Cascade and Del Mar

JoshW · 09-21-07, 09:43 AM

If I remember right Cascade kept paying after Del Mar pulled out. It was only a month or two later when Cascade started not paying. Is that how other remember it?

paul Mordeeb · 09-21-07, 09:46 AM

When did this guy pull out? Was it anounced here?

Scorpion · 09-21-07, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by jason

SBR John -
I have a five figure balance with Cascade and like everyone else has not gotten paid. Here's my issue, though:

Why is Del Mar not responsible for the debts of players that had accumulated when Del Mar was backing Cascade. I mean the whole point was that Cascade got players because of their A rating, and they got an A rating presumably in part because they were financially secure.

Their financial backer can back out - but should be responsible for the balances of players who were with Cascade at the time Del Mar backed out. We wouldn't have been in there in the first place had it not been for that backer and their consequent rating.

I think we need to put the pressure on Del Mar to bail out Cascade players who played with Cascade during Del Mar's time. Otherwise, any financial backer can just profit off of players, then withdraw, and lose nothing. Simply not fair.

I agree, the only reason I sent funds and played at cascade was because of Del Mars great reputation!

bigboydan · 09-21-07, 01:06 PM

Delmar withdrew their financial and operational backing in January 2007. Then the agents were having trouble with Lenny too. If Lenny's partner didn't retire we not have seen this situation snowball into the scandal we have right now.

paul Mordeeb · 09-21-07, 01:13 PM

As lakefan was pointing out. If Cascade was still paying for a time after he left, then this Del Mar guy really can't be held responsible.

But if Del Mar got bought out then Cascade instantly turned to a no pay Book......Then I think Del Mar should pony up!!!

I left a Ticket broker Company about 4 years ago, announced I was leaving, Company went under a year later. I accually covered two debts that existed the day I left.

If you continued playing after knowing he was gone, your stuck. But if you tried to cashout the day he left but couldn't, I feel this Del mar guy should hold some responsabilty!!!

aggie · 09-21-07, 01:51 PM

this issue has been on my mind for two months and was about to start a topic about it.

my case is similar, i only played there because of their financial backing.what's more important i took a sabatical in november and returned to betting in april. (this can be verified.) at no point i received any kind of warning that a huge partner was backing out and what implications this may bring. i wasn't given a choice of pulling my funds out. my balance there is still the same as when del mar was in charge!

i put up money essentially with del mar and it ended up with stiff < edit name > steeling it all.

this is unacceptable!

aggie · 09-21-07, 01:55 PM

for everyones concern i suggest to take a look at 777rock and their backing of dimebetting. one day they just said they are no longer partners. they still said they will honor the balances up to that day (i just want the same from del mar as i have exact same balance at the time they pulled out). players were furious anyway and at the end of the day they agreed to take full responsibility

Wheell · 09-21-07, 04:04 PM

Lay off Del Mar, it was plenty public that they were backing off. I lost low five figures in Cascade but I don't blame Del Mar. Blame Lenny for not paying 50 to 60 cents on the dollar and closing shop.

RonPaul2008 · 09-22-07, 02:05 AM

Del Mar should be held responsible. Whatever legal maneuvers taken should include Del Mar. Just because Cascade paid for no more than 2 months doesn't absolve them of anything. If anything it should lead people to suspect that Cascade never had the ability to pay everyone once Del Mar pulled out. That's pure theft by Del Mar in my book. For all we know Del Mar and "Lenny" et all schemed this together. Why aren't these people arrested? This scam is still going on.

SBR_John · 09-22-07, 05:08 AM

Sorry guys, Del Mar is not responsible. In hindsight we were all scammed by Lenny who painted a false picture of great stability. Its looking more and more like a scam with malice. But its a good idea to contact them and see what suggestions they may have. I will work on that. Good idea.

pokerking · 09-22-07, 06:53 PM

I talked with Del-Mar in November after Lenny stole my money. They just completely distanced themselves from Lenny and wanted nothing to do with it. They said work it out with stiff Lenny!

aggie · 09-22-07, 07:18 PM

in november??? looks like del mar are the stiffs after all, as at that time they were apparently fully backing cascade!

something needs to be done here...

again, take a look at 777rock and dimebetting

here it is:

TOW

Further to the merger of 777rock (r. 10) with Delmar, Dimebetting (r. 3) is no longer backed by 777rock. All existing players liabilities up to 11/7 will be honored by 777rock should Dimebetting default. As of 11/8 Dimebetting is a stand alone operation with unknown financial backers, if any. Players are strongly recommended to tread with caution at this time.

halifax

All this "vouching stuff cracks me up ...

... so someone with money at DimeBetting goes to bed last night thinking 777Rock is "vouching" for their post-up dollars ... they wake up this morning and find out that they're Shit Outta Luck ... not sure that that can be called "vouching" for someone ... if they were really "vouching" for DimeBetting, they would have made an announcement and said to the DimeBetting players that they had X days until they stopped "vouching" for DimeBetting ... that would give the players a chance to pull their money out if they wanted to, or continue playing there without the backing of 777Rock ... of course, that would also cause a run on the bank, but that's beside the point.

again halifax

That's yesterday. Players only found out about the situation today. Looks like it's a bit too late, unless they go down to their basement and dust off their Time Machine.

it ended up that all liabilities were covered, which is understandable.

as i said earlier, i'm in exact situation, with one difference -- my sleep lasted about 5 months. but i did occasionally check here, there was no such a thing as quoted here

I WAS NOT INFORMED DEL MAR QUIT AND OFFERED ANYTHING, EVEN MY BALANCE COVERED A MONTH BEFORE BREAKDOWN.

this is obvious case here. del mar backed my money, where are they now???

jason · 09-22-07, 08:35 PM

The Facts

The facts are as follows:
Your average Joe who was playing at Cascade based on their rating and/or Del Mar's backing did NOT have the opportunity to withdraw before Del Mar disappeared and Cascade went into no-pay mode.

I am proof positive. I started withdrawing pretty much when I heard about Del Mar' decision to leave, and I only got a little out, but wasn't able to get a large portion which still remains.

If Del Mar wants to maintain a reputation, they need to step in for players like this, who played with THEM - their place - until THEY decided to leave. These players (at a minimum) should be taken care of.

SBR - can you initiate talks with Del Mar?

RonPaul2008 · 09-22-07, 10:28 PM

Exactly.

Originally posted by jason

The facts are as follows:
Your average Joe who was playing at Cascade based on their rating and/or Del Mar's backing did NOT have the opportunity to withdraw before Del Mar disappeared and Cascade went into no-pay mode.

I am proof positive. I started withdrawing pretty much when I heard about Del Mar' decision to leave, and I only got a little out, but wasn't able to get a large portion which still remains.

If Del Mar wants to maintain a reputation, they need to step in for players like this, who played with THEM - their place - until THEY decided to leave. These players (at a minimum) should be taken care of.

SBR - can you initiate talks with Del Mar?

magnavox · 09-22-07, 11:07 PM

Now, this is getting really interesting.

I had money with Dimebetting when the aforementioned news broke. If I'm not mistaken, it took days, if not hours to calm the players down and assure them, that 777 will stan behind them. As was the common knowledge then -- Dimebetting was backed by 777, period.

It was official that Del Mar fully backed Cascade up to a certain point. That point is critical here, because it needs to be treated as a bond for balances held at Cascade at that time. Every player should feel as strong for amounts held on this date, as strong Del Mar's reputation is.

Imagine, for one thing, if today Spiro would announce that he no longer backs Bet Jamaica. The outfit is now operated by unknown group led by Scotty. Player's balances are now their own concern. The thought itself is just laughable. Be it if there was no date of this cut-off announced, or anything similar to a one day notice.

In this particular scenario there wasn't even nothing of that sort. There is never too late for Del Mar to announce a time frame during which players can safely request their balances if they feel unsecure under Lenny's management.

vsdspread · 09-22-07, 11:56 PM

What was the web address for Del Mar?

TOW · 09-23-07, 01:24 AM

aggie,

The situation of dimebetting is different from the one of Cascade.

Some seasoned posters like Halifax may recall the chain of events of Dimebetting.

DB became insolvent a first time and was later bailed out by Scott of 777rock who injected some 80K to pay past liabilities.

Under his watch and risk management DB managed to make some money. The guy of DB, John Vega was his alias if I'm not mistaken, refused to pay back 777rock. That's when Scott pulled his backing.

However Scott was a very honorable individual and he agreed to remain liable for all DB balances up until the cut off date.

Cascade was in slow pay mode when Del Mar stepped to the plate. Some seasoned posters may recall this, it was the summer of 2005. Couple of weeks before Grande had withdrawn its backing after having re-financed Cascade for 3 times over a 2 years period.

The substantial difference is that Del Mar never formally announced bailing Cascade out nor they ever officially stated they would back indefinitely nor they ever formally announced pulling out.

The pattern is more or less what had been seen before with Grande. It was in Lenny's best interest not to reveal he had lost his financial backer while he was still looking for a replacement.

As per the "average Joe" scenario: the average Joe barely knows where Costa Rica is (I recall a survey in which 80% of pollers thought Costa Rica was an island) let alone he's ever heard of Del Mar, a very reputable operation known to seasoned players and credit players but certainly not to the masses.

It would be great to see Del Mar step to the plate but I hardly see them doing it under some sort of "obligation".

aggie · 09-23-07, 08:18 AM

TOW, thank you very much for your detailed response.

it looks like the players here would be right and del mar should pay if not for one thing and that is it now turns out del mar was not officially backing them. i as many others were convienced by SBR reports this was not the case. and it is hard to believe del mar itself did not follow industry news. if they had half the dignity of 777rock (an operation in existance only months) they would make a statement denying it all

aggie · 09-23-07, 08:25 AM

it can't be said they weren't officially backed, i now came accross a poster stating players could login to cascade and del mar with same login

jason · 09-23-07, 05:08 PM

Del Mar Needs to Step In

To make the scenarios even more similar, we can use me as an example again.

I did not play with Cascade back when Del Mar helped take them out of slow-pay mode. I started playing afterward (2006). They were as good as it gets in terms of (1) backer and (2) rating.

As soon as they lost either - I started withdrawing. I - and players like me - have to be able to get out balances. Del Mar made the money off of me for 1 year while I played and they were there - they need to look at players' balances when they officially pulled out, and bail them out. I know Del Mar has an impeccable reputation - so please step up here and bail out YOUR players.

Zeroed · 09-23-07, 05:41 PM

Well what i learn from this is, never trust a rating because it is backed by a reputable book. BetOnline anyone?

magnavox · 09-23-07, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Zeroed

Well what i learn from this is, never trust a rating because it is backed by a reputable book. BetOnline anyone?

How about Bet Jamaica?

Or PIG...

ritehook · 09-23-07, 06:33 PM

Reality: there is NEVER going to be total stability re offshore books. Maybe in 1st world nations, but surely not in those located in the 3rd world.

Sure, there are good and solid books in CR. But every Cascade that comes downthe pike damges the rep and cred of even the good, solid books.

Because things change, and if the infrastructure is not there to enforce "transparency" and legal obligations - and in CR and other banana replublics it is NOT - there will never be anything much more than than The Devil Take the Hindmost, The Wild Wild West, whatever you want to call it.

Sure, in the First World US we've had Enron and other fraudsters (and it will get worse as we too become a Third World land, a Cheeseburger Republic) but the preventive and remedial structures that are still in place here would have folks like the notorious "Lenny" in jail by now.

But he'll fly free in CR as long as he has the bucks to pay off the political chingones.

MORAL: Don't put any kind of money in an offshore book that would cause you to gag and vomit if you lose it.

No Better · 09-23-07, 06:38 PM

Them hilbillies at DelMar have to be laughing their asses off if they have read this thread. You think they give a fuk about what a bunch of losers here think they should do? Too funny. When they bailed on Lenny, they made him whole. Every penny that you losers are looking to get from the hilbillies was paid to Lenny, and he blew it all. Every Penny. DelMar has already honored the obligation you are now looking to them for.

Sorry Charlie.

homedog · 09-23-07, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by No Better

Them hilbillies at DelMar have to be laughing their asses off if they have read this thread. You think they give a fuk about what a bunch of losers here think they should do? Too funny. When they bailed on Lenny, they made him whole. Every penny that you losers are looking to get from the hilbillies was paid to Lenny, and he blew it all. Every Penny. DelMar has already honored the obligation you are now looking to them for.

Sorry Charlie.

Do you have any proof of this?

magnavox · 09-23-07, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by No Better

Every penny that you losers are looking to get from the hilbillies was paid to Lenny, and he blew it all. Every Penny. DelMar has already honored the obligation you are now looking to them for.

John Vega of Dimebetting did exactly the same thing. He blew it all. Yet, 777 stood behind their word.

magnavox · 09-23-07, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by homedog

Do you have any proof of this?

If I decide to request a large amount of money from my bank account through a local branch and the cash is delivered, then it shouldn't matter if one single employee at that branch steels it before I even get to see it. Would the CEO's just laugh their asses off?

ritehook · 09-23-07, 07:09 PM

Just amazing that folks continue to apply First world standards and logic to Third World countries.

Whole different ball game, guys. Go to live in CR, or any other land on the wrong side of the First World fence, and you'll have your eyes rudely and immediately opened.

When you send your money to a biz in the 3rd World, and in particular a friggin' bookmaker, for crissake, you have already made a huge gamble. And some of you will lose. I did with BetOnSports, but not that much to fail the Gag test.

You ain't in Kansas anymore, Toto.

JELLYBEAN · 09-23-07, 08:35 PM

First off......You have a better chance of good old Charlie from Aces paying guys back then gettting money out of Delmar( they are honorable as they come..but they took care of all there obligations with lenny when they left)

Secondly....These last 2 weeks cascade should be making money with what ever business they have. Obivously he has no intention of paying any of you or he would have started making good faith payments already.

And lastly......lenny is a bad gambler..he blew all your money betting..always gets in trouble this way...cried wolf one too many times and now he has no one who can trust him enough to come to his rescue...and that's all folks.

magnavox · 09-23-07, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by JELLYBEAN

First off......You have a better chance of good old Charlie from Aces paying guys back then gettting money out of Delmar( they are honorable as they come..but they took care of all there obligations with lenny when they left)

That would be true, only if it was a secret agreement of some sort between Lenny and Del Mar. But it wasn't. It was official, that they were backing them financially and SBR invited players to join Cascade citing just that. The local branch example from above fits here perfectly.

marc · 09-24-07, 10:06 AM

Unfortunately, this is another classic example of how worthless it is to the players when books claim to have reputable backers behind them. In the offshore world, it seems as though being a financial backer means the following. "You can use my name in exchange for a percentage of the profit, but if the book loses money, I'm gone.)

Del Mar seems to have done it with Cascade. When betmain first came out, they were supposeddly being backed by Skybook. But once Maina started losing, skybook disappeared. How many people played with betonusa because they were under the Jazette umbrella, and are now screwed becuase BetonUSa moved over to futurebet. If betJM were to take a big hit, it wouldn't suprise me if SPiro withdrew his backing

Zeroed · 09-24-07, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by magnavox

How about Bet Jamaica?

Or PIG...

Heh

Well that would be different, i consider Jamaica an excellent book (not so much for Pros, but that´s not what matters here), with or without the Greek. Early lines but $300 limits, this f.e. shows they know what they want and what they are doing.

Similiar with the Pig, $500 limits and 16c MLs - those are books that don´t take big risks.