Help...what is the definitive LAW on places of business running FOOTBALL SQUARES?

[Fishhead]

???

Is there any FEDERAL LAW against this.............I'm sure there are STATE and LOCAL laws for a place of business.

Any help would be appreciated in this matter.


THANKS

[Fishhead]

I know many places in ST. PETERSBURG, FLOIDA(BARS AND TAVARNS) have these, so they must not be breaking any laws on any level if .......

1. THEY PAY BACK 100% TO CUSTOMERS AND HAVE NO HOUSE HOLD

2. THEY KEEP UNDER A CERTAIN MAXIMUM PER SQUARE

[minet123]

Fishy
Some bible belt states are throwing old ladies in jail for running home poker games
and there is no rake and probably cost them money in food and beer
unless it's hidden under the guise of god i.e. church casino night
why take the risk

[Fishhead]

Well, as stated, numerous watering holes in ST.PETE offer these up.........a couple at $100 per sqaure.

[eidolon]

I know many places in ST. PETERSBURG, FLOIDA(BARS AND TAVARNS) have these, so they must not be breaking any laws on any level if .......

1. THEY PAY BACK 100% TO CUSTOMERS AND HAVE NO HOUSE HOLD

2. THEY KEEP UNDER A CERTAIN MAXIMUM PER SQUARE

That is biggest rule not to break. Don't break that and you shouldn't have any trouble. Unless you are planning on having 10k a square, then you might have a problem.

[djefferis]

No federal law (aside from reporting all income derived from winnings by the player) that I am aware of.

As mentioned, must be a game of chance with no hold. High stakes is a ?, as long as no hold it technically is ok in most areas, but if your putting up a dime or better, chances are there is a hold or other illicit activity going on.

Their fun for change, seriously though who plays these big time..I always seem to get 8-8 or 2-2 something with no chance

[Fishhead]

No federal law (aside from reporting all income derived from winnings by the player) that I am aware of.

As mentioned, must be a game of chance with no hold. High stakes is a ?, as long as no hold it technically is ok in most areas, but if your putting up a dime or better, chances are there is a hold or other illicit activity going on.

Their fun for change, seriously though who plays these big time..I always seem to get 8-8 or 2-2 something with no chance

I know penny ante poker games in many states being busted..........so why would a joint(many) risk running $100 sqaures if there were even a remote chance they could be busted for it and possibly even lose their business license.

This makes me believe they are 110% legal in the ST.PETE area as long as a business follows certain guidelines.


PATRICK MCIRISH, I would love to hear you comment on this sir, you probably have the definitive answer for the TB/STPETE area..........or have the means to find out.

[djefferis]

Absolutely up to local cops for their determination of statute.

Ohio has a ton of "skill gaming parlors" popping up everywhere, suddenly cops decide this is illegal and start nailing them, oddly this was decided right after the casino vote passed, seems harrahs/Penn are funny about competition, they don't like it.

Now it's called Internet sweepstakes parlors, same concept though. Thus far they pass, but soon enough some judge will knock em down..probably the day they start one in a part of town a judge isn't afraid to go into unarmed.

Wva has a similar history, used to be completely underground poker machines. Now with PA in the casino games they license them.

Every jurisdiction is different. Don't know alot about the tampa/st Pete area. Parents winter in Lakeland and said Polk is very tight, no gambling, social clubs are limited.

[THE PROFIT]

Fish, in the backward ass village I'm from, where my parents still live, there's 1,500 people and 8 churches because even that small amount of people can't stand each others bullshit.

These goddamn churches got together & banned cakewalks at the community gatherings because it is gambling, so you make the call on how far these backward hicks will go to make sure they get to heaven

[Fishhead]

Fish, in the backward ass village I'm from, where my parents still live, there's 1,500 people and 8 churches because because even that small amount of people can't stand each others bullshit.

These goddamn churches got together & banned cakewalks at the community gatherings because it is gambling, so you make the call on how far these backward hicks will go to make sure they get to heaven

[THE PROFIT]

Just do like I do & run parlay cards out of every bar in the city & act like you don't give a fuk if its legal or not. If you act like you're supposed to be doing it cops don't bother you. If you try to hide it the cops get suspicious that you're doing something illegal & go read their Barney Fife handbook & sure enough, they find it on pg. 7

[Fishhead]

Just do like I do & run parlay cards out of every bar in the city & act like you don't give a fuk if its legal or not. If you act like you're supposed to be doing it cops don't bother you. If you try to hide it the cops get suspicious that you're doing something illegal & go read their Barney Fife handbook & sure enough, they find it on pg. 7

[Patrick McIrish]

Fish, I'm no expert on football squares, one of the few types of gambling I haven't been arrested for at one time or another. That said I don't believe there are any federal laws governing these, as long as you pay your taxes I'd strongly believe the enforcement on these things would be done locally if at all. As for their legality I think you got the main issue right, as long as there is no rake involved with the owner of the establishment giving back 100% of the profits I don't think law enforcement is going to take any action with two possible variables.


One, the time of year and what town you are in. I say this because I've lived in two smaller places and both liked to bust poker games (or other gambling related crimes) right around the time people were going to the polls. Often State Attorney/Sheriff or whatever love to parade out a few arrests for this sort of stuff right before their conservative constituents head to the voting booth. Another scenario is perhaps a Sheriff is battling budget cuts, an arrest by the vice squad might be in order to justify where some of the money is going, be aware what is going on politically in the area, especially smaller places.

Secondly, run the square fairly! Whether it be a bookie, a poker game or whatever illegal activity you are engaged in your chances of getting busted go up astronomically when someone is unhappy. Doesn't always have to be the player, often it's the wife or someone else close that is concerned their hubby is spending too much grocery money gambling. More places I've seen and/or been connected with have gotten in trouble because someone picked up a phone and called, that's your biggest danger when doing something illegal. The losers and/or their loved one's get angry and vindictive.


I think overall law enforcement is not interested in these things, they got better things to do. If nobody calls they aren't going to bother. You might ask why a bar would do one without taking a profit? A buddy does one in Spring Hill (Hernando Beach) but he claims even without a rake he makes it up in revenue. Besides the SuperBowl itself he has a big party the night they draw, everyone comes out and gets their numbers, eats, drinks and so on. If it's a small community the word spreads, a bar owner might even bring in new faces that want to put their initials in a square for a 100 to 1 shot at making some cheese.

And finally having a SuperBowl square brings in new meat for the sheet that Bruno keeps behind the bar, nice lead in to recruit more fish. As he likes to say - I use the square to bring in the squares. () Hope this helps Fisher.

[djefferis]

McIrish - Very very true...99.9% a bust can be traced to one of two people, a judge looking for re-election or a pissed off wife who found out her husband just lost his paycheck at a card game, a poker machine or betting on football.

Bar owners are in a very competitive biz, so running these squares or nascar Tips or whatever helps seperate them from the crowd. Booking can prove a highly lucrative side biz for owners/bartenders who dont make much to start with. What better way to sort out the true "squares" then seeing whose betting big on these longshot chances.

[Fishhead]

Thank McFiddle, good stuff out of your barn as always.


Let's hammer these in the area this year...........I have a plan that is small +EV concerning this venture.


Contact me,
FH

[iceminers26]

I know many places in ST. PETERSBURG, FLOIDA(BARS AND TAVARNS) have these, so they must not be breaking any laws on any level if ....... 1. THEY PAY BACK 100% TO CUSTOMERS AND HAVE NO HOUSE HOLD 2. THEY KEEP UNDER A CERTAIN MAXIMUM PER SQUARE

False

[Fishhead]

False

Ok, so they are breaking the law.