Would Pacquiao have done the same thing to Ortiz?

[Mad Thunder]

amazing how quickly this thread went from whether pacquiao would've sucker punched ortiz like mayweather did to the usual debates about PED's..

[shady610]

Mayweather could out-point pacquiao. plain and simple. if mayweather goes in like a wreckless hammer and sluggs it out, pacquiao would obviously win. but mayweather doesnt do that. mayweather could stay on the outside and work his left jab all night to keep pacquiao on the outside. mayweather could out-point pacquiao by unamimous dicision. no question about it. i still lost respect for floyd bc of what he did to ortiz... but still... its like pacquiao supporters don't have a brain. Ortiz took the test. Mosley took the test. Mayweather took the test. None of them complained about it. none of them cancelled the fight about it. none of them tried to avoid it. they all took the test. Why is taking the test such an issue for pacquiao? They refuse to even think about the central question:

Why would pacquiao turn down $60 Million Dollars to avoid a drug test?

Answer is obvious.

Here is why mosely took the test: because he was involved with balco.

Here is why ortiz took the test: he is looking to make a name.

The fact is, manny doesnt have to do anything floyd asks. Manny even said he would and then its all about arum being a liar.

Just because you have nothing to hide, it doenst mean you have to give in to anybody's demands. I have no illegal drugs in my house at all, but that doesnt mean i have to let you look to prove i am not hiding anything.

[hockey216]

Here is why mosely took the test: because he was involved with balco.

Here is why ortiz took the test: he is looking to make a name.

The fact is, manny doesnt have to do anything floyd asks. Manny even said he would and then its all about arum being a liar.

Just because you have nothing to hide, it doenst mean you have to give in to anybody's demands. I have no illegal drugs in my house at all, but that doesnt mean i have to let you look to prove i am not hiding anything.

give in? i dont understand why its "giving in". so you're "giving in" by just taking a drug test? thats a pretty basic requirement from someone who wants to make 50 million dollars in one night and who wants to be the best.

is getting your wraps/gloves checked by the commission "giving in"?

is weighing in before the fight to make sure you make weight "giving in"?

these are all very basic requests. you act like floyd said he'd only fight pacquiao if he met a list of 10,000 strange requirements. drug testing is a pretty easy one.

As a matter of fact, maybe pacquiao should also refuse to weigh in before the fight... and make everyone just trust that he's 147 pounds.

Why should fighters have to "give in" to show that they are complying with the rules?

yea, fighters shouldn't "give in" to having to weigh in before the fight either. we should just trust that everyone makes weight just like we "trust" that they aren't using PED's.

On a second note, it would only be "giving in" if pacquiao was seriously opposed to it. If he's clean, why is he opposed to it?

it's not "giving in." It's showing that you are not cheating.

If pacquiao wasn't cheating with PED's... why can't he take the test?

[ApricotSinner32]

Bob arum controls manny pacquiao's career. Pacquiao allows it to happen which makes it his fault also. Bob arum already has tim bradley lined up as pacquiao's next opponent. Bob arum claims making the mayweather fight is a priority yet he's already got a deal done with an inferior fighter. People don't do their homework they just claim mayweather is ducking by these writers who are on bob arum's payroll. Do your homework.

As roger mayweather would say "If you take that test he'd get his ass whooped.. period"

[iQon]

People still argue on the internet about Manny and Floyd?

It's not happening! Get over it.

And a lot of misinformation, too. If you don't know what you're talking about, stop making assumptions.

[hockey216]

People still argue on the internet about Manny and Floyd?

It's not happening! Get over it.

And a lot of misinformation, too. If you don't know what you're talking about, stop making assumptions.

i do know what im talking about. Bob Arum is a pathological liar. He's still got a grudge that mayweather fired him, and he keeps making up these fantasies about pacquiao agreeing to drug testing.

Nobody that was clean would turn down $50 Million to dodge a drug test.

[Maxmillion]

i do know what im talking about. Bob Arum is a pathological liar. He's still got a grudge that mayweather fired him, and he keeps making up these fantasies about pacquiao agreeing to drug testing. Nobody that was clean would turn down $50 Million to dodge a drug test.

Yeah I think Arum is part of the problem. He does not want to deal with Mayweathers bullcrap.

For Manny, I dont think its about the money or the drug test, pacman has enough cash for five lifetimes and plus he can go ahead and fight guys he knows he can beat in his sleep and does not have to prepare that hard for, like Marquez, for $10 million a pop. Its a risk/reward thing.

[Maxmillion]

Bob arum controls manny pacquiao's career. Pacquiao allows it to happen which makes it his fault also. Bob arum already has tim bradley lined up as pacquiao's next opponent. Bob arum claims making the mayweather fight is a priority yet he's already got a deal done with an inferior fighter. People don't do their homework they just claim mayweather is ducking by these writers who are on bob arum's payroll. Do your homework. As roger mayweather would say "If you take that test he'd get his ass whooped.. period"

Floyd whips Manny any day of the week. Plus FLoyd will be super-motivted to show everyone he is the best and would take Manny out.

[bobby heenan]

Yeah I think Arum is part of the problem. He does not want to deal with Mayweathers bullcrap.

For Manny, I dont think its about the money or the drug test, pacman has enough cash for five lifetimes and plus he can go ahead and fight guys he knows he can beat in his sleep and does not have to prepare that hard for, like Marquez, for $10 million a pop. Its a risk/reward thing.

it isnt about bob not wanting to deal with any "crap" from floyd

the bottom line is this...arum said he didnt want to make oscar/floyd when floyd was still with top rank...he said it wouldnt sell....so floyd wanted out and bought out his contract for 6 figures....the fight did record ppv numbers...floyd and al haymon launched floyd into superstar status after that.....and arum is vendictive.....he doesnt want floyd to ruin pacs "legend" and status in the game....pac is like bobs baby....under the top rank banner pac has become a superstar...they carefully guided him with crafty matchmaking and promoting

the funny thing is....if someone says to a pac fan..."mmanny is on peformance enhancers"...pac fans will quickly point out that manny and floyd were the same weight in their teens...and theyll say "maybe floyd is on them too"

which begs to ask...what is manny doing thats so amazing and incredible? it actually says to me...hes just doing the same things floyd has already done...only after floyd has done it(except floyd beat an actual 154 champ at 154 and a 147 champ at 147...not vacant titles at catchweights like manny).....

its all through bobs promoting....theyll have you believe manny is doing extraordinary things while floyd is a cherrypicker and a ducker....the power of the media and promoting

[iQon]

Ah yes, because you sat in the meetings and heard Manny Pacquiao say he would not take the tests.

STFU already. This fight has been dead for almost 2 years now and you dweebs still argue about about the same shit.

You know nothing. End thread.

[bobby heenan]

Ah yes, because you sat in the meetings and heard Manny Pacquiao say he would not take the tests. STFU already. This fight has been dead for almost 2 years now and you dweebs still argue about about the same shit. You know nothing. End thread.

you are right...we do actually know nothing

but what i do remember is....during the supposed 2nd round of negotiations...bob arum made a public deadline for floyd to sign a deal....he put up a countdown on his top rank website.....and when the "deadline" passed he fielded a conference call.....he was asked point blank "what concessions did manny make this time in regards to testing"...he said "i cant comment on that"....geez bob why not...not once did he even come close to telling us what kind of offer he had made to floyd for him to sign

it was all marketing and promoting.....because he can get away with it...and floyd isnt gonna give him the time of day and act like he even heard about it or saw...even if he did...its all about perception

like i said...the public acts like manny is doing some impossible/extraordinary things/feats....when in reality its the same stuff floyd has already done....but one is lauded...while we are always asking more of the other.....(and again...floyd beat an actual 154 champ at 154...same at 147....while pac beat margarito at a catchweight for a vacant title...and beat cotto at a catchweight for a belt that cotto was handed by bob arum through michael jennings)

arum never had any intention of making the fight the first time around...he had cowboy stadium in his mind the whole time...and clottey as an opponent in his back pocket the whole time....

[iQon]

Oh, you mean the point where both sides agreed to... KEEP NEGOTIATIONS UNDER WRAPS?

Floyd has already lined up his 2012 fight to be with Amir Khan. Gee, Manny sure is holding things up with the blood testing.

And NOBODY gives Manny credit for winning a belt at 154. Stop it, kid.

[bobby heenan]

Oh, you mean the point where both sides agreed to... KEEP NEGOTIATIONS UNDER WRAPS?

Floyd has already lined up his 2012 fight to be with Amir Khan. Gee, Manny sure is holding things up with the blood testing.

And NOBODY gives Manny credit for winning a belt at 154. Stop it, kid.

and manny already has a fight with tim bradley lined up too...who just signed with top rank....thats how you land a fight with manny...give control over to arum

sure...some of us hardcore fans realize what a sham that 154 title for manny is....but when they are on espn spouting off about how many weight divisions hes won titles in....it counts....and they appeal to the very casual fan....and they talk about him like hes the greatest ever....all about promotion and perception

[hockey216]

bobby heenan actually knows what hes talking about. you can tell he followed the negotiations, unlike the blind pacquiao supporters who believe everything bob arum says, and hail him as the messiah even though he only beat those fighters AFTER floyd did and at LIGHTER weights.

pacquiao fought oscar at 147 and with 10 oz gloves. 147 is not oscars walking around weight. everyone knew at 147 and with 10oz gloves, oscar was a dead man.

Mayweather fought oscar at 154 with some heavyweight 12oz gloves. he tried to get the fight at 147, was told no way in hell. he tried to get 10oz gloves, they said no way in hell.

And when Mayweather schedules to fight Marquez, every pacquiao supporter and their grandmother said, "why is floyd picking on the lightweight?" Everyone said "fight the welterweight champ mosely. why you picking on the little guy?" it's just amusing because i wonder what all these ppl are saying now that pacquiao is fighting marquez.

Bob Arum doesnt want pacquiao to fight floyd because he couldn't stand the thought of the cashcow that fired him encroaching upon his current cashcow.

And the timeclock that Arum posted on his website was a joke. He put a clock up on his website about a deadline for floyd to make a deal. what a joke. pacquiao never made any concessions with regard to the drug testing. everyone knows that. Arum is a pathological liar.

[hockey216]

so when mayweather beats oscar at 154 and with 12oz gloves, they say, "He's over the hill."

When pacquiao beats him nearly 2 years later, at only 147, and with 10oz gloves, they say, "oooh.. this the greatest thing we've ever seen!"

Give me a break.

[iQon]

pacquiao fought oscar at 147 and with 10 oz gloves. 147 is not oscars walking around weight. everyone knew at 147 and with 10oz gloves, oscar was a dead man.

Mayweather fought oscar at 154 with some heavyweight 12oz gloves. he tried to get the fight at 147, was told no way in hell. he tried to get 10oz gloves, they said no way in hell.

What an idiot. You make it seem like Floyd and Manny had leverage over DLH. Every single one of your little points? They were the result of Oscar's demands. If you weren't so busy talking out of your ass, you'd know this.

10 oz gloves? First off, that's universally a glove Middleweights and up wear. Universally, it's mandatory by state commissions to require 10 oz gloves at 154 >. Oscar was a dead man with 10 oz gloves? He fought with them for years.

They actually fought with 8oz gloves. Which was actually, physically to Oscar's advantage. Oscar chose Manny. Oscar made the call to have the fight at 147. Oscar made the call on what gloves Floyd would wear. Including the brand. Oscar said he couldn't make 147 for Floyd. Oscar made the smaller Floyd move up in weight. Oscar made the smaller Manny move up in weight.

Oscar had all of the leverage. Oscar got everything he wanted. Oscar had every fuckin physical advantage a state commission would sanction. It simply backfired like it always did...

This is why you should just STFU.

For the last time... You. Do. Not. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.

[hockey216]

What an idiot. You make it seem like Floyd and Manny had leverage over DLH. Every single one of your little points? They were the result of Oscar's demands. If you weren't so busy talking out of your ass, you'd know this.

10 oz gloves? First off, that's universally a glove Middleweights and up wear. Universally, it's mandatory by state commissions to require 10 oz gloves at 154 >. Oscar was a dead man with 10 oz gloves? He fought with them for years.

They actually fought with 8oz gloves. Which was actually, physically to Oscar's advantage. Oscar chose Manny. Oscar made the call to have the fight at 147. Oscar made the call for Floyd to wear 12 oz. gloves to fatigue and slow him down. Oscar said he couldn't make 147 for Floyd. Oscar made the smaller Floyd move up in weight. Oscar made the smaller Manny move up in weight.

Oscar had all of the leverage. Oscar got everything he wanted. Oscar had every fuckin physical advantage a state commission would sanction. It simply backfired like it always did...

This is why you should just STFU.

For the last time... You. Do. Not. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.

i know that floyd wore 12oz gloves bc de la hoya wanted to slow him down. that was my point. Thinking back, it was 8oz gloves for pacquiao. you are right. i thought for a minute it was 10oz gloves. ok, maybe i made one mistake thinking pacquiao fought de la hoya with 10oz instead of 8oz gloves. doesn't negate any of my other points regarding bob arum and the drug testing.

and are you sure that oscar was the one who wanted the fight at 147? why? 147 is not his walking around weight. that would seem to benefit pacquiao. and if he thought 12oz gloves would slow down floyd, why wouldnt 12 oz gloves slow down pacquiao?

with pacquiao's speed i think 12oz gloves would make it tougher. it seems that 8oz gloves and 147 would benefit pacquiao more than de la hoya. im unsure why de la hoya would want this. thus i assumed pacquiao wanted these.

clarify why on earth de la hoya wanted 147 and 8oz gloves for pacquiao, when against floyd he wanted 154 and 12oz?

why the change? seems like 154 and 12oz would benefit de la hoya more than 147 with 8oz would. u sure de la hoya had all the leverage in the pacquiao negotiations? i know de la hoya obviously had all the leverage in the floyd fight.

[edawg]

If they ever fight I like Mayweather to win. Pac is an excellent offensive fighter but has trouble against counter punchers see Marquez fights. Floyd is probably the best defensive/counter punchers since Pernell Whitaker. Manny could knock him out early in the fight and win but edge goes to Floyd the longer the fight goes. I hope this fight eventually happens

[hockey216]

and i knew de la hoya had all the leverage in the floyd fight. thats why floyd was forced to accept fight at 154 and with 12oz gloves. thats what i said earlier. i never implied floyd had leverage over de la hoya.