours but they can't but I also kind of see the point of making it a no win situation as well. From previous experience I'd suspect that if you lost they might still refund the deposit the first time anyway though.

I think it feels much worse as you had no clue this might be a problem there, but don't think that's going to help you much in fighting it.

[dealer wins]

This is nothing less than theft by Betdaq and they should be marked as rogue if they dont pay the man his winnings.

How many people read the 100 pages of T&Cs, 1 in 100 max I would guesstimate.

Their system should be able to instantly flag up self exclusion by surname and DOB and decline the account to be opened.

I didnt even know Betdaq and Labrokes were part of the same group until this thread lol

[arie1985]

From previous experience I'd suspect that if you lost they might still refund the deposit the first time anyway though.

Good point - optional - this is what I'd like to find out as I have losses from Nov 2016 betting on Clinton to win the US elections and lost around £1,200 or something like this as far as I can remember - and this was a self-excluded account (with BetDAQ) that was reopened about 1-2 months before the US elections - they never mentioned Ladbrokes when they reopened my account .... !!

OP,

Thanks for bringing this up. I wasn't aware of it but it could also affect me and I would like to find out.
I've just emailed this to BetDaq and Ladbrokes and would advise what they tell me - it would be interesting to hear:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Betdaq,

I came across this thread:
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...daq-issue.html

I wasn't aware you are connected to Ladbrokes.

I have self-exclusion with Ladbrokes from January 17, 2014 for 5 years as shown enclosed.

In that case - am I entitled to receive a refund of my losses with BetDaq that I had since the account was reopened afterwards within this time span of 5 years?

Regards,

Arie

[dealer wins]

arie this will be very interesting.

[Border Gadgie]

If your Ladbrokes account was self excluded 5 years ago, check out the information here.


Ladbrokes/Betdaq self exclusion help centre info:
http://helpcentre.ladbrokes.com/app/...self-exclusionIf I was already excluded with BETDAQ am I automatically excluded from Ladbrokes?

If you have self-excluded with either Ladbrokes or BETDAQ from 8th April 2014, a self-exclusion has automatically been applied to both.

Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via; self-exclusions have not been applied retrospectively. I.e. if you self-excluded with BETDAQ prior to 8th April 2014, you would not be self-excluded with Ladbrokes, and vice versa, unless you requested a self-exclusion from both companies.

[shaunovery]

If you self exclude from a betting company it shows willingness from you're part that you have a gambling problem , so why would you open another account with another company

[arie1985]

arie this will be very interesting.

Hello,

BetDaq replied to me quoting the text that was given in this thread earlier
that they don't take any responsibility for losses occurred within the first 48 hours.

I've just replied back to them advising the losses occurred more than 48 hours after the reopening of my BetDaq account.

Regarding 2014 they did not make any statement related to it and let's wait for them to reply to the email I've just sent them.

If you have any questions for me please ask.

Thanks,

Arie

[arie1985]

If you self exclude from a betting company it shows willingness from you're part that you have a gambling problem , so why would you open another account with another company

I think that's the problem with gambling that you don't always control it and it's not something under 100% control. For me using agent and only betting with money I have instead of using credit card has been a no brainer.

[dealer wins]

Void winnings and take losses, yep Betdaq just like 99.9% of dodgy operators in this dirty industry.

[Border Gadgie]

Hello,

BetDaq replied to me quoting the text that was given in this thread earlier
that they don't take any responsibility for losses occurred within the first 48 hours.

I've just replied back to them advising the losses occurred more than 48 hours after the reopening of my BetDaq account.

Regarding 2014 they did not make any statement related to it and let's wait for them to reply to the email I've just sent them.

If you have any questions for me please ask.

Thanks,

Arie

Refer them their own t&c's, it shows your Betdaq & Ladbrokes accounts should not have been linked for this as the original Ladbrokes account was self excluded before April 2014. Looks to me as they are ignoring or have misread their own instructions.

Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via; self-exclusions have not been applied retrospectively. I.e. if you self-excluded with BETDAQ prior to 8th April 2014, you would not be self-excluded with Ladbrokes, and vice versa, unless you requested a self-exclusion from both companies.

[arie1985]

Refer them their own t&c's, it shows your Betdaq & Ladbrokes accounts should not have been linked for this as the original Ladbrokes account was self excluded before April 2014. Looks to me as they are ignoring or have misread their own instructions.

Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via; self-exclusions have not been applied retrospectively. I.e. if you self-excluded with BETDAQ prior to 8th April 2014, you would not be self-excluded with Ladbrokes, and vice versa, unless you requested a self-exclusion from both companies.

Sorry mate, I'm in a conference right now so when I get back home I will check all the data, currently using mobile with low battery.
Speak later.

[Optional]

Refer them their own t&c's, it shows your Betdaq & Ladbrokes accounts should not have been linked for this as the original Ladbrokes account was self excluded before April 2014. Looks to me as they are ignoring or have misread their own instructions.

Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via; self-exclusions have not been applied retrospectively. I.e. if you self-excluded with BETDAQ prior to 8th April 2014, you would not be self-excluded with Ladbrokes, and vice versa, unless you requested a self-exclusion from both companies.

That's the opposite of helpful in what Arie was talking about.

He was saying BetDAQ should refund losses as he chose exclusion at Ladbrokes and therefore should be excluded from BetDAQ as well. But as it was 5 years ago, your text says that is NOT the case.


As far as gaming rules around Self Exclusion policies. Just forget it. The govt, regulators and media are hot to trot about irresponsible gambling and books wont take any risks with it. They don't change their minds and they don't refund losses without some sort of regulator or court order as they are not going to risk breaching their responsibility conditions. Fines are massive for them.

[soundingstylish]

Just had a chat with a bloke on Live Chat because I was too busy at work to call today. Just wanted to get someone more details regarding the reason why/how it happened, wasn't all that helpful towards the end...

Conor : Hi, my name is Conor. How may I help you?
Sam Goff: Hello Conor, I had my account suspended over the weekend with my winnings taken off of me. I want to know the details of this so I can make a complaint
Sam Goff: My username is xxxxxx
Conor: Ok. A few moments. For security there could I get your date of birth please?
Sam Goff: xx/xx/xxxx
Conor: Thankyou. Please give me a few moments to look into this for you
Sam Goff: Sure, thank you
Conor: Could I get your username please?
Conor: xxxxxx A few moments
Conor: So as Im sure it has been already explained to you that you were entitled to your deposit back which was given to you £950. The profits accrued during the time it took us to identify you, a sum of £1783:84 was given to charity as per our terms and conditions
Conor: What specific details are you looking for?
Sam Goff: Why was that account suspended?
Conor: You had self excluded on a previous account with for 5 Years, This will end on 29/03/2018
Sam Goff: An account with Betdaq?
Conor: Yes
Sam Goff: The email, name and DOB was the same as the old account? An account I asked if I had and was told not before I signed up for a new one.
Conor: As per our terms and conditions your account has been closed due to been related to a self excluded account
Sam Goff: I understand that, what I am asking is was the name, email and DOB the same on both accounts?
Conor: As stated similar details were found on a linked account and therefore we had no choice but to close the account
Sam Goff: Why wasn't this picked up on sign-up? Every up-to-date website would match an email and not allow you to sign up in the first place
Conor: Please refer to our terms and conditions
Sam Goff: Then when I contacted your colleague Sean about unlocking my withdrawal facility, he checked my account and verified it Conor: Unfortunately, We are obliged by the terms in this instance
Conor: The account will have to remain closed
Sam Goff: I understand that it has to be closed
Conor: As per our terms we have 48 hours to pick up the account. I apologise for any miss-information you have received
Sam Goff: Firstly, your system should have flagged up my details (I use the same name, email, DOB, address for everything) and then Sean shouldn't have verified the account. I did ask if I had a account on your system before I joined up and was told no hence signing up for your 0% commission offer.
Conor: As per our terms we have 48 hours to pick up the account. I apologise for any miss-information you have received
Sam Goff: I was also told by two of your colleagues that if I had lost the £950 deposit, you would NOT have voided them bets (I wouldn't have wanted you to because I was betting in good faith) however you voided the bets because I won. Do you not think this is unfair? Quite happily take someone's money but won't payout
Sam Goff: Well done!
Conor has disconnected.

[arie1985]

That's the opposite of helpful in what Arie was talking about.

He was saying BetDAQ should refund losses as he chose exclusion at Ladbrokes and therefore should be excluded from BetDAQ as well. But as it was 5 years ago, your text says that is NOT the case.


As far as gaming rules around Self Exclusion policies. Just forget it. The govt, regulators and media are hot to trot about irresponsible gambling and books wont take any risks with it. They don't change their minds and they don't refund losses without some sort of regulator or court order as they are not going to risk breaching their responsibility conditions. Fines are massive for them.

Hi again .... I'm back home, I looked at my records - and emailed BetDaq as follows:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello BetDaq,

I am self excluded with Ladbrokes from 17th of January 2014. See enclosed a proof of self-exclusion taking place from that date for 5 years (until 17th of January 2019).

I requested to activate my BetDaq account on Friday - 16th of September 2016.
My request was granted with approval.

The losing bets I placed were placed on the 9th of November 2016 which is more than 48 hours after the 16th of September 2016.
Thus, according to the T&C my account was not spotted as self-excluded after a period of 48 hours.

In that case am I not entitled for a refund of the losing bets due to self exclusion with Ladbrokes in place?

Regards,

Arie

[Optional]

Arie, you're just trying to take a shot at them. It's not a good look.

And as Border Gadgie posted, "Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via". Which is after your request to Ladbrokes. So they are just going to quote that back at you anyway.

[arie1985]

That's the opposite of helpful in what Arie was talking about.

I agree it's very unhelpful and it's definitely not his job nor mine to inform them about this, I've anyway submitted my email to them already, and would advise how they respond - if they do rely on this clause then you guys make up what you want from this, I won't feel bad if I get the losses refunded and I won't feel good neither, I am contacting them purely because I'm feeling upset for the OP who has to lose his winnings because of unscrupulous T&C - that's the only reason why I contacted BetDaq in the first place, as I felt the need to show solidarity towards the OP and that's why I got my own personal account involved - if it was for any other reason I wouldn't hav bothered to inquire about this.

[arie1985]

Arie, you're just trying to take a shot at them. It's not a good look.

And as Border Gadgie posted, "Any self-exclusions prior to 8th April 2014 will only be applicable to the platform that you excluded via". Which is after your request to Ladbrokes. So they are just going to quote that back at you anyway.

Yes, that's fine optional, I am totally aware of it - let's see how they respond - as I said it's not my job to show them this text or not, perhaps a manager who is already working on this is not aware of it, I don't know and I just tried to do my utmost in terms of showing whether they really care about self-exclusion or whether they care more about confiscating funds from customers (and "donating" them to charity).
At worse - I'd advise the OP to contact BetDaq and ask them for a proof of payment made to charity or alternatively to ask them to donate it to a charity of his own choice (e.g. I'd donate it to a UK Jewish charity since I'm Jewish).

[arie1985]

As expected I received a reply from BetDaq (from Conor, the same person the OP was chatting with) - as follows:

This was before the joint exclusion with ladbrokes:

The exclusion has been in place since before the Betdaq/Ladbrokes joint exclusion policy that came into effect on 8th April 2014. Subsequently, the exclusion does not apply to the customer's BETDAQ Account

So I tried my best, hope my contribution helps.
Thanks!