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they will never win a title. by next season wade will be getting injured and missing big parts of the season.
lebron is just making excuses to respond to the critics who say he chokesComment -
I'm not even a Celtics fan but let me get this straight. You're latching onto one moment in PP's career. A guy Lebron wishes he had 1/10th of his heart and yet no mention is made of the drama queens out in Miami that flop like they studied in the soccer academies of Europe? Or in defense of the same LeBron who quit on his team back in Cleveland against the Celtics?Comment -
Originally posted by crustymein fact, mri showed it was nothing.
he shouldve received an oscar for that "performance."
just idiot celtic homers like him trying to hype it like it was roy hobbs or willis reed.Sigh. Talk about blind leading the blind.Originally posted by jsmithj88
MRIs primarily see ACL and PCL injuries, and even then only about 90% of ACL tears are seen in an MRI, with MCL tears being a much lower percentage. Torn knee ligaments are diagnosed primarily through the physician hearing how the injury occurred, feeling around the knee, and using different exercises/stretches to test how the ligaments respond to various movements. Once the physician feels they know what the injury is, they get the MRI to check for damage to the ACL/PCL and to try to pinpoint where the MCL tear occurred and just how severely, if possible. Grade 1 and 2 MCL tears would most likely not show up on an MRI, and have recovery times of 2-8 weeks. They are not hard to diagnose.
Surgery is usually not recommended for MCL injuries unless the ACL was torn as well, there is enough time in the season for a return post-op, or it is a Grade 3 tear with Grade 2+ or 3+ laxity, in which case surgery may be recommended.
" Long-term studies of the most severe category of MCL injuries are needed to define the best treatment. Nonetheless, most medial-sided injuries are best treated nonoperatively, with proven great success." (From link below)
Here's a good article that I read for school last semester, that should explain it all more thoroughly if you're willing to learn a few things-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1888587/
Cliffs-
MRI not needed for MCL injury diagnosis
No surgery needed unless there is damage to other ligaments or it is a very severe tear
PS, crustyboy- your link claiming a negative MRI actually just says that there was no long term damage and that he wouldn't be affected going into the next season. Hint- that just means the ACL was fine
Sincerely,
3rd year Physical Therapy student with almost 1400 clinical hours logged
Nice try though
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Originally posted by rsnnh12Sigh. Talk about blind leading the blind.
MRIs primarily see ACL and PCL injuries, and even then only about 90% of ACL tears are seen in an MRI, with MCL tears being a much lower percentage. Torn knee ligaments are diagnosed primarily through the physician hearing how the injury occurred, feeling around the knee, and using different exercises/stretches to test how the ligaments respond to various movements. Once the physician feels they know what the injury is, they get the MRI to check for damage to the ACL/PCL and to try to pinpoint where the MCL tear occurred and just how severely, if possible. Grade 1 and 2 MCL tears would most likely not show up on an MRI, and have recovery times of 2-8 weeks. They are not hard to diagnose.
Surgery is usually not recommended for MCL injuries unless the ACL was torn as well, there is enough time in the season for a return post-op, or it is a Grade 3 tear with Grade 2+ or 3+ laxity, in which case surgery may be recommended.
" Long-term studies of the most severe category of MCL injuries are needed to define the best treatment. Nonetheless, most medial-sided injuries are best treated nonoperatively, with proven great success." (From link below)
Here's a good article that I read for school last semester, that should explain it all more thoroughly if you're willing to learn a few things-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1888587/
Cliffs-
MRI not needed for MCL injury diagnosis
No surgery needed unless there is damage to other ligaments or it is a very severe tear
PS, crustyboy- your link claiming a negative MRI actually just says that there was no long term damage and that he wouldn't be affected going into the next season. Hint- that just means the ACL was fine
Sincerely,
3rd year Physical Therapy student with almost 1400 clinical hours logged
Nice try though
what's funny is a masseuse thinking he knows more than orthopaedic surgeons and thinks he's qualified to order an mri or not.
tests doctors usually performs when a knee ligament tear is suspected are called the "lachman test" and the "valgus stress test".... surprised that a masseuse did not know this. these were the tests my doctor performed when he diagnosed my acl tear.
since these tests are accurate and reliable in diagnosing acl & mcl tears, the team doctor immediately cleared him to play because they found no tears and no instability of the knee. they even told him it was, at worst, a partially torn meniscus tear and not the much more serious ligament tear.
had he suffered a torn mcl, even partially, he would have been sidelined 2 months just like zack randolph was when he partially tore his mcl in january. no doctor would ever recommend continue playing with a partially torn mcl. so what you're suggesting is that the celtics doctor should be charged with unethical conduct by hiding the fact he had a torn mcl and instead told him it was a partially torn meniscus, which is much less serious and does not necessarily require rest.
although mri was not required, since the two above tests are so accurate and reliable, it was performed on pierce soon after the finals ended. and it proved what all of us already knew.... the "mcl tear" was actually a sprained knee no worse than a sprained ankle. if you believe this puts pierce on the level of willis reed, who actually suffered a serious injury, then you're a bigger moron than everyone believes you are.
stick to what you know best, giving men massages. i heard john travolta gives good tips especially if you give him a happy ending.
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Lebron is the biggest cry baby in the league.
What about when he got knicked in the eye against the knicks, he ran around the court for five minutes making faces like he was performing a "just got shot in the face scene" for miami vice.
His attitude is what makes him such a loser. If he acted differently no one would be talking shit.
Paul pierce stuck with these celtics when they were terrible, and he had to play 40 minutes a night every night and take every shot, just for them to feel remotely in the game.
So they overdid the scene a little when he went down, but like the doc said, im sure he was legitemately worried about how bad it was. Some times these guys go down for a rolled ankle and look like they are out for the season and are back shortly. Some injuries hurt even thought they are less severe.Comment -
Old time hoop fans check out the "Russell and Chamberlain" book. Sorry don't have the actual title. 100's of hilariious anecdotes from the 50's and 60's. One was about a game involving Cowens (Russell coaching?). He gets called for 2 cheesy fouls and complains to the ref. Next time down the floor he picks out some innocent opponent who happens to me standing near the ref. He forearms the guy into the stands and yells at the ref "Now that's a foul". Good read if you can find it.Originally posted by Cuse0323Comment -
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The biggest troll on SBR trying to talk shit about physical therapists and doctorates. Hysterical, but not surprising. So because ZBo was out for 2 months with an MCL injury, Pierce should have been too? You're absolutely clueless. Every injury, and everyones individual response to those injuries, will be different. A few weeks of rest is recommended for a grade 2 tear... with painkillers and adrenaline, its certainly not unreasonable for him to finish the series, especially knowing that months of rest await. If you had actually read the link, you would have seen that it was written by 4 orthopaedic surgeons, genius. So much for that "proof of MCL reconstruction" that you requested earlier, huh?Originally posted by crustymewhat's funny is a masseuse thinking he knows more than orthopaedic surgeons and thinks he's qualified to order an mri or not.
tests doctors usually performs when a knee ligament tear is suspected are called the "lachman test" and the "valgus stress test".... surprised that a masseuse did not know this. these were the tests my doctor performed when he diagnosed my acl tear.
since these tests are accurate and reliable in diagnosing acl & mcl tears, the team doctor immediately cleared him to play because they found no tears and no instability of the knee. they even told him it was, at worst, a partially torn meniscus tear and not the much more serious ligament tear.
had he suffered a torn mcl, even partially, he would have been sidelined 2 months just like zack randolph was when he partially tore his mcl in january. no doctor would ever recommend continue playing with a partially torn mcl. so what you're suggesting is that the celtics doctor should be charged with unethical conduct by hiding the fact he had a torn mcl and instead told him it was a partially torn meniscus, which is much less serious and does not necessarily require rest.
although mri was not required, since the two above tests are so accurate and reliable, it was performed on pierce soon after the finals ended. and it proved what all of us already knew.... the "mcl tear" was actually a sprained knee no worse than a sprained ankle. if you believe this puts pierce on the level of willis reed, who actually suffered a serious injury, then you're a bigger moron than everyone believes you are.
stick to what you know best, giving men massages. i heard john travolta gives good tips especially if you give him a happy ending.
When did I ever compare this to Willis Reed? Pierce isn't seen as a hero for returning to the game/series, but it was definitely impressive and a big reason why they won. Pierce has always been a drama queen, but this incident and the stabbing certainly prove he's tough, despite what mental midgets like you think.
The team doctor who treated him said it was the MCL... I think he's a pretty good source compared to you crustyboy
PS- ordering scans will be part of regular physical therapy work in the very near future... keep laughing though
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sounds like a case of the pussy foot to meComment -
paul pierce hating is absurd....sure maybe the wheelchair thing was over the top....but the guy is as good as they come...and hes toughComment -
Detroit Lions safety Louis Delmas recently underwent surgery on his right knee and did not travel with the team to Oakland for Sunday's 28-27 victory, Lions coach Jim Schwartz confirmed after the game.Originally posted by rsnnh12BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The biggest troll on SBR trying to talk shit about physical therapists and doctorates. Hysterical, but not surprising. So because ZBo was out for 2 months with an MCL injury, Pierce should have been too? You're absolutely clueless. Every injury, and everyones individual response to those injuries, will be different. A few weeks of rest is recommended for a grade 2 tear... with painkillers and adrenaline, its certainly not unreasonable for him to finish the series, especially knowing that months of rest await. If you had actually read the link, you would have seen that it was written by 4 orthopaedic surgeons, genius. So much for that "proof of MCL reconstruction" that you requested earlier, huh?
When did I ever compare this to Willis Reed? Pierce isn't seen as a hero for returning to the game/series, but it was definitely impressive and a big reason why they won. Pierce has always been a drama queen, but this incident and the stabbing certainly prove he's tough, despite what mental midgets like you think.
The team doctor who treated him said it was the MCL... I think he's a pretty good source compared to you crustyboy
PS- ordering scans will be part of regular physical therapy work in the very near future... keep laughing though
Schwartz said Delmas had "a minor scope" and is "day to day." Delmas has missed three straight games with a Grade 2 MCL tear he suffered in the loss to Green Bay on Thanksgiving Day.
but surgeries never happen for mcl tears, right?.... what a moron.
even a masseuse like you have already conceded that mcl tear requires min 1 week REST. what rest did pierce get when he played every single game for 2 weeks? do you even know continuing to play with an injury like that exposes them to further damage such as complete tear of mcl, tear of acl, pcl and meniscus? of course not, you're a clueless masseuse.
doc rivers said during the 2008 finals that if he knew pierce was injured, he wouldn't let him play and risk further injury which means he was cleared to play by the team doctors. funny how pierce wasn't aware that he had a "torn mcl" when questioned by reporters... he was told he had just a "sprain knee" and possibly a "partially torn meniscus." so which is it, did the doctor lie to him so he can help them win a title (and risk losing his medical license) or it wasn't a big deal as big a deal as you morons try to make it out to be? of course, mri confirmed the latter.
so pierce is 10 times the man zack randolph is since he got 0 weeks rest compared to 10 weeks for randolph? funny how pierce is the only nba player to have ever continued playing with a torn mcl, not only in the same game but 5 subsequent games without missing a beat. he's super human, i tell yas.
you're so delusional, it's funny. you think massaging men is the same as performing orthopaedic surgery. but that's expected from a moron who thinks cheney had no connections to haliburton when he gifted them a $7 billion war contract (while receiving a salary from them as vice president) and bush not being warned of the 9/11 attacks even though he was warned about hijackings and bombings in nyc.
only on sbr can a masseuse pretend to be an orthopaedic surgeon. the only future for you massaging john travolta.
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Pure haters in this world.Comment -
here's a real orthopaedic surgeon talking about mcl reconstruction... which according to the masseuse doesn't exist.
MCL Reconstruction
The most common knee ligament injury is an injury to the medial aspect of the knee. There are three main anatomic structures on the medial side of the knee, with the medial collateral ligament (MCL) being the largest and strongest. A large number of isolated MCL medial knee injuries are due to sporting events. They can be either a contact or non-contact stress to the outside of their knee, which in turn stretches or tears the medial knee structures on the inside of the knee.
The grade of the medial knee injury is based upon the amount of tearing present and treatment options depend on the location of the tear and if other ligaments are concurrently injured. Dr. LaPrade will operate on patients who exhibit a grade III tear or higher. In addition, it is well recognized having any “looseness” of the medial knee structures can cause an ACL graft to fail. Thus, when there is a combined medial knee injury and ACL injury, it is important to make sure the MCL injury heals completely prior to the ACL reconstruction or it should be concurrently repaired or reconstructed.
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Crusty... you are literally the dumbest person on these forums. Its fukking absurd. I said in this damn thread (post 40) that surgeries for MCLs were used on Grade 3s, usually with 2+ or 3+ laxity (most severe), or if there is a chance an athlete can return to the field quicker. Both your Delmas example and what the surgeon said support that same exact thing, you dumb mother fukker. Your own sources are proving me right.
Was it SBR John or Lou that said you were the worst troll out there? Whichever one it was, they were dead on. Seriously, its amazing, how you can claim I said that MCLs never get surgery, when 10 posts ago I gave specific reasons as to why they would do one, and posted a lengthy paper by 4 orthopaedic surgeons who explained MCL injuries pretty extensively, as well as concluding that surgery was not needed in most MCL tears and that they've had great recoveries without surgery.
Simply amazing.Comment -
PS- Drew Brees played through a torn MCL recently. Here's his quote-
"In some cases I know players that have torn an MCL and been out for six weeks. In some cases it's four weeks. In some cases it's two. And sometimes you're able to fight through and play."
Every injury is different, crustyvajComment -
nice try, masseuse.Originally posted by rsnnh12
you claimed that "mcl reconstruction" does not exist and rest is all they require, yet i proved you are full of shit backed by a real orthopaedic surgeon. shows you not to trust a masseuse masquerating as an orthopaedist.
funny that not one of your "evidence" supports taking a few pills and continuing to play basketball with a torn mcl. not one. just a masseuse making up shit, desperately trying to win an argument he has already lost in an avalanche.
go do what you do best... massage john travolta's buttocks.
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Originally posted by rsnnh12
nice try masseuse.
brees had a "low-grade MCL sprain" which you've even admitted only needs a week of rest. well guess what? pro football players only play once every week, moron. so he got a week of rest after each game, something not afforded to pierce. not to mention a qb stands in the pocket and throws. a basketball player is completely different. they have to run, pivot, jump and put much more pressure on their legs, which is why you'll never see an nba player continue to play with a torn mcl. which is why you're unable to find any nba player playing with a torn mcl.
go massage john travolta's buttocks.
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Paul Pierce wasnt hurt in the first place. That Sob is the biggest flopper in the NBA period.Comment -
Please quote my post where I said MCL reconstruction doesn't exist... I'll waitOriginally posted by crustymenice try, masseuse.
you claimed that "mcl reconstruction" does not exist and rest is all they require, yet i proved you are full of shit backed by a real orthopaedic surgeon. shows you not to trust a masseuse masquerating as an orthopaedist.
funny that not one of your "evidence" supports taking a few pills and continuing to play basketball with a torn mcl. not one. just a masseuse making up shit, desperately trying to win an argument he has already lost in an avalanche.
go do what you do best... massage john travolta's buttocks.
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