Get out now! Reduced juice books can't survive - paraphrasing Jay Cohen before jail

**SBR_John** · 01-09-06, 01:29 PM

There have been a whole lot of books try low juice that are no longer around. It is a dangerous model.

There was a push by the business minded folks to limit or do away with bonuses. In fact, I remember joining WSEX and after I sent in my money I called to get my bonus credited and there was NO bonus. Well steve forked over a whopping 10% and I was in.

**pags11** · 01-09-06, 04:32 PM

isn't Jay Cohen the guy on around the horn?...

**bigboydan** · 01-09-06, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by pags11

isn't Jay Cohen the guy on around the horn?...

no pags, your thinking jay marriotti.

**Louie Diamond** · 01-09-06, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

There have been a whole lot of books try low juice that are no longer around. It is a dangerous model.

There was a push by the business minded folks to limit or do away with bonuses. In fact, I remember joining WSEX and after I sent in my money I called to get my bonus credited and there was NO bonus. Well steve forked over a whopping 10% and I was in.

There have been a great deal of standard models that are no longer around too. Unless I'm missing something I really don't see Pinnacle having issues. Am I missing something?

**SBR_John** · 01-09-06, 06:08 PM

Lou really tests the ole long term memory.

As I recall there were a few people who decided Pinnacle's model would not work. A long time poster The Actuary who posted as sodium penathol and peep was an early critic too.

The run started. Pinnacle laughed it off and paid everyone and let it be known that they could cover every payout without excuses.

It turned out to be free marketing. Keep in mind Pinnacle was fairly obscure. They were listed on the SBR Recommended List but outside of that few had ever heard of them.

**Louie Diamond** · 01-10-06, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Lou really tests the ole long term memory.

Long term is in check. It's the short term that we need to worry about John. But slowly but surely it's making a return.

As I recall there were a few people who decided Pinnacle's model would not work. A long time poster The Actuary who posted as sodium penathol and peep was an early critic too.

Yep. Twiddle-dee Dumb and Twiddle-Dee Dumber seemed to be Jay's only supporters on the issue. But Jay used his 'celeberty status' to fool many 'less experienced' players to run the bank on his competitor. So now, according to him, I'm a nobody a never been and a never will be . Sigh. So depressing. I hope I can overcome 'our saviors' dislike of me.

The run started. Pinnacle laughed it off and paid everyone and let it be known that they could cover every payout without excuses. It turned out to be free marketing. Keep in mind Pinnacle was fairly obscure. They were listed on the SBR Recommended List but outside of that few had ever heard of them.

I remember talking with one of the higher ups there. He said, 'let them try to to break us, it will only make us stronger'. How right he was.

Jay seems to be dodging the issue. Must have really hit hme today. I guess sometimes it takes 2 doses of 'shut the fvck up'. Oh well, nobodys perfect. (is that a pun?)

JC · 01-10-06, 02:48 AM

Lou "Diamond" Hayek,

(If anyone is bothering to read this you can see Lou's real name above. Diamond is his tout name. Most touts and con men hide behind phony names. It's funny how you never see a legitimate doctor or other professional change his name in order to do business. These guys need to hide their identities.)

You are an idiot, I am not going to try and explain low juice vs. higher juice to someone who thinks there is a 20% hold in bookmaking.

Keep flapping your gums you washed up tout, you are a nobody. Keep crying to the world about your camera and the subsequent "coverup." Everytime you open your mouth it is obvious you are sick and obsessed. Get some help.

There's no such thing as a "run" on a legitimate book. Dumps like you are accustomed to are subject to runs.

You mock me for going to jail. In my mind, right or wrong, I was doing everything legally.

You on the other hand in your mind were breaking the law when you did business with GCS. At least, according to you you were, you say that's why you never sued them for your money, because the whole incident was built on an illegal act in your mind.

Once again you show your floating moral compass. When you were making money off of the deal you had no problem with this illegal business, but once you felt robbed it turned. The same way you had no problem doing business with those who had robbed old people when they were putting food on your plate, but once you have a dispute with them they are evil granny scammers.

This is all you have Lou, this is your one dimensional life. This is as good as it's going to get. You are a washed up tout. Do you miss the days of harassing people on the phone? Do you miss the days of giving out both sides of the game? Do you miss telling them about your winning record? Do you miss cold calling people in the privacy of their homes?

Go ahead, post again, see if anyone cares what you have to say. You have contributed nothing to this board or any other one over the years. You are just a broken record. "Where's my video equipment? Where's my video equipment?" Guess what Lou, it's not here. Take it to a civil court or get some help with your obsessive behavior. It's pretty obvious to anyone that your campaign hasn't/isn't helping.

Last I checked GCS seemed to be doing just fine for themselves. It's got to eat you out inside Lou, doesn't it? You hate it, they turned things around, and managed to make something of their little operation and sell it. Unlike you who has wasted all his energy chasing down this lost video camera and VCR which according to you has caused you such "hardship." HAHA, like you were a young Spielberg and you lost your camera.

Don't worry Lou, you still have your fingers and a telephone so your livelihood is safe. Keep hounding people at all hours of the day. Sell those picks and you will be ok. When you get home to the trailer at night, try not to stare at the shrine where you used to keep the VCR, it only makes the pain worse. See if you can get someone to clean up that area, maybe put something else there, you'll start to feel better.

But you won't. In two years I will check out some forum and there you will be, crying about your lost VCR and camera and all the hardship it caused you.

You are a loser by any objective standard. You're a nobody. You're not even a "Has been," you are a "Never was." Carry on with your life, it's obvious to anyone here it is miserable to be you.

**SBR_John** · 01-10-06, 06:32 AM

Note to self: Avoid arguements with JC.

**cincy_1** · 01-10-06, 11:10 AM

God, I HATE touts!!!!!

Thanks for the great post, Jay. It was very enlightening.

PS: I never thought reduced book shops would work either. In hindsight, everyone can make fun of the people who thought that, I guess - but at THAT point in time, based on what we knew, I truly believed they would be scalped and middled to death.

AK · 01-10-06, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Note to self: Avoid arguements with JC.

I would like to note for the record posting a real name on the forum is a no no

Shame on JC and Raiders

**juuso** · 01-10-06, 11:31 AM

Low juice books are the only way to go. I would never deposit money to books offering -110 on sides, unless coupled with a 50-100% bonus and low rollover.

AK · 01-10-06, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by AK

I would like to note for the record posting a real name on the forum is a no no

Shame on JC and Raiders

Include Lou Diamond on this shame list and put JC on the temporary list as he is solid.

**THE SHRINK** · 01-10-06, 01:09 PM

GREAT POST JAY...

For the record, I consider JAY to be the most honorable person in this industry, period...

THE SHRINK

**Louie Diamond** · 01-10-06, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by JC

Lou "Diamond" Hayek,

(If anyone is bothering to read this you can see Lou's real name above. Diamond is his tout name. Most touts and con men hide behind phony names. It's funny how you never see a legitimate doctor or other professional change his name in order to do business. These guys need to hide their identities.)

Nice ad hominem Jay. In fact, this whole post is ad hominem. Lots of people have nicknames. My last name was on my business license. Lou "Diamond" Haeicks' Las Vegas Sports Journal. Call up Nevada Consumer Affairs and prove me a liar.

You are an idiot, I am not going to try and explain low juice vs. higher juice to someone who thinks there is a 20% hold in bookmaking.

Where dod I say hold Jay? I said an EDGE against DEGENERATES. We haven't even gotten to the 20cent line scam yet either. Nice attempt to skate the issue. But expected when you have no answers.

There's no such thing as a "run" on a legitimate book. Dumps like you are accustomed to are subject to runs.

Terrible spin Jay. You thought Pinnacle was dump, but saw them gaining ground. You knew that if they succeeded the industry would lower juice. In the end causing you a shorter bottom line. You're a greedy pig and I exposed it. It has you chasing me calling me names with ad hominem attacks.

You mock me for going to jail. In my mind, right or wrong, I was doing everything legally.

actualy Jay, I started on you after you mocked me for standing up for what *I* believe in. I never once acknowldeged you until you mocked me. I guess you have no respect for something like that. Either that or you just think you're above everyone (JC) and believe you're the only one permitted to do so.

You on the other hand in your mind were breaking the law when you did business with GCS. At least, according to you you were, you say that's why you never sued them for your money, because the whole incident was built on an illegal act in your mind.

Once again you show your floating moral compass. When you were making money off of the deal you had no problem with this illegal business, but once you felt robbed it turned. The same way you had no problem doing business with those who had robbed old people when they were putting food on your plate, but once you have a dispute with them they are evil granny scammers.

Completely false. It's illegal to be a bookmaker. It's legal to charge an illegal bookmaker a flat fee for a LEGAL service. As far as me deal ing the Granny Scammers in the first place, it was fully explained in this thread. In fact, you comment was "well thought out and honest answer"
Feel free to be a man and apologize for that dribble anytime.

This is all you have Lou, this is your one dimensional life.

Jay, you have no clue about my life.

This is as good as it's going to get. You are a washed up tout.

I'm a person who *chose* to get out of the tout biz Jay. And if that's as good as it gets. Your writing to 1 happy mother fvcker.

Do you miss the days of harassing people on the phone?

not at all

Do you miss the days of giving out both sides of the game?

When you as good as me Jay, giving out both sides is a losing proposition.

Do you miss telling them about your winning record?

Actually, I mis reminding you about it everyday. I know how much you like to here about it.

Do you miss cold calling people in the privacy of their homes?

nope.

Go ahead, post again, see if anyone cares what you have to say. You have contributed nothing to this board or any other one over the years. You are just a broken record.

Jay, you're living in denial. I exposed you for staters. The guy that Nine.com tried to scam for 85 dimes would have gotten stiffed if it wasn't for me, as well as Clip Joint, John and Roberto. Roberto and John tried to expose it. Major and Shrink tried real hard to cover it up, Shrink only came in when Clip joint saw my post *before it got deleted* and started his own. here
Many players are successful betting baseball totals becuase of me. I could go n and on Jay. What did you do? Book and got busted. Mock others for standing up for what they believe in? Whoopieeee

"Where's my video equipment? Where's my video equipment?" Guess what Lou, it's not here.

In know that Jay. The Secret Service has it.

Take it to a civil court or get some help with your obsessive behavior. It's pretty obvious to anyone that your campaign hasn't/isn't helping.

Actually Jay, I do plan to take it to the London Stock Exchange very shortly. As for obsessive. I'm fight for what was rightfully mine in these threads. Why are you here? ...And if nobody cares, than obviously YOU are the one calling YOURSELF a nobody. Maybe you should re-read what you write.

Last I checked GCS seemed to be doing just fine for themselves. It's got to eat you out inside Lou, doesn't it? You hate it, they turned things around, and managed to make something of their little operation and sell it. Unlike you who has wasted all his energy chasing down this lost video camera and VCR which according to you has caused you such "hardship." HAHA, like you were a young Spielberg and you lost your camera.

I really don't count others money. I count mine. Mike's family had millions before we ever did biz. Remember all the grannies they scammed?

Don't worry Lou, you still have your fingers and a telephone so your livelihood is safe. Keep hounding people at all hours of the day. Sell those picks and you will be ok. When you get home to the trailer at night, try not to stare at the shrine where you used to keep the VCR, it only makes the pain worse. See if you can get someone to clean up that area, maybe put something else there, you'll start to feel better.

But you won't. In two years I will check out some forum and there you will be, crying about your lost VCR and camera and all the hardship it caused you.

You are a loser by any objective standard. You're a nobody. You're not even a "Has been," you are a "Never was." Carry on with your life, it's obvious to anyone here it is miserable to be you.

I just though I'd quote your last ad hominem attack. Just for the underdeveloped to see how your respone to reduced juice in 2005 was nothing but a name calling ad hominem attack. So much for higher education, huh Jay?

**Louie Diamond** · 01-10-06, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by THE SHRINK

GREAT POST JAY...

For the record, I consider JAY to be the most honorable person in this industry, period...

THE SHRINK

WhipeeeFvckindoooo. Many consider you to be one of the biggest frauds n the industry.

Btw Jay, thanks for spelling my name Hayek (also proper). Now every time uncle Butternuts wants to jack it to Salma he can envision me.

**SBR_John** · 01-10-06, 07:52 PM

Where is my frigging ADD medicine when I need it!

I always enjoy reading Jay and Lou.

Personally, the industry (and SBR) is extremely fortunate to have Jay posting at the different forums he frequents.

AK · 01-10-06, 08:04 PM

WhipeeeFvckindoooo. Many consider you to be one of the biggest frauds n the industry.

HAHAHA

A rich guy who also stiffed JJgold out of $400 for posting at eog, talk about a jew*(nothing wrong with jews though

) I like kenny personally but agree he should have kept his word period.

AK