Who is worse? The tax evader or the lifelong entitlement recipient?

[TheCentaur]

A lot of people in here hate the second category but belong in the first category. Who is worse from an ethical point of view, and then from an economic point of view?

[TheCentaur]

Epic fail thread
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[King Mayan]

Both are scumbags.

[sideloaded]

the government is the worst

[katstale]

The gov created both, although the former can sometimes be considered a patriot for attempting to withhold blood from Vlad.

[big0mar]

90% of people that receive entitlements are elderly, disabled, or currently employed.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

the thing i don't understand is when my business fails, i have to file for bankruptcy and get destroyed for years. but when big banks and corporations fail, they get bailed out with the tax payers money and the executives even get bonuses for having failed businesses. yeah some will say the rich pay more taxes and they are just getting their own money back, well the reason why they got fuckin rich in the first place is by bamboozling the middle class.

if you have time to contemplate why don't you start by studying the history starting with the federal reserve act of 1913 all the way up to emergency economic stabilization act of 2008. and see how the bankers run the white house...

[BrentCrude]

Jesus,go and F the hell anyone you want financially and it will be par for the course.How many people are actually in the free market producing anything?It's nothing but socialist cronies sucking off the government-tax payer teet and you are going to feel guilty not paying gambling taxes???WTF!!!!!!!It's over man,it's each person for themselves,the USA is a sinking Titanic.None of that women and children first crap,it's survival of the fittest.It's none of that patriotic,collectivist national socialism,we,us and ours bologna.Why should the little guy who never took a thing from the government-tax payer have to go down with the ship.Don't be a sucker!!!!!I'm hearing Herman Cain right now telling everyone they have to pay a VAT sales tax to be good americans.F him and the wagon he rode in on.Tell Cain to go and collect money from all the establishment socialist government using cronies to pay up.

Just today it said that GM employees will receive 7 grand bonus checks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WTF,it's tax payer-government owned.In the free market capitalist system,these union thugs wouldn't even have a job.These thugs didn't earn a 7 grand bonus.They are parasites on welfare.

[TheCentaur]

90% of people that receive entitlements are elderly, disabled, or currently employed.

I feel this post is very misleading.

Elderly had their whole life to plan for retirement. Sounds harsh though
Disability is among the most fraudulent claims
Saying someone is employed implies they worked for and deserve entitlements

[ACoochy]

Op looks as though those kneepads sbr bought u r doing the job pal :thumbsup:

[seaborneq]

The Rich and Poor can cheat on their taxes if they choose to. Now how fair and random are the audits? That is a question for another day. The entitlement segment is really not a problem, it is when you deceive to get the entitlements that create the problem. I am sure no one would begrudge a parent with an autistic, special needs, or handicapped child receiving ANY benefits, but "crazy checks" give me a break.

[TheCentaur]

Op looks as though those kneepads sbr bought u r doing the job pal :thumbsup:

Thanks for posting in the thread, but maybe just have a civil discussion instead of insulting when your liberal feelings are hurt
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[ACoochy]

Cenny i would bother with a respose containing rationale but i can see it would be lost on u. Nothing wrong with being Walkers political puppet, is there?? :confused:

[Iced]

The entitlement recipient is clearly worse.

Evading taxes is simply keeping the money you earned, what right does the government have to steal it?

[TheCentaur]

Cenny i would bother with a respose containing rationale but i can see it would be lost on u. Nothing wrong with being Walkers political puppet, is there?? :confused:

Cmon give me a chance. If I didn't think there were other reasonable points of view I would have just titled the thread "lifelong entitlement receivers suck" or something like that.

[agharah1]

The entitlement recipient is clearly worse.

Evading taxes is simply keeping the money you earned, what right does the government have to steal it?

Tax evasion is obtaining a benefit you did not earn. That is stealing. If a repo man rolled up to your front door and told you he was going to repo your car since you didn't make payments for over 6 months what do you think he's going to do if you start spouting some bs about "keeping more of your own money?"

I'm sure you think you deserve to not pay your taxes. You probably also think you deserve to drive faster than the posted speed limit. You might even think you deserve to murder 3 people without consequence. Rules are rules, and whether you think you deserve to not have to abide by them is totally and completely irrelevant.

[Hotdiggity11]

The entitlement recipient is clearly worse.

Evading taxes is simply keeping the money you earned, what right does the government have to steal it?

Taxation is part of the constitutional powers of the government. Nothing "stealing" about it.

[ACoochy]

Cenny y do u have more of a problem with individuals who take from the system yet I hear no mention from u of how banks can hold ur country to ransom after kicking the financial crap out of it for trillions only 4 those such as yourself to bendover and ask if the fiscal stimulus is far enough up ur clacker. . Remember, its ur generation and ur childrens generation that will be paying for multinational corporate greed..

Only thing that taught me was every person for themself

[QuantumLeap]

Taxation is part of the constitutional powers of the government. Nothing "stealing" about it.

Income tax is not in the Constitution.

[TheCentaur]

Cenny y do u have more of a problem with individuals who take from the system yet I hear no mention from u of how banks can hold ur country to ransom after kicking the financial crap out of it for trillions only 4 those such as yourself to bendover and ask if the fiscal stimulus is far enough up ur clacker. . Remember, its ur generation and ur childrens generation that will be paying for multinational corporate greed..

The big banks' behavior bothers me too, and I have made some posts about it but you may have missed them.

Well, I haven't bet on any of their games so I'm not looking for excuses. I trust the NBA about as much as the big banks to do the right thing though.

I think seeing so many people relying on gov. entitlements, plus seeing big corporations get bailed out, makes the average citizen more likely to cheat on taxes/get paid under the table than previously.

[d2bets]

Income tax is not in the Constitution.

16th amendment: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

[Carseller4]

Most people give up their time or offer their skill for income. This results in a zero sum gain. How does the government get away with taxing an even trade off. There is no gain...something must be given up for an income to happen. Net Gain is zero.

[willyback]

Tax Cheats and Lifetime Entitlement Benefit Recipients are one in the same. They are commonly called 'Rich People' -LOL.

The US tax code has been successfully legislated to benefit America's wealthiest people with tax loopholes, subsidies and holidays galore. You'd be an idiot to pay your taxes.

With government entitlements the country hands out endless amounts of Corporate Welfare, Government Enforced Mandates to Purchase Privately Owned Products (like home and car insurance), government subsides to further Develop Privately Owned Businesses (like Citi Field, Yankee Stadium, Geico's new state-of-the-art call center in BUffalo, NY), TARP for Wall Street, Term Auction Facilities for Wall Street, 60 to 70 percent Government Backed Guarantees on Private Sector Originated Loans (like high interest loans for college students)...

It's all bullshit... Ronald Reagan's talk of 'welfare queens' back in 1976 was merely a clever, PR-ready diversion from the real abusers of government entitlement programs (to the tune of trillions in unnecessary government expenditures).

That's my two cents.

[QuantumLeap]

16th amendment: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

I'll be damned!



Upon reading further (if you can believe Wikipedia) the 16th Amendment didn't give the power to tax incomes. That was given by Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution.

"Although the Sixteenth Amendment is often cited as the "source" of the Congressional power to tax incomes, at least one court has reiterated the point made in Brushaber and other cases that the Sixteenth Amendment itself did not grant the Congress the power to tax incomes, a power the Congress had since 1789, but only removed the possible requirement that any income tax be apportioned among the states according to their respective populations. In the Penn Mutual Indemnity case, the United States Tax Court stated:<sup id="cite_ref-32" class="reference">[33]</sup>

In dealing with the scope of the taxing power the question has sometimes been framed in terms of whether something can be taxed as income under the Sixteenth Amendment. This is an inaccurate formulation... and has led to much loose thinking on the subject. The source of the taxing power is not the Sixteenth Amendment; it is Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution."

[ACoochy]

The big banks' behavior bothers me too, and I have made some posts about it but you may have missed them.

Cenny, what do you value more, freedom or a paycheck??

[Shaudius]

The only real lifetime entitlement recipients I know of are the permanently disabled from childhood. TANF(the current name for what most people know as welfare) has a cap of 60 months of benefits. Title 2 Social Security(what most people think of as Social Security) requires you to pay into the system, i.e. work first before you can draw its benefit. Title 16, otherwise known as SSI is for the disabled and has strict income and asset limits(and unless you got it since you were born you're not a lifetime recipient). WIC only works while you have infant children, food stamps(otherwise known as SNAP) have requirements as well, although I guess not a duration one, so maybe those could be lifelong.

I mean I guess you could be talking about Section 8 housing? But that's free housing, its only reduced rent. So while its an entitlement, its not a free lunch, you still need to find some source of income to pay the difference. Same with public housing projects.

Are there too many people surviving on these things? Absolutely. People should be getting a hand-up not a hand-out if anything, but the cycle of poverty in this country is staggering. The inner city school systems are worse than the suburban ones, the culture of the inner city is terrible(with regard to how education is valued mostly). But no proposal I've seen from either side really addresses the root causes of the problems.

The democrats want to spend the money and perpetuate the system, the Republicans want to cut off the spiket without regard for the consequences. All drug testing "welfare" recipients will do is to force them off the roles and into prison when they can't afford to eat anymore. How does that help society? It doesn't stop people from having babies they can't afford, and it doesn't stop crime or any other societal ill. Cutting out the safety net won't solve societies problems, but neither will throwing money at the problem, it's the ultimate catch-22.

[Iced]

Tax evasion is obtaining a benefit you did not earn. That is stealing. If a repo man rolled up to your front door and told you he was going to repo your car since you didn't make payments for over 6 months what do you think he's going to do if you start spouting some bs about "keeping more of your own money?"

I'm sure you think you deserve to not pay your taxes. You probably also think you deserve to drive faster than the posted speed limit. You might even think you deserve to murder 3 people without consequence. Rules are rules, and whether you think you deserve to not have to abide by them is totally and completely irrelevant.

This isn't even coherent. "[Keeping money you earned] is obtaining a benefit you did not earn" is your argument. Ha.

[Iced]

Taxation is part of the constitutional powers of the government. Nothing "stealing" about it.

Yup. And killing Jews was in the constitutional powers of the Nazi government. That doesn't make it right.

[andywend]

Rules are rules, and whether you think you deserve to not have to abide by them is totally and completely irrelevant.

Taxation is part of the constitutional powers of the government. Nothing "stealing" about it.

Slavery was the law of the land as well for the first 90 years of our country's history.

The Agarah's, hotdiggity's, D2Bets, etc are liberals who pay very little by way of income taxes so they will ALWAYS support the party that believes in raising taxes on those who do pay them. That party will always be the democratic party.

These same hypocritical liberal scumbags would sing an entirely different tune if the government figured out a way for these bums to pay their "fair share" of the tax burden. Unfortunately, liberals like the above will always be in the bottom 50% so they will NEVER pay any meaningful amount of taxes themselves.

Yup. And killing Jews was in the constitutional powers of the Nazi government. That doesn't make it right.

Another great example Iced.

The only thing that will save the U.S. is if we make drastic changes regarding the voting process and make the rules more in line with what our founding forefathers intended.

As long as the life-long welfare collector living in Watts has the same voting power as someone who pays $10 million annually in federal income taxes, things are only going to get worse for the U.S.<!-- / message --><!-- / message -->

[bswagos]

There wouldn't be so many taxes to evade if there weren't so many people on the government dole.

[d2bets]

Slavery was the law of the land as well for the first 90 years of our country's history.

The Agarah's, hotdiggity's, D2Bets, etc are liberals who pay very little by way of income taxes so they will ALWAYS support the party that believes in raising taxes on those who do pay them. That party will always be the democratic party.

These same hypocritical liberal scumbags would sing an entirely different tune if the government figured out a way for these bums to pay their "fair share" of the tax burden. Unfortunately, liberals like the above will always be in the bottom 50% so they will NEVER pay any meaningful amount of taxes themselves.Another great example Iced.

The only thing that will save the U.S. is if we make drastic changes regarding the voting process and make the rules more in line with what our founding forefathers intended.

As long as the life-long welfare collector living in Watts has the same voting power as someone who pays $10 million annually in federal income taxes, things are only going to get worse for the U.S.<!-- / message --><!-- / message -->

Such nonsense. A very high percentage of the ultra high earners favor a more progressive income tax and higher tax on the top earners. Take a look at which states and what education levels support Republicans. Lower wage earning states and lower education individuals support Republicans at a higher rate. Your assumptions are just that, assumptions, and not based on reality.

[the_orangekat]

They are both scum in my book.

[rkelly110]

O King Andy.

Because you pay more taxes, makes you better than us? Makes your vote better than ours?
Old people aren't allowed to vote, because they're getting SS even tho they paid in all their lives?
The welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote, because they don't pay taxes?

When you get to retirement age and start getting SS, will you stop voting?

We already showed you in the constitution, everyone has the right to vote.

If only land owners and the rich were allowed to vote, guess who the elected officials
would be for? You guessed it, the rich, like themselves. Sounds like the Republican
party doesn't it?

Guess what big shot, you put your pants on the same as everyone else, you are going
to die and not take it with you, like everyone else. Get over yourself.

[betplom]

90% of people that receive entitlements are elderly, disabled, or currently employed.

I agree, elderly and disabled people are scum.

America can do without these kind of people.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Aren't 99% of the people here tax evaders?

I honestly wouldn't mind paying taxes on my winnings, but it'd be too much work to write off all the losses.