MY BUDDY has LOST HIS MIND ---- ANYONE KNOW ABOUT (SC)AMWAY

[pico]

if your friend is a dumbass, then he needs to get even dumber people to sell under him. that is not going to turn out well.

i would just not talk to him for 6 months cuz every time he talks to you will be a pain in the ass.

MLM might work, but you got to have pretty thick skin to make it work cuz you'll see lots of rejections before you make any money.

[pico]

......

[THE PROFIT]

so you're gonna gain 10lbs by eating a case of cookies before they spoil just to not hear his shit???

I think it would be cheaper & healthier to find a new friend

[nobs]

yeah but I am kind of looking forward to throwing the "I told you so's" in his face for a couple of months

[pico]

[BestPlay2day]

Lost a couple of friends over Amway. They got into it and every word out of their mouth was about Amway. They were going to all of the seminars and they kind of brainwash you into believing their bullshit. Most the shit in their house was bought from Amway, and when my wife and I weren't interested in joining, we drifted apart from this couple. You can do well in Amway for extra cash but the key is suckering enough people to join under you so you're not at the bottom of the pyramid. He was working 3 jobs at the time and was probably looking for an easy way to make cash and not work all the time. They didn't do well in Amway last we heard from them a long time ago.

[beanbag]

thats pretty weird stuff man.. don't know about it at all

[jwbama23]

People keep calling it a pyramid. Pyramids are illegal. Its MLM and really the business model is not a bad idea. I wish I could think of a succesful MLM to start.

If you think about it from the "pyramid" standpoint....isnt corporate America the biggest Pyramid of them all? You go to work assuming entry level and try to work your self up. The chance of any one person who joins a company to ever become owner/ceo/president or whatever is slim to none. You do all of your work on the bottom to help the guys up top make all the money. Mean while you studied for years of school and if you go to college pay tons of money for what, get a job that starts you at 35k per year?

What about the government or the military. Huge "Pyramids". Assuming you join the military after hs you start as an E1 but how high can you climb the ladder? How many will ever become a General?

I know it sounds like Im defending Amway but im not im just stating the fact that the term pyramid is over used and its not the word to describe Mary Kay or Amway. I again think if someone wants to join one of these said companies or Mona Vie or Noni or whatever that is fine as long as they dont believe the get rich quick hype. Everyone I know that has made money in these ventures had to work there ever lovin ass off to get it going but they made a lot more money afterwards than the guy who is working the 9-5.

Ive studied many types of businesses and am an entrepreneur myself. I would much rather sling over priced soap and some type of "wonder juice that saves the world from every disease ever" than work for a boss any day of the week. If someone understands what they are taking on by joining one of these more power to them. At least they have the courage to try to break away from the pack and we all know the people who hang around the pack their whole life will never build substantial wealth.

[wtf]

good point jw

a good friend of mine used to source all of the products for mary K, of course all that crap is made in china, he made almost a 100 million himself on this, sold out a few years ago

little known fact about mary k, the top are all men

they try to portray it as run totally by and owned by women

[Doug]

I did it briefly in the early 80's. Most will fail miserably. The products are decent.

You're about as likely to suceed with this as you are betting.

[adlai]

i know people that have done quite well with amway type organizations. the key to success in bringing in other suckers. you're a nobody in these companies until you recruit others.

[beach nut]

All multi level marketing operations are scams. Real businesses don't have to sell their employees books, cd's, and dvd's to make them better sales people. A real business would happily give their employees whatever was necessary to make them more effective at their job. Also multi level marketing operations hire everyone. They don't turn anyone away who is willing to drink their kool-aid and buy their garbage. I'm sure that even McDonalds turns some applicants away.

[ByeShea]

Scamway has been around forever thanks to suckers like your friend.

It's a pyramid and nothing more. I know someone who fell for it and they had to buy the "tape of the month" or "book of the month" from their mentors every month. It's a scam. Stay away from it.

See if you recognize this pyramid scheme:


1 CEO makes $10 million annual

8 Directors make $1 million

50 VPs make $200-500k

5,000 grunts make $25-$75k

---------------------------------------------

Guess which group works the longest hours, the worst benefits, no access to the company fitness center, and has to buy coffee from a vending machine?

If you can't be management gtfo and start your own business. I don't know much about Amway (besides people tend to hate it) but I do know that if someone wanted to learn the basic skills of sales a place like that might not be a bad place to start. Friends are overrated anyway, always bustin' your balls, borrowing money, etc..

[mmike032]

Ten Big Lies of Multilevel Marketing

Robert L. Fitzpatrick

The multilevel marketing (MLM) field grows, and its member companies multiply. Solicitations to join seem to be everywhere. Its promoters would like you to believe that it is the wave of the future, a business model that is gaining momentum, growing in acceptance and legitimacy, and will eventually replace most other forms of marketing. Many people are led to believe that success will come to anyone who believes in the system and adheres to its methods.
Unfortunately, the MLM business model is a hoax that is hidden beneath misleading slogans. Calling it a "great business opportunity" makes no more sense than calling the purchase of a lottery ticket a "business venture" and winning the lottery a "viable income opportunity for everyone." MLM industry claims of distributor income potential, its glorified descriptions of the "network'" business model, and its prophecies of dominating product distribution have as much validity in business as UFO sightings do in the realm of science.
The very legality of the MLM system rests tenuously upon a single 1979 court ruling on one company. The guidelines for legal operation set forth in that ruling are routinely ignored by the industry. Lack of governing legislation or oversight by any designated authority also enables the industry to endure despite occasional prosecutions by state attorneys general or the FTC.
MLM's economic scorecard is characterized by massive failure rates and financial losses for millions of people. Its structure in which positions on an endless sales chain are purchased by selling or buying goods is mathematically unsustainable, and its system of allowing unlimited numbers of distributors in any market area is inherently unstable. MLM's espoused core business -- personal retailing -- is contrary to trends in communication technology, cost-effective distribution, and consumer buying preferences. The retailing activity is, in reality, only a pretext for the actual core business, which is enrolling investors in pyramid organizations that promise exponential income growth.
As in all pyramid schemes, the incomes of those distributors at the top and the profits to the sponsoring corporations come from a continuous influx of new investors at the bottom. Viewed superficially in terms of company profits and the wealth of an elite group at the pinnacle of the MLM industry, the model can appear viable to the uninformed, just as all pyramid schemes do before they collapse or are prosecuted by authorities.
The growth of MLM is the result of deceptive marketing that plays upon treasured cultural beliefs, social and personal needs, and some economic trends, rather than its ability to meet any consumer needs. The deceptive marketing is nurtured by a general lack of professional evaluation or investigation by reputable business media. Consequently, there is widespread belief that MLM is a viable business investment or career choice for nearly everyone and that the odds of financial success in the venture are comparable or better than other employment or business ventures.
MLM's true constituency is not the consuming public but hopeful investors. The market for these investors grows significantly in times of economic transition, globalization, and employee displacement. Promises of quick and easy financial deliverance and the linking of wealth to ultimate happiness also play well in this market setting. The marketing thrust of MLM is directed to prospective distributors, rather than product promotions to purchasers. Its true products are not long distance phone services, vitamins, or skin creams, but the investment propositions for distributorships which are deceptively portrayed with images of high income, low time requirements, small capital investments, and early success.
Here are ten lies I have identified during more than 20 years of observing the MLM marketplace:
Lie #1: MLM offers better opportunities than all other conventional
business and professional models for making large amounts of money.

Truth: For almost everyone who invests, MLM turns out to be a losing financial proposition. Fewer than 1% of all MLM distributors ever earn a profit and those earning a sustainable living at this business are a much smaller percentage still.
Extraordinary sales and marketing obstacles account for much of this failure, but even if the business were more feasible, sheer mathematics would severely limit the opportunity. The MLM business structure can support only a small number of financial winners. If a 1,000-person downline is needed to earn a sustainable income, those 1,000 will need one million more to duplicate the success. How many people can realistically be enrolled? Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers. With no limits on numbers of distributors in an area and no evaluation of market potential, the system is also inherently unstable.

Lie #2: Network marketing is the most popular and effective new way to bring products
to market. Consumers like to buy products on a one-to-one basis in the MLM model.

Truth: Personal retailing -- including nearly all forms of door-to-door selling -- is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and engage in potentially awkward business relationships with close friends and relatives. In reality, MLM depends on reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.

Lie #3: Eventually all products will be sold by MLM. Retail stores, shopping malls,
catalogs and most forms of advertising will soon be rendered obsolete by MLM.

Truth: Fewer than 1% of all retail sales are made through MLM, and much of this is consists of purchases by hopeful new distributors who are actually paying the price of admission to a business they will soon abandon. MLM is not replacing existing forms of marketing. It does not legitimately compete with other marketing approaches at all. Rather, MLM represents a new investment scheme couched in the language of marketing. Its real products are distributorships that are sold through misrepresentation and exaggerated promises of income. People are buying products in order to secure positions on the sales pyramid. The possibility is always held out that you may become rich if not from your own efforts then from some unknown person ("the big fish") who might join your "downline."
MLM's growth does not reflect its value to the economy, customers, or distributors, but the high levels of economic fear, insecurity, wishes for quick and easy wealth. The market dynamics are similar to those of legalized gambling, but the percentage of winners is much smaller.

Lie #4: MLM is a new way of life that offers happiness and fulfillment.
It provides a way to attain all the good things in life.

Truth:The most prominent motivational themes of the MLM industry, as shown in industry literature and presented at recruitment meetings, constitute the crassest form of materialism. Fortune 100 companies would blush at the excess of promises of wealth, luxury, and personal fulfillment put forth by MLM solicitors. These appeals actually conflicts with most people's true desire for meaningful and fulfilling work at something in which they have special talent or interest.

Lie #5: MLM is a spiritual movement.

Truth: The use of spiritual concepts like prosperity consciousness and creative visualization to promote MLM enrollment, the use of words like "communion" to describe a sales organization, and claims that MLM fulfills Christian principles or Scriptural prophecies are great distortions of these spiritual practices. Those who focus their hopes and dreams upon wealth as the answer to their prayers lose sight of genuine spirituality as taught by religions. The misuse of these spiritual principles should be a signal that the investment opportunity is deceptive. When a product is wrapped in the flag or in religion, buyer beware! The "community" and "support" offered by MLM organizations to new recruits is based entirely upon their purchases. If the purchases and enrollment decline, so does the "communion.'"

Lie #6: Success in MLM is easy. Friends and relatives are the natural prospects.
Those who love and support you will become your life-time customers.

Truth: The commercialization of family and friendship and the use of"'warm leads" advocated in MLM marketing programs are a destructive element in the community and very unhealthy for individuals involved. People do not appreciate being pressured by friends and relatives to buy products. Trying to capitalizing upon personal relationships to build a business can destroy one's social foundation.

Lie #7: You can do MLM in your spare time. As a business, it offers the greatest flexibility
and personal freedom of time. A few hours a week can earn a significant supplemental income
and may grow to a very large income, making other work unnecessary.

Truth: Making money in MLM requires extraordinary time commitment as well as considerable personal skill and persistence. Beyond the sheer hard work and talent required, the business model inherently consumes more areas of one's life and greater segments of time than most occupations. In MLM, everyone is a prospect. Every waking moment is a potential time for marketing. There are no off-limit places, people, or times for selling. Consequently, there is no free space or free time once a person enrolls in MLM system. While claiming to offer independence, the system comes to dominate people's entire life and requires rigid conformity to the program. This is why so many people who become deeply involved end up needing and relying upon MLM desperately. They alienate or abandon other sustaining relationships.

Lie #8. MLM is a positive, supportive new business that
affirms the human spirit and personal freedom.

Truth: MLM is largely fear-driven. Solicitations inevitably include dire predictions about the impending collapse of other forms of distribution, the disintegration or insensitivity of corporate America, and the lack of opportunity in other occupations. Many occupations are routinely demeaned for not offering"unlimited income." Working for others is cast as enslavement for "losers." MLM is presented as the last best hope for many people. This approach, in addition to being deceptive, frequently discourages people who otherwise would pursue their own unique visions of success and happiness. A sound business opportunity does not have to base its worth on negative predictions and warnings.

Lie #9. MLM is the best option for owning your own
business and attaining real economic independence.

Truth: MLM is not true self-employment. "Owning" an MLM distributorship is an illusion. Some MLM companies forbid distributors to carry other companies' products. Most MLM contracts make termination of the distributorship easy and immediate for the company. Short of termination, downlines can be taken away arbitrarily. Participation requires rigid adherence to a "duplication" model, not independence and individuality. MLM distributors are not entrepreneurs but joiners in a complex hierarchical system over which they have little control.

Lie #10: MLM is not a pyramid scheme because products are sold.

Truth: The sale of products does not protect against anti-pyramid-scheme laws or unfair trade practices set forth in federal and state law. MLM is a legal form of business only under rigid conditions set forth by the FTC and state attorneys general. Many MLMs are violate these guidelines and operate only because they have not been prosecuted. Recent court rulings are using a 70% rule to determine an MLM's legality: At least 70% of all goods sold by the MLM company must be purchased by nondistributors. This standard would place most MLM companies outside the law. The largest MLM acknowledges that only 18% of its sales are made to nondistributors.

Accountability Needed
An FTC trade regulation rule that forces honest disclosure of potential MLM distributor income is desperately needed. Toward this end, Pyramid Scheme Alert has launched a petition drive urging the FTC to force multilevel companies to disclose the true income of their distributors. The requested data would include: (a) the total number of distributors involved in the company for at least three years (or since the company's founding if less than three years); (b) the average incomes of all distributors who have signed up for a distributorship by percentiles, not just the ones deemed "active"; and (c) a "weighted" overall average income of all distributors so that the extraordinary high incomes of the small number at the top are not calculated in with vast majority so as to give a more statistically valid figure.
_________________
Mr. FitzPatrick consults and writes about trends in manufacturer/distributor relationships. He founded and is president of Pyramid Scheme Alert, a consumer advocacy group focused on exposing and preventing pyramid schemes. He has served as an expert witness in several cases involving pyramid schemes and MLM companies. He writings include False Profits (a book about MLM deception) and "Pyramid Nation" (a booklet that laments the growth and "legalization" of pyramid schemes.)

http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/10lies.html

[Slainte]

MLM is pretty much like gambling, many try, very few have success and win for real The very few that actually make money advocate for MLM, the majority says it's a scam. Ask 1000-2000 random people about sports investing and compare the answers!

[Pharieswheel]

scamway

I was in Amway in 1979, did okay, but had nothing like they got now. You don't need a direct distributor anymore, just give catalogs to people, and they order direct and have it delivered UPS. no more picking up and delivering. I'm going to do it now.

[Dark Horse]

If you don't get in early, forget it. If you want to make money, look at real estate. Forget this Mickey L Mouse shit.

[BatemanPatrickl]

These assholes hang out at Target, Panera Bread and wherever they can talk to a few suits. I've been in Target before after work and have had some dude approach me asking about my shoes? They are taught to lead in with a random questions like "Where is the milk" and then try and develop a conversation. You can spot these douchebags a mile away just looking for some Rainman looking ************ wandering around. They look so out of place.

Had a guy ask me about my car and trust me there was nothing special about my car.

[ijenpo]

I wanna be the next apprentice

[ronald]

NOBS, don't listen to all these NON-BELIEVERS!

Do you want to make money? Yesssssss.

Do you believe that it will work? Yessssss.

Do you want great products? Yesssss.

LEEEEEOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[Hoja Verdes]

I'd tell him the same thing I told my wife when she almost let some girlfriend talk her into selling Arbonne makeup (similar MLM scheme).

It all depends on when you get on board. If your particular market is already saturated, the competition will be stiff.

And if they want practical evidence supporting your position, tell them to take a price list of the stuff they need to sell, then go look at the prices on e-bay. We found that e-bay was overrun with women who had bought tons of the Arbonne make-up crap, realized it wasn't going to sell, then put it on e-bay at cost just to get rid of the crap. Good luck competing with those prices.

It's a lot like gambling. If you work at it and have a good head on your shoulders, you can make money doing it. But if it were as easy as signing up and watching the money roll in, we'd all be living in a penthouse in Vegas.

[daneault23]

Hey Nobs, I have/had a friend who somehow got involved with the World Financial Group. For months, that is all he would talk about and how great it was and how rich he was gonna be. They had similar seminars and shit every week, twice a week, and would always want me to go, looking for new people to lure in. Basicallly, all my friends who were his friends got involved and I don't talk to them much anymore. Although, I know recently he's been trying to work his ass off all the time at a BCBG store which is kinda funny cuz he was always talkin about the money he would make from WFG. The only people that make money from those things are the ones on top.

I even went to one of those seminars and all the guys started talking to me and said I was a prime candidate and shit, and then without really knowing what the fukk was going on, they kinda led me into this room and asking me about my goals in life and if there was any reason why I wouldn't want to do this. Lol funny experience. But yeah I think the WFG is similar to Amway, and I also noticed most of the ppl who were at those meetings were young mid 20s minorities. Hardly saw any white or older people. Seem like they start young.

[venice2222]

Their business seems screwed since everyone can buy things online.

[yurnero]

it will depend on how good your buddy is at making the sales pitch and being successful. like jayz once said "hustle cane, hustle clothes, hustle music, but hustle hard in any hustle you pick" i believe if he isnt a total idiot, and works hard, he should be okay. its all about networking and interacting with people, so hopefully your buddy is good with people and sales.

i am not a fan of multi level marketing but i have met a friend of my mom's that made over 15k a month with it so its def possible

[DrunkHorseplayer]

To the OP: Don't worry about your friend; in time he will learn that only super-salespeople will make money with Amway and he'll realize that he's been had. Do advise him that the best course of action would be to stiff Amway for as much as he can then challenge them to meet him in court if they want to collect.

[VegasAddict]

Lost a couple of friends over Amway. They got into it and every word out of their mouth was about Amway. They were going to all of the seminars and they kind of brainwash you into believing their bullshit. Most the shit in their house was bought from Amway, and when my wife and I weren't interested in joining, we drifted apart from this couple. You can do well in Amway for extra cash but the key is suckering enough people to join under you so you're not at the bottom of the pyramid. He was working 3 jobs at the time and was probably looking for an easy way to make cash and not work all the time. They didn't do well in Amway last we heard from them a long time ago.

My experience is exactly this. My ex-g/f's sister and her husband got involved in this back in 2001. We met them in Vegas for a few days, and it was obvious that the cult was in full effect. There we were, on the Strip in Vegas, and all they can talk about is Nutrilite and going back to the hotel by 7pm because they had to listen to the "tape of the day", which I guess they bought through their upline person. Add to that the constant pestering about buying products and getting involved myself (to be their downline) and I was fed up! He even asked me if he could "borrow" $1500, since I was in Vegas and "had the money".

What a shitty scam.

[nobs]

Thanks for the responses. Just as I thought, he might make a little but he wont stick with this long because he is thinking he will make $250,000 by 2012. That wont happen.

I tried to talk to him at work today, it took about 3 words before he said Amway. I am going to avoid this guy for a few months and then after it blows up on him, every time I see him I will say so how is Amway ? How are the nutralite's selling. Trust me he deserves it.

[THE PROFIT]

Thanks for the responses. Just as I thought, he might make a little but he wont stick with this long because he is thinking he will make $250,000 by 2012. That wont happen.

I tried to talk to him at work today, it took about 3 words before he said Amway. I am going to avoid this guy for a few months and then after it blows up on him, every time I see him I will say so how is Amway ? How are the nutralite's selling. Trust me he deserves it.

I would invite him over to watch some bowls next week & have a counter full of Centrum & GNC vitamins and 2 fukin cases of Full Throttle & Red Bull in the fridge.

He would fukin explode & you wouldnt have to worry with telling him to fuk off

[nobs]

lol.

good idea, that would be funny as hell

[DrDivine]

A lot of people here have made some valid points and a lot of others have made some pretty ignorant statements. Amway is a legitimate business system that only works if you work it. I have been an IBO myself and have been surrounded by other IBOs that are highly successful. The key to making it work is not by getting other "suckers" to take part in it.

There are two major factors that will fuel your success and the success of others in Amway:

1) Buying products through Amway that you are already spending money on. Food, Drinks, Toilet Paper, Vitamins, Detergent, etc.. This way you are not really spending too much more money than you are already spending. You basically are just shifting your buying habits.

2) Putting new people that you sign up into a "taproot" downline before starting other downlines underneath yourself that only benefit you and those above you. The "taproot" downline keeps everyone excited as they can see their businesses continuing to grow. I've seen people use ratios of around 4 to 1 for this. Example: When they sign someone up, this person goes directly underneath them and the next person goes directly underneath the previous person and so on. When the fifth person is signed up, the original IBO will start an additional leg underneath themselves with that fifth person. There are a few more details to how this works out but it's a crucial part of the process.

Although easily mistaken by the uneducated, it's not a pyramid scheme and when the right people are sought out, it's a very viable business. Like any business that you choose to start you can expect to spend a lot of time building it in the beginning. There are plenty of home based businesses out there, some more profitable than others. Amway is one with a long track record, one with good and bad opinions. And a lot of millionaires.

[agharah1]

I know lots of people who make money on Amway: the people who work at their plant in Lowell, MI who actually make the stuff the distributors can't sell.

That being said, there are plenty of other scams that are worse. Retail spot forex comes to mind. I've almost won back my forex losses betting on sports.

I had a friend who worked on Wall Street, and he told me if you want to be consistently profitable you have to be really really good at something. Well, the average American spends more time watching MNF than CNBC, yet investing is noble while sports betting is wrong. At least they do a better job of policing match-fixing in sports than on Wall Street.

[trmg777]

Been there, seen it, done it, and regretted it quickly thereafter. If your friend doesn't have money or he's jumping into it full time from the get go, he will get hung out to dry in less than a year.

[trmg777]

David Spade doing the voice on that?

[marcoloco]

not a scam, it would of been shut down by now. tried it years ago. wasnt for me, did awful. had a couple friends who are doing well in their. around 50k a year.

[KKoz9]

All multi level marketing operations are scams. Real businesses don't have to sell their employees books, cd's, and dvd's to make them better sales people. A real business would happily give their employees whatever was necessary to make them more effective at their job. Also multi level marketing operations hire everyone. They don't turn anyone away who is willing to drink their kool-aid and buy their garbage. I'm sure that even McDonalds turns some applicants away.

Actually not. I am involved in one at the moment and doing quite well and haven't bought or been pushed to buy a damn thing except the core products of the company.

It's really not rocket science either. The key is to research your opportunities/payplan, follow exactly what others who have had success are doing, treat it like a real job, and most of all...make sure it's a quality, credible product(s) that people actually need or want.