This is why liberal democrats are forever stupid....

[Dark Horse]

What church is that, DH? Or are the churches like all other systems? All corrupt?

You are quickly becoming my favorite contrarian.

No idea, but my guess is it was the one with the dogmatists who voted against internet gambling.

Which leads to the obvious question....

[moneyline]

Wow. I didn't realize we were fighting against an innocent regime run by Sadaam ... it is inexcusable how we actually knocked such a bastion of humanity out of power. After all, he and his minions were doing nothing but good for their people.

You don't think Iraq had nuclear ambitions?

Thanks for straightening that out, pal.

[MonkeyF0cker]

What costs are we paying for something that wasn't even true to begin with? And why aren't you pushing for war against North Korea and Iran? They've blatantly done it in your face. Or do you only want to kill people when your guy says you should?

[Dark Horse]

For the record, you put words into people's mouths quite a bit. (for instance, you're asking me if all systems are corrupt, implying that I have said such a thing; while in reality it was you who -wrongly- deducted that from my words.).

Not a very nice habit.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That's all he has for an argument. He can't actually provide logical rationale for anything. He's merely a sheep who thinks what he's told to think...

[moneyline]

Now I've got two contrarians (look it up, MF) ... thinking if you support a system, you are a sheep ... but if you are an "independent" thinker (read: one that accepts nothing), you are, what, the sheep herder (or perhaps the ground the sheep walk upon)???

[Dark Horse]

I don't 'question everything' (again, your words, but I'll adopt them), but I try to question a lot. I've found this a helpful habit, leading to greater understanding.

You on the other hand, judging from your Iraq comments, question nothing. Is that because you already know everything?

[moneyline]

Actually, we are similar that we both question things. Where we differ is, after I question both sides of an issue, I then actually choose a side. Try it sometime. It's liberating in a way (and removes the fence indents from your posterior) ...

[Dark Horse]

Again, you assume to know something you don't. Are you even aware of this (I don't know you well enough to call it an annoying habit, but the probabilities are fast shifting towards that) ?

[MonkeyF0cker]

Yes. Its obvious that we haven't chosen a side. And I appreciate the the attempted vocabulary lesson, friend. If there is anything you should be concerned with, it would be your own intellectual aptitude not mine.

[moneyline]

I am aware you type much, but say little. You pose questions, but rarely, if ever, give answers. Because of this, one is forced to either infer what you believe or just keep talking to what is, in effect, the equivalent of a brick wall.

(the latter is not much fun -- take my word for it)

[MonkeyF0cker]

Actually, we are similar that we both question things. Where we differ is, after I question both sides of an issue, I then actually choose a side. Try it sometime. It's liberating in a way (and removes the fence indents from your posterior) ...

It would seem odd that you would really question everything yet always end up choosing the same side you were told to choose. I guess they're always right and make no mistakes in your eyes. Ignorance is bliss. A free thinker indeed.

[Dark Horse]

I am aware you type much, but say little. You pose questions, but rarely, if ever, give answers. Because of this, one is forced to either infer what you believe or just keep talking to what is, in effect, the equivalent of a brick wall.

Perhaps my answers are in the form of questions.

This may be hard to comprehend for one so used to ready-made answers, from which to choose one; as if life were little more than a multiple choice exam.

I'd much rather ask questions than offer ready-made answers and appear like a little know-it-all as yourself.

[moneyline]

Don't both sides tell you what to choose? So by never choosing anything, you are a free thinker?

You are also an amoeba under that scenario, but that's another issue, I suppose ...

And DH, answering a question with a question is ... well, something that if both parties do the same thing, is like watching a dog chase his tail.

[MonkeyF0cker]

I am aware you type much, but say little. You pose questions, but rarely, if ever, give answers. Because of this, one is forced to either infer what you believe or just keep talking to what is, in effect, the equivalent of a brick wall.

(the latter is not much fun -- take my word for it)

The questions are an attempt at getting some sort of substantive response from you. I guess you're right. I haven't mentioned anything about the past three administrations, while you've been doing nothing but enamouring us with your vast worldly knowledge. Someday I too hope to achieve your level of ineptitude. Things would be so much simpler.

[moneyline]

I know, MF. It is so much easier to keep asking questions than to actually take an affirmative stance on anything. All of the great men of this world do the same as you. They never express an opinion and just keep asking questions.

(and they never come up with an answer)

You are walking in big footsteps, my friend. Step carefully.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Don't both sides tell you what to choose? So by never choosing anything, you are a free thinker?

You are also an amoeba under that scenario, but that's another issue, I suppose ...

And DH, answering a question with a question is ... well, something that if both parties do the same thing, is like watching a dog chase his tail.

I guess you really can't comprehend this in simple terms so I'll make it as elementary as I can. IT'S NOT ALL OR NOTHING, GENIUS. I don't agree with everything either side does. Anyone that does is a mental midget and has no thoughts of their own. Each issue is individual. I don't care about party stances, I care about the issue. Whatever side, if any, is in agreement with my evaluation of the ISSUE is the side that I agree with. I don't blatantly agree with either side on all issues. Unlike yourself.

[moneyline]

But, you see, the Republican party consistently is in step with more issues that are important to me than the Democrats ... parties don't change their views just because a different individual aspires to become president. So while I do not, and never have, agreed with everything that Republicans espouse, I have always agreed with more of the party's viewpoints, when compared to the Democrats.

Simple, really. Wish I had a paint-by-numbers to show it to you in terms you could grasp.

Now, go and ask another question. Please.

[MonkeyF0cker]

I know, MF. It is so much easier to keep asking questions than to actually take an affirmative stance on anything. All of the great men of this world do the same as you. They never express an opinion and just keep asking questions.

(and they never come up with an answer)

You are walking in big footsteps, my friend. Step carefully.

Once again, yeah, I haven't laid out a single stance in this thread yet. You can't honestly be this stupid, can you?

[moneyline]

Oops, I missed it. Your stance is that Bush's actions have been wrong repeatedly. You are good at saying what is wrong. Not so good at saying what is right. You state what should not have been done, but rarely state what should have been done.

In other words, you are worthless. A dime a dozen. Much more common than even a sheep.

[MonkeyF0cker]

But, you see, the Republican party consistently is in step with more issues that are important to me than the Democrats ... parties don't change their views just because a different individual aspires to become president. So while I do not, and never have, agreed with everything that Republicans espouse, I have always agreed with more of the party's viewpoints, when compared to the Democrats.

Simple, really. Wish I had a paint-by-numbers to show it to you in terms you could grasp.

Now, go and ask another question. Please.

Ok. Then list your disagreements with the Republican platform.

[Dark Horse]

MF, he doesn't care they kill 100,000 in a foreign country, as long as they protect unborn babies here.

Impossible to have a constructive conversation with dogmatists. But fun once in a while.

[moneyline]

I disagree with the death penalty. I disagree with the Republicans fascination with everyone owning guns. I disagree, to an extent, with the party's lack of a social conscience (but still feel the Dems 'hand out' policies are not the answer)

You see, my lifetime has been spent as an elementary school teacher, then a world traveler (backpacker) and now a trial attorney for the indigent (public defender). Surrounded by Democrats in all of these places ... but I still disagree with more Democratic stances than I do Republican.

If I were a sheep, I would not choose jobs surrounded by people with opposing views as I. I would just fall in lockstep with them or choose professions where I was surrounded by like thinkers.

If you see a sheep, you are standing near a mirror.

[Dark Horse]

I disagree with the death penalty. I disagree with the Republicans fascination with everyone owning guns. I disagree, to an extent, with the party's lack of a social conscience (but still feel the Dems 'hand out' policies are not the answer)

You see, my lifetime has been spent as an elementary school teacher, then a world traveler (backpacker) and now a trial attorney for the indigent (public defender). Surrounded by Democrats in all of these places ... but I still disagree with more Democratic stances than I do Republican.

If I were a sheep, I would not choose jobs surrounded by people with opposing views as I. I would just fall in lockstep with them or choose professions where I was surrounded by like thinkers.

If you see a sheep, you are standing near a mirror.

How can you come up with such a conclusion?

You think working amidst those who think differently makes you an independent thinker?

And then you conclude, after concluding that you are not a sheep (your analogy, in which I have no interest), because you and I disagree, I must be a sheep.

Promise me one thing. Never represent me in a trial.

[moneyline]

DH, I know, once again, this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but have you noticed I am carrying on a conversation with two different people?

(hint: you are not both of them)

Also, for the sake of argument, if I was speaking to you, I said IF you see a sheep, you are standing in front of a mirror. That means -- I'll type it slowly -- that I am not one. Whether or not you are is for you to decide.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Oops, I missed it. Your stance is that Bush's actions have been wrong repeatedly. You are good at saying what is wrong. Not so good at saying what is right. You state what should not have been done, but rarely state what should have been done.

In other words, you are worthless. A dime a dozen. Much more common than even a sheep.

That would be because there is very little the Bush administration has done right. You've never asked what I thought should have been done but I'd gladly explain it to you issue by issue. I have disagreed with most of Bush's policies and always have an opinion on the proper course of action. However, I was merely listing the vast ineptitude in this administration. Next time, I'll write out a complete 20 page thesis for every opinion I have...

[moneyline]

MF, how novel. You are a critic who sits back in the cheap seats, sniping at everything and offering no alternatives without someone spurring you on to do so.

You really aren't a sheep. I apologize. You are a pioneer.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Yes. The guy who voted for Clinton then voted for Bush is a sheep. I obviously follow party lines strictly. The true definition of a sheep...

[MonkeyF0cker]

MF, how novel. You are a critic who sits back in the cheap seats, sniping at everything and offering no alternatives without someone spurring you on to do so.

You really aren't a sheep. I apologize. You are a pioneer.

You really must be a terrible lawyer. This has absolutely no relevance to what was discussed earlier. If you wanted alternatives, I would have given them to you, Gumbo. You could have easily asked. At least Bush is helping out the foreign tourists and married college graduates though.

[moneyline]

Perhaps you are a person who votes for an individual over an ideoogy. Back to being an aemoba, are you?

(I forgot, you don't give opinions without somebody asking you for them, even in the middle of a debate -- you can go to the bathroom now, if you need to ... you have my permission)

[MonkeyF0cker]

What? You can't pinpoint me as an amoeba or a sheep now? Could it be that its because I think for myself? Yes I vote for the person. Whichever candidates positions are more aligned with me I vote for. If I don't trust the candidate and think they are shady, I vote for the other person or (GET THIS!) a third party candidate!!!! Holy shit! No way!

[MonkeyF0cker]

By the way, you, as always, continue to remain a sheep...

[moneyline]

Touche.

(how was your trip to the bathroom)

[Cappy]

I also hate liberal democrats!

[Cappy]

to be more specific I hate:
liberal democrats < conservative democrats < okra < libertarians < republicans < religious zealots who deliberately lead people away from the good in this world < neo-cons < bigots and fascists < cancer < GW

But really if you could take the last three (GW, cancer and bigots) and put them on a boat together for all eternity I'd pay for pay-per-view to watch the reality show.