I am thinking around 8X the BB has the biggest edge.
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8x? What kind of game are you talking about? Most games you can't even buyin that low...Comment -
NL Holdem, right most you can't because it gives you an edgeComment -
How do you figure that? That's ridiculous. More money gives you an edge, not less. That is virtually a universal fact.Comment -
you have an advantage because of the blinds and bets preflop that you can steal or win all in preflop.
Say you go all in with $5 AK vs 10/10 for you will lose money you bet 5 to win 5 once rake taken in
But if you bet a dollar you steal the BB/SB and another couple bets then maybe you bet $1 to win $1.25 and make a profit.
But it works best with multiple calls. Two guys call and one bets a flush draw, then you get a chance to triple upComment -
Now would I rather have 50X or 200X BB? I'd rather have 200Comment -
if you are off the blind it would be best to have a dollar when it is $1 blind, but you have to start with the blind and then that wipes out like $20% of your stack that is too muchComment -
some rooms let you go in low but seems only low limit tablesComment -
That is not an edge. You can still bet the same amount with a bigger stack and steal. You can then also bluff on the flop, turn, and river. You really need to read some poker books and teach yourself probability.Comment -
You can make money short stacking but it is less than a good player can make with a full buy in and the variance is going to be much higher... Online most short stackers suck but there are a few that know what they are doing and can take full advantage of the micro stake and show a profit...Originally posted by rm18
Also, no where that I know will let you buy in for less then 10BB... Fulltilt and pokerstars are both 20x but fulltilt will let you buy in for 10BB once you bust you stack... pokestars might be the same way but I'm not sure off the top of my head..Comment -
Would you like to be sitting in a 10-20 nl game in a casino withOriginally posted by rm18
$4,250 in front of you when a new player enters the game with $160?
Better question would you remain in the game?
There are minimums at tables to protect the tables from things such as this(live), not cause it's an edge.
Why would i play 10-20 nl with 1,2,3 etc players who are buying in for a $200
Are there places that you know that allow such buy-ins?
There could never be an edge cause you'd never find a game, and if by some miracle
you found such a game in the middle of nowhere that allowed such a buy-in, chances are the players wouldn't put up with itComment -
true poker and their sportsbooks 10X on .1/.2 and .2/.4, carnon and their books 5X on .05/.10 onlyOriginally posted by Al MastersWould you like to be sitting in a 10-20 nl game in a casino with
$4,250 in front of you when a new player enters the game with $160?
Better question would you remain in the game?
There are minimums at tables to protect the tables from things such as this(live), not cause it's an edge.
Why would i play 10-20 nl with 1,2,3 etc players who are buying in for a $200
Are there places that you know that allow such buy-ins?
There could never be an edge cause you'd never find a game, and if by some miracle
you found such a game in the middle of nowhere that allowed such a buy-in, chances are the players wouldn't put up with it
No I would not want to, might sit outComment -
Short stacks are always targets in big games. Pretty much implicitly the dead money at the table.Comment -
Short stacks do have an edge in no-limit against very deep stacks.
Here's a common scenario where it's a no-brainer to buy in for the min rather than the max:
Existing table exists, say, 1-2 NL. Min buy-in 60, max buy-in 300. There are 8 players sitting at the table. 5 of them have more than 300, and 3 of those have more than 1000. The players with the deep stacks are bullying the new players.
Best strategy for a new player sitting down in this situation is to buy in for $60, wait for premium hands, and push all-in pre-flop or when a hand is made on the flop. The odds will always be there for a bully to call, and it will generally be +ev for the short stack.
If you tried to play "normal" poker with a 300 stack in this scenario, the bigger stacks will either force you to commit or push you off every pot. Better to play tighter and more aggressive with a shorter stack.
This, IMHO, is why cash no-limit is an inferior game to cash limit games or tournament no-limit.Comment -
It really depends on your skill level deep stacked and the skill level of your opponents. You can basically be a pushbot with 8bb and take advantage of the deep stacked players around you making mistakes compared to your stack because they are taking shots at each others stacks. While NLTAP, by Ed Miller and Sklansky, has its flaws, it gets this one right IMO.Comment -
There is no advantage using 8x BB. The only reason I could see someone doing this is because thier short stack play is so much better than when they have alot of chips. Generally speaking, you want to sit down with about the table average. Now yes this may be impossible if you are a late sitting and the game is 300 max and you have guys on there that have 600-2000 grand on. However, blinds should still be 1-2 or at the very worst 3-5 and you will still have 300x BB or 150x BB. Which is plenty to work with.Originally posted by SBR_JohnComment -
I'm trying to figure this out. Are you saying it's better being short stacked because because you risk less? That's what it sounds like to me. I don't know how you expect to push someone off the pot with such a small bet so yes you might triple up or even more but your edge is compeletely gone. It's just a coin flip at that point even with AA if more than 1 call.Comment -
It is an advantage firstly because YOU can't be pushed off a hand and you're decisions are easier because you don't have any chips behind you to risk later in the hand... Most decisions are going to be push or fold and you only going to be playing premium hands to began with... On the other hand you aren't going to be able to call preflop raises with speculative hands as you are, obviously, getting virtually zero implied odds if you hit a big hand or draw...Originally posted by EddieJones
Playing short especially makes sense if you are inexperienced because your game play is incredible simplified... Most likely an experienced player would be better off playing a deep stack (speaking strictly about the amount won per hour, or per hand, without concern for variance) to be able to expand their "playbook" against other weaker opponents with deep stacks...Comment -
all depends online or live, game selection is huge, I think deep stack Nl 100-200 BB is the way I like to play, PLO I think short stacking is the best way for myself just depends what you like to do. I think how the game is playing is important to know if that is something you might know ahead of time.Comment -
Short stacking limits you severely. You give the big stacks odds to call, you cannot push out draws, and you severely decrease your profit potential. If you are a profitable player, there is no reason to short stack other than if you are beyond your bankroll...Comment -
I will allow guys to buy in short all day long against me, won't complain once about it. The only time I would recommend this "strategy" is if you're a new player with limited skills. Even then you aren't maximizing anything, you're just limiting what you will lose. In town there is a decades old NL game that runs similar to this, the old guns play deep while we have several dealers that buy in very short. I don't need to tell you who gets the money.....Comment -
This thread is awesome.Comment
