Betonline robbed me (but using their terms to back it up)

[bubba]

they took all my poker points (i dont know the amount they took since the robbery was secretly done but defenitely in the hundreds of dollars worth if not 4 figures). Apparently per there terms and conditions they do this on a certain date every year and decided to take them all on september 1st this year. Just having something in the rules is not justification for doing this. send me a warning email that you will be robbing me. just fair warning prior to robbery is all i ask. they email constant bullshit with poker (vip level changings that MEAN NOTHING, yet no warning of the vipoints disappearing).

Shady, shady shady. I cannot be expected to remember every rule they have. just having things listed that arent standard are not enough. shady as hell. I asked them nicely to return the stolen points and they refuse. Beware.

[littlekona]

How is the traffic and games on there poker? is there poker a skin or there own? Ive been playing @ betcoin, heritage and nitrogen...

[bubba]

im not a poker expert. there are not that many games and the rake is horrific. im not even sure why i play there haha. makes the robbery even more infuriating

[littlekona]

[QUOTE=bubba;27219987]im not a poker expert. there are not that many games and the rake is horrific. im not even sure why i play there haha. makes the robbery even more infuriating[/QUOTE\


I used BOL long ago and recently they added a 500$ free play to my account but I think i have to deposit to use and not sure of roll over but with them charging a fee to withdrawal BTC 2% is ridiculous

[bubba]

[QUOTE=littlekona;27220067]

im not a poker expert. there are not that many games and the rake is horrific. im not even sure why i play there haha. makes the robbery even more infuriating[/QUOTE\


I used BOL long ago and recently they added a 500$ free play to my account but I think i have to deposit to use and not sure of roll over but with them charging a fee to withdrawal BTC 2% is ridiculous

while they are robbing me, i believe they no longer rob customers with a 2% fees on bitcoin withdrawals. they are currently doing robberies in other ways.

[Optional]

There is no withdrawal fee for using Bitcoin. That ended in 2016.

And what would you have done if they reminded you your VIP level was about to be re-assessed based on the last 12 months activity? Not like you can go back and be more active suddenly. Is it a rip off if they don't remind you of every rule they have just in case you havent read it or dont remember it? Especially something you could not do anything about in hindsight anyway!


Their poker room is shared between them and Tigergaming and for tournaments there is always something going and plenty of people compared to other US facing ones I have tried.

2800 players on 173 tables right now.

[bubba]

There is no withdrawal fee for using Bitcoin. That ended in 2016.

And what would you have done if they reminded you your VIP level was about to be re-assessed based on the last 12 months activity? Not like you can go back and be more active suddenly. Is it a rip off if they don't remind you of every rule they have just in case you havent read it or dont remember it? Especially something you could not do anything about in hindsight anyway!


Their poker room is shared between them and Tigergaming and for tournaments there is always something going and plenty of people compared to other US facing ones I have tried.

2800 players on 173 tables right now.

I think you are misunderstanding the complaint. They didnt lower my vip level (which is meaningless and ever changing and they email me every time it changes despite me asking them not to). They took away vippoints that were earned that I was under the impression never expire. They didnt even take them away cause a year passed or something like that. It was because they always take away all points on x/xx (said date hidden in their terms). If you dont agree that this is a sleazy move taking away points earned based (based on rediculous rake i give them) I dont know what to tell you.

It would be like heritage having in their terms that all cash back automatically dissapears on january 15th every year if it has not been wagered. An unfriendly rule to the players for sure. But if they told the players this on January 1st or whenever, then there is no complaint. If they had the rule hidden amonst 1000 other rules and make no mention, then it is close to robbery when that $ disappears.

I think its pretty clear sleaziness by betonline, and i assume you misunderstood the complaint if you disagree. I could have used the earned points if they gave me notice before robbing them away without warning. If the robbery wasnt so big i never would have noticed but points were lowered by hundreds of thousands if not millions.

[Optional]

Maybe i do misunderstand. I didn't notice my VIP points being zeroed though. Is there a log anywhere you know of?

[bubba]

Maybe i do misunderstand. I didn't notice my VIP points being zeroed though. Is there a log anywhere you know of?

I dont know of a log, but you probably had points stolen from you too! I only noticed because my points were a very high number. They dont deny the theft, they just say its ok cause it is in their terms and conditions. I dont mind having the rule of taking points, i mind being secretive about it. Hiding something in terms nobody knows to expect is not acceptable for thefts.

[SBR Forum]

Hi bubba,

BetOnline provided a record of the mailer they sent out regarding this with a heads up in advance. It wasn't a buried in the fineprint type of move. We'll email you a copy of the mailer in case you missed it.

[relaaxx]

I'm guessing bubba missed the mailer. if he was sent any. why not just give him back the points to use in a quick time period. give him a one time break for not knowing about that specific rule. why be a prick about the rules. I'm sure the rule is not there to steal from a customers ignorance about the rule. why not keep a customer happy. he earned the points let him keep them.

I think betoline sucks anyways. they seem to be proving it with their stern position on this. why not come to some agreement with the customer.

just realized they are rated 5th here. this is a chance to prove they might actually deserve that rating.

problems happen at the best of books , that's not unusual. what is most important is how they are handled.

this is not being handled well.

[themike78]

Speaking of betonline why is it that they still have a website up betonline.com as well as betonline.ag. I have been trying for 15 minutes to log into my account until I realized I was on betonline.com not .ag. Apparently you can only use .ag and not .com. Can somebody please get them to take down the .com website? Very confusing and annoying.

[bubba]

Hi bubba,

BetOnline provided a record of the mailer they sent out regarding this with a heads up in advance. It wasn't a buried in the fineprint type of move. We'll email you a copy of the mailer in case you missed it.

Im massively confused. Are you saying they sent something in the "snail mail" about this issue? If i was ever emailed about the robbery, i never got one. Can you tell me the date they sent this? If you are saying snail mail, i laugh as that is not the way i ever communicate with any online book and certainly never received proper notice.

This most certainly is a buried in the fine print type of move. The only reason to steal earned player points is for the sake of stealing them and having their rules to back it up.

[bubba]

I'm guessing bubba missed the mailer. if he was sent any. why not just give him back the points to use in a quick time period. give him a one time break for not knowing about that specific rule. why be a prick about the rules. I'm sure the rule is not there to steal from a customers ignorance about the rule. why not keep a customer happy. he earned the points let him keep them.

I think betoline sucks anyways. they seem to be proving it with their stern position on this. why not come to some agreement with the customer.

just realized they are rated 5th here. this is a chance to prove they might actually deserve that rating.

problems happen at the best of books , that's not unusual. what is most important is how they are handled.

this is not being handled well.

No kidding. Just return the points and give me time to use them. No mailer was ever received. I have payed thousands of dollars in rake to earn those points and this is the thanks i get.

Just have no reward system at all, thats fine. dont give ppoints and steal them back from your most loyal players. what a dumb move. thieves.

[evo34]

Same thing can happen at Bookmaker. Once they disable BetPoints (and there is no warning), all acumulated BetPoints you have become immediately worthless.

[relaaxx]

Bookmaker another book that sucks, said in many threads

[Lucky Strike]

Speaking of betonline why is it that they still have a website up betonline.com as well as betonline.ag. I have been trying for 15 minutes to log into my account until I realized I was on betonline.com not .ag. Apparently you can only use .ag and not .com. Can somebody please get them to take down the .com website? Very confusing and annoying.

Its been like that for months

[themike78]

Its been like that for months

Makes no sense. And things like that are what make me not make a deposit. I will play with the $100 Freeplay they gave me but if a book has multiple websites up and can't fix that problem Im not playing there. Very unprofessional on their part.

[rangerz2478]

Its been like that for months

More like years. Have accidentally gone to .com multiple times before I realized. Not sure why they haven't gotten rid of it, or at the least post something saying everything moved to .ag.

[bubba]

Same thing can happen at Bookmaker. Once they disable BetPoints (and there is no warning), all acumulated BetPoints you have become immediately worthless.

agree bookmaker is wrong for doing this. However, they do this to 1 customer at a time who presumably has been winning at least. still wrong.

betonline did this to every last 1 of their customers all at once. shameful.

[Optional]

I dont know of a log, but you probably had points stolen from you too! I only noticed because my points were a very high number. They dont deny the theft, they just say its ok cause it is in their terms and conditions. I dont mind having the rule of taking points, i mind being secretive about it. Hiding something in terms nobody knows to expect is not acceptable for thefts.

It's here in the terms;

https://www.betonline.ag/rules#poker-rules

COMP points accrue from April 1st to March 31st each year. COMP accrued in each COMP year remains valid until June 30th of the next COMP year. At the end of the COMP year, all COMP points expire.

I guess my points were zeroed on 1st July and I just didn't notice.


I didn't know about it either but it's not really 'hidden'. Just unexpected.

The cost of choosing not to read the terms every time is that sometimes we get caught by unexpected rules. :shrug

[Bang]

Feel for you. Something similar happened to me at an entirely different site, hotels.com.

I piled up a few free rooms from their rewards program. A few months back I noticed a couple of them disappeared. I called the 1-800 number to inquire. The customer service person told me they expire after a certain time if not used. Of course I was a little pissed. CS person directed me through the site where it shows they expire. Never even noticed. They surely don't advertise it. Obvious why they wouldn't as these companies save a lot of $$$ by confiscating unused reward points.

Similar thing happened with one of my cc reward points a few years back. They just started expiring and I had to dig to see why. Their asses covered due to terms.

Moral of story - need to read those terms. I learned my lesson on the two scenarios above. Oh well

[bubba]

It's here in the terms;

https://www.betonline.ag/rules#poker-rules

COMP points accrue from April 1st to March 31st each year. COMP accrued in each COMP year remains valid until June 30th of the next COMP year. At the end of the COMP year, all COMP points expire.

I guess my points were zeroed on 1st July and I just didn't notice.


I didn't know about it either but it's not really 'hidden'. Just unexpected.

The cost of choosing not to read the terms every time is that sometimes we get caught by unexpected rules. :shrug

Just being in the terms is not enough. What if the terms said u get charged a $1,000 account fee every 365 days. If you didnt notice it, they could just take $1,000 out of your account? You would shrug it off as "in the terms" so no big deal. I am not denying its in the terms. That is not enough though. I cant be expected to remember all the terms, and when the want to have a "stealing from clients" in the terms, they need to warn the clients before doing this. I expect better from you Optional. I dont really know you, but i expect better from you (and sbr). Maybe silly me for expecting reasonableness from SBR and their "A" rated book.

[bubba]

The cost of choosing not to read the terms every time is that sometimes we get caught by unexpected rules. :shrug

Every time?? are youa ctually implying 1 should read the rules every time before logging in to be kept up to date in case there is something asinine that may apply? oh boy!

[relaaxx]

it just sucks that betonline can't give you something that would keep you a happy customer. all your points a good portion something. instead they just stick with "rules are rules". move on play elsewhere. everyone seeing this thread should move on. why do business with them cheap bastards.

we all know we should know the rules. who cares. make an exception. keep your customers happy. how about thinking for a few points we get some good PR instead of people like me saying they suck.

why? because they don't care about their customer base.

I will be bringing this thread up for quite a long time. every chance I get with a related thread. hope to cost them a lot more than bubba's lost. hopefully I will not be the only other one besides bubba.

how about the other thread here--another reason they suck. Betonline cancels political wagers that go against them

again "rules are rules" is just not a good enough answer.

[bubba]

it just sucks that betonline can't give you something that would keep you a happy customer. all your points a good portion something. instead they just stick with "rules are rules". move on play elsewhere. everyone seeing this thread should move on. why do business with them cheap bastards.

we all know we should know the rules. who cares. make an exception. keep your customers happy. how about thinking for a few points we get some good PR instead of people like me saying they suck.

why? because they don't care about their customer base.

I will be bringing this thread up for quite a long time. every chance I get with a related thread. hope to cost them a lot more than bubba's lost. hopefully I will not be the only other one besides bubba.

how about the other thread here--another reason they suck. Betonline cancels political wagers that go against them


again "rules are rules" is just not a good enough answer.

I dont mind books going by "rules are rules" when something is industry standard or expected to be known. Not paying a baseball total that is over in the 4th inning is fine to say "rules are rules" (game that is later rained out I should say). Something obscure that is not normal, intended to take something away from a player who has no reason to see the upcoming confiscation, is not right to just say "rules are rules". Like i think i originally said, betonline must have sent me 100s of emails in the past year (many about poker). I got no email warning me they were robbing all players of points on a certain date. Its the type of thing that they should have sent out multiple warning emails about to make the robbery justified. At least a message on players accounts 1 time would have been sufficient. Its a petty thing for them to take this stance on player robberies.

Lower your re-up bonus and secretly rob players less. Its the right thing to do.

[Optional]

Every time?? are youa ctually implying 1 should read the rules every time before logging in to be kept up to date in case there is something asinine that may apply? oh boy!

I wasn't implying anything more than stated Bubba. And how do you divine from this that I am telling you that you must read the rules?

"The cost of choosing not to read the terms every time is that sometimes we get caught by unexpected rules."

I am saying that I did not read all the rules. That I did not know about or expect that one. And that I am taking personal responsibility for my own choice. You can do/think what you want but I do not think I deserve your personal attacks for merely being stupid enough to reply honestly to you. I'll know better in future.

[bubba]

I wasn't implying anything more than stated Bubba. And how do you divine from this that I am telling you that you must read the rules?

"The cost of choosing not to read the terms every time is that sometimes we get caught by unexpected rules."

I am saying that I did not read all the rules. That I did not know about or expect that one. And that I am taking personal responsibility for my own choice. You can do/think what you want but I do not think I deserve your personal attacks for merely being stupid enough to reply honestly to you. I'll know better in future.

I asked 2 questions and followed by an "oh boy". were my questions unfair? or was saying "oh boy" the personal attack? I think you are being overly sensitive especially since I am not mad at you because you did not rob me. I am mad at betonline for robbing me and hiding the reason in their terms and conditions. I hardly think my quote comes off as a personal attack but if you are honestly offended I apologize and will attempt to be softer with you in the future.

I do think you are clearly on the wrong side of right and wrong if you think sites can have anything they want in their terms and conditions and we have to live with it when we didnt know. Its not like the robbery term was their when I signed up with betonline xxxx years ago. Not sure how long the robbery term has been on the books but I am certain it wasnt on the books then. And I do not think sites should be able to amend the terms and conditions whenever they want without notifying the customers, especially when it is something that the customer would have no way of knowing without randomly reading the terms of conditions after the amendment.

I disagree with you so strongly on this issue, but nothing personal!

[OVAKUL]

Not sure this is good business: giving perks but attaching so much fine print to them that only sharp players would be able to actually take advantage of the perks. I imagine it's a better idea to give bonus to players who aren't very sharp or organized, or to noone at all.

[bubba]

Not sure this is good business: giving perks but attaching so much fine print to them that only sharp players would be able to actually take advantage of the perks. I imagine it's a better idea to give bonus to players who aren't very sharp or organized, or to noone at all.

Forget about business. Its just shady to take things away from your customers when they would have no realistic way to know they are being taken away.

Maybe stealing from your most loyal customers is good for business, doesnt make it right.

[evo34]

Hi bubba,

BetOnline provided a record of the mailer they sent out regarding this with a heads up in advance. It wasn't a buried in the fineprint type of move. We'll email you a copy of the mailer in case you missed it.

So what's the deal? They sent a postcard to people to warn them?

[Bsims]

I just encountered a similar problem at a physical casino, Turning Stone in central New York. They zero out tier points twice a year on September 1st and March 1st. Their fine print mentions that the points are good for 6 months, but no where do they mention it is a fixed 6 month period. Lets face it, businesses don't offer these "reward" points as gifts to their customers, but rather as a method of increasing their volume. It's ironic when they manage to lose good customers over these rules.

I suspect these expiration's are put there for accounting purposes. These outstanding rewards probably need to be listed as liabilities somewhere.