Longtime lurker, my take on Matchbook, and my view on the industry

[pico]

Lol im sorry I couldnt keep myself from responding to this. You keep a betting log! Betting on sports IS NOT ILLEGAL!! Why dont people understand this? You simply keep a log with a spreadsheet or some other form. Show them that you have all your wins and losses accounted for and that it adds up to the tally you made on your tax form. Presto! They are not going to ask anything else! There the IRS! They just want to collect taxes! They want their cut. They dont give a sh** where you got it. Al Capone was convicted on TAX EVASION. Pay your taxes and you have nothing to worry about.

i feel sorry for people who have to pay uncle sam. you're getting screwed by the books, now you have to pay the tax man. time to move to a free country.

have you ever gotten audited? you gamble but you want to play it safe...pretty self contradictory. paying tax is the same as betting +3000 prop bet of getting audited.

but hey, i don't pay US tax, so i really shouldn't be giving you US tax advises

[jjgold]

Matchbook will never appeal to public bettors
Matchbook is excellent though but you will never see heavy volume there

[pico]

No banks here in the rain forest.

The us gov't just indicted several people on tax fraud based on bank accounts in the Caribbean and Switzerland.

They can and will track your money anywhere. It's not that 1980's anymore.

No one would like to not pay taxes on gambling winnings than me -- especially since I don't even live in the United States. But, I've consulted with several professionals and taken their advice.

only if you're US resident. switzerland has special procedure for setting up account for US residents vs other residents for a couple of years now, so it is pretty stupid for US residents to open a swiss account for tax reasons.

if you're from the US...you're getting screwed 3 ways. 1) move money to and from books 2) tax 3) dollar

dorito, i find shoe box and safe deposit box better than banks.

[durito]

i don't live in a country where stashing cash in a shoe box is particularly good idea.

[pico]

i don't live in a country where stashing cash in a shoe box is particularly good idea.

you just need a big dog and some hired guns

[tschmitt87]

i feel sorry for people who have to pay uncle sam. you're getting screwed by the books, now you have to pay the tax man. time to move to a free country.

have you ever gotten audited? you gamble but you want to play it safe...pretty self contradictory. paying tax is the same as betting +3000 prop bet of getting audited.

but hey, i don't pay US tax, so i really shouldn't be giving you US tax advises

Lol im not getting screwed by the books because the only books that screw you are not considered the BEST in the business right now. Am I getting screwed by paying -105 vig or less? NO. Am I getting screwed by having free B2B transfers? NO. Am I getting screwed by having all of my expenses refunded to me? NO. Am I getting screwed by waiting a week for a check in the US environment right now? NO. Which is why I cant believe anybody plays with anything but the best. Paying taxes are a part of life and always will be. I honestly cant even fathom what this line means "you gamble but you want to play it safe". Lol im sorry but this line makes completely no sense. I gamble because I want to make money! You will not get audited for paying taxes on gambling income!! Vanzack posted a number about how many professional gamblers were filed in the past and they have no more of a chance of getting audited then the next john doe. Your not breaking the law and you have all of the money accounted for. Thats it. There is no better way of NOT getting audited. Mess something up like spending more than you made, then you my friend are a +3000 prop bet of getting audited. Its simple.

[tschmitt87]

Matchbook will never appeal to public bettors
Matchbook is excellent though but you will never see heavy volume there

Thanks for the post JJ. See you around more then anybody else on this board. I agree that right now MB doesnt really appeal to the public bettor but that is changing. It doesnt look as complicated as most exchanges look at first glance which is a plus. I disagree that you will never see heavy volume there. There is substantial volume there right now and it will continue to grow as people realize laying -110 is a thing of the past. In 2 years if the US envirnoment doesnt get much worse, MB will be HUGE. They are essintially replacing pinny when it comes to spreads, totals, and ml's. Give it some more time and I think you will eventually agree with me. Thanks for the input JJ. Best of Luck to you.

[pico]

Lol im not getting screwed by the books because the only books that screw you are not considered the BEST in the business right now. Am I getting screwed by paying -105 vig or less? NO. Am I getting screwed by having free B2B transfers? NO. Am I getting screwed by having all of my expenses refunded to me? NO. Am I getting screwed by waiting a week for a check in the US environment right now? NO. Which is why I cant believe anybody plays with anything but the best. Paying taxes are a part of life and always will be. I honestly cant even fathom what this line means "you gamble but you want to play it safe". Lol im sorry but this line makes completely no sense. I gamble because I want to make money! You will not get audited for paying taxes on gambling income!! Vanzack posted a number about how many professional gamblers were filed in the past and they have no more of a chance of getting audited then the next john doe. Your not breaking the law and you have all of the money accounted for. Thats it. There is no better way of NOT getting audited. Mess something up like spending more than you made, then you my friend are a +3000 prop bet of getting audited. Its simple.

ok, here is where you and me are different. i never consider myself a pro gambler. if you're then sure pay the tax man because this is your income.

if i make profit in the regulated market, then yes, i'll pay the tax man, but this is unregulated market...pretty much like playing craps in the projects. when the rival gang arrive, all the money are gone. just because it is a A book doesn't make them a legit trading platform. offshore books are not regulated by the US gov, why should you pay the tax man?

how come they can't process US credit cards? how come neteller won't process money from the US? how come there are several US banks refuse to send bankwire to certain books?

have you ever opened an brokerage account and being told by the bank no they will not send fund to your brokerage account?

sportsbetting is a low class hobby to start off with, you can glamorize it by making it legit, but in fact it is not. think of it this way, the leagues who regulate fair play are against betting. that should just tell you something. it is shady to startoff with, you don't have to make it sounds legit to make yourself feel better. bottom line is how much money you can make.

there is an old saying, you can't be a whore and a virgin at the same time.

[tschmitt87]

ok, here is where you and me are different. i never consider myself a pro gambler. if you're then sure pay the tax man because this is your income.

if i make profit in the regulated market, then yes, i'll pay the tax man, but this is unregulated market...pretty much like playing craps in the projects. when the rival gang arrive, all the money are gone. just because it is a A book doesn't make them a legit trading platform. offshore books are not regulated by the US gov, why should you pay the tax man?

how come they can't process US credit cards? how come neteller won't process money from the US? how come there are several US banks refuse to send bankwire to certain books?

have you ever opened an brokerage account and being told by the bank no they will not send fund to your brokerage account?

sportsbetting is a low class hobby to start off with, you can glamorize it by making it legit, but in fact it is not. think of it this way, the leagues who regulate fair play are against betting. that should just tell you something. it is shady to startoff with, you don't have to make it sounds legit to make yourself feel better. bottom line is how much money you can make.

there is an old saying, you can't be a whore and a virgin at the same time.

I can understand where you are coming from but I don't believe you are from the US and this is more strictly for the US players. If you are not in the US than by all means play at pinny. Play at Betfair. MB should still be an option for the non-US players as well though.

"just because it is a A book doesn't make them a legit trading platform. offshore books are not regulated by the US gov" If being an A such as the ones that I listed doesn't make them a legit trading platform than I don't know what does. Most of those, if not all of the ones I listed, are regulated in their country.

"how come they can't process US credit cards? how come neteller won't process money from the US? how come there are several US banks refuse to send bank wire to certain books?" Because of the UIGEA. It makes the money transferring aspect of internet gambling complicated for banks and 3rd party processors. It DOES NOT make online gambling ILLEGAL.

My main goal is to make money at the lowest possible juice available with the absolute BEST BOOKS available. I will pay taxes on every cent I make because I don't want to break any laws and keep uncle sam off my back. It's your choice to break the law by not paying taxes and it's your choice to spend time in the slammer for your actions. Ignorance and stubbornness is NO excuse.

I'm not sure if your in the US or not so I don't really know if any of what I have said applies to you when it comes to paying taxes. Wherever you are I wish you the best of luck.

[pico]

I can understand where you are coming from but I don't believe you are from the US and this is more strictly for the US players. If you are not in the US than by all means play at pinny. Play at Betfair. MB should still be an option for the non-US players as well though.

"just because it is a A book doesn't make them a legit trading platform. offshore books are not regulated by the US gov" If being an A such as the ones that I listed doesn't make them a legit trading platform than I don't know what does. Most of those, if not all of the ones I listed, are regulated in their country.

"how come they can't process US credit cards? how come neteller won't process money from the US? how come there are several US banks refuse to send bank wire to certain books?" Because of the UIGEA. It makes the money transferring aspect of internet gambling complicated for banks and 3rd party processors. It DOES NOT make online gambling ILLEGAL.

My main goal is to make money at the lowest possible juice available with the absolute BEST BOOKS available. I will pay taxes on every cent I make because I don't want to break any laws and keep uncle sam off my back. It's your choice to break the law by not paying taxes and it's your choice to spend time in the slammer for your actions. Ignorance and stubbornness is NO excuse.

I'm not sure if your in the US or not so I don't really know if any of what I have said applies to you when it comes to paying taxes. Wherever you are I wish you the best of luck.

best of luck to you. looks like you know what you're doing by line shopping MB is pretty good when you see stale lines to make a quick hedge profit. but it gets complicated when you have to figure in the commission...because you don't really know if your MB hedge is going to win or lose.

[SBR Lou]

i don't live in a country where stashing cash in a shoe box is particularly good idea.

Is your immediate area really that bad..? You seem like the kind of guy whose in a nice neighborhood..

[durito]

Is your immediate area really that bad..? You seem like the kind of guy whose in a nice neighborhood..

it's quite safe actually. i wouldn't stash my cash in a shoe box in any neighborhood in the world.

[durito]

if you have an online gambling account based in a
foreign country with a balance of $10,000 or more at any time during
the year, the Bank Secrecy Act requires you to report it to the IRS by
filing a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR).

z

The U.S. Department
of Justice now has complete information on everyone who
has or ever had a NETeller account.

[tschmitt87]

best of luck to you. looks like you know what you're doing by line shopping MB is pretty good when you see stale lines to make a quick hedge profit. but it gets complicated when you have to figure in the commission...because you don't really know if your MB hedge is going to win or lose.

Yes it may get a little confusing if you try to hedge with matchbook. I'm sure their are ways of doing that but im not in the power to say either way. I don't do alot of hedging. I'm pretty sure vanzack has so I'm sure he can help you out in that situation. The commish part is very easy to figure out if your straight betting and im pretty sure there are some articles here at sbr on it. Whatever you decide I urge you, if you haven't already, to get a MB account. You will not be disappointed.

I cannot emphasize this enough:
Play with the best books.
Keep your withdrawals down to a couple per month.
If you can just start taking these small simple steps you will see this industry get alot better for everyone.

[flyingillini]

Matchbook will never appeal to public bettors
Matchbook is excellent though but you will never see heavy volume there

I personally don't use it and never will.

[durito]

I personally don't use it and never will.

shocking

[flyingillini]

shocking

Sure is

[pico]

shocking

best line is not everything. there are other factors into considering a good book:

number of selections
ease of processing
processing fees
customer support
website reliability

MB do have the bestlines even after commission, but they can only be your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th out...there is no way a person can just do MB alone.

sometimes you just don't want the hassle of having more than 2-3 books. i am happy with my three outs and i don't see i need MB. i still have like 300 dollars worth of comped commission point there....oh well.

[durito]

best line is not everything. there are other factors into considering a good book:

number of selections
ease of processing
processing fees
customer support
website reliability

MB do have the bestlines even after commission, but they can only be your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th out...there is no way a person can just do MB alone.

sometimes you just don't want the hassle of having more than 2-3 books. i am happy with my three outs and i don't see i need MB. i still have like 300 dollars worth of comped commission point there....oh well.

my post had nothing to do with matchbook, and everything to do with the quoted poster.

and i play at 30-40 books and if i had to pick just one, it wouldn't be matchbook

[flyingillini]

my post had nothing to do with matchbook, and everything to do with the quoted poster.

and i play at 30-40 books and if i had to pick just one, it wouldn't be matchbook

Isn't that shocking... It's a shame we cant meet sometime ya know?

[durito]

yea, maybe then you could tell me why i am ignorant

[SBR Lou]

Detecting some bad blood here fellas, you guys bump heads before or what? Both good posters lets just get along and have fun...

[flyingillini]

Detecting some bad blood here fellas, you guys bump heads before or what? Both good posters lets just get along and have fun...

I am here to have fun, I could care less about this guy.... Crazyl when you making your way out to SB? You have a place to stay and party.. you will love it here.. Jordan is here this weekend playing bartender at Fiesta!

[durito]

I am here to have fun, I could care less about this guy.... Crazyl when you making your way out to SB? You have a place to stay and party.. you will love it here.. Jordan is here this weekend playing bartender at Fiesta!

[tschmitt87]

I feel like this thread got side tracked.

My entire thread is pointed toward US players. If your not from the US than of course your not going to think MB is the best. You have pinny, betfair, etc.

This is for all the US players:

1. Play with the BEST. Check the list I made and SBR list for the best. I am so sick of seeing countless threads p****** and moaning about sportsbook.com stiffing, threads about a bunch of no name books, and players complaining about bonuses. I would much rather play with the best books with the most security, ease of getting my money, proven track record, and high limits.

2. Stop asking for more than 2 withdrawals per month. Its inexcusable. The less withdrawals means the faster and cheaper you are going to get paid. Don't let the insecurity of "not getting my money" make you overreact. Your money is SAFE if you play with the best so stop worrying about getting your money and more on your betting game.

3. Get the lowest possible juice with the best books. The difference between -105 and -110 is astounding in the long run. You are only hurting yourself when your not getting the BEST possible juice.

4. Utilize the B2B transfer with the books I listed have to offer. It's easy and free to transfer from matchbook. Let matchbook be your main book, deposit your money, get your fees refunded in commish credits, and simply transfer whatever amount you need at a different book for parlays, etc. That way you don't have to pay any deposit fees and you get commish credits at MB. You get the LOWEST possible juice for your straight bets. Its that easy.

5. Stop being lazy when it comes to depositing. CC's are not going to work for all books right now. Get used to it. If you want to play simply bank wire, **, or ask your book if they have other options.

6. Learn how to post up at MB. You get a better line and more bang for your buck. Its not hard and if you need any help in understanding it ask me or anyone else on this forum who knows how to do it. Don't be afraid to ask for help. I'm more than happy to help as are most people here.

7. Pay your taxes.

8. Research research research. Knowledge is power. Get as much as you can.

Thats all I got for now. Ill add more if I forgot something.

Best of Luck

[jjgold]

It is not changing, Matchbook volume has not had strong strong monthly gains at all since Pinny left the US market. Not one exchange has had any significant gains since their inceptions geared for usa players. It ain't appealing to usa bettors period and never will be.

[pico]

It is not changing, Matchbook volume has not had strong strong monthly gains at all since Pinny left the US market. Not one exchange has had any significant gains since their inceptions geared for usa players. It ain't appealing to usa bettors period and never will be.

sounds about right. unless you're a hardcore gambler, MB isn't that great. too much hassle for the average punter

[durito]

i don't see any of these hassles, especially if you live in the US.

[vanzack]

It is not changing, Matchbook volume has not had strong strong monthly gains at all since Pinny left the US market. Not one exchange has had any significant gains since their inceptions geared for usa players. It ain't appealing to usa bettors period and never will be.

JJ - I know you are an industry insider - but on this particular subject you couldnt be more wrong.

Its funny to me how you make a statement about matchbooks volume not growing.

Not much more I can say about that, except you are wrong, and have no basis for that claim.

And for Picoman or anyone else who claims that the "headaches" of MB outweigh the benefits - the statement says it all about what kind of gambler you are. I run in to this all the time on forums and over the years have understood there are 2 types of gamblers - those that care about winning money - and those that will pay extra to lose money. Obviously, you will pay extra to lose money. Im not saying its a bad thing - at least you recognize it (most dont) - but to have a debate between these two groups is useless. Those that care about making money analyze every way to use books like MB to their advantage, and understand the value - while those who just want action will pay extra just to have the easiest access to action - knowing they are in the best position to lose.

Just two different outlooks on gambling - but I will tell you one thing for sure - those that are serious about gambling have a MB account. 100%. Not 99%.

[tschmitt87]

It is not changing, Matchbook volume has not had strong strong monthly gains at all since Pinny left the US market. Not one exchange has had any significant gains since their inceptions geared for usa players. It ain't appealing to usa bettors period and never will be.

JJ how could you, of all people, possibly think this way. You've been in this business for a hell of alot longer than I have but I cannot find one "fact" that backs up your statement that MB volume has not had strong monthly gains since pinny left. I respect your opinion but you seriously need to reevaluate that statement. I respect your experience with the offshore industry but I disagree with you on your opinion on this matter.

[tschmitt87]

sounds about right. unless you're a hardcore gambler, MB isn't that great. too much hassle for the average punter

If you dont mind could you please make a list of the "hassles" of depositing or making bets on MB? If your a US player you deposit the same way as most sportsbooks. You make bets the same way as well. If your betting straight bets on pro sports there is no other book for US players that compare. It's not even close.

[tschmitt87]

JJ - I know you are an industry insider - but on this particular subject you couldnt be more wrong.

Its funny to me how you make a statement about matchbooks volume not growing.

Not much more I can say about that, except you are wrong, and have no basis for that claim.

And for Picoman or anyone else who claims that the "headaches" of MB outweigh the benefits - the statement says it all about what kind of gambler you are. I run in to this all the time on forums and over the years have understood there are 2 types of gamblers - those that care about winning money - and those that will pay extra to lose money. Obviously, you will pay extra to lose money. Im not saying its a bad thing - at least you recognize it (most dont) - but to have a debate between these two groups is useless. Those that care about making money analyze every way to use books like MB to their advantage, and understand the value - while those who just want action will pay extra just to have the easiest access to action - knowing they are in the best position to lose.

Just two different outlooks on gambling - but I will tell you one thing for sure - those that are serious about gambling have a MB account. 100%. Not 99%.

Couldn't be more correct vanzack.

[bigugly]

Most people here don't have any taxes to pay...they didn't win anything.

[TheLock]

tschmitt, durito......


Lets say someone is a "small timer" who is only making between 2-4K a year via online sportsbetting.....

Would you still advise them to report this income?

nice post btw tschmitt

[tschmitt87]

tschmitt, durito......


Lets say someone is a "small timer" who is only making between 2-4K a year via online sportsbetting.....

Would you still advise them to report this income?

nice post btw tschmitt

Yes I would. Talk with your tax adviser and they will help you out. It's simple, easy, and legal. You pay them to help you with situations like these and they know how the law works. What you are doing is perfectly legal so dont lose a minute of sleep over it. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask away. Best of Luck Lock.