1. #1
    EGrecu
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    Jake Degrom - most talented pitcher in mlb history?

    Really can't find anybody comparable when you consider he throws a 100 with elite spin, elite movement and super elite command (basically never walks anybody)


    I'd say what he's doing is even more impressive than Pedro in 1998-2001

  2. #2
    RangeFinder
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    Too early to tell. That's a big statement considering there are, m and were, many greats out there if different generations. If he can match Nolan Ryans no-hitters, then I might say yes.

  3. #3
    Otters27
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    Nolan Ryan and Stachial Paige

  4. #4
    jjgold
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    He really will never have the amount of wins many injuries started a little late

  5. #5
    EGrecu
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeFinder View Post
    Too early to tell. That's a big statement considering there are, m and were, many greats out there if different generations. If he can match Nolan Ryans no-hitters, then I might say yes.
    Nolan ryan?? Ryan walked 2800 people in 5400 innings

    Degrom has walked 296 people in 1300 innings. If you adjust for the same innings, degrom has walked less than half the people Ryan walked...with way more Ks

  6. #6
    RangeFinder
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrecu View Post
    Nolan ryan?? Ryan walked 2800 people in 5400 innings

    Degrom has walked 296 people in 1300 innings. If you adjust for the same innings, degrom has walked less than half the people Ryan walked...with way more Ks
    That may be all true, but how many wins does he have, and how many no-hitters does he have on how many teams? To be great, you have to have longevity.

  7. #7
    EGrecu
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeFinder View Post
    That may be all true, but how many wins does he have, and how many no-hitters does he have on how many teams? To be great, you have to have longevity.
    I'm talking most dominant at peak/most talented. Degrom has similar or even better velocity and stuff than Nolan Ryan with 1000x better control. I'd say degrom has Ryan stuff with Greg Maddux control.

    If you put in longevity, the whole list will be guys from 1900-1970 when they threw 500 innings a year

  8. #8
    Itsamazing777
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    Verlander

  9. #9
    EGrecu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsamazing777 View Post
    Verlander
    I don't think verlander ever touched degroms velocity or movement consistently. Jake's avg fastball this year is 99 mph, crazy

  10. #10
    stevenash
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    Jake's up there, Greg Maddux was more polished.

    In my era, my generation so to speak, Maddux and Pedro were 1 and 1a.
    Maddux, when he brought his 'A' game, which was early and often, was impossible to hit, I didn't say near impossible, but impossible.

    Maddux once threw a complete game nine inning shutout with 81 pitches in an hour and 38 minutes.

    How good was Maddux?
    He pitched 13 career nine inning shutouts using 100 pitches or less.
    (Now reread that last sentence)
    Maddux did all that while pitching in the steroid era too.

    As some of you guys know, my guy is, and always will be Mike Mussina.
    The best control pitcher I ever saw pitch was Maddux, Mussina was close.
    And if one never really paid attention to Mussina when he pitched, I don't mean just looked at, or just watched, but paid attention to Mussina, especially when he had his 'A' game going on, one really doesn't know just how good he was.

    As one advanced MLB scout once said, "When on, Mike Mussina's overhand curveball is the most devastation pitch in the game"
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  11. #11
    Itsamazing777
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrecu View Post
    I don't think verlander ever touched degroms velocity or movement consistently. Jake's avg fastball this year is 99 mph, crazy
    He hit 100 back in the day when he wanted to. He used his secondary pitches to save his arm. But degrom is a freak for sure

  12. #12
    Allure
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    Win/lose doesn't mean anything if you're on a garbage team that can't hit shit and doesn't give you run support.

  13. #13
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allure View Post
    Win/lose doesn't mean anything if you're on a garbage team that can't hit shit and doesn't give you run support.
    Saves is a meaningless stat too.
    You can give up two runs on three hits while pitching 2/3 of an inning an earn a save.
    WTF is that?
    John Franco was good at that.

    The 'hold' stat has more relevance, to come in and relieve a starter who is in a two runners on base jam, and bail him out to preserve the starters win, that's more impressive than the 'save'.

  14. #14
    Allure
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Saves is a meaningless stat too.
    You can give up two runs on three hits while pitching 2/3 of an inning an earn a save.
    WTF is that?
    John Franco was good at that.

    The 'hold' stat has more relevance, to come in and relieve a starter who is in a two runners on base jam, and bail him out to preserve the starters win, that's more impressive than the 'save'.
    True. Always baffles me when a team has been on the field for hours and one idiot comes to completely fukk everything up within seconds. I mean how does the team react in those cases?

    "Well we've been out here for a few hours, did everything to seal the W but God bless your heart you couldn't even put 3 guys away although that's the only job you have."

  15. #15
    unde0087
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    best pitcher in baseball, not even close

  16. #16
    unde0087
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    Ya he has been injury prone but when he is on the field no one touches his sack

  17. #17
    unde0087
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    Ask the Braves tomorrow night

  18. #18
    unde0087
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    When he destroys them again

  19. #19
    unde0087
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    Since his last injury, he came back with 2 more mph on his fastball. It was always 99 to 100, now 101 and you see many times 102 on the fastball. Hell his last start he threw all fastballs to the first 3 Braves and set them down. Then went to his usual back foot slider to lefties. Righties got nothing but 101 mph fastballs but placed like it was like old days Glavin. Guy is the best, no one can touch him. I never miss a start. He holds the glove high like all the greats, and you can just see it. He will mow down the greatest lineups like they nothing. He will be one of the greastest of all time.

  20. #20
    unde0087
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    Mets need him tomorrow, I guarantee he will mow the Braves down like a fukin lawn.

  21. #21
    Brock Landers
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    Bob Gibson
    Sandy Koufax
    Nolan Ryan
    Steve Carlton

    I could go on for an hour listing pitchers better than DeGrom

  22. #22
    unde0087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    Bob Gibson
    Sandy Koufax
    Nolan Ryan
    Steve Carlton

    I could go on for an hour listing pitchers better than DeGrom
    I could go on for hours how many people or family this bitch has defrauded to gamble. Keep double fisting those hotdogs you fat fuk.

  23. #23
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    Bob Gibson
    Sandy Koufax
    Nolan Ryan
    Steve Carlton

    I could go on for an hour listing pitchers better than DeGrom
    One of the most incredible stats is in 1972 Steve Carlton won 27 games for a 59 and 97 .
    Factor in Carlton's two no decisions the Phillies won, every time Carlton started the team won 29 tines, which is one less win then every pitcher on the team combined.

  24. #24
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by unde0087 View Post
    I could go on for hours how many people or family this bitch has defrauded to gamble. Keep double fisting those hotdogs you fat fuk.
    You're in rare form tonight.


  25. #25
    unde0087
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    You're in rare form tonight.

    You missed a few years pal. You should have seen Landers. And then he wants to say things about deGrom. Well I have way more to throw. I will tell you that. I am sorry but if you watched the last two starts and didn't think he is on his game you are a fukin retard at best.

  26. #26
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by unde0087 View Post
    You missed a few years pal. You should have seen Landers. And then he wants to say things about deGrom. Well I have way more to throw. I will tell you that. I am sorry but if you watched the last two starts and didn't think he is on his game you are a fukin retard at best.
    I hear what you are saying, I personally think he's a beast and clearly the best starter in the majors.
    I play yearly big boy fantasy baseball (NFBC) and deGrom is the only starter I've ever selected with my first round pick, I have a policy about drafting SP in the first round, that was my only exception.

  27. #27
    unde0087
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    I hear what you are saying, I personally think he's a beast and clearly the best starter in the majors.
    I play yearly big boy fantasy baseball (NFBC) and deGrom is the only starter I've ever selected with my first round pick, I have a policy about drafting SP in the first round, that was my only exception.
    But you can't take deGrom, because they baby him so much. If he has anything they shut him down. I get it. He looks like a pussy. But when he is on the hill he is the best pitcher in baseball. He had CY Young wrapped up last year before they shut him down. I like he had a 1.08 ERA. I can't wait for the start tomorrow because he faced that queer from the Braves last time when he had a perfect game going and he said the Mets weren't that good. Porn stach was upset because he is good but looking like a total f\*g against the best in baseball.

  28. #28
    TommieGunshot
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    Still has fewer innings pitched than Mariano Rivera.

  29. #29
    unde0087
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommieGunshot View Post
    Still has fewer innings pitched than Mariano Rivera.
    Did Rivera win his own games with a solo homerun and win 1-0 in a complete game? Did Rivera homer in a game and win 1-0 in a complete game shutout?

  30. #30
    unde0087
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    No he pitched 1 inningget the fuk out of here

  31. #31
    unde0087
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    I will come in this thread tomorrow when deGrom just owns the fuk out of the Braves. All those homerun hitters will get k after k.

  32. #32
    unde0087
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    Maybe this time they will let him finish it.

  33. #33
    USCPHILLYGUY
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    Steve Carlton. Not even close

  34. #34
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommieGunshot View Post
    Still has fewer innings pitched than Mariano Rivera.
    Mo, the greatest ever player that did what he did, that being closing out games.
    For twenty seasons Rivera got hitters out using just one pitch, the cutter.

    For twenty seasons Rivera pretty much told batters, "you know what's coming, here it is, and you still can't touch it"

    Being from the tri-state metropolitan NYC area my whole life I was fortunate enough to see his whole career.
    People forget Rivera was originally a starter/long reliever in the minor leagues.
    The Yankees called him up in 1995 as a spot starter/long reliever, to be honest Rivera was not a very good starter, my guess the reason being his arsenal was limited.

    Not for nothing, according to Fan Graphs they and MLB baseball didn't start keeping metrics on pitch types until 2007, since than Mo used the cutter 93 percent of the time an average velocity of 92 mph.

    John Wetteland was closing games for the Yankees in 1995 and 1996.
    Wetteland was closing out games for the Expo's, that 1994 Montreal team had a stacked pitching staff, if the strike didn't short circuit the season the Expos more than likely win the World Series, Montreal was 74-40, would have won about 106 games, Wetteland was on his way to a near 50 save season, Pedro would have probably won twenty games.

    You know who the Yankees traded to Montreal for John Wetteland?
    Fernando Sergulgnol, yeah, that Fernando Sergulnol.
    How'd that trade work out for the Expos?
    In their behalf, they didn't have the resources to sign Pedro and Wetteland, Expos has to get whatever they could for both pitchers.




    Strike was settled, Yankees in 1995 bullpen was Steve Howe and Bob Wickman setting up John Wettleland who was the exclusive closer.
    Rivera was the long man, then Jimmy Key went down for the season, Rivera stepped in the starting rotation, and pretty much got lit up starting games.
    Yanks lost to Seattle in the ALDS to that stacked Mariners team (who never shouldn't have lost to the Indians, but that's another story for another day)

    Yanks won it all in 1996, they had given up on Rivera as a starter, liked him as a reliever, was setting up Wettleland while winning the World Series after the Braves gagged on a 2-0 games lead.

    After that, Wetteland signed for mega bucks with Texas in 1997, Rivera and his cutter found their niche, Yanks weren't going to sign Wetteland for all that money anyways, Rivera was primed for the closer role, and the rest as they say is history.

  35. #35
    USCPHILLYGUY
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    Odds that Unde has a deGrom poster in his bedroom ceiling

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