Betting exchange - NJ

[Martinr]

Starting out by offering horse racing only. Planned to kick off at Monmouth, May. Seems a smart business move by Betfair to get an exchange presence in the US.
Liquidity will be low at first, markets possibly seeded by Betfair themselves, but if/when sports betting becomes legal, exchange betting will have a ready made platform to launch from. Buy shares.

[jjgold]

always will be empty

Exchanges all fail but Betfair

Americans are not savy enough to use them and prefer traditional betting

Secondly horses dead in usa..pools getting smaller and smaller yearly

[Martinr]

It'll catch on jj. This move by Betfair gets them set to expand if sports betting ever does become legal nationwide. It will help them get a license for sports betting, and I reckon this could be the main reason why they've started operating at Monmouth. They know themselves that horse racing is a dead/dying market in the US but they need to start somewhere and get a presence.
Exchange betting will appeal to a lot of players. There are plenty of reasons why players would switch - 5% commission (or less), the ability to back or lay, limits only restricted by liquidity, no getting booted for being a winning player. Plenty US players already using BF via VPN.

[jjgold]

Pools are ok for Betfair with their usa racing right now but that is mainly Euro money

It might help with Betfair backing them

We shall see

[sheepgotwool]

Would love to give this a try. Any more information on this ? Back in the day you would get incredible lines at ehorse/betmaker. It was fun and very profitable !! Hard to believe this will start in May. Horse parlors in jersey are packed with degenerates and losers. Use to bet the ponies all the time and an exchange would allow me to get back into it .

[relaaxx]

sounds good. in the future when gambling is legal. i'll be dead by then but i do think in the future even us americans will catch on to the much better exchange platform for gambling.

[Martinr]

http://us.betfair.com/hr-simulator

liquidity won't be as high as in that ^ simulator, but in-play betting on the ponies might catch on.
Exchange betting in-play on the big US sports is what I want to see.

[thespeculator]

If they offer in play horses it will catch on for sure. Betfair through Vpn isn't easy!!

[sheepgotwool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sioZqfKQSk

May 10 it is opening. Looks like betfair trying to get approval in California by end of year.

[Optional]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sioZqfKQSk

May 10 it is opening. Looks like betfair trying to get approval in California by end of year.

It's only going to take regular horse bettors one try of it to completely dump paramutual betting, no matter how tough anyone thinks it is to understand at first.

[Martinr]

Liquidity will be a problem early, but they can seed the markets no problem, and now that Betfair have the cable coverage of racing totally wrapped up there will be plenty of exposure.
Betting on racing in the USA is dead mainly because of the rake, so this could (and should) breathe life back into the game for punters.

[Foxx]

Will be 12% base commission from what I hear. That's pretty steep. Only New Jersey residents within New Jersey but will commingle liquidity from Betfair International and sounds like Betfair have permission from several non-Jersey tracks to offer their races on the USA exchange so expect more than Monmouth. Legal authorization for the dreaded Premium Charge is written into the Jersey law so if you're a winner, expect that to kick in sooner or later and factor it in if you are going to quit your day job. All in all, exchange wagering should be a good deal for US players. Longterm, getting in bed with a company like Betfair will be another nail in the coffin for US horse racing.

[Hareeba!]

Will be 12% base commission from what I hear. That's pretty steep.

Pretty tough to beat the game if paying that much commission!
Betfair in Australia has just a 5% base commission on US racing. With discounts for loyalty you could get that down as low as 2% if your turnover is high enough.

[thespeculator]

It's only going to take regular horse bettors one try of it to completely dump paramutual betting, no matter how tough anyone thinks it is to understand at first.

Agree totally!!!! I didn't care a lick about horses until I joined betfair and became the biggest fan. This will bring more fans to racing IMO

[mtneer1212]

The exchange is Dead on Arrival. It is DOA because:

1. Americans will despise the exchange system for horses.
2. Horse racing, especially in NJ is in a steep decline.
3. The 12% vig makes it an unbettable option. If you really wanted to attract gamblers to the exchange to try it, wouldn't you have a miniscule takeout at first to attract volume, then increase it over time? Big horseplayers betting into pari-mutuel pools and getting a rebate is a much better deal.

DOA, boys..... horrible marketing, greed, and a shitty product. Move on, nothing to see here.........

[Hareeba!]

[QUOTE=mtneer1212;25691326]The exchange is Dead on Arrival. It is DOA because:

1. Americans will despise the exchange system for horses.

Why?
Are Americans that much different to punters in the rest of the world who've embraced exchange betting?

(hmmm ... perhaps they are when one thinks about Trump, religion and the NRA!)

[mtneer1212]

[QUOTE=Hareeba!;25691414]

The exchange is Dead on Arrival. It is DOA because:

1. Americans will despise the exchange system for horses.

Why?
Are Americans that much different to punters in the rest of the world who've embraced exchange betting?

(hmmm ... perhaps they are when one thinks about Trump, religion and the NRA!)

Correct. We are sheep. BAAAAA.

[Foxx]

The exchange is Dead on Arrival. It is DOA because:

1. Americans will despise the exchange system for horses.
2. Horse racing, especially in NJ is in a steep decline.
3. The 12% vig makes it an unbettable option. If you really wanted to attract gamblers to the exchange to try it, wouldn't you have a miniscule takeout at first to attract volume, then increase it over time? Big horseplayers betting into pari-mutuel pools and getting a rebate is a much better deal.

DOA, boys..... horrible marketing, greed, and a shitty product. Move on, nothing to see here.........

Very ignorant post on several levels.

[Hareeba!]

<header id="header"> <section id="blog_info"> http://crunktrunk.tumblr.com/post/144050402883/exchange-first-impressions

built for comfort

</section> <section id="blog_avatar"> </section> </header> <section class="caption group"> Exchange First Impressions

Here’s some quick first impressions from someone who made their first wagers on the BetFair exchange over the course of the last couple days. The exchange is still in Beta, though supposedly it is due to launch this week with the opening of the Monmouth meet.
-The track menu is limited. Below are today’s available tracks. You will notice only two of the five offer in-running wagering:
<figure data-orig-width="840" data-orig-height="477" class="tmblr-full"></figure>-The commissions I’ve paid on winnings have been in the 9.8-10% range. It has been reported commissions will be 12%. I’ve no idea why there appears to be a discrepancy between what I’m paying and what the reported rate is.
-This is a whole new, fun world for me. The one thing that is striking to me is that I’m more engaged in betting throughout the entire process of activity in a race when liquidity begins to show up. So when trades begin in a race, I’m keeping my eye on that activity throughout the entire process. Because this is fixed odds wagering, there are opportunities to “middle” out of positions and lock up small profits in these fluctuations, if that’s your thing. This is way different than waiting 30 minutes between races to see when the real late money comes in to react. The exchange allows you be engaged in a race at any time, real action *way* before the race. The other side of this is that you can just name your price well ahead of time and just leave it there to be matched.
-I was surprised at the level of liquidity of some races. There were races at Tampa that had more US $ matched in the win pool on the exchange than were bet in the same pool on the tote. Obviously, there is pooling of the worldwide exchange with this US exchange. There’s been real worry about liquidity if this exchange was to be limited to NJ-only players. It does not appear that will be case.
-In-play running is something I’m going to have to get used to. My impressions are that this is a mugs game. This is where your ability to get as close to a live video feed as possible is the difference between being a sucker and being good. My video feeds for Tampa and Turf Paradise were well behind what was actually happening in the in-running market and this was obvious to me from the very first race I played in-running. You can see who won the race based on the in-running market action well before whatever happens on the video feed. This signals to me that the exchange tech is very good and that, as usual, the old streaming video tech is outdated. Not sure what the answers are here to leveling the playing field but I didn’t feel like I was playing on one. I believe there will be a major advantage to sitting at the track at Monmouth and playing in-running directly from the track.
-The exchange action is weird if you keep your eye on the tote too. Sometimes the two markets, taken together, make no sense at all. Sometimes they are closely aligned. Either way, this is just more, good signal information to take in when forming your opinion about a race. There’s obviously “bots” at work on the exchange and one of the positives here is that the industry narrative that bots are destroying value doesn’t hold up because you, and you alone, are the one setting whatever price is acceptable to you. I would imagine the bots are purely employed on the exchange to middle out entire races and capture small long term profits.
-The narrative in the US that is anti-exchange has mostly focused on how betting against horses is bad and will lead to all sorts of chicanery. I don’t agree with that narrative. So far though, I really haven’t seen compelling reasons to be laying horses in cheap claiming races on the tracks on offer. The only laying I’ve done so far is basically to capture back some value on horses where the action has shifted. I’m new to the concepts of laying so this will require more experimenting.
-Linking up accounts with 4NJBets and the NJ Exchange was very simple. I can move money between the two accounts seamlessly as if they were one account. NJ players who are interested in the exchange will be surprised at how well this is handled.
All in all, I hope more tracks are added to the menu and that NJ players embrace the exchange. To me, it’s a very exciting development. It was so exciting to me that on Derby weekend, I hardly looked at and didn’t even play any of the races at Churchill. If I can shift my action from the biggest day of the year to places like Tampa and Turf Paradise, that should signal how exciting it is. It makes playing through the tote seem like 2D versus the 3D of the exchange.

</section>

[indio]

[QUOTE=Hareeba!;25691414]

The exchange is Dead on Arrival. It is DOA because:

1. Americans will despise the exchange system for horses.

Why?
Are Americans that much different to punters in the rest of the world who've embraced exchange betting?

(hmmm ... perhaps they are when one thinks about Trump, religion and the NRA!)

Another discussion ruined when somebody feels the need to inject their political leanings on a non-political topic. Made all the more pathetic when it's done in a failed sarcastic tone of superiority by an Aussie who elected a clueless twit like Gillard and actually passed a law to tax carbon dioxide. That's right, a tax on the citizens and businesses for their use of an element of air, all to enrich a bunch of internationalist frauds. At least you all had the common sense to repeal that in 2014.

[mtneer1212]

Very ignorant post on several levels.

I have been a horseplayer for many years. This will never get off the ground, and there will be no liquidity. If it were a sports exchange, then it would have a good chance. But not for horses.

And I don't mean to crush your dream here...... but if you think this has a prayer to succeed, then you sir are the ignorant one.

[indio]

I have been a horseplayer for many years. This will never get off the ground, and there will be no liquidity. If it were a sports exchange, then it would have a good chance. But not for horses.

And I don't mean to crush your dream here...... but if you think this has a prayer to succeed, then you sir are the ignorant one.

If I understand it correctly, It's essentially just a satellite for a pre-existing international exchange, which would essentially mean all it has to do is attract enough new money and fees to cover the cost of maintenance and operating expenses, which can't be all that much.

This will attract some players to bet and trade win and place markets which they cannot do currently. Nobody with an ounce of sense is going to put any liquid into a small pari-mutual like Emerald where they bet against their own money, a 17% hold, and breakage. It doesn't happen. But if you can get some international trading on those 6 horse fields of 4k claimers where you can secure a fixed price, you might get some activity. The pick3, superfecta, and other exotic pools will stay as the viable pari-mutual option for most horseplayers. Keep in mind, they are looking at getting a toe-hold in the American market, they don't need a whole lot of success in New Jersey to justify their operating expenses.

Horse racing is practically dead in the US, as most of its operating tracks are subsidized by racino's and governments. California track owners got their congressman to get them a $60 million a year payoff if online poker gets passed in CA. As long as these dumps are being subsidized enough to run races, gamblers will always participate in any market if there's a chance to profit enough for their investment in time. That hasn't been available for lower-variance win and place betting for a long time, give them a chance with a more viable alternative, and see what happens. Maybe it gets action, and maybe it doesn't.

[Hareeba!]

[QUOTE=indio;25691630]

Another discussion ruined when somebody feels the need to inject their political leanings on a non-political topic. Made all the more pathetic when it's done in a failed sarcastic tone of superiority by an Aussie who elected a clueless twit like Gillard and actually passed a law to tax carbon dioxide. That's right, a tax on the citizens and businesses for their use of an element of air, all to enrich a bunch of internationalist frauds. At least you all had the common sense to repeal that in 2014.

Please don't ever accuse me of having been a Gillard supporter!

[mtneer1212]

If I understand it correctly, It's essentially just a satellite for a pre-existing international exchange, which would essentially mean all it has to do is attract enough new money and fees to cover the cost of maintenance and operating expenses, which can't be all that much.

This will attract some players to bet and trade win and place markets which they cannot do currently. Nobody with an ounce of sense is going to put any liquid into a small pari-mutual like Emerald where they bet against their own money, a 17% hold, and breakage. It doesn't happen. But if you can get some international trading on those 6 horse fields of 4k claimers where you can secure a fixed price, you might get some activity. The pick3, superfecta, and other exotic pools will stay as the viable pari-mutual option for most horseplayers. Keep in mind, they are looking at getting a toe-hold in the American market, they don't need a whole lot of success in New Jersey to justify their operating expenses.

Horse racing is practically dead in the US, as most of its operating tracks are subsidized by racino's and governments. California track owners got their congressman to get them a $60 million a year payoff if online poker gets passed in CA. As long as these dumps are being subsidized enough to run races, gamblers will always participate in any market if there's a chance to profit enough for their investment in time. That hasn't been available for lower-variance win and place betting for a long time, give them a chance with a more viable alternative, and see what happens. Maybe it gets action, and maybe it doesn't.

Do you really believe that the 7th race at Emerald Downs a field of seven low-level Maiden Claimers will suddenly have action because of exchange wagering? I just don't see it.

[Optional]

Do you really believe that the 7th race at Emerald Downs a field of seven low-level Maiden Claimers will suddenly have action because of exchange wagering? I just don't see it.

If they offer in-race betting then 3 donkeys and a burrow running across death valley would get action on an exchange

There are many ways to approach an exchange for betting that aren't obvious at first. There will be people trading on markets in ways you just havent thought about yet and this will supply the underlying liquidity much of the time.

Love or hate the idea now, if you are a serious horse bettor the smartest thing you can do is join and get straight onto Betfair asking when they are running free training courses. So you can find out for yourself if it will work for you really. Jumping in armed with info whilst the new fish are learning will be +EV too

[Grivas_Digeni]

For as long as 'VPN' is needed to participate, liquidity will be low and the whole idea kind of useless. To me it's crazy that major governments can make a concerted effort to embargo North Korea, Cuba or Russia... but noone can think of a better way to feed their resident gamblers' addiction than a) outlaw online bookmakers with decent prices who refuse to pay draconian license fees and b) charge 30% vig on sports or 80% on state lottery?

[Foxx]

For as long as 'VPN' is needed to participate, liquidity will be low and the whole idea kind of useless. To me it's crazy that major governments can make a concerted effort to embargo North Korea, Cuba or Russia... but noone can think of a better way to feed their resident gamblers' addiction than a) outlaw online bookmakers with decent prices who refuse to pay draconian license fees and b) charge 30% vig on sports or 80% on state lottery?

I think you missed the point. Residents of New Jersey can now legally bet USA racing on Betfair exchange and it supposedly goes online today. They don't need a vpn.

[sheepgotwool]

Anyone know the name of the website for this ?

[Foxx]

Anyone know the name of the website for this ?

https://exchange.us.betfair.com/#/

[sportsbooklover]

If you live in New Jersey, You need to open an exchange betting account with Betfair at http://www.njbetfair.com

I got a $200 bonus when i deposited $200 (i think right now they are actually giving out $500 for new accounts at NJbetfair.com). I been a horse player for years. I am in love with the exchange. I will never go back to traditional betting horses anymore.On average the exchange wagering pays 20% higher than track prices

why would anyone bet at the track anymore? Exchange wagering with BETFAIRUSA Horse racing is the best. You control the odds. Liquidity no issue. Takeout is much smaller than track. And you can bet for or bet against horses! Basically you are the bookmaker! Exchange wagering in the state of NJ is the best thing that has happened to the horse racing industry. Betting on the exchange is a lot of fun and is very profitable as you can easily get a lot of free bets on house money with the line movements. Odds change back and forth and before the race even runs you can cashout for a profit if you your horse goes up or down in odds depending if you backed or laid him.
BTW, if you follow BETFAIRUSA on twitter they give free picks out on certain days. Who - ever does their Twitter account picks has a huge ROI. Follow them on Twitter. Been following picks for a few weeks now and been on a tear.

Also if you are not familiar with exchange betting they will offer 1 on 1 training. Email betfairnewjersey@gmail.com as they set me up in the beginning with personal training on the exchange. Also email them for the $500 bonus if you are new account.

I am 58 years old and did not have a clue. After 2 days of training, I was ready to go.

I am in love with BETFAIR!

Anyone in NJ needs to open an account!

[Optional]

I am 58 years old and did not have a clue. After 2 days of training, I was ready to go.

If you are sharp you will get yourself to one of these courses ASAP.

With NJ having a pool of totally new exchange bettors it will be like the beginning of the poker boom when most of the crowd are fish and those best informed can make early profits.

[jjgold]

pools are DEAD

[sweep]

still cant find any jersey books that take horses....wonder why that is???

[Shifty]

Will Hill had horse matchups on Haskell Day. That's all I've seen. That state probably doesn't allow more than that.

[Optional]

Did this fail?

Only see a casino on http://www.njbetfair.com/



Have to say, reading back on the thread, my opinion has changed in the last two years.

Exchange betting has noticeably declined since then I think.

Since PaddyPower took over I guess.