Official paid poster SBR & EOG combined bulletin

[dirty]

Thanks crazy... you know me.. I am as fair as they come and try to treat everyone the same... I am not taking up for any underhanded tactics as I have no alliance with anyone now.. I rarely speak up in these kinds of things.. I just hate to see people get treated bad for no reason... I was just trying to shed some light then got hit... I can take as much as anyone on these forums..only difference is now I can give it back if needed. I have learned in all my years as a mod by sending out random emails finding why some posters only make a few posts and vanish... Lots of times it is how they were treated.. that is not a good thing to hear. Not that they want asskissing and they understand they have to post a while to get respect and stuff... but they just don't want to get hammered for sharing an opinion... And just because you are not bashing someone does not mean you support them either....that is another thing people need to learn on these forums.

[dirty]

I like your style. I now see why your buddies gave you the name.

I think that with people coming forward and talking about other places having paid posters, they are doing more damage than good. It is only further prolonging the drama and inundating the message boards with hateful drivel.

If we are going to hate each other, let's at least hate each other because someone prefers Steven Segal movies to JCVD. Or maybe someone is a die hard Yankee fan, because let's face it, most people hate them anyway.

Thanks Robyn... I have never understood the forum wars... never will...this industry we all love and many work in has had enough happen to it the last few years.... I mean shit ... why can't all the forums just stop the crap and lets all work together for the common good.

Each forum has its Identity and what they want to be known for...but there is enough room for all of them. I am not saying they have to be best friends... but all this childish stuff is like a nightmare episode of Romper Room and the you are stuck in the swirl of the damn sucker and can't get to reality or Romper Stomper land....

[tim patterson]

I am not a paid poster at either site.

[dirty]

Good to see ya Tim.... hope all is well buddy

[BadNina]

well I stand by my assertion that if we must continue with these "My dick is bigger than yours" threads, I need pictures.

And the monkey, of course.

[pavyracer]

dirty boy, my job is to fend off all the scum that's been lurking in OUR forum with an agenda. when a good apple is mixed with bad apples it will eventually rot too.

[SBR_John]

Hi Dirty and Tim.

Dirty you know forumville. SBR has a posse of self appointed vigilantes that try to cut off the rift raft that blows in on occasion. They are pretty good at sniffing out the bs and dealing with it. Been a lot of rift raft lately. They are good guys that don’t want to see their forum infiltrated with agenda goofs.

You guys enjoy.

[dirty]

Hi Dirty and Tim.

Dirty you know forumville. SBR has a posse of self appointed vigilantes that try to cut off the rift raft that blows in on occasion. They are pretty good at sniffing out the bs and dealing with it. Been a lot of rift raft lately. They are good guys that don’t want to see their forum infiltrated with agenda goofs.

You guys enjoy.

totally understand John... glad to be posting here some... I was just trying to keep a good poster when he posts at the forum.... Thanks for the welcome

[SBR Lou]

Dirty is a hell of a poster other than his Atlanta fanhood...

[Al Masters]

Thanks Robyn... I have never understood the forum wars... never will...this industry we all love and many work in has had enough happen to it the last few years.... I mean shit ... why can't all the forums just stop the crap and lets all work together for the common good.

Each forum has its Identity and what they want to be known for...but there is enough room for all of them. I am not saying they have to be best friends... but all this childish stuff is like a nightmare episode of Romper Room and the you are stuck in the swirl of the damn sucker and can't get to reality or Romper Stomper land....

Dirty,never heard of you before this thread, all i know is what i read here, and that is you worked at the EOG for an extended period of time.

What you write here sounds nice,hopefully 1 day this may occur.

However what you mention (as things stand now is fiction)
"LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GOOD"

Impossible to happen as long as BETUS,ODDSMAKER,ETC,ETC are being promoted by your former employers.

How many poor souls have been crucified by your old group?
I know i know,EOG never pulled the trigger,just sold the gun.

" EACH FORUM HAS IT'S IDENTITY AND WHAT IT WANTS TO BE KNOW FOR"

TRUE, As we speak what's your take on their identity?

Mine comes from 1st hand experience, i was hours away from sending BETUS 4k when i found this place, saved by the bell if you will.

That same day you and all those associated with EOG were in cahoots with them,and are still to this day, 2.5 years later.

Now i know were all whores to the dollar to a certain extent,
and that is what you must decide (i think) if your in this
industry. dollars before integrity or integrity before dollars?

WE all KNOW WITH EOG their identity is the latter.

Bona fide horse thieves................keep those banners waving
for the common good

I won't even comment on the paid posting thingy, as there are many others who have done a fine job with that one.

Last question.....do you believe in guilt by association?

[topgame85]

These threads are a trip, everyone accusing everyone, sometime I feel like Jim Carrey in the Truman show..... Would i even know if everyone here were paid posters and I was the only one who isn't? well I know Jrichshow85 (new sign up) isn't because we grew up together and started gambling together at shitty sites like Sportsbook and sbg but other than him who knows........

[dirty]

Dirty,never heard of you before this thread, all i know is what i read here, and that is you worked at the EOG for an extended period of time.

What you write here sounds nice,hopefully 1 day this may occur.

However what you mention (as things stand now is fiction)
"LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GOOD"

Impossible to happen as long as BETUS,ODDSMAKER,ETC,ETC are being promoted by your former employers.

How many poor souls have been crucified by your old group?
I know i know,EOG never pulled the trigger,just sold the gun.

" EACH FORUM HAS IT'S IDENTITY AND WHAT IT WANTS TO BE KNOW FOR"

TRUE, As we speak what's your take on their identity?

Mine comes from 1st hand experience, i was hours away from sending BETUS 4k when i found this place, saved by the bell if you will.

That same day you and all those associated with EOG were in cahoots with them,and are still to this day, 2.5 years later.

Now i know were all whores to the dollar to a certain extent,
and that is what you must decide (i think) if your in this
industry. dollars before integrity or integrity before dollars?

WE all KNOW WITH EOG their identity is the latter.

Bona fide horse thieves................keep those banners waving
for the common good

I won't even comment on the paid posting thingy, as there are many others who have done a fine job with that one.

Last question.....do you believe in guilt by association?

Good Post Al


It is no secret I worked for EOG for almost 3 years...I had a great time.. does that mean I agreed with every decision made...not at all.. When I first started there the business model was to promote all Top Books and as we all know that changed as has been publicly stated many hundreds of times. Did EOG allow less than stellar books? Sure they did.. As a Mod did that mean I agreed with it? No, but I had a job. We did allow each poster to speak their minds about sponsors good and bad and did not censor that in any way.

As far as I know the Only ones from any sponsor that got burned were from the BOS fiasco. Several Posters and they had a contest with us and still owed over $9k. That situation was unfortunate and was brought on by the US government as we all know. Would the players have gotten stiffed anyway? no one knows the answer to that. WWTS was almost in the same boat until Bodog bailed them out. They were in Stiff mode for 2 months or more until the deal was worked out and accounts transfered because of the Internet Gambling Act. Would WWTS have paid down the line..History tells us yes but we don't know.

The only less than c rated book that went under owing people and didn't pay was USDBET. They are still accepting Deposits. General and I worked hours trying to get any contact. I know General even worked with Bill here to get those guys a bailout. They will not answer the phone, answer emails, etc... I feel like shit because We could not get their money back for them. I still hold out hope for a bailout of some kind or they get a heart and start processing requests for payouts since they are still taking deposits ... Everything went from paying everyone each week to just stop the next.. No warning No nothing. That one was a royal **** up.

Everyone Knows the Cascade Debacle... Lenny is still not paying from what I understand and EOG took them down Voluntarily and I personally don't know of any posters who got stuck by him. That was so publicized I believe most people got out.

As far as the others that everyone bitches about like SBG, Betus, Betmania, and Royal...I don't know of any poster we were not able to get their money for them and SBR and other forums sent guys to EOG to get help with those books. They were always pleasant to work with if we had disputes. We never had many at all. Does that mean they were not paying guys at other places... I can't say for sure as I don't have first hand knowledge of it. I can only speak about my experience with these books and what I knew about. I know what I read here on the Review page and what other posters posted. But anyone that came to EOG to help, The General was able to help almost everyone of them get paid in full.

I am not justifying anything by posting this...just giving my experience. One good thing about working there is We never had to publicly support a sponsor...we just never said anything bad. Did i promote the less than stellar books...yes. Did I publicly endorse them? Not unless my opinion was asked for. Then I could only give my experiences. As contest Manager it was my job. Once the Internet gaming act came into play they were the only ones still having the larger contests and post up contests were not popular with the trouble depositing to most books.

And one thing I want to say about working together.. I think it goes for the books as well. The books need to work together more than ever before. They could force the other books out most likely if they would still pay to advertise on these major forums most likely. it would make these books do right or go out of business or not get any forum posters. Top books don't advertise, pay top rates, or accept US players because the don't have to as most have built their business. If there were no room for the others then they would be shut out. Case in point.... if a Forum had Greek, Betjam, WSEX, Pinny, 5Dimes, PIG, Legendz, etc at the top paying for advertising and they put it into the contracts to have their books and payments stopped immediately to the forum if they accept the lesser books advertising. I mean if everyone of them left then the forum would be left holding their pecker. If One forum didn't want to comply then they would have little traffic because the other forums would have the safer books...

Is this a Pipe Dream? Most likely. The only way it will happen is if the WTO regulates it and has a gaming committee (and can get the US to agree to participate) go around and audit the books to keep their license.


Guilt by association...do I believe in it? In some cases...but not all the time. Depends on the Situation. Just because you work for a site does not mean you agree with what the owner always does. It is that way at almost every job. I think it is good to have Mods that care about the posters and the forum and will do everything possible to help them when needed. Whether the book is a sponsor or not. I think at EOG we did that while General and I was there. I can't comment on anything that happens there now as I am not involved and have not been since June 1. Hell case in point... General gave his resignation with me in early May and the last week we were there General was working on Disputes for EOG until he quit. I pointed Posters his direction and he worked to get them resolved.

I know I worked my ass off for the posters at EOG and helped them any way I could (the same for General, Bucs, and Hacheman as well). I treated them all the same when problems arose or needed help whether I liked them or not. From changing Avatars to sportsbook disputes to helping them grieve if they lost a parent. When Glaken died it brought us Mods very close over there and we tried to extend that to our posters. Was EOG perfect? Not at all. Did I make mistakes? Many. Do I regret working at EOG? Not at all. Do I agree with the direction it has taken? not any of my business now so my opinion does not matter anymore. I have no allegiances whatsoever. Do i want EOG to succeed yes. Hell I want SBR, MW, OGD, Cappersmall, Madjacks, etc to all succeed.

I will end by saying this... I love this industry and I want it to get better for everyone involved. I still have a passion for working in this industry and trying to make it better. No one can ever question my commitment and work ethic. I am very proud of that.

Sorry for the ramble...


PS... I do not believe in Paid Posters either. Mods are a necessity but paid poster are useless. you would be better off setting your money on fire.

[Al Masters]

Good Post Al


It is no secret I worked for EOG for almost 3 years...I had a great time.. does that mean I agreed with every decision made...not at all.. When I first started there the business model was to promote all Top Books and as we all know that changed as has been publicly stated many hundreds of times. Did EOG allow less than stellar books? Sure they did.. As a Mod did that mean I agreed with it? No, but I had a job. We did allow each poster to speak their minds about sponsors good and bad and did not censor that in any way.

As far as I know the Only ones from any sponsor that got burned were from the BOS fiasco. Several Posters and they had a contest with us and still owed over $9k. That situation was unfortunate and was brought on by the US government as we all know. Would the players have gotten stiffed anyway? no one knows the answer to that. WWTS was almost in the same boat until Bodog bailed them out. They were in Stiff mode for 2 months or more until the deal was worked out and accounts transfered because of the Internet Gambling Act. Would WWTS have paid down the line..History tells us yes but we don't know.

The only less than c rated book that went under owing people and didn't pay was USDBET. They are still accepting Deposits. General and I worked hours trying to get any contact. I know General even worked with Bill here to get those guys a bailout. They will not answer the phone, answer emails, etc... I feel like shit because We could not get their money back for them. I still hold out hope for a bailout of some kind or they get a heart and start processing requests for payouts since they are still taking deposits ... Everything went from paying everyone each week to just stop the next.. No warning No nothing. That one was a royal **** up.

Everyone Knows the Cascade Debacle... Lenny is still not paying from what I understand and EOG took them down Voluntarily and I personally don't know of any posters who got stuck by him. That was so publicized I believe most people got out.

As far as the others that everyone bitches about like SBG, Betus, Betmania, and Royal...I don't know of any poster we were not able to get their money for them and SBR and other forums sent guys to EOG to get help with those books. They were always pleasant to work with if we had disputes. We never had many at all. Does that mean they were not paying guys at other places... I can't say for sure as I don't have first hand knowledge of it. I can only speak about my experience with these books and what I knew about. I know what I read here on the Review page and what other posters posted. But anyone that came to EOG to help, The General was able to help almost everyone of them get paid in full.

I am not justifying anything by posting this...just giving my experience. One good thing about working there is We never had to publicly support a sponsor...we just never said anything bad. Did i promote the less than stellar books...yes. Did I publicly endorse them? Not unless my opinion was asked for. Then I could only give my experiences. As contest Manager it was my job. Once the Internet gaming act came into play they were the only ones still having the larger contests and post up contests were not popular with the trouble depositing to most books.

And one thing I want to say about working together.. I think it goes for the books as well. The books need to work together more than ever before. They could force the other books out most likely if they would still pay to advertise on these major forums most likely. it would make these books do right or go out of business or not get any forum posters. Top books don't advertise, pay top rates, or accept US players because the don't have to as most have built their business. If there were no room for the others then they would be shut out. Case in point.... if a Forum had Greek, Betjam, WSEX, Pinny, 5Dimes, PIG, Legendz, etc at the top paying for advertising and they put it into the contracts to have their books and payments stopped immediately to the forum if they accept the lesser books advertising. I mean if everyone of them left then the forum would be left holding their pecker. If One forum didn't want to comply then they would have little traffic because the other forums would have the safer books...

Is this a Pipe Dream? Most likely. The only way it will happen is if the WTO regulates it and has a gaming committee (and can get the US to agree to participate) go around and audit the books to keep their license.


Guilt by association...do I believe in it? In some cases...but not all the time. Depends on the Situation. Just because you work for a site does not mean you agree with what the owner always does. It is that way at almost every job. I think it is good to have Mods that care about the posters and the forum and will do everything possible to help them when needed. Whether the book is a sponsor or not. I think at EOG we did that while General and I was there. I can't comment on anything that happens there now as I am not involved and have not been since June 1. Hell case in point... General gave his resignation with me in early May and the last week we were there General was working on Disputes for EOG until he quit. I pointed Posters his direction and he worked to get them resolved.

I know I worked my ass off for the posters at EOG and helped them any way I could (the same for General, Bucs, and Hacheman as well). I treated them all the same when problems arose or needed help whether I liked them or not. From changing Avatars to sportsbook disputes to helping them grieve if they lost a parent. When Glaken died it brought us Mods very close over there and we tried to extend that to our posters. Was EOG perfect? Not at all. Did I make mistakes? Many. Do I regret working at EOG? Not at all. Do I agree with the direction it has taken? not any of my business now so my opinion does not matter anymore. I have no allegiances whatsoever. Do i want EOG to succeed yes. Hell I want SBR, MW, OGD, Cappersmall, Madjacks, etc to all succeed.

I will end by saying this... I love this industry and I want it to get better for everyone involved. I still have a passion for working in this industry and trying to make it better. No one can ever question my commitment and work ethic. I am very proud of that.

Sorry for the ramble...


PS... I do not believe in Paid Posters either. Mods are a necessity but paid poster are useless. you would be better off setting your money on fire.

Dirty, i appreciate the quick and efficient response.

Super post,top 5 candidate, i learned a little something.

Your either a seasoned con or a real gentleman, my gut tells me gentleman.

It's rare 1 post can make me change my mind bout someone,but yours did.

All the best in your new ventures.........hope there industry related as i see you have a passion for it!

[imgv94]

Testing to see if I'm still on PR.

[chance]

Hey Dirty. Hope all is good for you and your kids (got my first on the way). Hopefully our paths will cross again one day.Thanks for sticking up for me. I was quite enjoying seeing how paranoid everyone is here.

You hit the nail on the head about people working together. It is hard though when these forum owners see the big $$$$$ in their eyes. Sought of explains why the USA Ryder Cup, baseball and basketball teams can lose so much. They have by far the best individuals but can they play as team like the poorer Europeans, Japanese, Cubans, or Argentinians?

[chance]

Thats true, good post.

We could use your help. Players should also avoid sites that promote Oddsmaker, BetUS and SBG to unsuspecting players. Agree?

Agree totally!!!!!! But I understand since the Patriot Act to stay in business you need to accept money from the scum out their.

Congragulations to you though for your stand against sportsbook.com family of books for as long as I can remember you have accuratley warning against them, even when they were owned by sportingbet plc. I took the risk of betting with them at times and twice had to get Majorwager and Eog to nudge them to pay me.

[pavyracer]

Nice job with the lengthy diatribe dirty boy. We ain't hiring though. The fall line up is set with jjgold, crazyl and me.

John,

I lost the memo you send last week about the usernames. Do I get to use them on July 1st or August 1st?

Thanks.

[dirty]

Dirty, i appreciate the quick and efficient response.

Super post,top 5 candidate, i learned a little something.

Your either a seasoned con or a real gentleman, my gut tells me gentleman.

It's rare 1 post can make me change my mind bout someone,but yours did.

All the best in your new ventures.........hope there industry related as i see you have a passion for it!

Thanks Al.... Just posting my experience the best I could... not trying to change anyone's mind.


Thanks for the well wishes and I have a couple things kicking them around...all I can do is give it the ole college try.

Ken also does a ton behind the scenes that no on knows about ... He fights for players to get their money as well. He had General to handle most of the disputes before, but he never hesitated to get involved... I don't think that will change. I didn't bring it up before cause I didn't want the Ken haters to come in and start bashing.... I didn't post this to change anyone's mind about him, but the man does do a lot of good for people and just wanted to say that.

[dirty]

Testing to see if I'm still on PR.

Now go try to get some brownie points and spin this as a anti EOG or anti Ken post gyno.... your agenda fools no one and it is no secret you don't like me... Good luck man.

This post is not anti anything.... Just a recollection of my experiences and honestly answering questions to a poster that asked. So your conspiracy theories will not work on anyone with a brain.

[pavyracer]

I like this rookie. dirty boy came in firing on all cylinders and directions.

[dirty]

Hey Dirty. Hope all is good for you and your kids (got my first on the way). Hopefully our paths will cross again one day.Thanks for sticking up for me. I was quite enjoying seeing how paranoid everyone is here.

You hit the nail on the head about people working together. It is hard though when these forum owners see the big $$$$$ in their eyes. Sought of explains why the USA Ryder Cup, baseball and basketball teams can lose so much. They have by far the best individuals but can they play as team like the poorer Europeans, Japanese, Cubans, or Argentinians?

congratulation on the coming baby Chance.... I am sure/hope our paths will cross again as It would be good to share a beer with ya and catch up.


Totally understand what you are saying about the money part and it is hard not to get caught up in that when prices all around ya are going up. And yes the money has spoiled and made most American Athletes lazy and not as motivated unless it is a contract season. International Baskets just proves that teamwork is more important than having the best talent.

[dirty]

Nice job with the lengthy diatribe dirty boy. We ain't hiring though. The fall line up is set with jjgold, crazyl and me.

John,

I lost the memo you send last week about the usernames. Do I get to use them on July 1st or August 1st?

Thanks.

Not auditioning for a job bud.... just honestly answering a question....I already have a job

[dirty]

I like this rookie. dirty boy came in firing on all cylinders and directions.

Haha...thanks man, I think



Nah.... it is just good to be able to get around and post and read more of the forums.. I was so busy with personal things and my job before I never got to do that much.... as we could post anywhere we wanted...

One thing I have always tried to do is be honest in my postings... I always tried to call a spade a spade and so forth...never tried to rock the boat on purpose. I learned quickly once I was hired at EOG what it was like.. I have been a Mod until recently in forumville for the last 5 years and been posting for almost 9 years....

I quickly became everyones best friend and IM buddy ... Mostly people were digging for info. Everyone has to be the next Scoop Jackson ... never got nothing out of me though.... maybe just a snippet here and there to see who I could trust and who would blab...

[SBR_John]

Dirty is laying the lumber. Al fired the ball down field and even chance took a chance.
Gyno is still in shock that he can claim he will expose 4 SBR paid posters and 15 ghosts but when called a liar and ask to post them could only produce 1 mofo ghost and gets his lying ass put on post review.

Dirty what was your handle at TheRx? I agree with your state of the advertising industry. The forums missed a chance to work together. Imagine if we produced a list of the top 20 and all the forums agreed to exclusively advertise off this list? Could even be a package deal. Might of worked yesteryear. Its everyman for himself now im afraid.

[dirty]

Dirty is laying the lumber. Al fired the ball down field and even chance took a chance.
Gyno is still in shock that he can claim he will expose 4 SBR paid posters and 15 ghosts but when called a liar and ask to post them could only produce 1 mofo ghost and gets his lying ass put on post review.

Dirty what was your handle at TheRx? I agree with your state of the advertising industry. The forums missed a chance to work together. Imagine if we produced a list of the top 20 and all the forums agreed to exclusively advertise off this list? Could even be a package deal. Might of worked yesteryear. Its everyman for himself now im afraid.

I never posted much at the RX.... I was a moderator at Freewinners.com before it became irrelevant. The general, myself, Mofome, and many other great forum posters at the main ones started there. My handle was dirty there as well. I only had a handfull of posts. Shit I had a construction company and all back then so my time to post was limited for the most part...


To have a top 20 list and the books fighting to get on it would have been outstanding.. I can only imagine how strong the industry would be if that would have happened. I am holding out hope that it will happen if the Internet gaming act would be loosened or repealed under a new administration.

[Ricky James]

EOG has so much useless traffic in the general forum, it's amazing. I like all the forums, they all have their uses.

[SBR_John]

The inescapable problem is that crapbooks get the most value from forums. Visitors soon realize that its not safe to choose a sponsor sportsbook just because they fly a banner. Guys go to post there but leave to a site like SBR to do their due diligence. Whenever you take on an SBG type you forever destroy your conversion rate because no one trusts the site to send them to a safe sportsbook. Once you don’t convert you become a branding only site.

Now days books want a return on their marketing investment and don’t care much about the branding aspect. Short sightedness and short term greed is to blame for most of the forums drop in revenue. The industry is still healthy it’s the forums that missed the chance to be converting machines hence they will suffer until they figure out how to convert. And they wont as long as they partner with crapbooks.

[Halifax]

The inescapable problem is that crapbooks get the most value from forums. Visitors soon realize that its not safe to choose a sponsor sportsbook just because they fly a banner. Guys go to post there but leave to a site like SBR to do their due diligence. Whenever you take on an SBG type you forever destroy your conversion rate because no one trusts the site to send them to a safe sportsbook. Once you don’t convert you become a branding only site.

Now days books want a return on their marketing investment and don’t care much about the branding aspect. Short sightedness and short term greed is to blame for most of the forums drop in revenue. The industry is still healthy it’s the forums that missed the chance to be converting machines hence they will suffer until they figure out how to convert. And they wont as long as they partner with crapbooks.

John, any idea how many customers the big books have now, and how many dollars are bet now, compared to a couple of years ago ? 50-60% ?

[dirty]

The inescapable problem is that crapbooks get the most value from forums. Visitors soon realize that its not safe to choose a sponsor sportsbook just because they fly a banner. Guys go to post there but leave to a site like SBR to do their due diligence. Whenever you take on an SBG type you forever destroy your conversion rate because no one trusts the site to send them to a safe sportsbook. Once you don’t convert you become a branding only site.

Now days books want a return on their marketing investment and don’t care much about the branding aspect. Short sightedness and short term greed is to blame for most of the forums drop in revenue. The industry is still healthy it’s the forums that missed the chance to be converting machines hence they will suffer until they figure out how to convert. And they wont as long as they partner with crapbooks.

No doubt the way it is now the lesser books benefit from the forums.. But, with that said, it is the Forums fault for that as well. It is up to the forum(s)to create ways to generate new traffic to your site and generate new signups to the site and sponsors. Not just visitors. That is the root of the problem right there. Hard to blame the sportsbook when their advertising dollars are no longer worth it at High Prices. Once they stop you have to look at the forums because it is their job to keep advertisers and that can only be obtained by new accounts. Especially when you charge a Monthly rate for advertising

[SBR_John]

I cant take a good stab at your first two-part question. But in percentages for the books I hear numbers like -30% and less. SBR was down 28% in 07 and will likely be up a little in 08. I think that -30% is a good number for the upper half of the quality curve. Keep in mind the A rated books were hurt by the law but somewhat benefited from BoS and Pinnacle's departure as well as a flight to quality.

[dirty]

I cant take a good stab at your first two-part question. But in percentages for the books I hear numbers like -30% and less. SBR was down 28% in 07 and will likely be up a little in 08. I think that -30% is a good number for the upper half of the quality curve. Keep in mind the A rated books were hurt by the law but somewhat benefited from BoS and Pinnacle's departure as well as a flight to quality.

No doubt the A rated places benefited from the BoS and Pinny situations...They also benefited from the Gaming Act as well, especially the ones who went above and beyond to keep deposits/withdrawals as simple and quick as possible. Once players started having trouble in that area they would give up betting options that attracted them to the lesser books to get the quick and guaranteed payout. Is their handle down? Most likely but they did not suffer like other books.

Interesting percentages and glad to hear SBR will have a gain this year... I hope things keep looking better for everyone in the future..

the traffic is out there for these forums to grow and be profitable again. The question is are they willing to take the hit short term to do what it takes to get the traffic and keep them at the site. Until the forums can keep the same posters from jumping from forum to forum and generate some good and RELEVANT traffic that will convert into signups and deposits then they will be stuck in quick sand. I have heard from several books that they only get between 8-20% of their accounts from the forums (don't know about volume). If that is the case with most of them then their is no reason the forums and this Industry can't keep growing.

[MBENZ]

No doubt the A rated places benefited from the BoS and Pinny situations...They also benefited from the Gaming Act as well, especially the ones who went above and beyond to keep deposits/withdrawals as simple and quick as possible. Once players started having trouble in that area they would give up betting options that attracted them to the lesser books to get the quick and guaranteed payout. Is their handle down? Most likely but they did not suffer like other books.

Interesting percentages and glad to hear SBR will have a gain this year... I hope things keep looking better for everyone in the future..

the traffic is out there for these forums to grow and be profitable again. The question is are they willing to take the hit short term to do what it takes to get the traffic and keep them at the site. Until the forums can keep the same posters from jumping from forum to forum and generate some good and RELEVANT traffic that will convert into signups and deposits then they will be stuck in quick sand. I have heard from several books that they only get between 8-20% of their accounts from the forums (don't know about volume). If that is the case with most of them then their is no reason the forums and this Industry can't keep growing.

Always straight to the point as usuall,there is a place in this industry for straightshooters like yourself.Believe it or not,theres still alot of us that would rather hear the straight poop instead of alot of smoke and mirror bullshit.I sincerely hope that you get your shot.

[dirty]

Thanks man..I have always tried to be straight when at all possible..

[imgv94]

Dirty is laying the lumber. Al fired the ball down field and even chance took a chance.
Gyno is still in shock that he can claim he will expose 4 SBR paid posters and 15 ghosts but when called a liar and ask to post them could only produce 1 mofo ghost and gets his lying ass put on post review.

Dirty what was your handle at TheRx? I agree with your state of the advertising industry. The forums missed a chance to work together. Imagine if we produced a list of the top 20 and all the forums agreed to exclusively advertise off this list? Could even be a package deal. Might of worked yesteryear. Its everyman for himself now im afraid.

Richkas
JJ Gold
crazyl
Robyn and Her Husband
LT Profits

Even your more loyal posters here see the crazy amount on JJ ghosts here..

[5 star bomb]

Rude? Hmmm let me think . Still thinking....Oh Yea! Maybe its because you promised to expose 4 paid posters and 15 ghosts and you delivered 1 obscure mofo ghost.

Anyway not bitter just not giving you guys a free pass on BS. So I take back and apologize that I said youre one of the weakest 26, but you do the most butt kissing and I would think you would even agree on that. Your exaggeration of 4 paid and 15 ghosts proves you are not above lying for the boss for a very few dollars.

ATTN: SBR JOHN!!!!!!!!!

imgv has been trying to answer this question but you insist on not letting his answer go through.... lets get this cleared up pal. Either let him post on sbr or head over to eog and we will discuss this.