**let's take a REAL sbr vote for republican nomination

Iced · 01-21-12, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Glitch

yawn. i have read your post in its entirety and you havent answered my question sufficiently: -if these programs are so inefficient and cost-defective- why would the solution not be to adjust these oversight standard groups into something less bureaucratic and more productive???

I already told you. Bureaucracy is inherently inefficient, and the vast majority of bureaucracy should be done away with regardless of their efficiency. The Departments of Defense and Justice are the only departments somewhat worth keeping -- the rest of them are a drain on society.

sweethook · 01-21-12, 01:53 PM

i voted for ron today in real life , the turn out here is so poor no one gives a sht cas the rich sob's have cut our ass and stole so much from the usa tax payers , and pumped lipstick all in the dam army . rick s wants to triple the free money to people to have more kids. and i got a date tonight with a woman outa savannah georgia trying to tell me who to vote for. and its not newt

RonPaul2008 · 01-21-12, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

d2bets, i'll let you out of our heat vs bulls bet at breakeven if you want.
you're up 2 in the loss column, but rose's toe might be a recurring problem after he eventually comes back.

I'm going to at the Bulls vs Heat game next Sunday.
The Bulls are the best team in the NBA, D2 isn't going to let you out of that losing bet.

milwaukee mike · 01-21-12, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by RonPaul2008

I'm going to at the Bulls vs Heat game next Sunday.
The Bulls are the best team in the NBA, D2 isn't going to let you out of that losing bet.

come on man

just because the bulls hold a bunch of crappy teams to less than 80 points doesn't necessarily mean they're better than the heat. so far the bulls have the 23rd toughest schedule out of 30 teams, let's wait and see what happens - should be a fun season.

mighty maron · 01-21-12, 02:59 PM

Who that plays online poker in the USA would ever vote for a republican after the UIGEA and attempted SOPA?

d2bets · 01-21-12, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

come on man

just because the bulls hold a bunch of crappy teams to less than 80 points doesn't necessarily mean they're better than the heat. so far the bulls have the 23rd toughest schedule out of 30 teams, let's wait and see what happens - should be a fun season.

Not sure how you're rating schedules, but they've played 11 road games to 6 home games. Plus the Bulls and Lakers are the only teams to play 17 games already, but LA had 10 at home. 11 road games leads the NBA in the most road games. Grueling. Don't believe they've had one of the easier schedules.

And they lead Miami by 4 in the win column since they've played 3 more games and have had to play many more B2B and B2B2B so far.

Mikail · 01-21-12, 03:06 PM

I say Ron Paul and if you know anything about me then it's obvious why I think Dr. Ron is the best man for the job.

onetrickpony · 01-21-12, 03:10 PM

just voted for my boy ronny

Emily_Haines · 01-21-12, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Carseller4

Ron Paul wins EVERY online poll.

It's what he does.

If word gets out to the Ron Paul websites, SBR will be overrun with new one-time members.

Ever heard of vote rigging? How many times did the have to fuk up the count in the Iowa caucus? Ron Paul has the biggest crowds, gets the biggest cheers, has the most support in every poll but do to the blatant vote rigging he his second. If we had a fair vote and counted all ballots he would easily have 70-80% of the vote.

DwightShrute · 01-21-12, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by mighty maron

Who that plays online poker in the USA would ever vote for a republican after the UIGEA and attempted SOPA?

and the Democrats that could have repealed it since they came into power? You can vote for them?

guitarjosh · 01-21-12, 03:30 PM

Ron Paul is the only major party candidate I would vote for.

redsoxfreak91 · 01-21-12, 03:30 PM

You left out Herman Cain....Mr. Colbert is running for him.....

ABEHONEST · 01-21-12, 03:53 PM

The most intelligent posters are shining through! Not unexpected, though.
Go get'em Paul. Tear em' to a new ass!

dante1 · 01-21-12, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by DwightShrute

and the Democrats that could have repealed it since they came into power? You can vote for them?

D made an attempt to stop the legislation and also an attempt to repeal it Dwight, the R made sure they lost on both. No, you cant deny this, the R are completely responsible for the bill and destroying all attempts to repeal it. Be honest Dwight, it will keep you out of trouble.

DwightShrute · 01-21-12, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by dante1

D made an attempt to stop the legislation and also an attempt to repeal it Dwight, the R made sure they lost on both. No, you cant deny this, the R are completely responsible for the bill and destroying all attempts to repeal it. Be honest Dwight, it will keep you out of trouble.

ok, let's say you are right. In 2009 and 2010 when the democratic President controlled both the house and the senate? And in 2007, 2008 also? Hmmm. I wonder why they never repealed it.

Dirty Sanchez · 01-21-12, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

I love Ron Paul. Too bad he doesn't understand foreign policy. Even with those short comings he would be the best president ever except for Reagan. When he said basically 9/11 was our fault for antagonizing Al Quieda, well, I never took him serious again.

Ron Paul is 6 months away from hiding is own Easter Eggs....dude will be on the Greyhound Bus back to Texas soon. Unfortunately there are so many clowns on the GOP side it really doesn't matter who get's the nomination because they're killing each other on the way to the election.

Glitch · 01-21-12, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Iced

I already told you. Bureaucracy is inherently inefficient, and the vast majority of bureaucracy should be done away with regardless of their efficiency. The Departments of Defense and Justice are the only departments somewhat worth keeping -- the rest of them are a drain on society.

the question is "why is it 'inherently inefficient?'" what aspects make it so? if they are changeable then change them. or "why not change them? if this is as such and these variables are identifiable?"

this is the question. i specifically requested an answer other than "it is what it is."

Iced · 01-21-12, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Glitch

the question is "why is it 'inherently inefficient?'" what aspects make it so? if they are changeable then change them. or "why not change them? if this is as such and these variables are identifiable?"

this is the question. i specifically requested an answer other than "it is what it is."

There's no price mechanism or profit-and-loss system in central-economic planning (bureaucracies). Private companies provide services or goods to customers. To determine if the service or good is wanted and to what degree, a price is set. If the price is set too high or too low, the company will adjust the price so that the service or good sells profitably.

Example -- Amazon and Barnes & Noble have to price their goods (ie. books and e-readers) at competitive prices, or customers will buy their competitor's goods instead of theirs. Borders recently went out of business because it wasn't able to offer goods at competitive prices, and as a consequence, people weren't buying their goods. Amazon and B&N are still in business because they are profiting in the profit-and-loss system; Borders went out of business because they were operating at a loss in the profit-and-loss system.

Now, compare economic activity and calculation in the private sector to that of bureaucracies. First off, there is no price system. How is the bureaucracy supposed to know if consumers really want the service they are providing if their services aren't set a market price? The bureaucracy can stay "in business" regardless of the quality of services they provide, so there's no incentive to act efficiently and productive like companies in the private sector. The lack of a profit-and-loss system is another lacking part of bureaucracies. A company like Borders would still be alive if it were a bureaucracy, there's just no rational way of evaluating how productive a bureaucracy is behaving.

And I didn't even go into the incentive problem, which, imo, is probably the most devastating critique of socialist entities like bureaucracies.

jjgold · 01-21-12, 04:31 PM

can care less who Pres is as long as it is not the piece of shit Obama

jarvol · 01-21-12, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Glitch

do "a lot of us" feel that education, energy and "the interior" do not deserve strategic guidance and oversight, growth/ quality control plans, standards etc? i have been wondering this for a while.

What kind of fukkin "strategic guidance" has the Depts of Education, Energy, or Interior ever provided. Please be specific.

dante1 · 01-21-12, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Iced

There's no price mechanism or profit-and-loss system in central-economic planning (bureaucracies). Private companies provide services or goods to customers. To determine if the service or good is wanted and to what degree, a price is set. If the price is set too high or too low, the company will adjust the price so that the service or good sells profitably.

Example -- Amazon and Barnes & Noble have to price their goods (ie. books and e-readers) at competitive prices, or customers will buy their competitor's goods instead of theirs. Borders recently went out of business because it wasn't able to offer goods at competitive prices, and as a consequence, people weren't buying their goods. Amazon and B&N are still in business because they are profiting in the profit-and-loss system; Borders went out of business because they were operating at a loss in the profit-and-loss system.

Now, compare economic activity and calculation in the private sector to that of bureaucracies. First off, there is no price system. How is the bureaucracy supposed to know if consumers really want the service they are providing if their services aren't set a market price? The bureaucracy can stay "in business" regardless of the quality of services they provide, so there's no incentive to act efficiently and productive like companies in the private sector. The lack of a profit-and-loss system is another lacking part of bureaucracies. A company like Borders would still be alive if it were a bureaucracy, there's just no rational way of evaluating how productive a bureaucracy is behaving.

And I didn't even go into the incentive problem, which, imo, is probably the most devastating critique of socialist entities like bureaucracies.

This is the same argument that some economists have used for many decades to prove that socialism can't work. Students, usually sophomores sit and shake their head in agreement. And it does make sense, doesn't it. One problem how do you explain the many socialist like democracies where it does work. Countries with a higher standard of living, a more workable health system and most importantly people who say they are the happiest people in the world.
Hmmm!

milwaukee mike · 01-21-12, 05:30 PM

not much of a surprise who the people want as the republican nominee

tv talking heads tell us otherwise so the misinformed will probably vote for one of the candidates "that can win" instead of the candidate most people want who i guess "can't win" because we have such a wonderful democracy

opie1988 · 01-21-12, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

can care less who Pres is as long as it is not the piece of shit Obama

Ditto.

itchypickle · 01-21-12, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by jarvol

What kind of fukkin "strategic guidance" has the Depts of Education, Energy, or Interior ever provided. Please be specific.

Dept of Education has been the single best example of adverse selection of any industry EVER. Get the Federal govt out of the way or else it's a race to the bottom for our kids.....well for most...no way in hell I will put my little girl in the public schools.

dante1 · 01-21-12, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by itchypickle

Dept of Education has been the single best example of adverse selection of any industry EVER. Get the Federal govt out of the way or else it's a race to the bottom for our kids.....well for most...no way in hell I will put my little girl in the public schools.

Dept of Education is bs but it doesn't need to be it can be fixed and if fixed properly it will be an asset a huge asset in educating our kids. Here is the problem, right now the dept of education is not addressing the problem they are making it worse.
Thinking that testing and retesting and doing it over again is a solution is just crazy nonsense. Teachers teach for the test. It is garbage.

There is no argument that our kids are doing worse and worse in world testing. My God we are on or near the bottom. What is the problem, the dept of education of course not. The problem is the teaching itself is broken. Here is a first couple of common sense steps. Every year the same 5 or 6 countries are scoring in the top 10. Well what are they doing different than us. I will tell you, they are streamlining the teaching of math and science. They are teaching longer hours and they are eliminating some teaching that doesn't fit into this paradigm.

However, if you eliminate central guidance in education with every state and every district doing whatever they want that would lead to complete chaos even worse than we have now. We need a dept that would actually study these countries that are succeeding and follow their lead. This doesn't take rocket science.

We now spend semester after semester teaching fractions and basic arithmetic to our middle school kids. Guess what, these advanced scoring countries don't. They are teaching algebra and physics to their middle school kids. We are teaching arithmetic and earth science. That is the main problem, the kids can't learn advanced science and math if we aren't teaching it. Guidance from a dept of ed that has priorities correct would be an asset not a liability. Each state doing their own thing would only make thing worse--much worse. Dept of Education can be a very positive thing if some thought was given to emulating the best and getting rid of the crap.

dante1 · 01-21-12, 06:59 PM

Things need to really change in education if you truly want to see results. You need to pay your teachers more because this 9 month deal isn't working. The day must be longer and close to year around teaching made mandatory. This is difficult to do and it will cost money the alternative is the same garbage we are getting now. This is the US we should be solving problems, education is a problem. It can be fixed.

Math and science must be streamlined and heavily emphasized starting in the very early grades. Stop teaching garbage that isn't needed and get the very best teachers possible. Teachers should be getting advanced degrees in their field not in education which has basic bs courses. If you know your subject you know how to teach, a teacher doesn't need 15 different course on how to teach. Instead give your science teacher 15 advanced science courses. These are all common sense ideas, but are they being implemented. NO Bush had a a dept of education idea, only problem is it stinks.

milwaukee mike · 01-21-12, 10:22 PM

dante you can't teach dumb people advanced science and math, they just won't get it

when you let in a bunch of illegals that can't even speak english, and the people having more than 2 kids over the last couple generations are mostly on the lower end of the iq scale, how in the world do you think the country's scoring averages are going to go UP?

teaserpleaser · 01-21-12, 10:30 PM

Mike you' ve been reading up on LA unified school district? Illegals have made it to wisconsin?

PhillyFlyers · 01-21-12, 10:34 PM

BREAKING NEWS: SBR supports Ron Paul for President!

muldoon · 01-21-12, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by dante1

Thinking that testing and retesting and doing it over again is a solution is just crazy nonsense. Teachers teach for the test. It is garbage.

The whole "No Child Left Behind" which was based on the supposed success in Houston, which turned out to be a big fraud.

Page not found - Rethinking Schools

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/special_reports/bushplan/drop181.shtml

What NCLB gave America was a system where teachers not only "teach the test", but outright cheat for kids in order to bolster their own school standing.

Between NCLB and the current scam with the for-profit diploma mills, people really need to debate why the US needs to import engineers and scientists?

dante1 · 01-21-12, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

dante you can't teach dumb people advanced science and math, they just won't get it when you let in a bunch of illegals that can't even speak english, and the people having more than 2 kids over the last couple generations are mostly on the lower end of the iq scale, how in the world do you think the country's scoring averages are going to go UP?

Well maybe you are correct, the problem is we are not even trying to teach them under this system. To say our kids can't do it and just give up is not an option. We are not teaching the proper curriculum, we are teaching garbage to our young kids. At least let's try something different. Education in this country can improve with some minor and major changes. Status quo will continue to produce the same results.
Update the curriculum, give incentives to our best college students to teach science and math, pay our best teachers better, attempt everything possible to get parents really involved, if a teacher is proven deficient either help him/her or get rid of him/her. Get the community invested in schools, give PTA some real clout. Tons of stuff can be done. It starts with a improved Dept of Ed.

dante1 · 01-21-12, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by PhillyFlyers

BREAKING NEWS: SBR supports Ron Paul for President!

Not a big surprise here philly, we have a specific demographic here.

milwaukee mike · 01-22-12, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by dante1

Not a big surprise here philly, we have a specific demographic here.

i think every informed demographic, given those 4 choices, would have ron paul as the winner

he's an "internet phenom" because people on the internet do more research than the lemmings that get all their info from fox news etc

Salmon Steak · 01-23-12, 12:01 AM

I'm voting for Ron Paul. I wish he was a better communicator though. The age thing really doesn't bother me.

King Mayan · 01-23-12, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

dante you can't teach dumb people advanced science and math, they just won't get it

when you let in a bunch of illegals that can't even speak english, and the people having more than 2 kids over the last couple generations are mostly on the lower end of the iq scale, how in the world do you think the country's scoring averages are going to go UP?

Not speaking English makes you dumb

Mikey, you reading articles in the Internet don't make you smart lil guy..