USA: Will the World's Richest Country Default on its Debt? UNREAL READ

[bettilimbroke999]

Forsberg you know how dumb you are dont you, I mean really even in Canada your report card was all Fs right, I mean they didnt seriously pass you did they?

You're really jealous that I have at least a high school education and the Canadians wouldnt ever let you get to the 2nd grade at a "normal" school arent you

Im no longer responding to you bc you cant even understand basic math (no wonder you McDs workers cant ever get my change right) and your arguments make me feel as though Im an Olympic champion up against a Special Olympics champion that is too stupid too realize hes losing bc I've lapped him so many times he thinks hes ahead

One last time for your feeble brain:

Would you rather get 5 bucks from 1 person or a check for a million bucks donated by a million ppl? You're so stupid I think youd take the 5 at this point so lets just drop that argument

You are comparing the most successful, powerful countries in the world and the fact that Canada matches them on average makes no difference, if Bill Gates moved to an island would you say that country has an economy 1000s of times greater than the US or China bc its per capita GDP is thousands of times greater, sure you would, you were educated in Canada were they are running out funding for their education and health care (get ready for those taxes to go up again)

I have one last statement for you, what do you think happens to the economy of a country when the country that imports 73% of their goods defaults? Also the retail sector is the largest employer in Canada (almost all US based companies, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, even the McDs and other fast foods that you work at, yep that's right you work for the Americans biatch and your country is almost solely dependent on the US). Think about all that for a second, guten tag herr

[raydog]

didnt read a single post in the thread because the title is flawed...u.s. isnt even close to being the richest country in the world(gdp per capita)... correct the title and i might read about how bad our debt is...

[forsberg21]

Forsberg you know how dumb you are dont you, I mean really even in Canada your report card was all Fs right, I mean they didnt seriously pass you did they?

You're really jealous that I have at least a high school education and the Canadians wouldnt ever let you get to the 2nd grade at a "normal" school arent you

Im no longer responding to you bc you cant even understand basic math (no wonder you McDs workers cant ever get my change right) and your arguments make me feel as though Im an Olympic champion up against a Special Olympics champion that is too stupid too realize hes losing bc I've lapped him so many times he thinks hes ahead

One last time for your feeble brain:

Would you rather get 5 bucks from 1 person or a check for a million bucks donated by a million ppl? You're so stupid I think youd take the 5 at this point so lets just drop that argument

You are comparing the most successful, powerful countries in the world and the fact that Canada matches them on average makes no difference, if Bill Gates moved to an island would you say that country has an economy 1000s of times greater than the US or China bc its per capita GDP is thousands of times greater, sure you would, you were educated in Canada were they are running out funding for their education and health care (get ready for those taxes to go up again)

I have one last statement for you, what do you think happens to the economy of a country when the country that imports 73% of their goods defaults? Also the retail sector is the largest employer in Canada (almost all US based companies, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, even the McDs and other fast foods that you work at, yep that's right you work for the Americans biatch and your country is almost solely dependent on the US). Think about all that for a second, guten tag herr

Lies, lies and more lies, LOL. I mean, how primitive are these words, this is something you'd hear on the playground in grade school: "You're really jealous that I have at least a high school education and the Canadians wouldnt ever let you get to the 2nd grade at a "normal" school arent you". I don't even have to tell you what degrees I hold. Judging by your writing, though process, (in)ability to articulate your ideas, it's apparent that you're the one who lacks any formal education whatsoever.

Your analogies are beyond ridiculous. They resemble a string of random words more than anything else. Your writing is borderline English. You can't even put a sentence together properly (being a product of the American school system probably has a lot to do with that). You fail at the ability to express yourself and your laughable theories. I know I'm arguing with a 42 year old redneck, but it feels like I'm arguing with an 8 year old child.

You lied again, and I'm going to prove it just like I've exposed all your lies. Canada's largest employers:

http://www.globeinvestor.com/series/top1000/tables/employers/2003/

"Also the retail sector is the largest employer in Canada".

You don't recognize any names on there because they are all Canadian companies. We don't even have Target in Canada yet. This is an outright lie, just like numerous other statements you've made. You make up facts on the fly.

"yep that's right you work for the Americans biatch". LOL, this is particularly ironic because I actually work for a massive Canadian bank that is operating in the United States. Like I said to you earlier, Canada's banks operate in your country and make profits from Americans, so who is the biatch? Canada has strict laws concerning foreign financial institutions operating within our borders. This is a smart law that preserves the sovereignty of Canada's mighty financial system. In the US, your banking system has been sold out to the highest bidder, which includes the Chinese as well as the Canadians (you have numerous European banks in there too). The US is actually providing a nice level of profits to my bank, biatch.

"when the country that imports 73% of their goods defaults?" Well here's what would happen. We'd take all of our oil and sell it to China. China has already said they'd take all of it and actually pay a premium for it. Canada would quickly and easily find additional buyers to take those exports. 22.2% of all US exports are shipped to Canada, what if Canada stopped buying from the US? The point is, both economies depend on each other to a high degree, one would suffer a great deal of harm without the other.

Are you going to run away now because you've been exposed as an uneducated liar? Have fun working for the Chinese pal.



"We owned most of their debt...... so now they work for us" LOL! That's Gold! And True!

[The Madcap]

Good effort there Madcap, but I stopped taking you seriously when you said this:

"Now let's say I was in Canada. Where lining up an appointment with a specialist can take months, and MRI waiting times are as long as 6-8 months."

This is an outright lie. 6 to 8 months? No. That is simply untrue. I know this for a fact. A good friend of mine is going for an MRI next week. He book it at the beginning of this month. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but this 6 to 8 month thing sounds like something they would say on Fox News.

"In Canada I'd just get told to suck on it by the government."
"A lesson that wouldn't fukking matter in Canada, where the results would be worse, because not only would my hand still be screwed up, I would have no real hope of a solution. "

Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch? Seriously. Your post started off sound, but ended like an irrational rant.

BTW, that $20 a month? With the way they set up the financing and interest rates, I bet you'll be paying that $20 a month for 20 years. Guess how much my friend paid? $0.

Lastly, I found this very ironic:

"The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government"

Can you tell me how the restriction of Americans to play online poker/sportsbook wagering is consistent with what you just said?

Wagering: It's not consistent. One of the agonizing drawbacks of living in a country where the government thinks it must protect the people from themselves. But having the government ban me from wagering online is a little bit different than them banning me from spending my own damned money to seek out medical care to fix a debilitating condition.

Wait times: A friend of mine lives outside of Calgary, says MRI wait times are 6-8 months there. Says he trying to work something out in BC. And while I couldn't find a source verifying his statement for you, I did find this link:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html

"A typical Canadian seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment had to wait 18.3 weeks in 2007, an all-time high, according to new research published Monday by independent research organization the Fraser Institute."

So it's 4-5 months to see a surgeon, and 2-5 months to get an MRI. Still a lot longer than the 1-2 weeks here in America.

Payments: I was charged ZERO interest on my monthly payments. You obviously have no effing clue how the payment system works here in America. You should probably shut up about it.

And no, I don't think it's a bit of a stretch to say the Canadian government will tell me to suck on it. Look at my situation, I'm going to have had two opinions from two different doctors in less than a month. And three in 6 months. (which could have been shorter if I had made it so.) It would take me almost a year or more to get that type of attention in Canada. If they even allowed me to have three different opinions after the first two doctors concluded there was no diagnosis they could make and nothing they could do about it.

Again, I'm happy for you that you are satisfied with your health care system. I wouldn't be. I would be one of those thousands of Canadians crossing into the United States on a daily basis to get treated before my injuries drastically worsen. Maybe you don't think it's bullshit that your citizens feel they have to leave their own damn country to get quality medical care in a timely fashion. I would. But then I don't live in Canada, and I don't feel the need to go basing what Canadians do. That's your business. So why don't you keep to your business and stay the fuk out of ours?

[forsberg21]

Wagering: It's not consistent. One of the agonizing drawbacks of living in a country where the government thinks it must protect the people from themselves. But having the government ban me from wagering online is a little bit different than them banning me from spending my own damned money to seek out medical care to fix a debilitating condition.

Wait times: A friend of mine lives outside of Calgary, says MRI wait times are 6-8 months there. Says he trying to work something out in BC. And while I couldn't find a source verifying his statement for you, I did find this link:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html

"A typical Canadian seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment had to wait 18.3 weeks in 2007, an all-time high, according to new research published Monday by independent research organization the Fraser Institute."

So it's 4-5 months to see a surgeon, and 2-5 months to get an MRI. Still a lot longer than the 1-2 weeks here in America.

Payments: I was charged ZERO interest on my monthly payments. You obviously have no effing clue how the payment system works here in America. You should probably shut up about it.

And no, I don't think it's a bit of a stretch to say the Canadian government will tell me to suck on it. Look at my situation, I'm going to have had two opinions from two different doctors in less than a month. And three in 6 months. (which could have been shorter if I had made it so.) It would take me almost a year or more to get that type of attention in Canada. If they even allowed me to have three different opinions after the first two doctors concluded there was no diagnosis they could make and nothing they could do about it.

Again, I'm happy for you that you are satisfied with your health care system. I wouldn't be. I would be one of those thousands of Canadians crossing into the United States on a daily basis to get treated before my injuries drastically worsen. Maybe you don't think it's bullshit that your citizens feel they have to leave their own damn country to get quality medical care in a timely fashion. I would. But then I don't live in Canada, and I don't feel the need to go basing what Canadians do. That's your business. So why don't you keep to your business and stay the fuk out of ours?

You sir Madcap, are a manipulator of the facts. I'm going to tell you why you are a manipulator very soon, first I'd like to address this:

You said: "The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government"

I replied: Can you tell me how the restriction of Americans to play online poker/sportsbook wagering is consistent with what you just said?

You say wagering is different? How so? Your words:

"The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government". In your own words, the people of the US prefer the choice to play and accept the responsibility of online poker than to be told who, when and where they can play online poker by their government.

Please explain to me how this is different? Are you saying it's different now because it completely contradicts what you said? It's not different. Your freedoms are being ripped away from you. Your government bailed out powerhouse corporations to the tunes of hundreds of billions of dollars. Where is the "preference for freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice"? The freedoms you think you have and the freedom you actually have are two different things. Land of the Free? LOL my ass, that's the biggest scam your government has sold you. You have to wonder who's worse, your government for being so deceiving, or the general populace for buying into it? Either way, any rational person realizes how much of a ridiculous facade the US actually is.

Now, onto my next point. You stated that "So it's... 2-5 months to get an MRI". Maybe your reading comprehension isn't up to par, but the article stated that "The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks." This is 2.5 months, not 2-5 months. And don't tell me that it's 5 months because Newfoundland is a tiny fraction of Canada. If some ONE PERSON, for some unexplainable reason, waited 1 year, you would then change your statement to 2-12 months. Good effort in manipulating the facts though, you almost got away with it. The median wait time for an MRI was 2.5 months, not 2-5 months, for the record.

You also stated that "A friend of mine lives outside of Calgary, says MRI wait times are 6-8 months there". With the median wait time being 10.1 weeks (2.5 months roughly), how does it make any sense that your friend is waiting 6-8 months for an MRI? Does your friend exist or did you just make him up to build this case of yours? Median wait time of 2.5 months, yet your "friend" is waiting 6-8 months. I'll let the jury decide that one.

I just found this too:

Go to Page 12

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/products/wait_times_tables_aib_e.pdf

After seeing this, I'm absolutely positive that your friend doesn't exist and that you made him up. 50% of people received an MRI within 41 days (1.3 months) and 90% of people received their MRI within 136 days (4.5 months). Based on these figures, what is the probability that it takes 6-8 months to get an MRI in Alberta (which is where Calgary is for the geographically inclined)? Your friend is a ghost. You made that up.

Furthermore, the article stated that "...the Canadian health-care system, the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required". Since you couldn't comprehend this statement, it essentially meant that from start to finish, from going to see the first doctor, to having your surgery completed, the average wait time was 18 weeks (4.5 months). Yet, you said that "it's 4-5 months to see a surgeon". Those are two different things. Either reading comprehension is something you don't excel at, or you're a manipulator. I'll add too that your link was from 2007 which at that point, this figure of just over 18 weeks was an all time high.

In your post, you stated "It would take me almost a year or more to get that type of attention in Canada" and "4-5 months to see a surgeon". How do you conclude that it would take you almost a year or more to get an MRI in Canada when the median wait time was 10.1 weeks? With that said, like I mentioned earlier, it doesn't take 4-5 months to see a surgeon, the entire process, from start to finish takes 4.5 months. Do you know how to comprehend what you read? It's no wonder why Fox News exists in the US, Americans are so easy to manipulate, but I don't buy your BS.

With the contents of this article aside, and MRI and surgery are something that only a small population goes through during their lifetime. To form a judgment from one component of a health care system and apply that judgment to the entire system is beyond ludicrous. That's like saying that the LA Clippers are a great team because they have Blake Griffin (one component) but in reality, their team sucks because the rest of the players suck (the entire system). Sure, wait times in Canada may be a little longer than in the US for MRIs and surgeries in general, but there's more to the system than that.

Now, I really don't want to get started about what fully encompasses a health care system, but I'll tell you about my own experience. About a month ago, I went to the doctor to get a regular check up. It took about 3-4 days from the day I called for the appointment to when I saw the doctor. When I saw the doctor, he cleared me for a physical, gave me the slips and told me to go to the clinic. I went to the clinic the very next day, and waited a total of maybe 10 minutes in line to give a urine sample, a blood sample and get a chest x-ray. These are facts, I'm not making this up like your "friend" from Calgary. If you want to dismiss this experience, go right ahead, but this is the typical care I receive. Ah also, do you know how much I paid for this? $0.00 like I would with any surgery or MRI.

Maybe you realize this, maybe you don't, health care in the US is a business, health care in Canada is a right. The US is the only industrialized nation in the world without a universal health care system. Can any nation seriously proclaim themselves as the greatest nation in the world when nearly 1/6th of the population has no public health insurance? The days of US dominance are dwindling my friend. Keep thinking your hot sh*t all you want if it makes you feel better, but the fact of the matter is that it's simply not the truth. Your unemployment is getting out of control. The US dollar is becoming more and more worthless each day. Obesity rates and the monsters they create are an eyesore. The US housing market and financial system have as solid a foundation as a house of cards. The US is the most hated nation in the world, why do you guys pretend you're Canadian when you travel overseas? Keep up your manipulating ways, you'll fool a lot of people, but you won't fool me.

[eleuropeano]

Somehow this discussion about US debt turned into a standard US-Canada health care/ww2 battle... US and Canada are like an old couple that fights all the time but at the same time understand they can't get a divorce either...

[rsnnh12]

You sir Madcap, are a manipulator of the facts. I'm going to tell you why you are a manipulator very soon, first I'd like to address this:

You said: "The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government"

I replied: Can you tell me how the restriction of Americans to play online poker/sportsbook wagering is consistent with what you just said?

You say wagering is different? How so? Your words:

"The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government". In your own words, the people of the US prefer the choice to play and accept the responsibility of online poker than to be told who, when and where they can play online poker by their government.

Please explain to me how this is different? Are you saying it's different now because it completely contradicts what you said? It's not different. Your freedoms are being ripped away from you. Your government bailed out powerhouse corporations to the tunes of hundreds of billions of dollars. Where is the "preference for freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice"? The freedoms you think you have and the freedom you actually have are two different things. Land of the Free? LOL my ass, that's the biggest scam your government has sold you. You have to wonder who's worse, your government for being so deceiving, or the general populace for buying into it? Either way, any rational person realizes how much of a ridiculous facade the US actually is.

Now, onto my next point. You stated that "So it's... 2-5 months to get an MRI". Maybe your reading comprehension isn't up to par, but the article stated that "The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks." This is 2.5 months, not 2-5 months. And don't tell me that it's 5 months because Newfoundland is a tiny fraction of Canada. If some ONE PERSON, for some unexplainable reason, waited 1 year, you would then change your statement to 2-12 months. Good effort in manipulating the facts though, you almost got away with it. The median wait time for an MRI was 2.5 months, not 2-5 months, for the record.

You also stated that "A friend of mine lives outside of Calgary, says MRI wait times are 6-8 months there". With the median wait time being 10.1 weeks (2.5 months roughly), how does it make any sense that your friend is waiting 6-8 months for an MRI? Does your friend exist or did you just make him up to build this case of yours? Median wait time of 2.5 months, yet your "friend" is waiting 6-8 months. I'll let the jury decide that one.

I just found this too:

Go to Page 12

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/products/wait_times_tables_aib_e.pdf

After seeing this, I'm absolutely positive that your friend doesn't exist and that you made him up. 50% of people received an MRI within 41 days (1.3 months) and 90% of people received their MRI within 136 days (4.5 months). Based on these figures, what is the probability that it takes 6-8 months to get an MRI in Alberta (which is where Calgary is for the geographically inclined)? Your friend is a ghost. You made that up.

Furthermore, the article stated that "...the Canadian health-care system, the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required". Since you couldn't comprehend this statement, it essentially meant that from start to finish, from going to see the first doctor, to having your surgery completed, the average wait time was 18 weeks (4.5 months). Yet, you said that "it's 4-5 months to see a surgeon". Those are two different things. Either reading comprehension is something you don't excel at, or you're a manipulator. I'll add too that your link was from 2007 which at that point, this figure of just over 18 weeks was an all time high.

In your post, you stated "It would take me almost a year or more to get that type of attention in Canada" and "4-5 months to see a surgeon". How do you conclude that it would take you almost a year or more to get an MRI in Canada when the median wait time was 10.1 weeks? With that said, like I mentioned earlier, it doesn't take 4-5 months to see a surgeon, the entire process, from start to finish takes 4.5 months. Do you know how to comprehend what you read? It's no wonder why Fox News exists in the US, Americans are so easy to manipulate, but I don't buy your BS.

With the contents of this article aside, and MRI and surgery are something that only a small population goes through during their lifetime. To form a judgment from one component of a health care system and apply that judgment to the entire system is beyond ludicrous. That's like saying that the LA Clippers are a great team because they have Blake Griffin (one component) but in reality, their team sucks because the rest of the players suck (the entire system). Sure, wait times in Canada may be a little longer than in the US for MRIs and surgeries in general, but there's more to the system than that.

Now, I really don't want to get started about what fully encompasses a health care system, but I'll tell you about my own experience. About a month ago, I went to the doctor to get a regular check up. It took about 3-4 days from the day I called for the appointment to when I saw the doctor. When I saw the doctor, he cleared me for a physical, gave me the slips and told me to go to the clinic. I went to the clinic the very next day, and waited a total of maybe 10 minutes in line to give a urine sample, a blood sample and get a chest x-ray. These are facts, I'm not making this up like your "friend" from Calgary. If you want to dismiss this experience, go right ahead, but this is the typical care I receive. Ah also, do you know how much I paid for this? $0.00 like I would with any surgery or MRI.

Maybe you realize this, maybe you don't, health care in the US is a business, health care in Canada is a right. The US is the only industrialized nation in the world without a universal health care system. Can any nation seriously proclaim themselves as the greatest nation in the world when nearly 1/6th of the population has no public health insurance? The days of US dominance are dwindling my friend. Keep thinking your hot sh*t all you want if it makes you feel better, but the fact of the matter is that it's simply not the truth. Your unemployment is getting out of control. The US dollar is becoming more and more worthless each day. Obesity rates and the monsters they create are an eyesore. The US housing market and financial system have as solid a foundation as a house of cards. The US is the most hated nation in the world, why do you guys pretend you're Canadian when you travel overseas? Keep up your manipulating ways, you'll fool a lot of people, but you won't fool me.

Do you not understand how taxes work? You don't pay $0 for your healthcare. Also, health care is NOT a right. Some people like to think it is (generally liberals and/or foreigners). Please explain to me how you have the right to health care, when it infringes on someone else's rights to receive that care?

I love how you keep mentioning Fox News. Hysterical. Guess when you can't come up with an argument or you know yours failed, resort to that, huh?

I have NEVER pretended to be a Canadian when overseas, and neither have many people I know. Following your lead, this is where I make a reference to your biased news, right? . That's a myth, but hey, whatever makes you feel better about your country, right? Who cares if we're hated? Its called jealousy. Every other country wants to be as important as the US, and almost all fail.

Good luck with your health care system if the US falls apart... who creates almost all of the technology and techniques, and who does most of the research, which is shared for next to nothing? Oh wait, we do. Our system drives the medical world to progress, yours uses that to give everyone decent care. Can't have 1 without the other

[denn333]

Visited canada last week for a couple days, friendliest people around.

[The Madcap]

You sir Madcap, are a manipulator of the facts. I'm going to tell you why you are a manipulator very soon, first I'd like to address this:

You said: "The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government"

I replied: Can you tell me how the restriction of Americans to play online poker/sportsbook wagering is consistent with what you just said?

You say wagering is different? How so? Your words:

"The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government". In your own words, the people of the US prefer the choice to play and accept the responsibility of online poker than to be told who, when and where they can play online poker by their government.

Please explain to me how this is different? Are you saying it's different now because it completely contradicts what you said? It's not different. Your freedoms are being ripped away from you. Your government bailed out powerhouse corporations to the tunes of hundreds of billions of dollars. Where is the "preference for freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice"? The freedoms you think you have and the freedom you actually have are two different things. Land of the Free? LOL my ass, that's the biggest scam your government has sold you. You have to wonder who's worse, your government for being so deceiving, or the general populace for buying into it? Either way, any rational person realizes how much of a ridiculous facade the US actually is.

Now, onto my next point. You stated that "So it's... 2-5 months to get an MRI". Maybe your reading comprehension isn't up to par, but the article stated that "The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks." This is 2.5 months, not 2-5 months. And don't tell me that it's 5 months because Newfoundland is a tiny fraction of Canada. If some ONE PERSON, for some unexplainable reason, waited 1 year, you would then change your statement to 2-12 months. Good effort in manipulating the facts though, you almost got away with it. The median wait time for an MRI was 2.5 months, not 2-5 months, for the record.

You also stated that "A friend of mine lives outside of Calgary, says MRI wait times are 6-8 months there". With the median wait time being 10.1 weeks (2.5 months roughly), how does it make any sense that your friend is waiting 6-8 months for an MRI? Does your friend exist or did you just make him up to build this case of yours? Median wait time of 2.5 months, yet your "friend" is waiting 6-8 months. I'll let the jury decide that one.

I just found this too:

Go to Page 12

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/products/wait_times_tables_aib_e.pdf

After seeing this, I'm absolutely positive that your friend doesn't exist and that you made him up. 50% of people received an MRI within 41 days (1.3 months) and 90% of people received their MRI within 136 days (4.5 months). Based on these figures, what is the probability that it takes 6-8 months to get an MRI in Alberta (which is where Calgary is for the geographically inclined)? Your friend is a ghost. You made that up.

Furthermore, the article stated that "...the Canadian health-care system, the average patient waited more than 18 weeks in 2007 between seeing their family doctor and receiving the surgery or treatment they required". Since you couldn't comprehend this statement, it essentially meant that from start to finish, from going to see the first doctor, to having your surgery completed, the average wait time was 18 weeks (4.5 months). Yet, you said that "it's 4-5 months to see a surgeon". Those are two different things. Either reading comprehension is something you don't excel at, or you're a manipulator. I'll add too that your link was from 2007 which at that point, this figure of just over 18 weeks was an all time high.

In your post, you stated "It would take me almost a year or more to get that type of attention in Canada" and "4-5 months to see a surgeon". How do you conclude that it would take you almost a year or more to get an MRI in Canada when the median wait time was 10.1 weeks? With that said, like I mentioned earlier, it doesn't take 4-5 months to see a surgeon, the entire process, from start to finish takes 4.5 months. Do you know how to comprehend what you read? It's no wonder why Fox News exists in the US, Americans are so easy to manipulate, but I don't buy your BS.

With the contents of this article aside, and MRI and surgery are something that only a small population goes through during their lifetime. To form a judgment from one component of a health care system and apply that judgment to the entire system is beyond ludicrous. That's like saying that the LA Clippers are a great team because they have Blake Griffin (one component) but in reality, their team sucks because the rest of the players suck (the entire system). Sure, wait times in Canada may be a little longer than in the US for MRIs and surgeries in general, but there's more to the system than that.

Now, I really don't want to get started about what fully encompasses a health care system, but I'll tell you about my own experience. About a month ago, I went to the doctor to get a regular check up. It took about 3-4 days from the day I called for the appointment to when I saw the doctor. When I saw the doctor, he cleared me for a physical, gave me the slips and told me to go to the clinic. I went to the clinic the very next day, and waited a total of maybe 10 minutes in line to give a urine sample, a blood sample and get a chest x-ray. These are facts, I'm not making this up like your "friend" from Calgary. If you want to dismiss this experience, go right ahead, but this is the typical care I receive. Ah also, do you know how much I paid for this? $0.00 like I would with any surgery or MRI.

Maybe you realize this, maybe you don't, health care in the US is a business, health care in Canada is a right. The US is the only industrialized nation in the world without a universal health care system. Can any nation seriously proclaim themselves as the greatest nation in the world when nearly 1/6th of the population has no public health insurance? The days of US dominance are dwindling my friend. Keep thinking your hot sh*t all you want if it makes you feel better, but the fact of the matter is that it's simply not the truth. Your unemployment is getting out of control. The US dollar is becoming more and more worthless each day. Obesity rates and the monsters they create are an eyesore. The US housing market and financial system have as solid a foundation as a house of cards. The US is the most hated nation in the world, why do you guys pretend you're Canadian when you travel overseas? Keep up your manipulating ways, you'll fool a lot of people, but you won't fool me.

Forsberg, you're really soiling the positive opinion I had of you.

For one, I thought you were sharp. But it's apparent to me, after your complete failure to grasp my response to your wagering question, that you're a dumbass who just likes to argue.

Two, you are so goddamned brainwashed into believing in the purity of your almighty health care system that you would rather believe I'd make up a story about some fictional Canadian than admit that from time to time your system screws up.

I mean seriously. He lives in Airdrie, he went skiing in Banff earlier in the spring and fukked his knee all to hell. Now he needs an MRI. And he's getting the run around. But I guess the only way you'll believe that is if I have the brother call you so you can talk about it. But then again, when his 403 area code shows up on your caller ID, something tells me you'll merely be convinced I bought a ticket to Calgary International, walked out to a pay phone, rang you up, and faked a Canadian accent because this is all some elaborate prank on my part to make you second guess your government. Jesus man. What the hell is wrong with you?

As for the rest: it's littered with so much emotional diarrhea I'm rather certain it's useless to even try reasoning with you. So I'll just leave a couple words for you to consider and dwell on and then you can come back when you're done menstruating.

1) As I've noted, I'm one of those folks without health insurance. It's not a problem for me. The only people it's a problem for in this country are people who don't speak English and those who are unwilling to give up spending money on beer and cigarettes for a few weeks to take their kids to the doctor. And that's their own fukking fault.

2) Your wagering issue: There's a difference between the American politician and the American people. When I say "WE" prefer freedom of choice, I mean "WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE." Not our dumbass government. We prefer the right to choose our own medical care, and we prefer the right to be able to gamble when and where we see fit. This is not a contradiction. The only contradiction is how our government does things. And our government is separate from the people. A concept that's apparently lost on you because you entrust your government to run your life for you. We down here are a bit more skeptical.

3) Manipulation: So you're saying in Canada I'd have the option of seeing three different specialists in a year?

Now who's the manipulator?

4) Waiting "a little longer" can be the difference between life and death.

5) Statistics: you should learn about them.

Do you know what % actually constitutes the median? You want me to accept your system on the whole because of the "median" experience. Well the "median" experience in the US is a citizen that has a health insurance plan that he was quite frickin' happy with and didn't want Obama to fuk with it.

You want to bash the US system because 1/6 of our population doesn't have health insurance, but then tell me we just need to ignore the wait time stats in Newfoundland because it's such a small % of the population in Canada. Well that 1/6th of the population is mostly guys like me. Guys in their mid 20's to early 30's who are either still in college, just starting careers, or moving on to others where they are more than likely to end up with insurance before too long. The % of the U.S. population without health insurance that actually conforms to the picture of impoverished masses you have in your head is probably a lot closer in number to that of the Labradorians waiting months on end for treatment.

6) I'm glad you're happy about the $0.00 you paid for your health care. But if you think about it, considering the higher taxes you pay over the years, I imagine the cost of your medical care + taxes in the long run isn't going to save you much more money than my medical care + taxes. And I didn't have to wait three times as long to get it.

Or maybe you don't pay much in taxes. Maybe you're one of those cowardly weakling little bitches who believes in living off the resources of others and that the successful should be forced to take care of the failures. Well some of us here in America have a bit more pride in ourselves than that. We have the will and desire to take care of ourselves.

7) I'm not trying to "fool you." You have your way, we have ours. You don't like our way, we don't like yours. So what? Why is that a fukking problem for you? WHY DO YOU CARE? What Canada does is your fukking business. It doesn't effect me one way or the other. All I'm telling you is why I like the way we do things. You don't have to like it. You can stay the fuk up in Canada.

[LineKrusher]

Thanks why You ALL need to vote team obama and his Czars out of OFFICE in 2012; they're ruining the economy almost to the point of no return..............

[forsberg21]

Forsberg, you're really soiling the positive opinion I had of you.

For one, I thought you were sharp. But it's apparent to me, after your complete failure to grasp my response to your wagering question, that you're a dumbass who just likes to argue.

Two, you are so goddamned brainwashed into believing in the purity of your almighty health care system that you would rather believe I'd make up a story about some fictional Canadian than admit that from time to time your system screws up.

I mean seriously. He lives in Airdrie, he went skiing in Banff earlier in the spring and fukked his knee all to hell. Now he needs an MRI. And he's getting the run around. But I guess the only way you'll believe that is if I have the brother call you so you can talk about it. But then again, when his 403 area code shows up on your caller ID, something tells me you'll merely be convinced I bought a ticket to Calgary International, walked out to a pay phone, rang you up, and faked a Canadian accent because this is all some elaborate prank on my part to make you second guess your government. Jesus man. What the hell is wrong with you?

As for the rest: it's littered with so much emotional diarrhea I'm rather certain it's useless to even try reasoning with you. So I'll just leave a couple words for you to consider and dwell on and then you can come back when you're done menstruating.

1) As I've noted, I'm one of those folks without health insurance. It's not a problem for me. The only people it's a problem for in this country are people who don't speak English and those who are unwilling to give up spending money on beer and cigarettes for a few weeks to take their kids to the doctor. And that's their own fukking fault.

2) Your wagering issue: There's a difference between the American politician and the American people. When I say "WE" prefer freedom of choice, I mean "WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE." Not our dumbass government. We prefer the right to choose our own medical care, and we prefer the right to be able to gamble when and where we see fit. This is not a contradiction. The only contradiction is how our government does things. And our government is separate from the people. A concept that's apparently lost on you because you entrust your government to run your life for you. We down here are a bit more skeptical.

3) Manipulation: So you're saying in Canada I'd have the option of seeing three different specialists in a year?

Now who's the manipulator?

4) Waiting "a little longer" can be the difference between life and death.

5) Statistics: you should learn about them.

Do you know what % actually constitutes the median? You want me to accept your system on the whole because of the "median" experience. Well the "median" experience in the US is a citizen that has a health insurance plan that he was quite frickin' happy with and didn't want Obama to fuk with it.

You want to bash the US system because 1/6 of our population doesn't have health insurance, but then tell me we just need to ignore the wait time stats in Newfoundland because it's such a small % of the population in Canada. Well that 1/6th of the population is mostly guys like me. Guys in their mid 20's to early 30's who are either still in college, just starting careers, or moving on to others where they are more than likely to end up with insurance before too long. The % of the U.S. population without health insurance that actually conforms to the picture of impoverished masses you have in your head is probably a lot closer in number to that of the Labradorians waiting months on end for treatment.

6) I'm glad you're happy about the $0.00 you paid for your health care. But if you think about it, considering the higher taxes you pay over the years, I imagine the cost of your medical care + taxes in the long run isn't going to save you much more money than my medical care + taxes. And I didn't have to wait three times as long to get it.

Or maybe you don't pay much in taxes. Maybe you're one of those cowardly weakling little bitches who believes in living off the resources of others and that the successful should be forced to take care of the failures. Well some of us here in America have a bit more pride in ourselves than that. We have the will and desire to take care of ourselves.

7) I'm not trying to "fool you." You have your way, we have ours. You don't like our way, we don't like yours. So what? Why is that a fukking problem for you? WHY DO YOU CARE? What Canada does is your fukking business. It doesn't effect me one way or the other. All I'm telling you is why I like the way we do things. You don't have to like it. You can stay the fuk up in Canada.

Why are you so mad bro? Relax, take it easy, don't pour your emotions out here like a girl!

First thing, your friend. From that report I sent earlier:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure.cihi.ca%2Fcihiweb%2Fproducts%2Fwait_times_tables_aib_e.pdf

Go to page 12.

FACT: 50% of patients in Alberta receive an MRI within 41 days
FACT: 90% of patients in Alberta receive an MRI within 136 days

FACT/FICTION: Your "friend" in Alberta says it takes 6-8 months (180-240 days) to get an MRI in Alberta.

Given the FACT that 90% of people in Alberta receive an MRI within 136 days, what are the chances that it took your friend from Calgary, Alberta 180-240 days to receive an MRI? Numbers don't lie and your story doesn't make any sense. I'm not talking about his accident, or Airdrie, or his 403 area code. I'm talking about cold, hard numbers. The story doesn't add up. Period. Now's the part when you can come out and say you embellished those 6-8 months just a little, at least you'll regain what little credibility you have left.

Going back to your ludicrous statement, "The people in this country prefer freedom of choice and the responsibility that comes with making that choice than to be told who, when, and where by the government", the recent online poker ban in the Land of the Free absolutely contradicts what you just said. I find this hilarious: "A concept that's apparently lost on you because you entrust your government to run your life for you. We down here are a bit more skeptical." Did you not see what your government did to you during the financial crisis? Your government mortgaged the future of the US to the Chinese in order to bailout multi billion dollar corporations with tax payers' money. Your children and their children will be paying off that debt. Skeptical? You're kidding me right? Americans are like sheep. They do what they are told and they obey authority. In order to raise the debt ceiling, your retirement pensions are going to take a hit. Why is no one doing anything about this in your country? Skeptical... LOL


This part is the best: "As for the rest: it's littered with so much emotional diarrhea I'm rather certain it's useless to even try reasoning with you." This is ironic because almost your entire post is a rant filled, fact-less, emotion outpour of this diarrhea you speak of.

You want to talk about statistics? The median was the statistic used in the article YOU posted earlier. That's the metric we've been using and although it's not an airtight reflection of the health care system, it's still a very good indicator. The median is all we have to go by from that article, so if you have any better sources that cite other statistics, feel free to post them. Otherwise, leave your pouting about a statistics to yourself.

"I'm glad you're happy about the $0.00 you paid for your health care. But if you think about it, considering the higher taxes you pay over the years, I imagine the cost of your medical care + taxes in the long run isn't going to save you much more money than my medical care + taxes. And I didn't have to wait three times as long to get it." Check this out:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001

Do you get my point, or do I have to explain it to you? Why would such a system even exist? Why would the city/town just not add on another $75 in property taxes to cover for fire protection. What kind of irrational system is this? Americans think they pay such low taxes, which is true, but your services are thin and bare. How can something like this happen in the US? This would NEVER happen in any other country on the entire planet. NEVER. Yet it happens in the great USA? LOL, there are reasons why the US is a complete and utter failure and this is one of them. That's just disgraceful.

Feel free to reply, but please keep your emotions to yourself and use facts and reason.

[bettilimbroke999]

Forsberg is one of those communist er I mean socialists (bc if you say communist ppl immediately realize what a fukin nut you are and run for the hills) that will only be happy when the world is like China makin 80 cents an hour living in complete poverty with per capita GDP of 4k vs the US 47k and completely enslaved by the government.

Ya see communists dont get the fact that communism has been a complete and abject failure and turned every country its existed in into a prison that ppl will swim across the Atlantic to get away from.

Communists preach about rights to health care whilst ignoring that when you turn over all your assets to the government you have no rights, in the US if you want health care go GET A FUCKIN JOB YA LAZY BUM, if you dont want health insurance (most ppl who cant afford it dont need it to protect their few assets anyway) then dont get it, I personally have health insurance, I pay 130/month for an individual plan with Humana that covers me up to 5 million dollars with a 2500 deductible, if you cant afford 130/month then I feel sorry for you but you are probably on every other sort of government welfare program, housing assistance, food stamps, earned income credit etc bc your lazy ass would make less to get a job then you would to suck those programs dry and honestly I dont feel like creating ANOTHER welfare program to keep the bums living large, plus it is ILLEGAL to refuse you medical treatment at a public hospital so just go to the hospital, get treated and when they send you the bill you just claim indigent status by proving you are a lazy bum with no assets and they write the bill off and you can continue spending that 130/month on lotto tickets instead

[ChileCheese]

Forsberg is one of those communist er I mean socialists (bc if you say communist ppl immediately realize what a fukin nut you are and run for the hills) that will only be happy when the world is like China makin 80 cents an hour living in complete poverty with per capita GDP of 4k vs the US 47k and completely enslaved by the government.

Ya see communists dont get the fact that communism has been a complete and abject failure and turned every country its existed in into a prison that ppl will swim across the Atlantic to get away from.

Communists preach about rights to health care whilst ignoring that when you turn over all your assets to the government you have no rights, in the US if you want health care go GET A FUCKIN JOB YA LAZY BUM, if you dont want health care then dont get it, I personally have health insurance, I pay 130/month for an individual plan with Humana that covers me up to 5 million dollars with a 2500 deductible, if you cant afford 130/month then I feel sorry for you but you are probably on every other sort of government welfare program, housing assistance, food stamps, earned income credit etc bc your lazy ass would make less to get a job then you would to suck those programs dry and honestly I dont feel like creating ANOTHER welfare program to keep the bums living large, plus it is ILLEGAL to refuse you medical treatment at a public hospital so just go to the hospital, get treated and when they send you the bill you just claim indigent status by proving you are a lazy bum with no assets and they write the bill off and you can continue spending that 130/month on lotto tickets instead

For the record. Communism has never failed, because it has never existed. The basic premise of communism is the removal of the state from our life and hence, no government bodies. You are referring to Bolshevism for example in the case of the Soviet failure. I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto if you really want to have an idea of what you are talking about.
I am not here to say communism, as the main social eco-system, would function any better than free market capitalism, but we have never seen the idea implemented in our modern world

[forsberg21]

3) Manipulation: So you're saying in Canada I'd have the option of seeing three different specialists in a year?

Now who's the manipulator?

4) Waiting "a little longer" can be the difference between life and death.

6) I'm glad you're happy about the $0.00 you paid for your health care. But if you think about it, considering the higher taxes you pay over the years, I imagine the cost of your medical care + taxes in the long run isn't going to save you much more money than my medical care + taxes. And I didn't have to wait three times as long to get it.

Or maybe you don't pay much in taxes. Maybe you're one of those cowardly weakling little bitches who believes in living off the resources of others and that the successful should be forced to take care of the failures. Well some of us here in America have a bit more pride in ourselves than that. We have the will and desire to take care of ourselves.

1. As long as your family doctor refers you, you can see as many specialists as you want in Canada, free of charge. You are only limited by the wait times, which were outlined by myself earlier and freed of your over exaggerations. I don't understand how the smiley faces and "manipulation" reference apply in this case?

2. "Waiting "a little longer" can be the difference between life and death." If you have a life threatening illness, you are immediately moved to the front of the line. Contrary to what Fox News has told you, Canadians do not die as a result of not getting treatment. Such news, if it were actually real, would make national headlines, administrators would be fired and serious lawsuits would follow.

3. Obviously the health care system is funded by taxes, that doesn't even need to be stated. Doctors don't work for free here. Again, I don't understand your personal attack when you stated "Maybe you're one of those cowardly weakling little bitches who believes in living off the resources of others". Maybe this is just another instance of you getting all emotional and incoherent and the only way you deal with it is like ranting like a little girl.

[forsberg21]

Forsberg is one of those communist er I mean socialists (bc if you say communist ppl immediately realize what a fukin nut you are and run for the hills) that will only be happy when the world is like China makin 80 cents an hour living in complete poverty with per capita GDP of 4k vs the US 47k and completely enslaved by the government.

Ya see communists dont get the fact that communism has been a complete and abject failure and turned every country its existed in into a prison that ppl will swim across the Atlantic to get away from.

Communists preach about rights to health care whilst ignoring that when you turn over all your assets to the government you have no rights, in the US if you want health care go GET A FUCKIN JOB YA LAZY BUM, if you dont want health insurance (most ppl who cant afford it dont need it to protect their few assets anyway) then dont get it, I personally have health insurance, I pay 130/month for an individual plan with Humana that covers me up to 5 million dollars with a 2500 deductible, if you cant afford 130/month then I feel sorry for you but you are probably on every other sort of government welfare program, housing assistance, food stamps, earned income credit etc bc your lazy ass would make less to get a job then you would to suck those programs dry and honestly I dont feel like creating ANOTHER welfare program to keep the bums living large, plus it is ILLEGAL to refuse you medical treatment at a public hospital so just go to the hospital, get treated and when they send you the bill you just claim indigent status by proving you are a lazy bum with no assets and they write the bill off and you can continue spending that 130/month on lotto tickets instead

Another irrational rant by broke999. Following your posts throughout these threads, it's obvious that you're getting dumber and dumber by the minute.

The US behaves in a socialist/communist way too. There is no such thing as pure capitalism, each country adopts certain aspects of both capitalism and socialism in the way they govern themselves.

When the US bailed out its banking system, they took money from tax payers and redistributed it to the corporations. This is a classic example of socialism. If you deny this, you are absolutely delusional. Your Medicare and Social Security are more examples of socialistic principles.

The US is the only industrialized nation in the world without a universal healthcare system. In my opinion, it's hilarious that you pay $1560 a year (this will increase when you age, you do know that, right?) for health insurance with a $2500 deductible. The deductible is what makes your system a scam. The only thing your $1560 covers you for is if/when you suffer a catastrophic loss. You still have to pay for all the small stuff, just like everyone else who doesn't pay the $1560 a year.

When the US finally realizes that a health care system should not be kept in the hands of a private insurer (their #1 priority is profits, you know that, right?), then only then should the US be considered a first world nation. A nation should never hold the health of citizens hostage to a private corporation whose main interest is to maximize profit and not the well being of the members it services.

[ChileCheese]

Did you know....
That the US pays a larger % of their GDP towards health care than Canada? Thats right.
The US actually spends more tax dollars on Health Care than Canadians, but get none of the benefits.
The system is just horribly flawed because as we all know... American value their "freedom".

[Cap dat 4ss]

Well, this certainly has been a lively and sharply debated discussion.

Madcap, American healthcare is good, theres no denying that. But whether it is better than Canadas is indeed a matter of opinion more than fact. There are other healthcare systems out there that do seem to be better than ours, Denmark comes to mind. In America we have a reactive system. We have horrible preventative healthcare here. We are also irresponsible in choosing who is a candidate for surgery. We constantly do heart surgeries on severe diabetics who smoke, people in their 90's with Alzheimer's disease and even do liver transplants for severe alcoholics. There is little regulation in who has surgery. It is costing our system 100's of millions of dollars a year, if not more. It certainly needs to be reformed. In places like Denmark and Canada, they wouldn't do surgery on any of the three examples above. And that is responsible.

Our system is unsustainable because the ones deciding who gets surgery or not are the same ones to benefit the most by doing the surgery.

And what freedoms do we have in America that Canadians don't have? Just curious. I've been there four times now in my life and never noted any difference in what I could do.

[The Madcap]

Well, this certainly has been a lively and sharply debated discussion.

Madcap, American healthcare is good, theres no denying that. But whether it is better than Canadas is indeed a matter of opinion more than fact. There are other healthcare systems out there that do seem to be better than ours, Denmark comes to mind. In America we have a reactive system. We have horrible preventative healthcare here. We are also irresponsible in choosing who is a candidate for surgery. We constantly do heart surgeries on severe diabetics who smoke, people in their 90's with Alzheimer's disease and even do liver transplants for severe alcoholics. There is little regulation in who has surgery. It is costing our system 100's of millions of dollars a year, if not more. It certainly needs to be reformed. In places like Denmark and Canada, they wouldn't do surgery on any of the three examples above. And that is responsible.

Our system is unsustainable because the ones deciding who gets surgery or not are the same ones to benefit the most by doing the surgery.

And what freedoms do we have in America that Canadians don't have? Just curious. I've been there four times now in my life and never noted any difference in what I could do.

I agree it's a matter of opinion. And as I pointed out to Forsberg, the flaws in America's system are more to my liking than the ones in Canada. As I told him, it's not about which system is better, it's about which system one prefers. What's good for him ain't good for me. And while America's system has a lot of problems that need to be fixed* I don't want Canada's solutions. Talk about unsustainable, both the British and Canadian systems are both headed for disaster. Much of the reason why the conservatives cleaned up in the most recent elections there.

*(breaking up the insurance collusion would be nice, but liberals are too damn busy aiming their pitchforks and torches at the rich to notice the monopolies our idiot government has created. But that's typical. Liberals tend to only blather about Sherman when they want to break up a useful company. Maybe it's because their politicians are just as much in bed with corporate America as the GOP. Wish they'd realize it.)

I agree our preventive medicine measures are weak as hell. Part of this is because so many American people don't really pay for their health care. Their employers (or the government) do. The best preventive medicine is exercise, proper diet, and limiting smoking and drinking. But we no longer feel responsible for this upkeep. The poorest people in the country feel they are entitled to behave as the richest do. Well it doesn't work that way.

I can't drink the way I could in my early 20's because it makes me feel like shit. I wish I could, but I just can't. It makes me jealous of my younger friends in their mid 20's and the crazy stories they tell me. At the same time, it doesn't mean I just get to go off and drink like that and miss work and not expect to get fired. Too many people in this country think they can risk their physical well being and that if they get hurt someone else should have to pay for them to get fixed. Again, it doesn't work that way. NOR SHOULD IT.

Most wealthy people, (not all, but most) have earned their keep. They have invented something, produced something, or provided something that enough people willingly want and are willing to pay for that they should be, and are, rewarded. We curse the rich as being evil oppressors, but at the end of the day, the successful are the greatest sign that freedom works. If you create something useful, or are useful yourself, then true democracy will reward you, that democracy being the freedom of individuals to willingly cede their income to you for what you've created. Forcing people to purchase something they don't think they need is the equivalent of theft. It is unfortunate that our government's rules and regulations are so complicated that the Wall St. pimps can use them to make themselves rich simply by shuffling paper around instead of actually producing something of tangible use. Maybe one day liberals and conservatives will see eye to eye in how to combat Wall St. and the banks, but I doubt it. Moving on...

While I myself don't much see the point in spending bundles of money to help keep a 90 year old diabetic living a few more months, I still like the idea that if that's what you want to spend your money on, you should be allowed to do so. So many of the great medical breakthroughs we have are due to the vanity of rich people who have thrown out gobs of cash to prolong their lives or that of a loved one.

And I disagree that old feeble people are taking up our resources. Our resources are limited because we aren't cranking out as many doctors/surgeons as we used to per capita, and that the medical profession has become so bogged down in red tape and needless bullshit stress that a lot of our more talented people are opting to simplify their lives as much as possible---which means fewer patients and fewer risks.

We also have fewer hospitals. This is due to many reasons, but it could certainly be remedied if American philanthropists would focus more of their attention here in America than overseas. Despite the fact that medicine has been turned into a for profit business, you'd still think we'd have more non-profit hospitals than we do. We don't because people don't see the need for them. Or when they do, the process has gotten so gaddam complicated nobody wants to bother messing with it. And that's the real shame of this whole thing. Medicinal care is going to get worse and worse because the smartest people in the country aren't going to keep pursuing such a career if it only leads to future headaches. I know plenty of children of doctors, nurses, etc my age whose parents have tried hard to steer them away from medicine. And that's sad. Depressing really. This whole thing is depressing.

The most depressing truth to me though is that everyone feels they deserve the best in existence. We want the best job, even if we aren't qualified for it. We want the best TV even if it's out of our price range. And we all want the best medical treatments ever invented, even if only a few hundred people in the country have had it. We want what we want, and we feel we shouldn't have to pay an arm and a leg to get it.

Back in the day we had backbone and self-awareness. Today we have weakness and envy. And that envy is what is destroying us. In a free society of 330 million different people, where some are smarter and dumber, faster and slower, stronger and weaker, more determined and more lazy, you're going to have people that turn into workaholics and acquire a lot, and you're going to have people that just want to kick back and will acquire little. Back in the day those that kicked back accepted the tradeoff. They accepted a more spartan, less material existence than those who busted their asses. Today the lazy are no longer willing to accept their more meager existence. They believe they're entitled to everything. Well everything has a cost. A great job with a high salary has the cost of higher stress, more hours on the job, and less time to raise a family. A crappy job with no stress means more time with the fam, but less money.

Years ago the people with less money looked out upon the rich and their fancy clothes and cars and labeled them shallow pretentious wasteful douchebags. Nowadays those with less money look out on the rich and the fleeting enjoyment they get out of their fancy toys and say "why can't I have that too? I should have that!" And they beg the government to give them the basics in life so they can spend their money on the toys. Life used to be about survival for the poorest in America, the dignity of that struggle, and the pride that came with it. Life for the poor used to be simple. Friends, family, and fukking. (Or faith for the more religious) Pretty good priorities if you ask me. Now they want their simple easy lives but also any plush amenity the rich can imagine for themselves.

Well everything has a cost. EVERYTHING.

Including great medical care. Some idiots see it as a right, but the reality is, it's a luxury. And just like every other luxury, those who can't afford all of the luxuries have to prioritize and pick their spots. Some go for the plasma screen. Some go for the big house. Some the fancy car. Our dollar doesn't go as far as it used to, mainly because the formerly upwardly-mobile middle class is getting it in the ass from the tax man and haven't had their rates lowered to account for real time and real dollars. (Mainly because successful liberals are contented self-satisfied jackasses who believe everyone else should live the way they do.) And when your dollar doesn't go as far as it used to, you have to start making cuts. Except us Americans are too weak, lazy, and accustomed to do it.

We think we shouldn't have to lower ourselves to eating just rice and beans for a while, or give up our nights out on the town, or our iphones, or our video games, or our weed. NO. We should be able to keep all that. Damn the recession and the down economy, we shouldn't have to make changes and sacrifices! No, we should be able to keep on living the easy and comfortable way we're used to. WELL LIFE DOESN'T FUKKING WORK THAT WAY. And I'm sick and tired of all these lazy fukking whiners bitching about how hard their lives are when our grandparents made it through shit load tougher times with fewer and fewer resources. They had to change. So do we. Or, rather, so do some of us. And that gets back to the real problem. ENVY. Some have to change, others don't. And those that do have to change to their ways of living become bitter, jealous, resentful pussies afraid to swallow their pride and pick up an extra damned job to make ends meet. WELL TOUGH FUKKING SHIT. That's life. Deal with it. Freedom comes at a cost. The cost of providing for yourself. If you don't want to face that cost, then you should be forced to give up your freedom. But you aren't. Because too many liberals are pussies who never had to face the music enough in their sheltered lives to realize what true sacrifice means and why and when it's necessary.

WOW. Sorry about that. Obviously I ran into one too many freeloaders today. I need a beer.

[The Madcap]

1. As long as your family doctor refers you, you can see as many specialists as you want in Canada, free of charge. You are only limited by the wait times, which were outlined by myself earlier and freed of your over exaggerations. I don't understand how the smiley faces and "manipulation" reference apply in this case?

2. "Waiting "a little longer" can be the difference between life and death." If you have a life threatening illness, you are immediately moved to the front of the line. Contrary to what Fox News has told you, Canadians do not die as a result of not getting treatment. Such news, if it were actually real, would make national headlines, administrators would be fired and serious lawsuits would follow.

3. Obviously the health care system is funded by taxes, that doesn't even need to be stated. Doctors don't work for free here. Again, I don't understand your personal attack when you stated "Maybe you're one of those cowardly weakling little bitches who believes in living off the resources of others". Maybe this is just another instance of you getting all emotional and incoherent and the only way you deal with it is like ranting like a little girl.

1) I didn't exaggerate. I accounted for more than the median. If all you want to account for is the median, well then we wouldn't be having this conversation, because the median American is quite satisfied with his medical care.

2) All I know is that the U.S. has higher cancer survival rates than Canada. And any doctor will tell you that this is because of the red tape you assholes have to deal with.

3) You don't understand my personal attack because you're an ignorant liberal slut who can't take no for an answer. If you could, if you could accept someone else having a different opinion than your own, you would have spent more time listening to my concerns instead of demanding I concede that Canada and their almighty health care system is far superior to America's.

If you would like to have intellectual conversation with someone Forsberg, than you need to approach it as one. All I want you to understand is why I prefer our system to yours. You meanwhile, seem on some emotionally charged crusade to validate why Canada is awesome and America sucks. And I don't really give a fuk. Now you've had my perspective. I can't say I need any more of yours. So unless you've got something useful or interesting, I'm moving on.

[vividjohn45]

country debt and banning offshore books. makes the world seem like a terrible place.

[treece]

united states is slowing turning into a communist state.

[wiseacre]

Sad but true

[ByeShea]

I am not here to say communism, as the main social eco-system, would function any better than free market capitalism, but we have never seen the idea implemented in our modern world

We've seen enough, comrade.

[george murphy]

The US will raise the price of gold

[big0mar]

LMAO at people that think this is a real issue

[cant call it]

Wealth and debt are opposites.
That is like saying our similarities are different.

[Cap dat 4ss]

LMAO at people that think this is a real issue

Omar, please expand. You can't make such a drastic statement and have no supporting evidence. Why is it not a real issue?

[Cap dat 4ss]

Madcap,
Nice post. Agree with most of your post, disagree on a few points but it was a nice post. I'll respond to later, as we're in a Tornado watch right now and gotta get ready for work soon. The oppurtunity costs of war has certainly been infrastructure here in America such as healthcare and education. Although, 40% of our budget goes to medicare and 20% goes to defense.

Anyways, just wanted to respond briefly while I could.