jays get colby rasmus

[yisman]

how the fuk is a .240 hitter above avg?

He's not a .240 hitter.

Last year, his second season in the majors, he had a .361 OBP, hit 23 homers, and stole 12 bases, in only 534 plate appearances.

His OPS is well above the MLB average, and like I keep saying, he's only 24.

I don't know whether he'll become a star or not, but considering what Toronto gave up, it's a good trade regardless. They got a young guy with talent who will be under their control until 2015.

[face]

at the beginning of the year he was pretty good, i used to bet on the cardinals in the spring and he would hit every game. he is young, who knows what will happen. bluejays could use a hitter. now they need to bench aaron hill.

[BigDan]

I don't know why you hate him so much, but he's clearly above average. It's not debatable.

i dont hate anyone, i do however have a propensity to dislike wasted talent..pretty debatable to me, go look at his numbers since may and tell me how above avg he is. or better yet watch him stare at clouds while he gets late breaks on fly balls mainly cause he is complacent, watch how he is to lazy to do his job and run over to back up the other outfielders at times , none of these things are what i want out of my center fielder, watch how he pouts and acts like a bitch, Listen how he talks when he says shit like "it not that i dont care, that just my demeanor" , listen while his daddy throws fits because everyone is holding his boy back.

[BigDan]

I never said it was a bad trade for the Jays!!!!!!! he is cost effective and does have "potential" and you are correct it didnt cost them shit, hell i once too did think something of him. That said everyone acting like this kid is some star in the making and STL got hosed is comical to me.....you right i guess i cant "know" if he will be a star but if i was a betting man id damn sure bet the NO.

pretty sure when all this talk began in one thread or another my 1st statement was this would prob turn out to be a good trade for both teams but since all ive heard for 2 days is how Rasmus is this great player with soooo much potential!! of coarse the sabergeeks love him but metrics dont measure toughness and he has none.

[Rich Boy]

If he is hitting in front of Bautista, he will get quality at bats. No excuse if he cant perform then, also in a very good hitters ball park.

[yisman]

The reason why everyone thinks it's a great trade for Toronto is because he's young, he's cheap, he won't be a free agent for several years, he clearly has potential, and he already puts up above average numbers.

Guys like that don't get traded very often for what St. Louis got in return. I just think St. Louis could've gotten more for him, even if they were dead set on trading him.

He's in a great spot in Toronto, and I think he'll hit better there than he did with the Cardinals, but even what he did in St. Louis, how many 23 year olds post a .361 OBP over a full season? Not many...

[antifoil]

this was a steal for the jays. they got a potential impact bat with high upside for a replacement level player in corey patterson.

[BigDan]

The reason why everyone thinks it's a great trade for Toronto is because he's young, he's cheap, he won't be a free agent for several years, he clearly has potential, and he already puts up above average numbers.

Guys like that don't get traded very often for what St. Louis got in return. I just think St. Louis could've gotten more for him, even if they were dead set on trading him.

He's in a great spot in Toronto, and I think he'll hit better there than he did with the Cardinals, but even what he did in St. Louis, how many 23 year olds post a .361 OBP over a full season? Not many...

i know why ppl say what they are saying but it is comical how they are projecting this kid to be a superstar. No IT factor whats so ever.

i expected more but Cards love guys like Jackson so i guess they happy, plus they strengthened their pen a ton with McClellan going back to pen and the lefty we really needed badly. I would think if teams were offering something that would have helped more then Cards would have took that, maybe they should have waited it out but STL is about trying to win now and not like their future looks dim because of this trade...

[yisman]

Corey Patterson was a minor part of the deal. He wasn't a relevant piece.

Edwin Jackson and the two relievers were.

this was a steal for the jays. they got a potential impact bat with high upside for a replacement level player in corey patterson.

[yisman]

i know why ppl say what they are saying but it is comical how they are projecting this kid to be a superstar. No IT factor whats so ever.

i expected more but Cards love guys like Jackson so i guess they happy, plus they strengthened their pen a ton with McClellan going back to pen and the lefty we really needed badly. I would think if teams were offering something that would have helped more then Cards would have took that, maybe they should have waited it out but STL is about trying to win now and not like their future looks dim because of this trade...

OK, so we agree.

The perception of Rasmus is high enough that regardless of what happens, his value was higher than what they got.

I have no idea why they'd make the move now rather than over the weekend. What's the rush? They thought Toronto would pull this offer!?

[Salmon Steak]

Colby Rasmus was a roadblock to the cards team chemistry. Cardinals also gave up totally worthless bullpen guys. They needed a better pen to win the rings later this season. Not sure about edwin though. The starters seemed solid to me all year. Would be a shame to throw mcclellan back in the pen after having such a good year.

[BigDan]

hell i hope the little pussy proves me wrong as i wish no ill will on the Jays or him really. All im saying is im just as glad the kid is gone as Jays fans are that he is there. Dont be shocked when they feel the same way after a few years, maybe they should hire his daddy as a coach maybe that would make him happy.

[yisman]

I'm pretty sure they'll be happy because he'll be a lot better than what they had in CF.

Too bad they're in the AL East because this lineup can do some damage. I bet they'll be one of the highest scoring teams the rest of this season.

[BigDan]

OK, so we agree.

The perception of Rasmus is high enough that regardless of what happens, his value was higher than what they got.

I have no idea why they'd make the move now rather than over the weekend. What's the rush? They thought Toronto would pull this offer!?

the pen situation had become so bad while at the same time Colby had been reduced to a guy taking up a roster spot that i think they felt they had to do it. was a lot of talk of sending him down and that certainly couldnt have helped his value one bit but he couldnt stick around the club much longer. And like i said Duncan prob cumming on himself to get to work with a retread with stuff like jacksons, normally these projects dont have stuff like him. I really dont know much about the lefty pen guy except his numbers are very good but Cards had to have one of these as they are incapable of getting a left handed bat out late in games.

Honestly dont think they were getting much better deal as word was out, maybe it wishful thinking on my part but i think Jackson gonna turn out really good down the stretch and yea maybe they could have got more cost effective younger sp under contract but would they have been the answer for this season? Would they have gotten the pen help along with that? Cards need playoff revenue to pay Albert!!lol

[Salmon Steak]

maybe more long term money to sign pujols now

[BigDan]

I'm pretty sure they'll be happy because he'll be a lot better than what they had in CF.

Too bad they're in the AL East because this lineup can do some damage. I bet they'll be one of the highest scoring teams the rest of this season.

i bet them tonight...

[BigDan]

maybe more long term money to sign pujols now

not really, that was the biggest reason Colby wasnt gone last off-season is because he extremely cost effective for next several years.

[yisman]

Yeah I bet them tonight as well. Baltimore hit two homers to start things off and I wasn't feeling too good.

But this lineup is explosive, and facing Bergesen...

Nice to see Baltimore then bring in Hendrickson, who never belonged in the majors. I can't understand why he's spent as much time in the majors as he has (he was recalled recently this season, but he's spent a lot of time on the Baltimore Major League roster), considering he's old and never was good to begin with. He's left handed, but I could find a lot of better guys, who are younger to boot.

I don't think Edwin Jackson has a lot of value. Maybe Duncan can turn it around, but I'm sure Duncan could've improved a lot of guys, who are cheaper than Jackson.

[antifoil]

Corey Patterson was a minor part of the deal. He wasn't a relevant piece.

Edwin Jackson and the two relievers were.

that doesn't matter to what i said. i am talking about what the jays had to give up to get rasmus. the white sox trade jackson. the jays don't give a shit if jackson goes to the cardinal.

that the biggest piece they gave up was potential number 3 starter in zach stewart.

[BigDan]

Yeah I bet them tonight as well. Baltimore hit two homers to start things off and I wasn't feeling too good.

But this lineup is explosive, and facing Bergesen...

yea they can score no doubt. Colby like the only Jay w/o a hit Kidding as obviously that doesnt mean anything but kinda funny...

[Flight]

I came in this thread because I bet both the Cardinals and the Blue Jays. Didn't even realize the teams are so different now, kept getting confused looking at box scores!

Rasmus
Career AVG .258 OPS .776
Season AVG .243 OPS .746

He's got lots of years ahead of him which is nice.


Not sure if the Cardinals can do anything with Patterson this year. They put him 8th in the lineup today! Oh well, 1 hit and 1 RBI so far.

[yisman]

that doesn't matter to what i said. i am talking about what the jays had to give up to get rasmus.

So am I. The trade wasn't Patterson for Rasmus. Patterson has basically no value.

[yisman]

yea they can score no doubt. Colby like the only Jay w/o a hit Kidding as obviously that doesnt mean anything but kinda funny...

The two best hitters on the team are also without a hit tonight.

[BigDan]

patterson just a nice little extra outfielder that should fit in well with this team, not a big factor, actually heard about trade and didnt hear about him till 20 min later they announced he was also involved and Cards dumped the 2 worst left handed specialist in the history of baseball (if that isnt tru dont kill me yis, they just really fukkin bad all im saying)....

Salmon Steak, it was entirely necessary to get McClellan back in the pen for a few reasons, 1 he is really good there. 2nd you cant trust a guy that never started to keep performing well when he pitching more innings than ever before. Worst case is Jackson will remain being the proven inning eater that we needed but he has tons of "potential" as well, great arm and now he getting to work with one of the best pitching coaches in the biz who has made his name by improving guys with lesser stuff than Jackson.

[antifoil]

So am I. The trade wasn't Patterson for Rasmus. Patterson has basically no value.

that's my point and why this was a steal for the blue jays.

[yisman]

Amazing game. 8 runs and counting and the 2, 3, and 4 hitters have no hits in a combined 12 plate appearances.

[yisman]

that's my point and why this was a steal for the blue jays.

You don't understand. Patterson was a non-factor in the trade.

Toronto traded for Jackson, and then sent him along with two relievers (Dotel and R) to St. Louis for Rasmus.

Patterson, Miller, and the rest of the guys in the Toronto/St. Louis deal were non-factors.

[BigDan]

Amazing game. 8 runs and counting and the 2, 3, and 4 hitters have no hits in a combined 12 plate appearances.

ha, i was so busy looking at Rasmus box score i didnt notice that.....

[gryfyn1]

fangraph had an interesting article about why the cards may have gotten a good deal. And it lies with Rzepczynski.

Although he was beat around in 2010 before being tossed to the Pen, keep in mind he only made 12 starts, three of them vs the Yankees, vs everyone else he pitched 51.2 innings and posted a 3.83 ERA.

2010 also led the view that he has major platoon splits, but in 2009 and this year he is solid vs righties.

at 25, being a lefty capable of posting 20+ k%, he may be headed to being a solid starter, at least in the NL.

[antifoil]

i don't think you understand what i am saying. my position doesn't consider what factor each player played in the role of the trade. it does not matter to me. i am only considering what the blue jays had before the trade and after the trade.

i guess under your "factor" approach. relievers have little long term value to teams so they are non factors to the blue jays. as you suggest patterson is not a factor. they took on salary for the short term which has no long term impact. they gave up zach stewart which does have a marginal long term factor. they got rasmus which does have long ter value. at least according to the experts, much more than stewart making this a steal for the blue jays.

[Metatron]

Rzepczynski is the key to this trade. Kid will be a starter eventually, probably a really good one too. Jays were reluctant to give him up, but Rasmus was enough I guess. Nobody gives a sh*t about anyone else in the trade.

[yisman]

I also think it's a steal for the Blue Jays but it's misleading to say "oh, they traded Patterson for Rasmus."

Patterson is inconsequential. You have to look at what were the driving parts to the deal.

It's like in the NBA, when people said the Lakers got a steal because they traded "Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol" (this was what Screaming A. Smith claimed).

[antifoil]

i disagree with that. the driving parts of the deal do not matter to a particular team. only the before and after snap shot of the team matter. edwin jackson could have gone through a 15 team trade before going to the cardinals. it would not matter to the blue jays.

[antifoil]

i think we must be looking at it from a different perspective. to me, to determine if a team got the best of a trade or not, the other moving parts do not matter to that organization only the beginning and end result for that particular team. i guess you are looking at it from a fan perspective seeing all the moving parts which i was not doing.

[yisman]

Ultimately, Edwin Jackson was the key piece that they dealt for Rasmus.

Even if you want to look at the "before and after", Patterson is still irrelevant. He had no trade value.

When evaluating a trade, you need to get rid of the filler and fluff that doesn't matter. You think Trever Miller was what made this deal? Certainly not. Neither did Corey Patterson. You could've removed either or both from the deal and it made no difference.

The deal was not "Patterson for Rasmus". If you want to not look at Edwin Jackson, rather look at what they traded for Edwin Jackson, that's fine too. But either way Patterson isn't what the trade was.